Pastor Ted Haggard Is My Pastor ~ New Life or Crucified?

[StormyGale]

My heart is broken by the ousting of My Pastor-Who is My Pastor, and will always be My Pastor. Are they going to find a sinless man to take his place? The only sinless one that ever walked this planet was Jesus! A person chooses to attend a church because of the Anointing of The Man of God. Ted Haggard Is and Was the Man Appointed by God For Times Such as This.

When I inherit my millions-and I will very soon, I will create a church for all that have been cast out and despised by people like those that ousted this Godly Man and sooooo many like him! How dare anyone tell me or our church body-that is from the outside, that we have to get rid of our loved, and yes trusted Pastor! I don't care what he alleged did, that is between him and God! In our day and age, where are the Men of God that are equal to the Moses' and the Abrahams of old? Ted Haggard is God's Anointed for this day and age. All those scoffers can laugh now, but God says in His Word-Not to Touch His Anointed! He also warns that once He begins His work in the Body, WHOA! to those that scoff, mock, and scorn-because their punishment will be far greater!

Until Pastor Haggard and Gayle re-surface, I will no longer unite with any church nor trust any pastor-after all they are just sinners. What message did they send out to the world-"be careful, for if we find out your sins, we will throw you out!?"!? Did the media and the scoffers not have an agenda in all their stone throwing? Hence... an election or the fact that gays are militantly taking over the minds of the world-sending a message that we will destroy you, and use their sinful acts to cram down the throat of anyone that stands firm in the Word of God? Scoff all you want! You're lies and agendas are going to be the very thing that will crawl up and destroy them! Oh and get this info, I was gay for over thirty years, how come God totally changed me and opened up my eyes and made me more woman than most? I am proud of my outcome! I know first hand-the truth about the not so gay world! I know their agendas, and their lies and the way they overpower, and call it civil rights. Hah, they are WOLVES... waiting to devour your young! Tell me where I fit into their march-I certainly prove that you are not born gay. Oh, even if gay was ok-get this-sex out of marriage is sin-called fornication!

A friend of mine slit her throat after Stockstill advised her husband to stone her. She is mute to this day. They allowed Larry Stockstill to turn Pastor Ted into the walking wounded! Stockstill recommended that my husband and several others take their wives and their unborn babies to the edge of the city and stone them to death 15 years ago! Pastor Ted was accused, judged, and killed spiritually all in three days-go figure, even Manson, Saddam, and evil killers get a fair trial and it's not done in public drama. The true members that have spent blood, sweat, and tears, never had a say as to whether we wanted to keep "our" Pastor or not. Lord help us all, who on earth is without sin? This was never about homosexually or Pastor Ted's so-called sins, these legalistics would even judge God for getting Mary pregnant out of marriage. Stockstill is involved in the KKK, and has the right to stand as judge? Stockstill wants Pastor Ted Haggard removed because he is jealous of anyone that is greater than himself! Be careful not to attend Bethany in Baton Rouge if you are even considering telling them you have sin in your lives!

That same man that gave you the guidance to destroy my Pastor and and his innocent family told my husband 15yrs ago to take me and my unborn child to the edge of the city and stone us! God didn't call us to be namby-pamby Christians! He called us to Stand UP for Righoutness! He called us to Restore the Brethren! How dare you represent Me! I am a member of New Life Church and part of this Body! When will it stop? When will the TRUE BODY OF CHRIST STAND UP and REPENT and LOVE ONE ANOTHER?

When Clinton committed acts of immorality in the White House many rallied around him and restored him to office. Do you mean to tell me that pagans can restore their own but Christians will throw their own to the lions to be killed? What message have you sent out about Christians to all the world? The fear as to whether or not the rich would leave a building and leave many of them with the bills is more like it!

If I could rewind my life, I would have sacrificed myself and remained silent! To lose my family was a price that cost too much to bear! I would suffer all over again for what Christ Jesus is all about and that is Family! and Love! You have allowed a reprobate to KILL! What have you all done, but create thousands of walking wounded!? "Your sin" now reaches far beyond the sin of Pastor Ted's. If I stand alone, I will Stand and hold my Pastor's arms up!

I am living PROOF that God did not make a mistake and that You are Not BORN GAY! There is nothing about a gay lifestyle that is Gay! It is a road that is leading thousands to a one way ticket to Hell! There is redemption through the blood of the cross via Jesus Christ, and none other! How dare you represent the Body of Christ or Jesus Christ as you sit in judgment to anyone! Whoa to those pious hypocrites that made this decision! Whoa to the press that contributed to the 2006 CRUCIFIXION of JESUS CHRIST all over again through one of the greatest men that has ever lived! King David would have been killed by each of you, and Jesus would have never come into this world if we would have allowed the Larry Stockstill's of this earth to decide! King David committed murder and adultery!

Pastor Ted whom you accused of being a drug addict and a pervert! It is Pastor Ted that is the only one that has laid his life down here! For the sake of your legalistic BS-you wounded thousands! Whoa to you when God turns towards YOU to JUDGE YOU!

All Christians are not represented by Larry Stockstill! He is a wolf in sheeps clothing!

I am a member of New Life Church. My husband, fifteen year old son, and I were displaced and uprooted as we recently suffered through hurricanes Ivan, Cindy, and Dennis. As hurricane Katrina raced towards the Gulf, we had no choice but to cut our losses and run! It appeared to us as if God had clearly led us to settle in Colorado Springs. No, the government did not give us one $ for any damages nor for any move. It took every penny to get the truck to move what furniture and belongings we salvaged, pay for gas, food, and motels ... plus it paid for a few months rent and down payment for a place to live when we arrived in Co.

My husband had always been an Executive or Manager, plus he was the Mayor of his hometown. His daddy had been Mayor for over 20 years there as well. We left a six figure income to start over as New Life offered my husband a job-as a janitor. The Bible says to pay a man worth his hire. I guess 6-figure to 9.50 an hour seems right to those still running New Life.
We arrived in the Springs where there are no corporate jobs. Whenever my husband applied anywhere that claimed to be hiring, they would tell him that he was way too over qualified to hire or that they didn't think he would stay-after being a Mayor. We were fish out of water and had already run out of money. I told him that I should make him a new resume that basically said that he had no college, no experience, and was a blooming idiot-just so he could find work. Yes, the day came-we had to apply for foodstamps! We still have to send our son off to school without being able to pay for his lunch. I ache knowing my husband sells his blood two times a week just to barely make it. Many a person had shared with me that they went to church out of appearance sake, or because someone made them go, or because it was a tradition, or because it was a good place to gather-because they could meet customers for their business, and so one and so on. I was shocked that not too many people that professed to be Real Christians even had a clue of what that really meant. A lot of them thought I was crazy whenever I'd share that I actually had a personal relationship with a real forgiving and living Savior.

[yeshua'smags]

Oh Stormygale, I am so sorry for all of your pain! I cannot imagine what you all must be going through, and my heart breaks for you and your pastor and his wife and family.

And you are exactly right, there is not a sinless man to replace him. Sometimes "messes" are cleaned in such a way that is so damaging to those closest to it, just so it looks good to the rest of the world. It is a sucky way to take care of something this fragile and precious.

Please keep talking to us, maybe we can hold your hand through some of it....

[ex-shep]

[Some members may find the response troubling. Feel free to skip post completely or come back to it later. This is not censorship or telling one what to read. Rather it is a caution for some who have been in abusive church situations and may find the response troubling]


I see your love for your pastor. It is a tragedy for all of us. I have been privately sharing with a member whose church went through a similar crisis. I have lost friend to a church rocked with similar scandal. I am sorry to hear of what you are going through. My thoughts and prayers with anyone whose leader has fallen. Some of the reactions run the whole gamut. Some are in shock. Some are in denial. Some are angry. Some may understandably defend their leader.

This is just one poster's opinion. Personally I feel Brother Haggard did the write thing by stepping down. I tend to believe the Bible as the authoritative word of God. I can see where Paul had a point in his letter to Titus:

5The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint[a] elders in every town, as I directed you. 6An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7Since an overseer[b] is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. 9He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. [Titus 1.5-9, NIV, emphasis mine]

Scriptures admonish that leadership is held to a higher standard. One would be doing Brother Haggard a disservice if he did not get help for his drug and apparent sex addiction. If one covered up for his behaviors, he would be doing a church a bigger disservice. Billy Sunday had a sermon entitled "Be sure your sin will find you out". The premise if one does not come clean with God, his sins would gang up on him. Sadly this appears to be the case. There is the admonishment to have nothing to do with the works of evil, but expose them. Scriptures further admonish to flee sexual immorality. Pastors are not exempt. I wish it were not so, but I do want to be in denial either.

I mentioned in a previous post that Church at the Crossroads: History of First United Methodist Church, Dallas is a must read. In the mid Nineties their pastor attempted to murder his wife. It had the makings of the OJ Simpson trial in how it turned out. What is admirable is the fact that both local church and the United Methodist Church immediately dealt with it. All pastorate, laity, staff, and members were involved. Crisis counselors were brought in. Prayer teams were set up. Support groups were available for anyone who wanted it. Everyone was allowed to express his/her emotions without retribution. Today some are sad, some are angry, some are confused. Most have moved on. It was a hard day when the Dallas News did a front page article in the Sunday paper. I was there that day. We talked about it. I was not a member back then, so I just listened and observed. Some were still hurt. Some were enraged. John Fiedler, senior minister is quite open about the incident, "We never swept it under the carpet. We dealt with it".

I am in a church which has had its share of black eyes. Twenty years later a group us want to get it right. There is an internet forum. Some can't understand what the problem is. Their faith was never stronger. There are others who have scratched their heads and lived with it. There are others who have been bashed up. We respect each other; support each other, as try to figure out why-- leaving the rest to the Lord.

If one read each psalm and the book of Job, the reader is going to experience the whole gamut of emotions. I believe it was left in there for a reason. Some members are in shock, some hurt, some angry, some embittered. The best the church can do is left each member process his/her feeling without retribution. Jesus never said, "But brother you should not feel that way". He had compassion. We certainly do on the forum. We are not a theological debating society. Many of us are too bashed up for it. But what we do is reach out to the broken hearted. I can see where you are coming from.

Thanks for the share. I really mean it. I can see where you are coming from. Also if a member comes angry, hurt, embittered, or feeling like everything he invested in felt like a deck of cards, we are ready to wrap our arms around that member. Feel free to check the links off the forum for perspective on where we are coming from. Take what you like and leave the rest. My thoughts are prayers are with you as the church heals. It is a long process; but I wish nothing but the best of recovery.

[Voyager]

Until Pastor Haggard and Gayle re-surface, I will no longer unite with any church nor trust any pastor-after all they are just sinners.
Many of us here can relate with this statement Gale. I used to feel this way about my former pastor. However, I learned the hard way that we should never, ever allow our hearts to become this devoted to a man or woman. When they fall - and many of them do - many times we find that our hearts were devoted more to a man than they were to God.

Pastor Ted whom you accused of being a drug addict and a pervert! It is Pastor Ted that is the only one that has laid his life down here! For the sake of your legalistic BS-you wounded thousands! Whoa to you when God turns towards YOU to JUDGE YOU!
I watched the news coverage of all of this Gale, and it was Ted Haggard himself that admitted to having a drug problem and a gay affair on the national news. I don't think anyone was falsely accusing him. Could you perhaps be in denial about his actions? If so, I completely understand. There was a day when I defended my former pastor just as vehemently as you are doing here - even when I was presented with sound evidence of corruption. I think many times we allow ourselves to raise someone up in our heart as an idol, and we invest so much of ourselves into them that we won't let ourselves believe any wrong about them - even when they are caught red-handed.

If I could rewind my life, I would have sacrificed myself and remained silent! To lose my family was a price that cost too much to bear! I would suffer all over again for what Christ Jesus is all about and that is Family! and Love!
I can relate Gale. I lost over 450 members of my church "family" when I left there. These people were like brothers and sisters to me for 12 longs years. They were like aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents to our children. When we left the church we became outcasts. Not only did we lose our "family", but they were actually turned against us. I sense a lot of anger in your post, and I can understand it. I was very angry over the losses that we suffered. It has taken me years to recover from what happened, and even now I find that I still have wounds that are not yet healed.

You have obviously been wounded by the horrific losses you have suffered. Now here you have another loss to deal with, and it probably seems unbearable to you. I wish I could give you a magic formula to make your pain and anger go away, but there is none. Sticking around here has helped me a lot. The people here have all been through different experiences, and we help each other recover from our losses.

Peace to you and your family.

:cool:

[Willow]

Dear Gale,

I also was part of the same family of churches. Ted Haggard was one of my former pastor's pastors... so was Larry Stockstill. It really upset me when the brown stuff hit the oscillator about his moral failure. However... upon thinking hard about the matter, I recognized the failure of the church leadership to Bro. Ted. He needed someone to go to for help. There apparently was no one he could be honest with on a long term, consistent basis. From what I gathered... he just reached the end of being able to talk openly and clammed up. That's normally when things begin to come out sideways.... when they are stuffed. And yes... pastors need to be human and be recognized as merely human. Ted Haggard was a nice man every time I talked to him. I feel badly that this happened to him, however... I also think in ministries that size... the pressure on one man is enormous and I can't imagine it being healthy for him or his family... or for the church for that matter.

[SpinningHead]

(((((Gale))))))

What a mess. :(

[hornblower]

I am feeling lost.................

[ex-shep]

Dear Gale,

From what I gathered... he just reached the end of being able to talk openly and clammed up. That's normally when things begin to come out sideways.... when they are stuffed. And yes... pastors need to be human and be recognized as merely human. Ted Haggard was a nice man every time I talked to him. I feel badly that this happened to him, however... I also think in ministries that size... the pressure on one man is enormous and I can't imagine it being healthy for him or his family... or for the church for that matter.


We do have a safety at church here. The pastor is in a small group of regular church members. He is open about his failings. It sounds to me as if there were a lack of accountabilty systems

[Voyager]

It looks like Gale has been through quite a bit in her life based on this article on her website:

http://www.writers-pen.com/document.php?id=627

((((((((((Gale))))))))))

:(

[beginagainrose]

Oh, Precious Sister "Stormy"... my heart aches along with your pain revealed in your words... much like Martha's cry to Jesus, "LORD!... If you would of been here, my brother would not...(be gone!)" I so just want to acknowledge your excruciating heartcry and sorrow... I attended New Life for about 1 year. Please understand that not all here "bashed" Pastor Ted...and please understand we are all people in pain as well at various levels of grief and healing ourselves. You are soooooooooo welcome here and I am beyond delighted to "meet" someone from New Life that I have been praying for since this crisis broke in the news. I loved Pastor Ted. Those around him.... well, that story should be for another time. Until the Lord quiets the storm at New Life, dear sister, may He speak "Peace" to the storm in you... and grace, sus-staining grace, until then. I wept over this and weep with you even now...and will continue to pray.:( Please remember that our brother, Ted, though he has been crucified... has a resurrection coming...and it WILL be for God's greater glory....Selah.

[Reg]

Dear Dear (((((((((((Stormy Gale)))))))))),

You poor dear. What a story. I thought I had been through it. But not quite like you. What a golden attitude you have after having suffered so much at the hands of those who were supposed to care for and love you. What a valuable resource you are here to help us to also have bowels of love and mercy as you have. Please realize that is very difficult for some of us to forgive those we have been abused by. Perhaps you can help us in this area.

We all have a heart for those who have been affected by this. Some of us because of our deep hurt have a hard time processing this because it brings the pain back. All of us have been hurt deeply by those who supposedly represented Christ. Much to our sorrow we found out they were imposters.

Here are a couple of posts that refect how I/we feel about those who were hurt by this.

From the Pray for the newly shocked parishners
Ted Haggard is the Pastor of a 14000 member church and he has admitted to buying methamphetamine from a gay prostitute... See CNN.
Just thinking about how many families are effected by this breaks my heart.

It may only be the beginning. I walked into church for a meeting with the question of what happens if former members enter the forum. Of they will be welcomed with open arms. I was wondering about the potential for fallout by former member or those affected by this and similar. No doubt we are ready should the occassion arise.
Very prophetic ex-shep. ;)

[ex-shep]

Dear Dear (((((((((((Stormy Gale)))))))))),

You poor dear. What a story. I thought I had been through it. But not quite like you. What a golden attitude you have after having suffered so much at the hands of those who were supposed to care for and love you. What a valuable resource you are here to help us to also have bowels of love and mercy as you have. Please realize that is very difficult for some of us to forgive those we have been abused by. Perhaps you can help us in this area.

We all have a heart for those who have been affected by this. Some of us because of our deep hurt have a hard time processing this because it brings the pain back. All of us have been hurt deeply by those who supposedly represented Christ. Much to our sorrow we found out they were imposters.

Here are a couple of posts that refect how I/we feel about those who were hurt by this.

From the Pray for the newly shocked parishners



Very prophetic ex-shep. ;)


I dare you are right. I completely forgot I penned that post. Very interesting.

[Carmen]

Hi StormyGale, I answered your post in my blog, so won't re-post that here.

I agree with ex-shep, "Some of the reactions run the whole gamut. Some are in shock. Some are in denial. Some are angry. Some may understandably defend their leader."

I hope that you can find recovery and peace. Even though I have not suffered as badly as you have, I have been through denial too. It isn't easy if dreams have been shattered, I know that it hurts a lot. I have been able to make some progress working through things here, the forum is open to anyone that needs it. :)

[StormyGale]

I have read each and every word from everyone that posted a reply to my agony. I want to say Thank You for all your love, kindness, advice, help, and knowledge ... I had no idea that anyone would bother to care! I have not been able to make it through a day yet without pain in my heart as if the same pain one feels as loved ones die.

Please forgive me if I have offended anyone with my letter. Some did misunderstand what I was trying to say, but most did not. I have not placed Pastor Ted as an idol, he is and always will be my Pastor. i do not care what his sins supposedly are.

I know that we had the FBI come into this and I saw them at Pastor Ted's home with the Press as well. I spent 7 years in the US Navy myself. I KNOW what the government will do when they want something to hush up and disappear.

I do not believe Pastor Ted did not have FORCE by those men in black to shut this up and to admit anything in fear that they would harm him or his family. I can tell you too much about what I know of how they operate... I too tried to expose sexual abuse in the US Navy only to have them drug me ... lock me up ... and tell me they would chop off my legs if I did not drop my complaints to the Congress. So I know ... unless Pastor Ted tells me himself, I do not believe any of the con game the Press and the Pervert played out with the media and FBI.

There is more here than outsiders know of. Gayle and Ted are like blood family to me. My dad was a Pastor too. He raped his daughter! He beat his wife! He cut her and himself with razor blades! He beat his kids! ... I have forgiven him! He will answer to God alone!

I know that I have never heard the Word of God come out of a human being as anointed as it was delivered from Pastor Ted Haggard. Now I do not get to hear that anointed Word again because the world is always faster to believe Pagans that accuse Christians and point fingers. Why isn't this Accuser in jail? If all is true, then he is an admitted DRUG DEALER! Where has the outcry about this fact gone? No the world is always fast to destroy the Christian only. They hate us because we believe in the One True and Living God. That's been going on for 200 years.
If I do not believe in something, I do not give it the time of day.

Thanks for all your prayers!

The ultimate here in both my messages is and will always be one of the ultimate: "True Forgiveness".

My 15 yr old son knows by my stand in this matter that no matter what he could ever do in life, the outcome will be that I will always love and forgive him. If we throw away people because they fall or sin, what are we doing to our own children-throwing them out if they don't live up to our laws? I so not like it when my son sins, but I forgive him always! Yes, I may have to chastise him for sins-but I always forgive! http://www.writers-pen.com/images/mysig.gif

[beginagainrose]

As a writer myself, I have to say I haven't read such a well written, articulate and compassion summary of this entire matter as I have in your 2 posts. I have read a great deal in all that I have researched for my own book regarding and for falled pastors ... well, said, dear sister. (Note: I have checked out your website and LOVED it... trying to get life to settle down so I can give it the time and attention it deserves-would of sent a private message but I saw that you prefer not to receive them:) ) BTW, my publisher is in the Springs. Would love to communicate to you if you are interested... beginagain911@yahoo.com -- if you are interested.

[exwitchoz]

As a writer myself, I have to say I haven't read such a well written, articulate and compassion summary of this entire matter as I have in your 2 posts.

May I add a ditto and an Amen to that?

You are certainly quite a gifted wordsmith SG... and I would like to encourage you to pursue Rose's suggestion... surely such a talent/gift and a passion for the things of God is a much needed thing today...

You go girl! :D

[Voyager]

My dad was a Pastor too. He raped his daughter! He beat his wife! He cut her and himself with razor blades! He beat his kids!

This statement goes to prove that just because a man or woman declares themselves as called by God to become a pastor, their self-proclamation does not qualify them in any way, shape, or form to be in the ministry. It's my belief that no person who is abusive to others should ever be given the title of pastor.

Here is a direct quote from Ted Haggard:

"I am a deceiver and a liar," Haggard wrote. "There is a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I've been warring against it all of my adult life."

With Ted admittedly being involved in drug abuse and having extramarital sexual affairs with a gay prostitute, he has no right to wear a pastor label. I am by no means a judgmental person, but once you put on the pastor label you hold yourself up to a much higher standard than others.

You have to realize, Gale, that this is a forum for people who have been abused by pastors. When I see the kind of behavior that Ted Haggard has succumbed to, it only makes me more skeptical of religious leaders. Too many of them force one way of living on everyone else and then do completely the opposite. When I see you defend Ted Haggard in such an aggressive manner, it only reminds me of how deeply I was in denial when I was devoted to an abusive pastor.

:cool:

[Voyager]

Here is a quote from the Apostle Paul to Timothy in 1st Timothy Chapter 3 on what the qualifications of a pastor should be:

Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.

That sets a pretty high standard, and it doesn't look to me like Ted Haggard has met that standard. I am sure someone will say to me, "Who are you to say who can be a pastor or not? Are you God?" No, and you're right - I am not qualified to set the standard of how a pastor should conduct themselves. That is why I quoted the above passage directly from the Bible. I would dare to guess that none of our abusive pastors have met these requirements.

:cool:

[Voyager]

P.S. - I am not trying to start a debate with Gale or anyone else here. But when someone aggressively defends a pastor who is admittedly sexually perverted on a spiritual abuse forum, to me that is like someone trying to defend a rapist on a rape victims forum. If I am out of line for stating this, then feel free to delete my posts Jerry.

Peace to everyone including Gale. These are simply my opinions.

:cool:

[exwitchoz]

So much for me trying to lurk, huh? ;)

You make several good points Voyager... However IMHO there must always be room for the repentent heart...

The humility of knowing our limitations as well as the depths to which we have fallen in sin is extremely valuable currency in the Kingdom of God... Take, for example, the teaching in Luke 7:47, when Jesus noted that a person who has been forgiven much will love much and the one who has been forgiven little will love little...

Whether or not Ted Haggard has truly repented is something I don't want to get into debate over... that is something that is between him and God atm I guess...

I just pray that God uses what has happened in Ted Haggard's life to bring him into a closer relationship with Him... and that the rest of us are made more mindful of all that we have been forgiven and that we are truly only 'sinners saved by grace' "and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any should boast" - Eph 2:8-9

[Voyager]

You make several good points Voyager... However IMHO there must always be room for the repentent heart...
I agree with you Jean. Everyone deserves forgiveness. However, the real question is: Is there room in the pulpit for pastors who have chronically abused and misused their authority?

:confused:

[exwitchoz]

As I said... you raised some good points... that was one of them... ;)