dougjb
11-17-2006, 04:49 PM
Hi everyone,
From about mid-August through September I have gone through hell. The only way to understand the situation is to give a quick historical review leading up to this time.
A little over a year ago my mom [90 years old] drove into the front of a store. I came up to assess the situation and decided that I needed to move up there and help her out. Since I am self-employed, I had the flexibility to do it even though my work is 280 miles away. With some adjustments, I was able to accommodate the distance problem.
Now I had to find a church to attend. This is where things start to became interesting. Since I am a Presbyterian, I wanted to attend a Presbyterian church. The only church I knew of was 30 miles away but it was dissolving. After a few months I decided to call the pastor of this church to see if he was still around. It turned out that they were still meeting.
Even though they were still meeting, the church decided that they going to dissolve because they could not afford the pastor’s salary and there was little likelihood that they could get a replacement given their location. I started to attend in April and some of the members developed a renewed interest in keeping the church going because I have a Master of Divinity and was previously licensed in my denomination [PCA]. I told them that I would be glad to take over the pastoral duties if they wanted to continue meeting as a church. About half the members wanted to continue so we started the process of getting re-licensed with the idea of moving towards ordination.
This is where everything started to move into the twilight zone. As soon as I started submitting the paperwork to Presbytery my mom became extremely ill. This created a problem because I have to travel 6-700 miles to work and prepare for the exam for re-licensing and now my mom is in the hospital. Going into September, I am preparing for re-licensing, driving 280 miles to work and do all my work then drive back, and dealing with a very sick parent.
The bad new does not stop there. I was informed or warned by an Elder from another church that the interim pastor and members of the Session of my former church were going to make things very difficult for my re-licensing. It turned out that the interim pastor was going around for the last year telling people that I was not called to the ministry. Why he would do that is an absolute mystery because we do not know each that well. Besides work, a very sick parent, preparation for licensure, now I have people who hardly know me determined to oppose my re-licensing regardless of what happens at Presbytery.
I was getting together with another pastor and he told me that this interim pastor is going around during earlier Presbyteries in the various committee meetings saying that Doug is not called to ministry. This is called ‘poison the well’ to prejudice the thinking of people without an opportunity to depend oneself. Anyway, what is befuddling me is why he would do it.
I told the members of the church that there is going to be problems at Presbytery and do not be surprised if my re-licensing attempt goes into the tank. Even at this point I could not imagine why they would not re-license me because of the simple fact that I was previous licensed by the same Presbytery.
Let’s move to the big event the Presbytery meeting. As I was driving to the meeting I began to review, ponder, reflect, and with prayer the situation. I began to realize that the odds are not in my favor in being re-licensed. Since I was committed to the process go through with it and see what happens.
The first step of the process was going through the Credentials meet. They will ask questions in the four areas for licensure, which are Christian experience and call to ministry, Bible knowledge, theology, and the book of church order.
[I have been through the process before and I have seen many other going through the licensing and ordination process.]
The questioning was going well beyond general issues of pastoral competency; they were focusing my theological positions surrounding a controversy in the PCA between Norman Shepherd and the New Perspective of Paul and scholasticism, which is a dominate force in the PCA today. They could have been straight forward with the questioning but instead were being awkwardly indirect and vague. They were trying to determine my position without directly asking for it. I was eventually sustained [passed] by the credentials committee and was on my way for examination before the whole Presbytery.
The first thing I had to do is give my Christian experience and my sense of call into the ministry. This is usually quick and takes al little over minutes, but not today. There was an Elder, I do not even know, who started to challenge my call to ministry. He was asking every odd ball question imaginable. I realized right then and there that I was not going to get re-licensed. When it takes at least twenty minutes to refute the charges in this section of the exam, what is going to happen on the other parts?
The next part of the exam of the Book of Church Order was easy. On the next section covering theology, I was taken and hung out to dry. They were hitting me with questions that were absolutely unbelievable. I have seen a lot of exams before but nothing like what they were hitting me with. Do not misunderstand; it was not the whole Presbytery doing it but a specific group. What they did was ask complex theological questions and to defend each point with scriptural references. I might be explaining this in a generic way but it was intense beyond your wildest imagination. It finally ended and I got through the Bible exam without any serious problems.
Now comes the discussion and vote whether to re-license me. It is a closed discussion and vote so I had to leave the room. I do not know the specifics of what was said, but I could here the yelling and screaming going on from about 50 feet away. This went on for at least a half and hour. Whatever was said about me during the closed meeting and the months leading up to it got a lot of people in an uproar. It turned out that I was sustained [passed] everyone thing except the theology section, which was a tie vote and the moderator voted against me. He told me that he did not vote against me because of any theological considerations but because there was a controversy. Huh? As a result, I was not licensed. What a maniacal joke this was!!!! I know my theology!!!!!!!!!!!
There are a lot of things I was not able to say because of space considerations but it was a learning experience. Even after 27 years of dealing with twilight zone behavior in the church, I have gain a much better understanding of why there is so much odd ball behavior in church leadership. Mark my words, I will be sharing it!!!!!!!!!
Some food for thought:D
Dougjb
From about mid-August through September I have gone through hell. The only way to understand the situation is to give a quick historical review leading up to this time.
A little over a year ago my mom [90 years old] drove into the front of a store. I came up to assess the situation and decided that I needed to move up there and help her out. Since I am self-employed, I had the flexibility to do it even though my work is 280 miles away. With some adjustments, I was able to accommodate the distance problem.
Now I had to find a church to attend. This is where things start to became interesting. Since I am a Presbyterian, I wanted to attend a Presbyterian church. The only church I knew of was 30 miles away but it was dissolving. After a few months I decided to call the pastor of this church to see if he was still around. It turned out that they were still meeting.
Even though they were still meeting, the church decided that they going to dissolve because they could not afford the pastor’s salary and there was little likelihood that they could get a replacement given their location. I started to attend in April and some of the members developed a renewed interest in keeping the church going because I have a Master of Divinity and was previously licensed in my denomination [PCA]. I told them that I would be glad to take over the pastoral duties if they wanted to continue meeting as a church. About half the members wanted to continue so we started the process of getting re-licensed with the idea of moving towards ordination.
This is where everything started to move into the twilight zone. As soon as I started submitting the paperwork to Presbytery my mom became extremely ill. This created a problem because I have to travel 6-700 miles to work and prepare for the exam for re-licensing and now my mom is in the hospital. Going into September, I am preparing for re-licensing, driving 280 miles to work and do all my work then drive back, and dealing with a very sick parent.
The bad new does not stop there. I was informed or warned by an Elder from another church that the interim pastor and members of the Session of my former church were going to make things very difficult for my re-licensing. It turned out that the interim pastor was going around for the last year telling people that I was not called to the ministry. Why he would do that is an absolute mystery because we do not know each that well. Besides work, a very sick parent, preparation for licensure, now I have people who hardly know me determined to oppose my re-licensing regardless of what happens at Presbytery.
I was getting together with another pastor and he told me that this interim pastor is going around during earlier Presbyteries in the various committee meetings saying that Doug is not called to ministry. This is called ‘poison the well’ to prejudice the thinking of people without an opportunity to depend oneself. Anyway, what is befuddling me is why he would do it.
I told the members of the church that there is going to be problems at Presbytery and do not be surprised if my re-licensing attempt goes into the tank. Even at this point I could not imagine why they would not re-license me because of the simple fact that I was previous licensed by the same Presbytery.
Let’s move to the big event the Presbytery meeting. As I was driving to the meeting I began to review, ponder, reflect, and with prayer the situation. I began to realize that the odds are not in my favor in being re-licensed. Since I was committed to the process go through with it and see what happens.
The first step of the process was going through the Credentials meet. They will ask questions in the four areas for licensure, which are Christian experience and call to ministry, Bible knowledge, theology, and the book of church order.
[I have been through the process before and I have seen many other going through the licensing and ordination process.]
The questioning was going well beyond general issues of pastoral competency; they were focusing my theological positions surrounding a controversy in the PCA between Norman Shepherd and the New Perspective of Paul and scholasticism, which is a dominate force in the PCA today. They could have been straight forward with the questioning but instead were being awkwardly indirect and vague. They were trying to determine my position without directly asking for it. I was eventually sustained [passed] by the credentials committee and was on my way for examination before the whole Presbytery.
The first thing I had to do is give my Christian experience and my sense of call into the ministry. This is usually quick and takes al little over minutes, but not today. There was an Elder, I do not even know, who started to challenge my call to ministry. He was asking every odd ball question imaginable. I realized right then and there that I was not going to get re-licensed. When it takes at least twenty minutes to refute the charges in this section of the exam, what is going to happen on the other parts?
The next part of the exam of the Book of Church Order was easy. On the next section covering theology, I was taken and hung out to dry. They were hitting me with questions that were absolutely unbelievable. I have seen a lot of exams before but nothing like what they were hitting me with. Do not misunderstand; it was not the whole Presbytery doing it but a specific group. What they did was ask complex theological questions and to defend each point with scriptural references. I might be explaining this in a generic way but it was intense beyond your wildest imagination. It finally ended and I got through the Bible exam without any serious problems.
Now comes the discussion and vote whether to re-license me. It is a closed discussion and vote so I had to leave the room. I do not know the specifics of what was said, but I could here the yelling and screaming going on from about 50 feet away. This went on for at least a half and hour. Whatever was said about me during the closed meeting and the months leading up to it got a lot of people in an uproar. It turned out that I was sustained [passed] everyone thing except the theology section, which was a tie vote and the moderator voted against me. He told me that he did not vote against me because of any theological considerations but because there was a controversy. Huh? As a result, I was not licensed. What a maniacal joke this was!!!! I know my theology!!!!!!!!!!!
There are a lot of things I was not able to say because of space considerations but it was a learning experience. Even after 27 years of dealing with twilight zone behavior in the church, I have gain a much better understanding of why there is so much odd ball behavior in church leadership. Mark my words, I will be sharing it!!!!!!!!!
Some food for thought:D
Dougjb