Plz i need help [Archive] - Christian Recovery Forums

mpfeifer1

11-19-2006, 08:19 PM

clementine

11-19-2006, 09:09 PM

Hi Matthew,
I'm reading some books about this topic at the moment so I'd be happy to try and help you with your questions. Don't be afraid...God is far greater than anything evil and if you are his child then you have nothing to fear. You can pray and ask God for his protection.
Ask away whenever you are ready.
Clementine:)

Janice

11-20-2006, 02:25 AM

Carmen

11-20-2006, 04:15 AM

I think that it is better not to know or experience some things, if they can be avoided.

If I were you I'd just stick to what scripture says about that subject and not look for the world's version of it. I know that the occult may seem perversely fascinating, it was to me at a certain age, but things that fascinate perversely are not good for people in my opinion. I dabbled, wish I hadn't.

beginagainrose

11-20-2006, 04:50 AM

Discoverying more about God is a full-time job!...and the most wonderful adventure of life... He has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ. If He is in your heart and not just your head, He will lead you into all truth. Seek Him, He will be found by you when you search for Him with all your heart.:)

yeshua'smags

11-20-2006, 07:21 AM

I agree with Carmen, read it from God's word, not the world's version...that is what satan wants you to do because it's all lies. I think it is very cool that you'd come here and ask this! But the problem with going to the Bible is that it can be confusing and hard to find what you are looking for. If you tell us the questions that you are having, maybe we can help you find the answers. There are some very wise scholars on here that will know exactly where to look.
Just DON"T let them go unanswered. Satan will pick at your curiosity until you can't stand it anymore, and if you don't have any weapons in your pack, he will defeat you.;)
I'm praying for you Matthew! I hope you will trust us to help....:)

dougjb

11-20-2006, 08:09 AM

Hi everyone,
There is some really good advice here. I would like to throw in another thought. In Colosssian 2:15 it states, "Having disarmed the powers and authorities he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." The enemy has no authority to force or control a child of God. The only weapn satan hs is the power of deception to convince people that he has power he really does not possess. We [as Christians] seated in heavenly places in Christ and Christ has all authority in heaven and earth. God has our back covered.

Some food for thought
Dougjb

Voyager

11-20-2006, 09:10 AM

Reg

11-20-2006, 09:15 AM

Agree with the others here. Ignore them. Focus on thoughts that are good if you can.

I look at them like cochroaches. Watch them run once you turn the lights on.

clementine

11-20-2006, 01:39 PM

Matthew,
I wouldn't 'dabble in the occult' or experiment with anything either...
I guess what I meant was that it's OK to ask questions. I don't neccessarily think 'ignorance is bliss'. I think asking questions is important. Sometimes understanding something better can help us to deal with it.
Clementine

Jerry

11-20-2006, 03:20 PM

Hey guys my names Matthew im 21 live in canada with my mom....but heres my problem last couple of days ive been having questions that have been coming in to my head and there not good one ether there questions about the demonic relm and evil spirits now heres the problem i want the answers but i relize if i seek these answers then its going to take me deep into places where it could get rough.....i dont know what to do plz help me i want to walk with god but i dont want to fall to the enemy.

Stop Drinking,,,,,,Stop doing recreational Drugs,,,,Life is serious not a party.......When you were a youth,,,,,,,you thought as a youth......Now that you are a man,,,,,,,Think as a man ;) ,,,,,,,Yes ,,,things get rough,,,,,,,,,,,,So???????????
Love Jerry

renee nelson

11-20-2006, 09:21 PM

Stop Drinking,,,,,,Stop doing recreational Drugs,,,,Life is serious not a party.......When you were a youth,,,,,,,you thought as a youth......Now that you are a man,,,,,,,Think as a man ;) ,,,,,,,Yes ,,,things get rough,,,,,,,,,,,,So???????????
Love Jerry

Jerry Dear

Do you have more info.on this dear fellow's situation?, or are you prophetic?
I certainly hope you didn't fall into shame transferance here:mad: .

Love, Renee

mpfeifer1

11-20-2006, 10:12 PM

thanx u everyone for the advice i try not to think about it but its really hard

clementine

11-20-2006, 10:43 PM

Matthew,
Trying not to think about what? It's really OK to ask questions. Suppressing stuff does not make it go away. Sometimes it's better to bring these things out into the light. I'm sorry you're having a hard time.
Clementine

Voyager

11-21-2006, 12:42 AM

Matthew,

Here's a good article on how to get rid of phobias of this nature:

http://www.rck.net/phobias.htm

Hope it helps. I know where you are coming from. I used to have a fear of demons, but the less I gave place to the fear, the less powerful it became and now it is gone. Whatever you give your mind over to will rule your thoughts. It's all in your mind. You have the ability to overcome the fear, you just have to convince yourself of it.

:cool:

yeshua'smags

11-21-2006, 09:57 AM

Voyager, you could really be hurting this fella by lessening his situation to a phobia. Demons are real reguardless of whether you believe in them or not and if he's being attacked and tempted he needs some biblical truth to answer them. Not to mention combating whatever satan is trying to lead him into! I agree that not giving it power will help, but he needs something stronger than human will to replace them. I'm not trying to hurt you, or turn this into a fight, but he needs some real help with this situation. Not relegated to some website about phobias.

Matthew, Sugar, you need to ask those questions and there is NOTHING wrong with that! They are real and trying not to think about them will just make them stronger. Like Reg said, turn the Light on the cockroaches and watch them scatter.

exwitchoz

11-25-2006, 11:37 AM

Hey guys my names matthew im 21 live in canada with my mom....but heres my problem last couple of days ive been having questions that have been coming in to my head and there not good one ether there questions about the demonic relm and evil spirits now heres the problem i want the answers but i relize if i seek these answers then its going to take me deep into places where it could get rough.....i dont know what to do plz help me i want to walk with god but i dont want to fall to the enemy.

G'Day Matthew...

I can understand your wanting answers to questions about the demonic realm... after all as Christians we are called to a life of so-called 'Spiritual Warfare'... this is not an 'option' for a Christian... it is a part of our daily walk...

BUT... and it is a vitally important 'but'... there is a 'healthy' and an 'unhealthy' interest too...

I was a Christian... one who once wrote and published articles and booklets on 'sound doctrine' who became so morbidly engrossed in the 'demonic realm' that I ended up turning away from the faith and eventually went on to become the High Priest of a Neo-Pagan Coven (you can read my Testimony here - http://exwitchaustralia.com/About_Me.html ) before coming back to Christ...

If you have any specific questions I would be happy to answer them for you as best i can... but... as I said... there is a 'healthy' and an 'unhealthy' interest in such things...

Should you decide that you would rather pray about your interest in these matters I will be happy to pray for and with you - one of the miracles of the Internet ;) ... just let me know either way OK???

Also... as a resource... you may be interested in 'The Son and the Moon' Forums ( http://sonandthemoon.10.forumer.com )... a Forum set up by and for Christian exWitches... we are not 'experts' ...and I strongly recommend you avoid like the plague anyone who claims to be an 'expert' in such matters... but we - like those here when it comes to Spiritual Abuse - are simply a group of those who have 'been there... done that... and have the scars to prove it' when it comes to the occult... you can feel free to ask questions - or request prayer - there if you wish...

Praying already that the Lord will give you wisdom in your decisions...

Voyager

11-25-2006, 11:53 AM

Voyager, you could really be hurting this fella by lessening his situation to a phobia. Demons are real reguardless of whether you believe in them or not and if he's being attacked and tempted he needs some biblical truth to answer them.
Again, that is your opinion. I personally do not believe that demons are real. I believe demons are a figment of the imagination. On the other hand, phobias are real and have been thoroughly documented in modern medicine. In addition, daemonophobia is a real condition just like claustrophobia and other common phobias.

Many specific phobias can be traced back to a specific triggering event, usually a traumatic experience at an early age. Social phobias and agoraphobia have more complex causes that are not entirely known at this time. It is believed that heredity, genetics, and brain chemistry combine with life-experiences to play a major role in the development of anxiety disorders and phobias.

Phobias vary in severity among individuals. Some individuals can simply avoid the subject of their fear and suffer only relatively mild anxiety over that fear. Others suffer fully-fledged panic attacks with all the associated disabling symptoms. Most individuals understand that they are suffering from an irrational fear, but are powerless to override their initial panic reaction.

Again, I realize that stating my disagreement with traditional theology may not be widely accepted around here. However, this is my belief and I am as entitled to it as anyone else is to their own belief. By stating that I disagree with you, I am not trying to provoke an argument or a debate. I honestly believe that this person is dealing with a phobia, and not real demons. If that weren't the case, then we would all be getting attacked by demons on a regular basis, and this person would not be the only one with this intense fear of demons.

:cool:

exwitchoz

11-25-2006, 12:08 PM

I personally do not believe that demons are real. I believe demons are a figment of the imagination.

You are perfectly entitled to your belief Voyager... Just as I am entitled to my belief in the final authority of Scripture which states that demons ARE real...

...but if you prefer "experiential" rather than just Scriptural evidence... as an ex-occultist I can assure you that the spiritual realm IS indeed real... and that demons DO indeed exist... AND I do not suffer from any of the phobias, neurosis and/or other 'mental aberrations' that you mentioned and alluded to...

But enough of side-tracks, 'rabbit trailing' and other discussions... to get back to the original posters questions...

Matthew...

I would refer you to my earlier post above... and let you know that I await your reply...

Voyager

11-25-2006, 12:39 PM

The power of our imagination is a very incredible thing. When we give our minds over to a certain philosophy or ideology, it can literally take over our minds and become very real to us. For example, some people have gone as far to imagine themselves becoming gods or even Jesus Christ himself. When this happens, imagination becomes reality to them. They start hearing, seeing, and thinking about things that they never even considered before.

People who never had any experiences with demons can one day begin imagining that they are hearing and seeing demons. Once someone opens the door to this kind of thing, it can seem as though it is very real to them. The power of the human imagination knows no bounds.

I know this by experience. I used to be involved in a Charismatic church that believed in demon possession. The pastor became obsessed with demons, and this obsession was projected onto the congregation. Testimonials of demonic encounters were encouraged on a regular basis. Members of the church began to worry that maybe they were demon-possessed. The church started having regular exorcism meetings. For years I was scared of demons and demonic possession. One day I was sure that I saw a swarm of demons attacking our city (no, I was not taking drugs at the time - it was just my imagination, which was influenced by the teaching I was under). I even began to wonder if my wife and I were demon-possessed (I am sure a few of you are saying, "You are!" LOL!).

Once I escaped this abusive church, the fear of demons went away. Eventually I realized that all of this stuff was purely imagination and not real. Since I stopped giving my mind over to the idea of demon possession, I have never had even one demonic encounter, and the fear of demons has completely left me. I now believe that whatever you give your mind over to will rule your thoughts.

Is there evil in the world? Sure there is! Does "satan" cause all of it? I don't believe satan or any demons have anything to do with it. I think people choose to do bad or good, and the ones who choose to do bad are the cause of all the evil. They don't need any help from demons.

Again, this is my personal belief. If someone wants to disagree with it, I will respect that. But if you have the right to say my beliefs are wrong, then I also have the equal right to disagree with you.

:cool:

exwitchoz

11-25-2006, 12:49 PM

Oh I quite agree Voyager... there is some very VERY dodgy teaching doing the rounds when it comes to the demonic - and dare I say it - particularly in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles (tho' certainly not exclusively by ANY means).... much of it completely nonsensical... outright paranoid delusion in fact when taken to the extreme...

I've encountered it myself and spend a great deal of time and effort debunking it myself in the 'Articles Section' of my website ( http://exwitchaustralia.com/Articles001.html ).... In fact it's one of my "favourite" axes to grind...

...but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water...

After all... I am yet to see a 'loose leaf' Bible or one that comes with 'Liquid paper'...

If we can reject demons despite what the Bible says then why not say Christ Himself is merely "a figment of the imagination" also???

To my mind we accept it all ...or reject it all... there is no middle ground...

Either the Bible is the Word of God or it's not... it's that simple....

We may disagree on our interpretations of certain passages... but there are certain undeniable truths...

Would you agree???

Voyager

11-25-2006, 01:01 PM

If we can reject demons despite what the Bible says then why not say Christ Himself is merely a figment of the imagination???

To my mind we accept it all ...or reject it all... there is no middle ground...

We may disagree on our interpretations of certain passages... but there are certain undeniable truths...

Would you agree???
My understanding of the Bible and what it represents goes against traditional theological thinking. I believe that it was written thousands of years ago by imperfect men who lived in a day when burning people at the stake, degrading women, and murdering homosexuals was widely accepted. In addition, there was no explanation for medical and mental problems like we have today. Therefore, much of the medical and mental problems in their day were blamed upon "demons". Because their culture affected their beliefs, they added it to the Scriptures.

I guess this makes me a "liberal Christian". In other words, I believe in the foundational belief of the New Testament, namely that Jesus Christ died for our sins to make us right with God. But I take all the rest of the Bible with a grain of salt, realizing that much of it was influenced by the barbaric culture of the writers. For example, I don't think there is a literal hell, I think it's okay for women to speak in church (which goes against the commands by the Apostle Paul), and I don't think we should murder gay people (as we are commanded to do so in the Book of Leviticus).

I realize my beliefs are not widely accepted around here, but that's what I believe. In addition, I respect your beliefs and I hope you do not take offense at mine.

:cool:

exwitchoz

11-25-2006, 01:08 PM

It seems we will have to agree to disagree...

...but I would encourage you to have a look at the Articles Section I mentioned in my above post and see if anything there answers some of the queries that you've had due to the abusive Charismatic church you were involved with... I myself got fed a lot of baloney at a Pentecostal Church years ago about such matters and I would - and I mean this genuinely - be interested in the opinion of someone who is skeptical about the demonic to see if it in any way answers queries/skepticism they may have about the subject...

LATER EDIT:

It may be better to discuss this either off list by pm or in a new thread as I fear we are detracting from the original posters question/s....

Up to you Voyager...

Voyager

11-25-2006, 01:14 PM

Someone recently told me that skeptical is the opposite of gullible. At one time, I used to be very spiritually gullible. This opened up my imagination to all sorts of weird, spooky things. Now, I find myself spiritually skeptical by default. This happened because I have found over 99% of what I was taught to be false and/or inaccurate. At this point in time, God would have to show up in person to convince me of anything spiritual beyond the simple concept of Jesus dying for my sins to make me right with Him. I am very content not believing in demons and other spooky spiritual things. I no longer have any superstitions, and my mind is much more peaceful. I am not saying my life is perfect - far from it. But I have too many other issues to deal with let alone trying to deal with fighting off demonic attacks. Been there, done that, got worn out in the process.

Peace :cool:

exwitchoz

11-25-2006, 01:23 PM

ROFL... :D

I was known as the "Skeptical Occultist" when I was practicing for similiar reasons...

Much that I was taught by my "Mother Coven" was psycho-babble... only a small percentage was "genuine" the rest "mind games"...

We may not be so different as you may think...

Well... I'll certainly be praying that God lets you know with certainty - one way or the other - whether the demonic is real is not... ;)

'Til we meet again...

:D

Anna Marta

11-25-2006, 01:34 PM

THIS is a great thread thanks to you Matthew!

I hope you are following the interactions in the posts. This a good opportunity to get information and then be able to make up your own mind about your personal belief system. It can be educational to read what others think and especially learn that it is possible to agree to disagree. You can follow through and read and ask questions in a safe place from a safe source so you can decide for yourself what you think and choose to believe.

God bless you on your journey,
Anna Marta

ex-shep

11-25-2006, 01:40 PM

I have found that when people start focusing on demons (negative) instead of on God (positive), they can develop a phobia called "demon obsession". The solution is simple: Stop thinking and talking about demons, and start thinking and talking about things that you want in your life.

:cool:

Voyager is right about demonic phobia. It can be quite disabling. I have a friend who is paronoid about the devil under every rock. It is preventing one from having a quality life, then professional help can be helpful. The phobia can more be an organic disorder. Counseling, medication, and group support is often a good way to go. Certainly wish you the best in recovery. You deserve it.

exwitchoz

11-25-2006, 01:54 PM

Voyager is right about demonic phobia. It can be quite disabling. I have a friend who is paronoid about the devil under every rock. It is preventing one from having a quality life, then professional help can be helpful. The phobia can more be an organic disorder. Counseling, medication, and group support is often a good way to go. Certainly wish you the best in recovery. You deserve it.

Oh I agree 'demonic phobia' can rip your guts out... it can all but destroy you as a person... I've seen it myself...

I have seen people agonize over Christian books and websites that give L-O-N-G and involved 'geneologies' and 'heirarchies' of demons that are just NOT found in Scripture... in fact many of these come from occultic sources such as the Kabbalah and the like and as such are certainly NOT the sort of thing a Christian should rely on as a source of 'defense' (for want of a better term)...

We need to remember that Satan is a created being and as powerful as he may be he is NOT omni-present or omni-potent... He is NOT all knowing, all powerful or everywhere... and he is powerless against the awesome power of God...

...and it should also be remembered that he is a liar and a deciever... in fact he is most often described in Scripture by those terms (or similar) than by any other... and he will try to decieve that either a) he doesn't exist or b) that he is more powerful than he is... In the first case... by decieving ppl he doesn't exist he is given free reign because ppl don't see a problem where one exists... in the second... by decieving ppl into thinking he is more powerful than he is he gets ppl more concerned about HIM than about GOD... and that is NOT a healthy attitude for a Christian to take either...

One of the most balanced and useful articles I have found on Spiritual Warfare is by Jewel Van der Merwe and is re-printed at my site - http://exwitchaustralia.com/Articles/Doorways.html ...I COULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS HIGHLY ENOUGH... (PURELY personal opinion ONLY)

Anyway I have said my piece on this thread... I'll leave it alone for a while... ;)