Quotes on Forgiveness

[Reg]

Forgiveness is unfair but think of the consequences of the alternative.


Not to forgive imprisons us in the past and locks out all potential for change.

We forgive not merely to fulfill some higher law of morality; we do it for ourselves.

The only thing harder than forgiveness is the alternative.

Forgiveness breaks the cycle of blame and loosens the stranglehold of guilt.

The problem with revenge is that it never gets what it wants; it never evens the score. Fairness never comes. The chain reaction set off by every act of vengeance always takes its unhindered course. It ties both the injured and the injurer to an escalator of pain. Both are stuck on the escalator as long as parity is demanded, and the escalator never stops, never lets anyone off.

As long as you are tangled in wrong and revenge, blow and counter blow, aggression and defense, you will be constantly drawn into fresh wrong... Only forgiveness frees us from the injustice of others.

If everyone followed the "eye for an eye" principle of justice, observed Gandhi, eventually the whole world would go blind.

Politics deals with externals: borders, wealth, crimes. Authentic forgiveness deals with the evil in a person's heart, something for which politics has no cure.

Apart from forgiveness, the monstrous past may awake at any time from hibernation to devour the present. And also the future. Only forgiveness can break the back of the monster of the evil un-grace has unleashed upon the world.

Paul Tillich defined forgiveness as remembering the past in order that it might be forgotten.

The past must be remembered before it can be overcome.

After the civil war, politicians and advisors urged Abraham Lincoln to punish the South severely for all the bloodshed it had caused. "Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?" replied the president.

Christianity has always insisted that the cross we bear precedes the crown we wear.

Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.

No matter how it looks at any given point in history, the gates guarding the powers of evil will not withstand an assault by grace.

No one can forgive on behalf of victims. Victims have to forgive for themselves. And no one can forgive without full disclosure: what happened and who did what must first be revealed. Also, those who committed the atrocities must agree to ask for forgiveness before it can be granted.

Forgiveness is neither easy or clear-cut.

One may forgive the Germans but put restrictions on the armies, forgive a child abuser but keep him away from his victims, forgive Southern racism but enforce laws to keep it from happening again.

Because it goes against human nature, forgiveness must be taught and practiced, as one would practice any difficult craft. "Forgiveness is not just an occasional act: it is a permanent attitude," said martin Luther King Jr.

From his book "The Prisoner and the Bomb" Laurens van der Post recounts the misery of his wartime experiences in a Japanese prison camp in Java. In that unlikely place he concluded,

The only hope for the future lay in an all-embracing attitude of forgiveness of the peoples who had been our enemies. Forgiveness, my prison experience has taught me, was not mere religious sentimentality; it was as fundamental a law of the human spirit as the law of gravity. If one broke the law of gravity one broke one's neck; if one broke the law of forgiveness one inflicted a mortal wound on one's spirit and once again a member of the chain-gang of mere cause and effect from which life has laboured so long and painfully to escape.

God dispenses Grace - not wages. Grace is not about finishing last or first; it is about not counting.

(From the book, "What's So Amazing About Grace" by Philip Yancey)

[Hope 98]

Forgiveness [COLOR=Magenta][SIZE=2]is unfair but think of the consequences of the alternative.

The past must be remembered before it can be overcome.
No one can forgive on behalf of victims. Victims have to forgive for themselves. And no one can forgive without full disclosure: what happened and who did what must first be revealed. Also, those who committed the atrocities must agree to ask for forgiveness before it can be granted.

Forgiveness is neither easy or clear-cut.

One may forgive the Germans but put restrictions on the armies, forgive a child abuser but keep him away from his victims, forgive Southern racism but enforce laws to keep it from happening again.

(From the book, "What's So Amazing About Grace" by Philip Yancey)

I don't know if I agree that forgiveness is unfair. I'll have to think about that.

I also have considered the possibility that I can't forgive anyone - only God can. On the cross, Jesus said "Father forgive them". I don't know if he ever said that he hiimself forgave anyone. I do know that when I was struggling with forgiveness at one point, I gave them to God saying that I can't forgive them, that God would have to do that while I worked at it. It suddenly didn't seem quite so difficult then.

Last - the process of forgiving doesn't necessarily eliminate the pain of the wrong done, and it doesn't require that the wrongdoer must be trusted in the future. It was recognizing that that made all the difference in being able to forgive - or simply release to God - anyone at all.

[Willow]

Great points Hope and Reg!

I think we do forgiveness an injustice if we simplify it to a set of rules. The depth of the topic intrigues me... and all the clarifications it takes to realize what true forgiveness is. And... I also believe it's a gift from God. Any forgiveness I've tried to do on my own strength amounts to some form of denial and numbing against the truth of the injury committed to me. To fully forgive, I had to fully feel the offense, get really angry, and then let go of it. I can't let go of it if I don't let myself feel it first... it nags at me and comes up in blowups... like the crust on the top of a volcano.

Anyway.... silly thoughts... but it's the closest thing that comes to working for me on this subject.

[Voyager]

Does God forgive Satan?

Satan did things against God and became His enemy. My pastor did things to me and became my enemy. Why would Jesus require me to forgive my pastor unless He is ready to forgive Satan?

:cool:

[Voyager]

Sorry about that last reply, I hope it didn't trigger anyone. It's just that the forgiveness topic was used on so many of us as a requirement by our former abusers. So I think it just throws up a red flag for me. Maybe in our desire to choose for ourselves for a change, we toss aside a few things that are not so bad - like mandatory forgiveness. Forgiveness is good, mandatory is not good. I don't believe that God wants us to throw away our right to evaluate situations. I am a firm believer that salvation is not by works. If it were, then all doctrine would be mandatory and no one would measure up. Then we have the verse that says if we don't forgive, we won't be forgiven. That's why this is a hopeless debate for me. No one ever wins it, they just debate back and forth forever.

Obedience to religious doctrine just doesn't come automatically for me anymore like it once did. I find myself questioning things now instead of just processing them as a requirement. I guess I am a doubting-Thomas now.

:cool:

[Hope 98]

Sorry about that last reply, I hope it didn't trigger anyone. It's just that the forgiveness topic was used on so many of us as a requirement by our former abusers. So I think it just throws up a red flag for me

:cool:

It's understandable really. I got really tired of being accused of an "unforgiving and bitter spirit". :mad: I think I only started to heal once I understood that forgiveness didn't require continued submission to abuse. It also didn't make everything better right away. I can't tell you how many times I was told that if I'd only forgive I wouldn't hurt anymore. :confused:

I often thought of how the Samaritan that helped the man who was attacked by robbers and ignored by priests and Levites, never once concerned himself with whether or not the victim forgave his attackers. I think he new that his injuries needed time and attention to heal. Sometimes it seems that people forget that.

anyway ...

[Reg]

It's understandable really. I got really tired of being accused of an "unforgiving and bitter spirit". :mad: I think I only started to heal once I understood that forgiveness didn't require continued submission to abuse. It also didn't make everything better right away. I can't tell you how many times I was told that if I'd only forgive I wouldn't hurt anymore. :confused:


Forgiveness is hard work and it is personal. Anyone who accuses another of being bitter and unforgiving doesn't understand the process of forgiveness. They are just parrots repeating well-worn phrases with no heart or feeling.

Remember one thing about forgiveness. It is not a one time thing. It is a process that takes time. Once the decision is made, the process begins.

Forgiving is the only way to be fair to yourself. It is like carrying around unwanted baggage. It is a weight we constantly bear. To put down those bags and weights makes our journey much lighter requiring less effort - not more.

Not to do so is a loser's game. It is the ultimate frustration because it brings you more and repeated pain than you got in the first place. The only way to heal the pain that will not heal itself is to forgive the person who hurt you. You don't have to tell them, but you do need to tell your heart. It is a personal thing, not a expected requirement that the other person demands or expects. It is the medicine that you must take to heal yourself. The venom of unforgiveness will eventually take it's toll on the one who is infected by it. Get the venom out.

The barb on the end of the hook is the unforgiveness that keeps us attached to the other person. We need to get the hook out and let go so that they can no longer control our lives or hurt us with the hook.

When you let go of the hook that attaches you to the wrongdoer and the wrong done to you by them you are free from their influence, pain and control over you. It is like you cut a malignant tumour out of your life.

We will remain in the prison cage of unforgiveness that keeps us a prisoner until we turn the key of Forgiveness in the lock on the door that opens it and gives us back our freedom. When you set the prisoner free with that key you realize that the real prisoner was you indeed. True freedom from that cage can only be realized when your heart receives the balm of forgiveness only God can give you. It is a part of His Divine Nature.

Not to forgive imprisons us in the past and locks out all potential for change.

Forgiveness is about us and for us. It not about the other person.The only person we can change is ourselves.

Try this little change on the Serenity Prayer.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, Courage to change the person I can and the wisdom to know that person is me.

[Florence]

"Bitter spirit . . . " Boy do I know that line! "Unforgiving" was not something I was accused of - you can't be accused of being "unforgiving" if the person/people who are tearing you apart believe they have nothing to be forgiven for!

So many times, all I really needed was a heartfelt acknowledgement of the pain that has been inflicted on me and an apology. The last time my senior pastor spoke to me, it was to justify his position by claiming that he was unaware of what his staff person had done. What I had expected from him was something like, "Ellen, I am so sorry we handled that so poorly. What can I do now to help you through this difficult time?" Instead, I got, "I have no idea what is going on. I have left it entirely up to ***** and I have stayed completely out of it.

Interestingly enough, what he didn't realize is that I could prove his lie about being innocent and that the hurt caused was a direct result of his directive to this staff person in how to handle the situation. Still, all I wanted was an acknowledgement that I had been hurt and an apology.

As I think about it, I don't even find it hard to forgive without an apology. What I find hard is to know that there are people who preach forgiveness who will never forgive me for things real or imagined.

Florence

[Voyager]

Not to forgive imprisons us in the past and locks out all potential for change.

Does that mean Jesus will be imprisoned in the past until He forgives Satan?

:confused:

[diva]

The Annals of Internal Medicine recently reported a study that found injured patients were 50 percent less likely to seek legal advice when an error was disclosed and there was an apology than when there was no disclosure or apology.
Wouldn't it be nice if church personnel realized that it would be a big help to disclose the error and apologize?

[Beloved of God]

I believe that we also need to forgive God. I was shocked when I first heard this a few years back. I certainly had never heard it in church before. It is something that is not just said.
Actually, I was reminded of this this AM as I read "Streams in the Desert".
I admit that I still have great difficulty understanding why He allows such suffering in the world and in my own life. I know that Him could stop the pain but sometimes, when He does not, I attack Him in my heart (and sometimes with my words).
I am still working on this issue and I would appreciate prayers in this area. When I read the gospels I know that many of the Lord's disciples had great doubt. Even John the Baptist. Jesus reassured his beloved disciple that He was Messiah but He never explained to John why John was in prison and had was martyred (sp?) after only about 6 months of public ministry. Jesus' reply to him was "Blessed is the one who is not offended in me". Many of the Lord's disciples did walk away from Him and were offended because of some of the things that He said to them or allowed to happen.
I have been very close in the past of walking away from Him because I donn't understand many of His ways that allow hurt to come in my life. And it is only His grace that has kept me from doing so. When the Lord asked the apostles if they were going to walk away from Him, also they said something like "Lord, where would we go?" We have noone else to turn to." And it is that realization that He uses in my heart to bring me back to Him when my heart gets cold to Him.
Ultimately, I must remember that He is the Creator and I am the creature. It is hard to accept sometimes (I hated it when I first heard it) but I have great peace in my heart when I do accept it. Like Tim says (I am) "Not God".

Still, Beloved of God........ Thanks for listening. I love to write but I know that I do it too much on the forums when I get going! :o
P.S. I would appreciate prayers in this area as I still struggle with it!

[Voyager]

I just prayed and told the Lord that if He would forgive Satan, I will forgive my former abusive pastor. Then we can both be loosed from the prisons of our past. I'll let you know when He answers.

;)

[Voyager]

I just prayed and told the Lord that if He would forgive Satan, I will forgive my former abusive pastor. Then we can both be loosed from the prisons of our past. I'll let you know when He answers.

.... well, He answered me. He said that I should take a number and He's going to have to get back to me on this one.

:rolleyes:

[Voyager]

I know some of you think I am being "blashpemous", but I'm really not trying to be. Maybe a little sarcastic. It's so easy to always follow the religious doctrines that have been embedded into our society. "Forgive or you won't be forgiven" is one of the first fear-based, manipulative, guilt-infested religious rules that I ever swallowed as a young soul who was scared of burning in brimstone for all eternity. Forgive or God will not forgive you. Heaven or hell. Turn or burn. Get right or get left.

Please, Reg, don't take any of this personal. I am just ranting. It's not meant to try to knock your faith or anyone else's. I just find myself questioning the restrictive and legalistic form-letter-style doctrinal rules that I was brainwashed with. I've found that this forum is a good place to be free to do this without getting cut-off or excommuncated.

:cool:

[Beloved of God]

No, 'Voyager, you are not being "blasphmous" (sp?). You are just being real with us and it helps us all be more real with each other. It is OK to be right where you are now.................. ( IMHO ) :cool:

[Reg]

Does that mean Jesus will be imprisoned in the past until He forgives Satan?

:confused:

John, where did you come up with that idea?

Satan can't be forgiven. His character and destiny is already set in stone. He has been judged and can't change.

We are not in the same category. We can change. It's our choice.

[Reg]

Please, Reg, don't take any of this personal. I am just ranting. It's not meant to try to knock your faith or anyone else's. I just find myself questioning the restrictive and legalistic form-letter-style doctrinal rules that I was brainwashed with. I've found that this forum is a good place to be free to do this without getting cut-off or excommuncated.

:cool:

That's OK John.

This has nothing to do to do with doctrinal rules. It has to do with our healing.

[Savedbygrace]

Wow, what a thread!

What I am about to post is not doctrinal, it is truth as I have experienced it.

We have all been hurt, some of us more than others. We have all experienced abuse, again some more than others. For me, I have chosen to forgive my husband for abandoning me. I have chosen to forgive my old church and pastor and his wife for the way the hurt me. I have chosen to forgive them, because the alternative is a personal hell I have lived in for far too long. When I am allowing myself to "indulge" in unforgiveness and resentment, my thinking is held captive by it. Not forgiving, not letting it go, not releasing that other person to God, keeps the abuse and abandonment alive and well. I can then choose to relive it over and over again, time and time again. Each time re-experiencing the hurt, disappointment, & agony.

It is a matter of free will. I can choose today to live in a state of resentment, or I can release my offenders to God, and free myself from the bondage.

Really, forget doctrine, forget all of that stuff. What do we have to gain by holding onto our anger and hurt? Does it make us happier, more joyous, more peaceful to hold on and to not forgive? It is not an easy process, and YES I have to revist it on a regular occasion, but on the days when i can SURRENDER it ALL to GOD, I have peace, joy, and love in my heart. What a way to live!!! Wish I could do it more regularly!!! But that would go against my sinful nature and desire to remain a victim and in constant emotional pain :eek:

Forgiving our abusers...IT DEFIES LOGIC!!! But it works. It gives me peace, joy and love where only hate, anger and resentment had previously resided. How??? I have no idea! I do not have to know. I am not God. (Wheeeeew :D ) Can I prove to others that it works? NO, they will have to experience that for themselves.

Today I am going to choose to defy logic and follow Jesus' example of love and forgiveness. By the way, it sure doesn't mean I would go back to my abusive church, but I can release them to God, and no longer waste my time thinking the "how dare they" and the "How wrong they are" and the "and they call themselves Christians"

Who am I to judge? I do not know a person's heart, nor do i care to waste my time trying to know it. I will again, leave that up to the creator of the universe, the alpha and the omega, the one who sees everything, while I can only see such a tiny little part of the picture.

I love you all. Voyager, your feelings are so understandable. Do not feel you have to apologize for them. You have not said anything "wrong". You can always come here and rant or rave or cry or scream and recover........

All of us will in His time.

Trish

[Willow]

Sorry about that last reply, I hope it didn't trigger anyone. It's just that the forgiveness topic was used on so many of us as a requirement by our former abusers. So I think it just throws up a red flag for me. Maybe in our desire to choose for ourselves for a change, we toss aside a few things that are not so bad - like mandatory forgiveness. Forgiveness is good, mandatory is not good. I don't believe that God wants us to throw away our right to evaluate situations. I am a firm believer that salvation is not by works. If it were, then all doctrine would be mandatory and no one would measure up. Then we have the verse that says if we don't forgive, we won't be forgiven. That's why this is a hopeless debate for me. No one ever wins it, they just debate back and forth forever.

Obedience to religious doctrine just doesn't come automatically for me anymore like it once did. I find myself questioning things now instead of just processing them as a requirement. I guess I am a doubting-Thomas now.

:cool:

I dunno... forgiving is a bit different to me than what you are describing. It's not going back and saying... "it's okay" to my abusers. It's more like moving on and leaving it behind me the best way I can. The only way I knew to do that was to move away from that geographical area. It worked great and I'm much better for it. If I hadn't moved away... I would have remained affected by the church and my decision to leave and the effect it had on me in that community. That church has a big pull in that community. At this point, I think I could look the pastor in the eye and not be shaken up one bit. That's how I know I've forgiven... he no longer has power over me. So... my definition of "forgiveness" might be a little different than the standard.

Does this make sense??

[Hope 98]

I think we really need to stop pushing the forgiveness button.

Voyager - how would it make you feel if someone told you that you didn't have to forgive your former pastor? The truth of the matter is that you don't. Really.

NO matter how you look at it, this "directive" to forgive somehow seems to leave the reality of your wounds out of the picture.

A person who has lost a leg really can't walk. Eventually get around with the help of a wheelchair or "wooden" leg, and they do the best that they can. It hurts and it takes time.

Let yourself off the hook.

[Willow]

It's a really deep topic... and touchy.

[Ontheroad]

Boy, did I ever get the lecture on forgiveness from my pastor as well, only it was always twisted. He would say things like "Whatever it is you think that I did that is bothering you, you need to forgive." He would never actually admit he'd done anything.

However, he could get angry over the smallest things (often the receiver of his rage didn't even know what was making him angry) when he talked with people: a sigh at the wrong time, a wrong look on one's face, staring at him too much, not keeping eye contact enough, not talking, sitting, or looking "humble" or "teachable" enough, a wrong tone of voice, waiting too long to talk, not waiting long enough....you name it. He could slam doors, throw books accross the room, yell at the top of his voice, hang up on the phone, rant from the pulpit, etc., and we were expected to take it and excuse it as him just being "emotional" at the time.

It was so twisted and sick, and we were always afraid of the next incident that would set him off. Then after the next explosion, we could usually count the days until the next sermon where the errant behavior would be a topic of the sermon. Often, he wouldn't say the individual's name, but would allude to it in such a way that it was easy to guess who he meant. Of course, sometimes he DID say our names out loud.

The sickest thing about all of this? Most of us who bore the brunt of the worst of his anger were people in counseling with him.

Now all that being said, for the things he did to, I do believe I have the responsibilty to forgive him. HOWEVER, I don't believe that forgiveness means reconciiation. I believe we can (and should with God's help) forgive an abuser, but not be in relationship with them. God calls us to forgive, not become emotional punching bags again. Especially if they never ask forgiveness (which most don't).

[Kerrin]

WOW, it is so great to know others have been so badly abused and struggle with the whole forgiveness thing just like me. I feel my whole life has been one big apology that is never quite good enough. a christian for 10 years, thought I was finally safe, I don't know if this pain inflicted by my church is any worse than the physical and emotional abuse of my ex-husband. I flip flop from one day to the next. I know it is a choice. I just pray I can get to that place of complete peace and be able to <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=trust&v=56">trust</a> again.
I like the idea of geographical change and i have toyed with that idea. <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=Moving&v=56">Moving</a> away from where i grew up. I thought maybe it was running away but i think a fresh start may bring some healing.
I stopped going to church amonth ago and i really miss the worship and fellowship, but my old church is like a hive of community gossip, so it doesn't leave many alternate options. ( i don't hear from any of my so-called christian family anyway).
thank you all for your words of encouragement.
Kerrin, <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=australia&v=56">australia</a>.

[Kerrin]

For so long i have sat in silence, having learned the hard way not to question my spiritual authority. I was "stripped" of my "position" within in the church I attended and, relegated to the backrow, I sat in silence for the better part of a year thinking that if i repented enough, forgave, maybe repented again, even asked for forgiveness, had "deliverence" from the jezebel spirit, (that I supposedly was operating, or it through me???).Anyway, I'm repented out. I now realize nothing will bring redemption to my sad self because i need to accept it from Him. It is the lonliest road I am walking as I stumble along and learn. My mistakes but mostly the terrible things this "christian" family have accused me of, I am finally feeling some freedom. It is so liberating to have permission just to express apoint of view without being told "you need ministry", "not submissive enough", disobedient".
Thank you for all your precious insights. Where would we be if we dared not question?
I think the bravest of us are those who dare to step out and question the religious systems of today, because I know most of us, if we were wrong would accept our error. Where I come from you do your duty and keep your mouth shut. i wasn't made that way. But if I'm wrong i will admit it. Thank you all for your insights. I pray I get to the States again one day to visit your great country.
Love and Bless you all. Please keep enlightening me as this forum thing is new to me, so I need to learn the ropes!!

[Willow]

Kerrin!!!! I'm so glad you are here! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for speaking up. Please do continue to share. In being affirmed, you have affirmed me and what I've expressed. Hey... There is an article on the web that I found most fascinating. It really affirmed me in my choice to leave the church. The web site it is on has a lot of articles that have helped me. I'll give you the link. *HUGS* to ya my downunder friend!

http://www.reality.org.nz/index.php
http://www.reality.org.nz/articleindex.php

Amy

[Hope 98]

Thanks for the link Willow. I checked out that site and saw some intersting titles!

[Willow]

Glad you enjoyed the link Hope :)
Some of the articles have really ministered to me there!

[Florence]

[QUOTE=Kerrin]For so long i have sat in silence, having learned the hard way not to question my spiritual authority. I was "stripped" of my "position" within in the church I attended and, relegated to the backrow, I sat in silence for the better part of a year thinking that if i repented enough, forgave, maybe repented again, even asked for forgiveness, had "deliverence" from the jezebel spirit, QUOTE]

Once again, I am struck by the number of folks here whose experience seems to mirror my own. Kerrin, I have thought about your post over and over and I am wondering how many more of us have had this same experience of being stripped of our position? (This happened at my first abusive church.) And for those of us who have sat in that back row trying to repent enough, forgive enough, etc., did it ever "work"? Was anyone out there ever restored? (I'm guessing not or you wouldn't be on this forum reading this.)

Now, it's a little different - I wasn't "stripped" of a position, which in a way is helpful because I still have my staff position in a neighboring church. But I was rejected for a position at my own church (already told that story) and told I don't measure up - but, hey, if I just work hard enough, try hard enough, give enough, maybe someday I'll be allowed to "volunteer."

Right . . .

So, anybody out there have a "happy ending" story of forgiveness, reconcilliation, and restoration - where you actually DID finally measure up?

[Hope 98]

Now, it's a little different - I wasn't "stripped" of a position, which in a way is helpful because I still have my staff position in a neighboring church. But I was rejected for a position at my own church (already told that story) and told I don't measure up - but, hey, if I just work hard enough, try hard enough, give enough, maybe someday I'll be allowed to "volunteer."

Right . . .

So, anybody out there have a "happy ending" story of forgiveness, reconcilliation, and restoration - where you actually DID finally measure up?

I don't know how close I am to the "ending", but your story sounds familiar up to a point. I am a church secretary at one church while I attend another. I was also rejected for a position at the church I attend because I disagree with a specific point of the church's doctrine. The church where I work doesn't particularly address that specific issue.

I had a wonderful discussion with the pastor where I work just today. Yes - I measure up! But I didn't need him to tell me that. I've finally learned to trust my own ability to hear from God first-hand. It WAS nice not to have to argue the point with this pastor, even better to be encouraged to keep believing!

Reconcilliation? That doesn't even seem remotely likely. But it's a whole lot less of an issue for ME.

I pray that you'll recognize God's acceptance of you and that God doesn't measure - he just keeps loving you.

[Willow]

on measuring up...

I am in a job at a university where I measure up. They are soooo happy with me. I drink the positive feedback like wine and get drunk on it. It's so different than anything I ever had before. I really do need the strokes. It's a little scarey how much I need positive feedback and smiles and friendly comments. After 5 years there, I am finally beginning to settle in and be a little less vigilant. Testing the waters... yes... I am still very much accepted there. I even got to the point that I can go to their parties and participate in social functions without panicking. That's a minor miracle. I never have been able to do "social" functions at church. I always had to be working hard and fast to keep from interactions that would make me panic.

Anyway... still haven't found healing at church. My workplace has been my healing platform. I do still interact with my former pastor. I sent his wife a mourning plant when her cat died. The pastor told me she cried her eyes out. I guess it touched her. He wants me to visit. I tell him it makes me too sad. I haven't been back for a visit. They never even told me goodbye... how can I go and say hello when I didn't get to say goodbye? It's too hard.

[Florence]

When I left my first abusive church, I wasn't sure I could ever attend a church again - let alone serve in one, whether volunteer or paid staff. Nine months later, my phone rang and it was the president of the local Bible college offering me a job sight unseen. It wasn't "church" but it was working with a whole faculty full of pastors and teaching and mentoring students called to ministry.

Like you, Willow, it took five years before I began to really feel like I was a part of their world - and they, too, were constantly telling me how ecstatic they were to have me. During that five years, I had several job offers from churches, but knew that for the time being, I was in the right place. Oh, I served in the church we came to call "home" during that time - another story too long to tell or retell - but suffice it to say that while I did experience a measure of healing, I also experienced quite a bit of condemnation because I would express concern and ask questions. It didn't really seem all that bad at the time. (It's only been my experience in the past few months - as well as the experiences of others - that helped me to see the red flags that indicate an abusive situation.) At any rate, about 2 years ago I finally realized that my service in the church was done more out of the obligation I felt because of risidual stuff from my former church. So, I gave up serving in the church completely and made the college my "ministry." Then the call came from the church where I currently work.

With the help of that college, I had finally come to a place of being confident that the very things I was teaching my students about ministry I was ready to do myself. So, I left the college about a year and a half ago to do the very thing I had told God I would never do - work for a church.

It was about Auguest that I realized that this church would never be my "home" and that God was calling me back to my home church - not necessarily as a staff member, but as a part of that body. At the exact same time, a position that matches my current job opened up and I applied for it. You see, I'm not independently wealthy and this kind of job is so perfect for me and my family - flexible hours, enough money that we don't have to apply for heat assistance, etc. (You don't get that at the local supermarket.) That's when it was made very clear to me that because of my earlier questioning and expressing of my "professional" opinion, I was considered unfit for not only a staff position, but to serve in my own home church even as a volunteer.

One of the things that baffles me is that the senior pastor strongly encouraged me to take the job at the church where I work. I was good enough to go across town, but not good enough for the place that I thought was "home."

I still believe that God is calling me out of my current job, but until He provides something else that will pay the heating bills, I will be staying where I am. So I wait with patient trust.

Florence

[Reg]

Reviving this thread for those newer here.