"The Bully"" whose stirs up trouble

[butterfly]

My thread has nothing to do with Clementines and Voyagers resent upset.

I have been here for two years this coming March and I have seen my share of clashes amoung some of the members.

This is a safe place!! If not I wouldn"t still be here. I have found love and understanding from old and new members.

While this forum is a safe and loving place to be oh I say 98% of the time.

There is that 2% that comes in here to cause trouble and gets us on each other.

There was a "???'Pastor who had all the answers to our SA troubles.:( :( :( :(

Then a man joined and started right on one of our members for being a drama queen.:( :( :( :(

:( :( :( Then came the worse person!!!:( :( :(

This person attacked most of us in one way or other even sweet Theodora.

This person would twist our words making it look like we were wrong when we defened ourselfs.

Clever enough that new people thought she was being abused by us. Till she would attack them.

I thought there was going to be a split and the forum would shut down. Alot of people left. In July this person was taken off by the adm.

Only to come back with a different name. To attack Janice one more swip.

This person is gone but there has been sometimes I think she came back for awhile.

It is people like this that will come and go . Ones to push our triggers, To heal us from our SA, Or what ever selfrightous means they have to start a fight.

Its like being on the playground all getting along till this BULLY comes and stirs up trouble.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

butterfly shirley

[yeshua'smags]

(((((((((((butterfly)))))))))))))))))))

;)

[dougjb]

Hi butterfly,
You put together a good post and I agree with you that this is a 'safe place' 98% of the time to express oneself. It is the 2% or what you call the 'bully- who stirs up trouble' that I find interesting. This could be a great learning experience for us when having deal with difficult situations.
I have read some of the exchanges that have taken place in this forum in days past. The question is how to address the bully or those who are bent on stirring up trouble. One thing I have learned is that when someone is bent on stirring the pot, they will try to hit everyone's hot button - I am sure that we all have a few. The hot button may not be on the subject matter but back door or subtle assault on the person.
The purpose of this is what I call 'baiting people into a fight' in order to evoke a reaction or get people to react on an emotional level that appears retaliatory so you look like the aggressor. It is another form of manipulation. This is just something to reflect on.

Some food for thought
Dougjb

[Anna Marta]

(((((((((( Butterfly)))))))))

[ex-shep]

I must have missed it. Somehow I have managed to stay detached from the dawnybrooks that erupted over the years. I must confess I just realized it.

There are three things that start a fire: Heat, O2, and a combustible agent.
I have challenges on a bus, train, or some other public transportation vehicle. On come the loud mouth high school kids, or the schizophrenic drunk. I have to remind myself what starts a fire. I do not know which part I play. I can take myself out of the loop. I have even gone as far as getting off the bus and waiting for the next one.

I guess something can be said about taking what one likes and leaving the rest. Of course that and $3.76 will buy one a venti nonfat one sugar latte.

[Voyager]

I guess something can be said about taking what one likes and leaving the rest. Of course that and $3.76 will buy one a venti nonfat one sugar latte.
Pick me up on the way to Starbucks!

:D

[ex-shep]

Pick me up on the way to Starbucks!

:D

Next time I am upstate, you are on. :D

[DancingBear]

I am new here, but am going to post.

It seems we all face bullies in miriads of situations. At work, on the highway :eek: , at church, at home, and yes, even on the bus ;) .

I sat and pondered this for quite a while and kept coming back to several points:

1) Keep your eyes on Jesus, doing what He would want you to do, to put it in a simplified way.
2) chose your battles
3) draw a line, and once it is drawn, stick to it if you need to

Sounds pretty simple, but those 3 rules have gotten me, for one, into plenty of hot water! But, as long as I am doing my best before Jesus, isn't that what really matters? I am sick with worry about a hundred things that

1) I can't control
2) I can't change the outcome
3) Aren't really mine to worry about
4) Are keeping me from doing the things I need to be doing.

So, if I take each bully and decide if I am going to ignore or confront based on what I feel would be the best thing I can do at that time in that situation in front of Jesus - and then do it, and then stand by that decision and let the rest take care of itself and not worry about the outcome. Is THAT the best way???

Input???

And, just to confuse matters even more, how do we identify bullies before they become such a big problem that we are are totally enmeshed in their control and manipulation? In a way, isn't that what abuse is all about? Or am I oversimplifying it? I think that was what was going on with the churches I've had issues with. Control and manipulation....just like any bully.

More input??? Thoughts??

[ex-shep]

[QUOTE=DancingBear;42959]I am new here, but am going to post.

It seems we all face bullies in miriads of situations. At work, on the highway :eek: , at church, at home, and yes, even on the bus ;) .

Good points, Dancing. Good food for thought. Welcome aboard. :)

[Voyager]

Question to anyone: What constitutes a bully in a religious sense? Is it:

1. Someone who wants to impose their religious beliefs on others.

2. Someone who doesn't want to have others impose their religious beliefs on them.

I am not asking this in a confrontational way, but rather, in a constructive way.

:cool:

[Jerry]

Question to anyone: What constitutes a bully in a religious sense? Is it:

1. Someone who wants to impose their religious beliefs on others.

2. Someone who doesn't want to have others impose their religious beliefs on them.

I am not asking this in a confrontational way, but rather, in a constructive way.

:cool:

Ya know,,,,,it is really hard to define a "Bully" but I sure as hell know when I am being "Bullied" if that makes sense :D
Love Jerry

[hornblower]

My first bully was a boy in my neighborhood that lived right across the street. He made fun of us girls burying my little dead kitty cat. I told him off and my Mother threatened him I think if he didnt leave us alone. He came back one day and I threw him over my peach tree in the back yard with one arm...........I think my cousin had showed me jujitzu or something.

I would have to say my brother was the biggest bully Ive ever been around. All of my life too, didnt matter how old we got.

Then there was this boy in school that spit water on me from the water fountain.......I told the teacher because he looked so mean I didnt think I could walk home safely. He got in big trouble with the principals office.

Thjat was when I was young and then HS. I wont tell ya it was pretty bad for me.
Then my 2 bully husbands and a boyfriend.

Then Ive had 4 or 5 bully bossess, they seem to come in droves..........women and men.

What do you do with them?

That pastors wife was definitely a big time bully, magna cum laude laude!

Now my sister..............?

[hoipoloi]

It seems we all face bullies in miriads of situations. At work, on the highway :eek: , at church, at home, and yes, even on the bus ;) .
How do we identify bullies before they become such a big problem that we are are totally enmeshed in their control and manipulation? In a way, isn't that what abuse is all about? Or am I oversimplifying it? I think that was what was going on with the churches I've had issues with. Control and manipulation....just like any bully.



:cool:

Cool, man, cool.

Right on the nail!

How do you identify bullies before the problems?

I wish I knew -- most of my own anger of SA is against myself: how can I be so stupid as to let this happen? Am I easily conned? Why cannot I see through them and avoid them?

And above all, what's all this bullying to do with church? Can I now trust anybody in any church?

I suddenly find myself in a situation and wonder "How the Hell did I get here? What happened?"

If only I knew of dealing with bullies in an appropriate way -- but then if I try, I seem to dig myself further in.

Bullies in church seem to be expert in creating a social environment where I am in a "lose--lose game". Game? It's not funny!

:(

[Anna Marta]

Hi Dancing Bear,

Have you posted before? I don't think I know you. We're a neat family here and would like to get to know you. Feel free to share whatever you are comfortable with to help us get to know you.

Anna Marta

[Anna Marta]

Question to anyone: What constitutes a bully in a religious sense? Is it:

1. Someone who wants to impose their religious beliefs on others.

2. Someone who doesn't want to have others impose their religious beliefs on them.

I am not asking this in a confrontational way, but rather, in a constructive way.

:cool:

Dear Voyager,

Good questions - to me people who force ideas probably have more to do with being hard headed. I can be hard headed without being a bully. Although bullys can be hard headed, I think they have another aspect - lack empathy for others and use people basically as food to feed their ego.

If I refuse to accept a belief being forced on me am I a bully? I think not! But there are ways to defend our personal boundaries without being aggressive and hurtful to the dumb schmuck who is too eager or too ignorant to understand what boundaries are.

I just remembered something! A good way to tell something important about a person is by the way they handle being told "no" - "no, I don't agree with..., no, I don't want to do that... " Bullys do not like that at all! A hard headed person may enjoy a good argument, but doesn't mean to hurt your feelings or use you.

What do you think?

Love,
Anna Marta

[hoipoloi]

I just remembered something! A good way to tell something important about a person is by the way they handle being told "no" - "no, I don't agree with..., no, I don't want to do that... " Bullys do not like that at all! A hard headed person may enjoy a good argument, but doesn't mean to hurt your feelings or use you.

What do you think?

Love,
Anna Marta

:)

Anna Marta

I think that you are on to something here.

Food for thought.

[DancingBear]

My OPINION, (stress opinion)

I think a bully in any sense is someone who tries to FORCE something on someone else..verbally or physically. I listened to an evangelist a few weeks ago at a local church. I think I would definitely put him in the near bully category. Definitely not in the sincere category, at any rate! He not only made his point, but he DROVE it home ... over and over and over and over.... and then over again!

Now most people just fell asleep... I actually started to get annoyed and perturbed, because I knew this gentleman not only was NOT reaching the lost, but was actually turning many AWAY from Christ!! It was a very sad thing to see, someone representing Christ in a VERy prominent and public position who was a, yes, I think you could term him in a loose sense of the word, a bully.

What many, many Christians tend to forget is that it is up to GOD to do the convicting, not us. When we try to drive home our point, we are trying to do the convicting.... e.g. we are a bully.

My opinion. Same goes with any other religion, but I do think that that is one thing that makes other religions more attractive in today's society...they don't make people feel like they "have" to join...LOL

[Carmen]

Good questions - to me people who force ideas probably have more to do with being hard headed. I can be hard headed without being a bully. Although bullys can be hard headed, I think they have another aspect - lack empathy for others and use people basically as food to feed their ego.

If I refuse to accept a belief being forced on me am I a bully? I think not! But there are ways to defend our personal boundaries without being aggressive and hurtful to the dumb schmuck who is too eager or too ignorant to understand what boundaries are.

I just remembered something! A good way to tell something important about a person is by the way they handle being told "no" - "no, I don't agree with..., no, I don't want to do that... " Bullys do not like that at all! A hard headed person may enjoy a good argument, but doesn't mean to hurt your feelings or use you.

What do you think?

Love,
Anna Marta

It is not just about beliefs, some people just like to steamroll others, I think. Years ago Hubby and I needed to buy a kitchen (the appt. we were renting was new and didn't have one, plus most people take their kitchens with them in a move). We got the worst saleman, I think. He got so worked up about it, we wanted the el-cheapo kitchen and, thinking about his percentage, he ranted on about other kitchens, trying to force us to buy one more expensive. He didn't want no for an answer. He wanted to work on us until we would agree to a more expensive kitchen. He didn't see that we had boundaries and that he had gotten too far inside them, was like an elephant in a china shop. We were there perhaps for his ego, but moreso for his wallet. He didn't give a .... about our wishes. Uh, uh! Not with me. He might have rolled out the red carpet if we wanted an expensive kitchen though. Needless to say, we found an el-cheapo in another store and got it with the help of a nice salesman.

Bully salesman, go to another store. Bully pastor, go to another church.

[Anna Marta]

Bully salesman, go to another store. Bully pastor, go to another church.

Carmen,

If only it were that easy! The Norwegian book I spoke of earlier gave great advice just like that. The author said if more people simply walked out the door and stopped giving their support these men and these places would not be able to survive.

There's a quote from Abe Lincoln about fooling people - the part I remember now is "you can fool some people most of the time, but not all of the people all of the time." Maybe that's why some churches are called ships of fools???

Anna Marta

[Willow]

I found a great web site one time about bullying. I think ex-shep has seen that site too. I'll have to look it up. I run into bully situations in every area of my life. Some you just can't walk away from... like on the job or out at the farm where we board horses. If I left that farm/job... there would be a bully at the next one....stay tuned for the bully web site...

[Willow]

http://www.bullyonline.org

You gotta dig for it... but there's tons of info!

[dougjb]

Hi everyone,
I had another thought about the whole 'Bully' thing. May be we should look at 'bullies' as insecure people who attempt to dominate others [by whatever means] in order to maintain order in their lives. The question that seems to cross my mind is, why do they even need to push other people around unless there is something they need to mask in their own life. Bullies may in reality be very weak and insecure people who are too frightened to accept themselves and others as they are. Life is a terrifying thing left to itself - I must control and manage it.

Some food for thought
Dougjb

[Willow]

That's kinda the jist I got from reading articles about it dougjb. They recommend including the bully in activities and social events. Asking their opinion... bolstering their esteem.

[dougjb]

Hi willow,
It is a great idea of being inclusive with the bully and not pushing them away. The big challenge would be to communicate that they do not have to dominate and control. It is ok to be imperfect like the rest of us. It may take a little time to let them decompress from their present behavior - could be somewhat challenging.
I had another thought on the matter. Could some of the behavior of the 'bully' be a defensive in order to protect themselves from being hurt. We all have sinned and have been sinned against. In order not to be violated again, the bully uses aggressive behavior to defend against further violations.

Some food for thought
Dougjb

[Willow]

Well Doug,

We have a bully at the farm where I board my horse. We were just beginning to make some headway when she decided the land owner doesn't like her and want her there.... she's moving her horse this sunday. I asked her to reconsider and explained about the ripples that happen after the rock hits the water surface. I told her it would take awhile for all the dust to settle. Maybe things are irrepairable, but I thought maybe things would get better. It's too bad... but I think in some cases a bully is just scared to death of rejection.

Hi willow,
It is a great idea of being inclusive with the bully and not pushing them away. The big challenge would be to communicate that they do not have to dominate and control. It is ok to be imperfect like the rest of us. It may take a little time to let them decompress from their present behavior - could be somewhat challenging.
I had another thought on the matter. Could some of the behavior of the 'bully' be a defensive in order to protect themselves from being hurt. We all have sinned and have been sinned against. In order not to be violated again, the bully uses aggressive behavior to defend against further violations.

Some food for thought
Dougjb