trying church is hard work

[hornblower]

it is for me anyway. Tonight I went to the grief class and goofed up. Of course I goofed up? Its what I do right? Yes its what I do. I talk and I talked too much. I went to the councelor today and it seemed she was overwhelmed with my overwhelming. Then tonight as I left to go to the church I backed into my husbands car so theres a broken tail light on my car and a dent in his. Of course hes upset with me who wouldnt be. I stayed quiet at first didnt say anything and the really hurting woman spoke up. Talked for a long time. Then the other lady and the other lady then me. Then more film and he spoke so much about real pain I was fooled into thinking I can be myself but I cant. I CAN NEVER be myself! No more than my daughter can ever be herself.
Nobody can handle me.
Im worse than a plague. Im Job. Its not that my pain is bigger its not bigger its not near as big I know that. Its that something is very wrong with the way I am. So I was reprimanded in front of everyone.

"I dont think we should discuss that here. This is a subject we could go on and on about. I think we need to go on. Its getting late and I HOPE we have time left to study the rest of our study but i dont think so!"

So I fought back tears sucked them down and choked on them during the last prayer. Nobody dared to speak afterwards but then they all go to church there they all know each other.
I tried to be lighthearted and talk to one lady but she woulnt even look at me. So I walked out to "Ill call you, I have called you all week long, (no she didnt she called one time) shes calling me to tell me to go to another class. I dont want to go anywhere else.
I dont want to go anywhere at all I want to die thats all I want to do.
So
Now Im drinking and remembering that on channel 183 they have this commercial where this woman is drinking wine and emailing and crying, lol. "The dont mix wine and email message for life!"


The man on the machine in the grief class can talk about pain but that doesnt mean I can.

So whats this about? Its about me wallowing in self pity. Thats what I do according to my therapist. She said that If I tell inappropriate things trying to get comfort then I get the wrong response. I said that when I was at that church I didnt tell to get people to feel sorry for me I told to get people to pray for her and for my family. So then she said so why didnt you just write it or why (I really couldnt hear her after this).

What this means is I shouldnt be alive and i shouldnt be here. I should leave. Because there is no place to go too and right now in saying this to you I am wanting you to say to me NO Hb stay here we love you! So see i do wallow in self pity, I DO! I do want somebody to love me and make the pain go away but it wont because there is nobody here and there never will be.
I should go to God with all of this but Im tired of going to God because He doesnt have any arms.
Tomorrow I will probably get up and go do what im supposed to do Ill be ok Ill be good because i dont want my grandsons to grow up in shame about their stupid grandmother killing herself.
Oh It would be so nice to just slip away and be quiet and have the lights go out and sleep forever. In my dreams i go somewhere else and somehow there its different than it is here I dont cry.

Church is about structure. Only Im not inanimate, Im a person.
I also called my sister this morning and of course she didnt call back. I left this sweet message, said i love her. She didnt call me back. I was doing the grief work on both of my parents and my brother and dealt with several things and i was feeling pretty good like do it instead of wondering just go ahead and try.
So now what am I left with?
Oh well..........
:eek:

[ex-shep]

This cold ridden poster was getting ready for bed. [Fidelio and Rose: Be prepared for blanket duty]

It sounds to me that you were still learning the ropes. Nothing to be ashamed of. I have been in 12 step groups for 20 years and that is an occupational hazard of newcomers. I will try to read the post in a little more detail in the morning. In any case, no need to be hard on yourself. Local lattes available upon request on payday.

[Theodora]

I love you!...and I'm so sorry that your effort at reaching out met with disappointment. THIS IS ABOUT "THEM,"...not you! You SHOULD be able to "vent"/discuss/share your story until you feel you have been heard. I don't see this as "wallowing in self-pity," but simply your way of processing your feelings. Have you ever done Meyers-Briggs personality typing? Some people "think out loud" and really NEED the feedback/reflection of other people. Other people are more interior in their thinking, preferring to process things and THEN to present a distilled version of what is going on. (I'm usually in the latter category.) The fact that we're different does not mean that YOU should not do what YOU need to do to heal. You are handling a LOT...on so many fronts...and if it's a bit much for some people, SO WHAT??!?! Perhaps your being there can change the dynamics of the group. DON'T feel that it's YOU who is out of place because their group format didn't quite fit your need. Groups need to be more flexible and...if there are some who have special concerns, it's important that people be allowed to express them.

I too have been in groups where I came away more exhausted than when I went in because the moderator wasn't "moderating"---and people didn't seem to know how to present their needs/feelings. It sounds to me like your group leader might be relatively inexperienced....the lack of "diplomacy" really concerns me about her. Don't give up though, if you can manage it. It might not be perfect, but it IS a start in the healing process.

I seem to remember that you're not too fond of self-help books...(or???)...but, since you're dealing with grief issues, I thought I'd mention Bob Deits' down-to-earth book "Life after Loss." I found it very helpful and really liked Deits approach, stressing the individual nature of the grieving process, as well as the physical toll it takes on the body. The NACR "library" also has some good articles on the subject which I've liked.

Beyond that, as a personal aside...though I too have not been too successful at "journaling"--other than what sort of emerges as that when I'm able to post on the forums--when I'm REALLY stressed and wanting to work things through, I've found it helpful to record an "audio-letter"....it doesn't always matter whether I have an actual recipient. That way....I can talk as much as I need to (and am not restricted to how fast I can type)...and it sort of allows me to "put things to rest"---knowing that I've expressed myself (and can always return to my train of thought at a later time if I want to...or share it on. At one point when my older son was acting out as a teen, I had a very savvy/very caring priest who would listen to these tapes when he was in the car en route some place...or whatever...and then, when we were able to get to a private counseling session, he would have had a chance to reflect on what I'd shared so that the "one-on-one" time was kept focused and to a minimum...which was necessary for us both at the time.

Blessings to you, dear one...and to those you hold dear. You've had many "rough" patches----but you also know beauty and you have a very caring soul. Therefore...keep the faith and "keep on 'keeping on'" as my brother-in-law says. I'm so sorry you're in so much pain, but will be praying that you'll once again find a way through it.

(((Hornblower)))--

Love and prayers--

Theodora

--


it is for me anyway. Tonight I went to the grief class and goofed up. Of course I goofed up? Its what I do right? Yes its what I do. I talk and I talked too much. I went to the councelor today and it seemed she was overwhelmed with my overwhelming. Then tonight as I left to go to the church I backed into my husbands car so theres a broken tail light on my car and a dent in his. Of course hes upset with me who wouldnt be. I stayed quiet at first didnt say anything and the really hurting woman spoke up. Talked for a long time. Then the other lady and the other lady then me. Then more film and he spoke so much about real pain I was fooled into thinking I can be myself but I cant. I CAN NEVER be myself! No more than my daughter can ever be herself.
Nobody can handle me.
Im worse than a plague. Im Job. Its not that my pain is bigger its not bigger its not near as big I know that. Its that something is very wrong with the way I am. So I was reprimanded in front of everyone.

"I dont think we should discuss that here. This is a subject we could go on and on about. I think we need to go on. Its getting late and I HOPE we have time left to study the rest of our study but i dont think so!"

So I fought back tears sucked them down and choked on them during the last prayer. Nobody dared to speak afterwards but then they all go to church there they all know each other.
I tried to be lighthearted and talk to one lady but she woulnt even look at me. So I walked out to "Ill call you, I have called you all week long, (no she didnt she called one time) shes calling me to tell me to go to another class. I dont want to go anywhere else.
I dont want to go anywhere at all I want to die thats all I want to do.
So
Now Im drinking and remembering that on channel 183 they have this commercial where this woman is drinking wine and emailing and crying, lol. "The dont mix wine and email message for life!"


The man on the machine in the grief class can talk about pain but that doesnt mean I can.

So whats this about? Its about me wallowing in self pity. Thats what I do according to my therapist. She said that If I tell inappropriate things trying to get comfort then I get the wrong response. I said that when I was at that church I didnt tell to get people to feel sorry for me I told to get people to pray for her and for my family. So then she said so why didnt you just write it or why (I really couldnt hear her after this).

What this means is I shouldnt be alive and i shouldnt be here. I should leave. Because there is no place to go too and right now in saying this to you I am wanting you to say to me NO Hb stay here we love you! So see i do wallow in self pity, I DO! I do want somebody to love me and make the pain go away but it wont because there is nobody here and there never will be.
I should go to God with all of this but Im tired of going to God because He doesnt have any arms.
Tomorrow I will probably get up and go do what im supposed to do Ill be ok Ill be good because i dont want my grandsons to grow up in shame about their stupid grandmother killing herself.
Oh It would be so nice to just slip away and be quiet and have the lights go out and sleep forever. In my dreams i go somewhere else and somehow there its different than it is here I dont cry.

Church is about structure. Only Im not inanimate, Im a person.
I also called my sister this morning and of course she didnt call back. I left this sweet message, said i love her. She didnt call me back. I was doing the grief work on both of my parents and my brother and dealt with several things and i was feeling pretty good like do it instead of wondering just go ahead and try.
So now what am I left with?
Oh well..........
:eek:

[renee nelson]

[QUOTE=ex-shep; I have been in 12 step groups for 20 years and that is an occupational hazard of newcomers. [/QUOTE]
I have also been in groups for a long time and I remember being told "you shouldn't talk about that here..." I kept going and I kept talking openly and I learned to take what I like and leave the rest behind. Please keep going for your healing.:)

[clementine]

Hello Hornblower...
Let it rip!
Some days it all goes pear-shaped doesn't it?:(
So sad to hear that you're feeling so wretched...and misunderstood.
It's OK to want love! It's OK to want to be heard! It's OK to want comfort! It's OK that there's so much to tell! It's OK to be you!
So sorry that you felt humiliated in that group thing.
Is it really a safe place?
Someone once said to me that it's important to keep talking until you don't feel like talking about it anymore and then you know you're getting better.

Be kind to yourself today...
Can you think of some true things to hang on to?

BTW God hears your cries even if you're not telling him directly.
Besides which I'll be letting him know all about it.
Big hugs,
Clementine:)

[hornblower]

I love you Theo. When you arent here I feel so alone. You are one special lady in my book and can I say I think my book is kept for me by the man?
My d just called me and shes had a very bad dissapointing day herself. I am once again reminded that I cannot go beyond where she is. I know that doesnt make sense but somehow its wrong of me to be doing better than she is when she is hurting so much.

Shes lonely she wants so much to move out of the dump and the lonliness. She needs to learn though Theo?
Lol she said she spent all day washing dishes. haha. No dishwasher at all there no disposal. Oh Lord these babes. Im sure my Mom is looking down from heaven laughing at me too. My poor Momma she always had so much work to do I couldnt believe what she grew up doing. Sent away from home to take care of others when she was nine years old. None of us have any idea what work is these days.

Now my stupid stomach is hurting from the silly margaritas. It NEVER pays to drink no matter what it never does.
That lady has a lot of pain that hurt my feelings tonight. The stephens councelor told me she has had a lot of hurt in her life so maybe thats why she did that I dont know why she did that to me. I really didnt think I said like way too much. I just hate stuff that is so stuffy. Its stuffy there. Like a really uptight place. Its just not me. I think I am more a hippy church person. Only I dont see any hippies down here and the hippies i know arent hip anyway they are stuffy too all snobby acting like their so superior. My brother was a hippy and therapy was so beyond him.........only crazy people went to therapy he said.
Yes i did do a Myers briggs and my therapist (my beyond cool second therapist, I've had three in my life) said that Im like one percent in the world. I thought that said a lot. Like duh no wonder I dont fit in? Then my today therapist told me just what you are saying that I have to process the way I do and its all normal. That made me feel better.

I guess ill call that lady that taught tonight. Im bad about calling people. Why does she have to call me why cant she talk to me when I come there after class or something. She shut me out of the group too on the outside of the hall way as we were all leaving.
Somehow Im beginning to believe ive lost the anointing???????????
I have no idea what that could possibly mean but my friend at the lake the one Ive had for years, my charismatic friend told me last weekend that I used to have this incredible anointing...............??????????
So now what am I chopped liver?????????????

God doesnt love me now? I sinned this huge sin and now its all gone this anointing that I had with God? Like what sin is it? I took care of my parents and payed off our bills because we got to sell our house? I went to college and took art courses? I told goofusmydoofus about my d and now all of the do good christians of the world hate me? Ok maybe I exagerate.
its just the goofus my kadoofusesesses of the Texas world, no the little communities i seem to live in.
Ohgle dogleness I dont know what Im saying any more.

Well I also tried to find this school that this charismatic friend of mine told me about and it doesnt exist! So there goes that happy dream too.

Ill be better tomorrow cause ill be able to drink my coffee in the morning. Thats the first thing that the lady in the Hiding Place did when she got out of all of her beyond miserable existance in that hell hole, drink a cup of coffee with cream in it. I cannot imagine how she made it through all of that but many people my friends live just that way on this earth. I am so blessed. Hmmmmm that lady at the grief group said that to me tonight that I was blessed because I told about the time i went and screamed bloody murder at my Mom and daddys grave site....just let it all hang out it was raining so hard nobody could hear me and they were both standing up there in heaven talking about me the little toots.
I can still hear my Mom talking to my Dad saying make her quit it Philip, do something! Haha.
So anyway im blessed. Maybe that was what made her mad at me who knows?
All day long Ive been thinking about something I heard yesterday on the radio.

"People spend all their lives trying to make enough money to impress people they dont like at all."

Yeah what do I care what these people think about anything anyway? Who are they?

[hornblower]

I think the margarita stuff is really making me sick, my head is hurting now, stomach is better since oh well you can imagine right?

going to bed, more tomorrow, its not twelve step ex shep, my gosh its there too? well what am i saying yes i know its there too! Its just been so long for me..........seven years you know I havent stuck my neck out in seven years.

Hurts to get my neck twisted like im a goose for cooking or a chicken neck like my mom once told me she kept twisting and twisting and it just ran around the yard with a yard long neck trailing behind!:eek:
thankyou clementine, and i love your name, very cool indeed of you, I must say!

renee what on earth can you not say in a twelve step meeting? I know what they wouldnt let me say???????? The name of Jesus, thats when I LEFT!
Must I always be leaving?
I feel like i should learn to walk backwards then i would never show up for anything?

[Reg]

Hornblower,

Just got a chance to read this thread. You are really going through it.

I find that when I am going through the fire, I have to read encouraging things.
These daily meditiations by Dale and Juanita Ryan often help.
http://two.pairlist.net/pipermail/nacrmed/

Today's was especially meaningful to me today. I am going through some difficult things re my business recently. They are forcing me out with a deadline of June 30/07. Am going through the negotiations now. Tomorrow will be another stressful meeting. I thought of you when I read it. Hope it helps you also.

NACR Daily Meditation for Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006

He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High
will rest in the shadow of the Almighty
I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress,
my God, in whom I trust".Psalm 91:1-2

Imagine yourself traveling across a desert in the heat of the afternoon
sun. You are desperate for a place to rest. You need shelter from the
heat. You search the horizon for a tree or a large rock that could provide
the comfort of shade.

During the process of recovery we become aware of our need for a sheltered
place in which to rest. The journey can be exhausting and disorienting.
But we don't know how to rest. It doesn't come naturally to us. We don't
know where to find a safe shelter.

Now imagine yourself resting in God's shadow. You are sheltered, safe,
at rest. The heat of the desert will not consume you because of God's protection.
You can sit and rest in God's loving presence. God is a shade, a shelter,
a fortress. You can draw strength and comfort from God's presence.

Rest has the potential of teaching us two essential truths. First, we
are not God. God is God. We are creatures. We are limited, finite, dependent.
It is a good thing to be a creature with needs. Second, when we rest we
may learn in new ways that we are loved. Because we are God's children,
God loves us. Not because of what we do, but simply because of who we are,
we are loved.

I turn to you, Lord
from the heat of the sun
and the pressures of the journey of life.
I turn to you
for shelter
and refuge.
I want to rest in you today.
Be my shelter
O Most High.
Amen.

Copyright 1991 Dale and Juanita Ryan

http://two.pairlist.net/pipermail/nacrmed/2006-November/001487.html

[hornblower]

thankyou so much reg........Im glad i came back here just now and read this thread again. My sister finally called me and it was so bad I cant emphazise how destitute i was feeling, crying, couldnt stop, she said horrible things to me. Praise God I am better right now. I forgave and will probably have to keep on doing so as God leads mne to do it and thats very hard for me to do as she is so filled with venom against me and its all lies, please God put it in someones heart to understand and know I would never lie or deal falsely with anyone most especially my family whom I adored way too much I seem to be realising.
She brought my suicides in the past up saying I was using that to manipulate people????????? Like what may I ask did it manipulate them to do for me since nobody ever did anything for me ever?
This is huge pain for me but God is really giving me some strength. Especially through your psalm.
I was sort of i guess you might say claiming it, understand what I mean,(?) I just said it over and over crying, and pleading, asking God to put something over my head to keep the thoughts off of me. I did say shelter.
When I get attacked like this I do want to commit suicide you know Im sorry, its just what happens.
As I was laying down upstairs afraid to tell my husband what all she said because she is using my words so much against me and some of it is about him. I thought I could trust her but I see I cannot at all, I was so wrong but what difference would it have made? No matter what I would have said it would have been turned against me she is like almost out of her mind with anger and she doesnt remember things that she says I am forgetting because I am mentally ill. ?????? NOT! Emotionally ill yes! Heart sick YES!
This is another death for me.
But you know what prayer works Reg that stevens minister is my help meet too what a glorious woman she is. Anyway I rose up from that bed and said to myself NOT this time! Im not going to believe the lies this time. Im not at fault! God told me this morning just barely a little whisper now i know why He was saying it. He told me i was a good person. I am! I am in his little house and Hes got a hold on me so Im not going to let this get to me not one bit! Im tired of it happening!
Thankyou so very much reg thankyou for everything.

[Reg]

So glad to hear you are doing better. The tone of your post is much better.

I took a course and was involved in a counselling ministry for a few years. Your initial post had a lot of dangerous signals.

I learned many years ago something very important. I've used this illustration with many to get the point across.

I would ask, "How do you get the air out of an empty bottle?

I would wait a couple of minutes for the answer. Very few could answer that.

Then I would say,

Fill it up with something.

You see, nature itself does not tolerate a vacuum. We are something like that empty bottle. What we put in it is our choice. As the old saying goes, Garbage in - Garbage out.

We all have an emptiness that needs to be filled. God's Holy Spirit fills a necessary hole in us. We then have to continue to fill ourselves with those thoughts that conform to His prompting. It takes an intentional effort to keep doing this. When we keep filling ourselves with the right thoughts, there is no room for the enemy to put his thoughts in us. We used to say, we have to get rid of our stinking thinking.

Remember this admonition?

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

[SueJean]

Hornblower, hugs a bunch! Oh, I could just hug you! Thanks for putting into words what I feel and think. Oh, hugs, hugs, hugs. You came through loud and clear to me. Grief work? What's that? I haven't a clue. Perhaps you'd be willing to help me w/ that. I'd greatly appreciate it a whole lot, a bunch even. Oh, I'm sooooooooo sorry that you're hurting. Please accept this e-mail hug from me to you. Hug!!!!!!!!!

[hornblower]

Sue jean Id be more than happy too. This is a class with loads of imformation in it about the stages of grief and the way to handle it.......... all good.
Here are some things i am learning in it.

Give yourself the priority at first by doing some good things just for you. Like taking warm baths and bubbles maybe or a little facial or painting your toes you know whatever you would like to do just pamper yourself as if you were at a spa. If youve never experienced a spa believe me NOTHING is better once you get used to it because its so different to spend the time and energy and money on yourself.

If you have lost someone recently in death.........Ive had several losses all different kinds and they go into that.........at first there is usually people there to comfort you and thats as good as it gets. After the funeral is when you really NEED people and they arent there.
Thers a very real physical side to grief, pains and musle soreness, weakness lethargy numbness some people even have a hard time seeing or lots of us cant think. Its good not to make any heavy desicions for awhile. Unfortuantely many people have to get on with life way too quickley and descions have to be made .......be careful and think slowly and wiseley about these desicions its best to take your time.
Keep a simple routine, cook dinner go to the grocery.
Exercise.
At first face your grief full force. Face the pain no matter what anyone else is saying to do. The natural tendency is to run away from it but thats not wise at all. Cry!
I went to my Mom and dads gravesite and let it all out big time. It was so incredibly healing.
Anger is a natural outlet of grief. Sometimes people that are grieving hurt the very people that are trying to help them.
There are rules written in this booklet for husbands and wives to do with their grief so they can help each other. If we would have read that it would have helped me so much still my husband has helped me a lot with a few tender gestures like touching my hand when I cry and giving me a handkercheif asking me what Im remembering then letting me get it out.
This was a biggy for me:
When someone dies we die a little too so we need to grieve that loss of ourselves.

My life has changed dramatically since the death of my parents and my brother. One minute all of my time was spent thinking of them for them and the next NOTHING Emptiness! Very scarey.
Begin to say goodbye...........not to the person, not to the memories but to the way it was between you and the other person. Write letters, talk to them, talk to God about them, email them as one sweet lady on here does. Whatever you do take time to do it, journal.

Theres tons of information in this class however the class itself is not all that good for me right now because they wont let me talk and I have just recently found out this is how I process information. No one else in my family has this personality but me so thats making it really hard.
and i cant paint it out theres no place to do that here.

The biggest help Ive found is this stephens ministry. I am praying for this lady that she will get triple blessed by being so kind to me and keeping it all secretive. Its so hard to trust anyone now after that church situation.
My lessons this week are supposed to be to go do something fun and keep it light. Like a lunch with my daughter in law. Ive always wanted to do that but when????????? how?????????


So far thats not been happening for me. Maybe today?:o
love you and so sorry for your loss want to talk about it Im right here for you believe me!:) Pm me or whatever youd like just let her rip............:p