On the topic of worship

[Willow]

I must say... the worship topic started by Elle has hit an area I thought I didn't care about anymore. Out of respect, I started a new thread to talk about my own stuff.

As a worship director... I was so minimized that I was not allowed to be called by the title of my role in the church. It was because I am a female. If I had been a male, i would have been front and center and in all the brochures and announced from the pulpit, ordained... etc. The church I moved 800 miles north to help plant, did not even acknowledge that I needed a salary to survive. I was happy to serve and struggle to a point. But when the pastor and all the other copastors were living in big houses and driving their SUVs... sending their kids to the best schools, etc... well... I began to question why, if the church was doing so well, I wasn't able to survive financially and had to buy powdered milk and eat potatos. I even made salads out of the violets in my yard... they are delicious!!! Don't get me wrong... I did work a job for 7 years of the 10 I was there. The last three were spent trying to start a business so I could devote more time to the church. I was one brainwashed puppy. Thanks to friends at the clergy recovery forum here at NACR, I was able to learn that I was being abused. Yes... my church was abusing me. I began to notice the abuse happening to others then. It was as though the only person who had a voice in the church was the pastor. It was an authoritarian set up and I couldn't convince any of the leadership of it because of the pastor's quiet nature. He talked like Mr. Rogers. Have you ever had a person who sounded like Mr. Rogers say something horribly harsh to you? It's like your brain shuts down. The body language says... "I love you", the words say, "I hate you". It was sooo confusing. Anyway... the thing I noticed about the church was that the true personality of the church was quinched. The giftings people brought to the table were rejected and minimized. The callings that people had were not acknowledged unless they lined up with the pastor's model for the church. The model he chose was a clone of a mega church in Louisiana. Trying to cram our Kentucky congregation into the mold of a Louisiana church was like cramming a dove into light socket and expecting it to shine. We just didn't fit the mold. It was so sad. The congregation had such a rich personality and set of giftings and most were unable to use them within the narrow parameters of the church. what's worse is... people were not listened to or communicated with. The congregation that made up the church had no voice in the church. This led me to study different styles of leadership. I discovered that authoritarian styles (where the pastor has the only voice) were neat and ran easily and were less messy to run. Other styles that gave the people ownership of their congregation were very messy... people whined and complained. Lots of minds and wills and preferences came into play. The thing is... these were the healthier congregations. They looked less efficient and less healthy, but in reality... these were the congregations that dared let the body of Christ be the body of Christ.

All that... and I still don't feel like I expressed my dispair... oh well.

[Florence]

Wow, Willow, your experience sounds a lot like my first abusive church! The whole female thing and all! My second experience has been with that wonderful Mr. Rogers-style pastor - and you're exactly right, he can shoot you right between the eyes and you're so stunned it's kind of like when someone gets shot in the movies and it goes into slow motion. Your body jerks back, you hang there in mid-air for what seems like an eternity, and then you just crumple to the ground - sometimes just grazed, other times mortally wounded. I remember walking away from conversations and realizing hours or even days later what had actually been said.

Much like your church, mine patterns itself after Willow Creek - funny thing is, they try every Willow Creek program that comes down the pike and it always bombs. But, there are a few millionaires in the church who the pastor calls on whenever he needs more money for the next building phase or the next staff position so people flock to this state of the art facility - 2500 per Sunday. The turnover is incredible - that in itself says something.

The pastor's son is in his second year of playing pro ball - so now he has a new cash cow to fund his programs and as long as he has money, there are enough people willing to come and gawk to make it look successful.

So, here I am with Job saying, "God, I don't know what You're up to, but You are God and I'm not so I'll just trust and praise You anyway."

Florence

[Willow]

Exactly Florence! It would take me days to process conversations like that and realize how horribly harsh they really were! Once I decided (for the first time ever) to spend a saturday with my mom (who was visiting from out of state) rather than show up for practice. I had all the materials ready for practice... tapes made up of new songs... sheet music for different instruments... everything they possibly needed. My pastor looked at me and said, "Well... I guess I just won't show up sunday to preach either then." That's all he said, in his sweet tone of voice. It totally disarmed me and I promised to come and repented for my crucial error. Then promptly went and broke my wrist... that very same day!!! Not on purpose... but that's how desperate I was subconsiously to stand up for what I needed.

I am familiar with the big church you mentioned. I visited that church once. There's a guy that scares me a lot that studies all the mega churches and mega movements in the world. I won't say his name, but he has some kind of apostleship doctrine that is most frightening. He considers himself and apostle to the apostles. And... he is taken seriously in these mega movements!!! I could easily see where the extreme authority thing would adopt such a mentality.

Anyway... enough of a rant for now. It's very nice to feel understood. Thanks :)

[Jerry]

He talked like Mr. Rogers. Have you ever had a person who sounded like Mr. Rogers say something horribly harsh to you? It's like your brain shuts down. The body language says... "I love you", the words say, "I hate you". .

Dear Willow,,
A guy like this reminds me of a Christ quote;"I would that you were either cold or hot,,,,but because you are luke warm,I spew you out of my mouth!!!"
Love Jerry

[Willow]

yah... that and the one about the whitewashed sepulchre. It's not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of his mouth... yah... I guess I could quote him into the ground too. Thing is... I still care about those people. I really don't want to hate them. I feel guilty when I talk bad about them. :eek: