"Church" vs. Christ

[Clynn]

This is something I'm trying to work out.
Your comments and opinions are greatly appreciated.
When I say "church" I am talking about local assemblies that hold services in buildings.
What I am seeing is people having a relationship with the church building, their activities, their leaders and so forth.
I thought that belief in Christ Jesus would free us and give us more life, not more meetings and the such.
I see people (especially in my city) having more faith in the church and its' leaders than they have in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I believe that this is some of the source of the problem in the Body of Christ.
All comments welcomed.
Because of the Cross,
C.Lynn

[Anna Marta]

Hi,

Glad you brought this up. We saw the same kinds of tihngs and thought we were wierd. I then found a web site and read a book on it called "So You Don't Want to go to Chuch Anymore". The book can be read on the web site as a pdf file or downloaded or purchased in book form. It gave me a new perspective. I then visited the other web site sponsored by the same people and found lots of others in the same boat.

We have been in contact with Wayne and Dave and they have given us some good advice and direction.

Hope this can help you too.

http://www.thegodjourney.com/
http://www.lifestream.org/

Love
Anna Marta

[douglaslewis777]

This is one of those church "traditions" that has found it's way into the church.

We are the chuch. The very definition of church is not a "building", but the people. WE are the church. You know this is one of the very reasons us church folks can depend on the pastor to do outreach for us when we should be doing outreach for God ourselves. Christians (me included) have become lazy as such. We have depended on the office of the "pastor" tooooooooooo much. That office shouldn't exist the way it does anyway. Because it does, we think all spiritual "stuff" should go through "the" man of God. We are the children of God. Why do we try to put all of the responsibility on one person anyway? That really seems like laziness on our part. WE ARE THE CHURCH. The fact that people think the church is exclusive to one group of people at one building is insane. Why do we allow this to go on???? Why is is taught? Why is it believed? What we really need in church is an overhaul... so we can get some of these false thinking patterns out of the "church."

Just the fact that we are talking about it here is good though.. This is a GREAT start. I pray that more of us begin to discuss this. Then maybe we can get some people to believe we are really the children of God. See, if we can't even get fundamental things like this resolved, how in the world are we going to deal with weighty maters that those that are lost have issues with. Hate to say it, but we as Christians have allowed these fallacies to go on for toooooooo long. And... yes, this is why there is so much corruption in the church. Church leaders run their church like it is a business, competing with the next church down the street. The church that wins is the one who holds on to the most "MEMBERS" and has the biggest buildings. This is COMPLETELY CRAZY!!!!

My church doesn't even have us sign up as members. We just come & worship. We just notify the pastor that we are now worshiping here & give contact info if wanted. There is no "formal" process. We now have 3 services this way & the church is wonderful. This is probably closer to what needs to happen in churches then pastors keeping a roll of their "members" when we get saved, we are immediately members of Christ. I am not a member of any building. I am a member of God's family that's it! Church leaders think that "they" own you. They don't. God does. This is one of the myths that keeps people locked into a particular ministry and not question practices. Because they think that God can't possibly be anywhere else. It's a shame really.

[Carmen]

I think that Christians are the church. Just two that come together to encourage, teach, support, feed....each other are already doing church, no matter if this is outside, in a home or public building, or even online, although I think that being there personally is preferable. Using the word to describe only a building that some Christians meet in is a misnomer in my opinion.

[hornblower]

I have never thought a building had anything to do with Jesus. Never! I never thought a 'man' had the answers for me I always knew it would be jesus I had to go too because the word says Jesus said call no man your teacher just Him and only Him. I love preaching. I dont know what it is about it but I loved it. I would hear someone speak and if it spoke to the inside of me somehow I was hooked.
I have found that this also was not wise because the inside of me is codependent so I have to trust only Jesus again. I have to literally cry out to Him and believe Him and walk it all out. Its hard work. I believe it is the cross. He said we would be persecuted so why am I surprised when it happens I should know this is the way it will always be as long as people are blinded it will happen. Including me!
When I got so hurt this last time I swear I thought i could not breathe the pain was so horrendous in my heart. Ive never openly said this here but its time for me to just be me. I really think it was satanic. I think satan is out to get me big time. I think he was to begin with. I think hes after all of us. He hates us violently because God loves us so very much.
I dont know what to tell those of you that dont believe in satan. I never really had a problem with believing the story about Jesus dying on a cross for me, hey thats cool so im forgiven well I dont think hes got the right person but whatever????? Thats what I thought before i came to know Him the way I do now.
When the experience happened to me first thing i realised for sure is that satan is very real. Im serious I just knew he was, deep down inside I knew it. My family called me names and said i was like beyond stupid but no matter I knew once i was blind but now I could see and i knew he was trying to kill me my whole life.
I never could understand why? Im basically no one. I am not going to have some huge ministry I dont want one i dont believe in them. So whats this about I ask?
I think there are a lot of things we have no idea about.
I think its much bigger than we could ever imagine it to be. Maybe .........and im just imagining this I sure dont know much...........but maybe God loves us more than we know, maybe we are very very important in ways we dont yet see? Maybe we could be like i am sitting here alone just wandering............and that is huge to Him! Maybe its exactly what He wants and all He has ever wanted.

He doesnt care about money, doesnt care about popularity or fame or power, after all why would He? Hes God isnt He? He doesnt care what sex we are or what color we are or if we went to a huge school and have a lot of education read a lot or have a big house. Hes not impressed with our talents or our minds. Maybe its simple. Maybe He just loves us because He does! Because He is! Thats all there is to it!
Maybe we are not going to do anything big or little or anything at all, we are just going to be His kids and He is our father the good Father we didnt have.

Nobody ever wants it to be simple thats why I think........maybe it is after all?

[Jerry]

This is something I'm trying to work out.
Your comments and opinions are greatly appreciated.
When I say "church" I am talking about local assemblies that hold services in buildings.
What I am seeing is people having a relationship with the church building, their activities, their leaders and so forth.
I thought that belief in Christ Jesus would free us and give us more life, not more meetings and the such.
I see people (especially in my city) having more faith in the church and its' leaders than they have in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I believe that this is some of the source of the problem in the Body of Christ.
All comments welcomed.
Because of the Cross,
C.Lynn
An astute observation ;)
Love Jerry

[Clynn]

Hornblower, I agree with your comment that it is simple.
I think that's why we miss it.
I love the Lord Jesus and after I was devestated in the local assembly I was attending, I realized I was the one who idolized the leaders. Yes, some of the teaching wasn't right and they did point to themselves more than they did Christ, but when my eyes were opened, I began to cry out to the Lord also.
Jesus is all that I need.
Someone made the statement about "loving preaching."
I am one also that loves the preached word but I too am careful about what I hear.
I love to fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ but I will no longer bow to the "traditions of man" in order to fellowship or love the Lord.
Please keep this post going because I believe healing begans at the point where we can get honest with ourselves.
I have come a long way in the last two years.
My friends still think I'm angry because I will no longer "be a member of their building."
This is far from the truth. If they want to keep going and be controlled and manipulated, fine. I'm not mad because they are there. That's their choice.
But I have made a decision for my personal life, being controlled and abused has nothing to do with my relationship with Jesus. There is no more room for legalism!
Because of the Cross,
C. Lynn

[Jo Jo]

This is so good Clynn:
I love the Lord Jesus and after I was devastated in the local assembly I was attending, I realized I was the one who idolized the leaders. Yes, some of the teaching wasn't right and they did point to themselves more than they did Christ, but when my eyes were opened, I began to cry out to the Lord also.
Jesus is all that I need.

I realized this about me too... my eyes had moved off of God and on to the leadership. I was serving them and not God. I came to church to see them and have them do the leading, feeding, etc... The spiritual weather came from them.

It was such a wonderful relief to get out of there and get back my relationship with God. To find out he was waiting there all the time. Even though there was a lot of hurt in the process of all that, there was also, immediate relief and lightness from getting out of the wrong balance of things.

[SpinningHead]

This is something I'm trying to work out.
Your comments and opinions are greatly appreciated.
When I say "church" I am talking about local assemblies that hold services in buildings.
What I am seeing is people having a relationship with the church building, their activities, their leaders and so forth.
I thought that belief in Christ Jesus would free us and give us more life, not more meetings and the such.
I see people (especially in my city) having more faith in the church and its' leaders than they have in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I believe that this is some of the source of the problem in the Body of Christ.
All comments welcomed.
Because of the Cross,
C.Lynn

No comments.
Just positive validation.
You nail it!