Ministry Of The Spirit

[Reg]

This is a followup to the post I sent to Florence re the Megachurch thread. It is mainly just scriptures I put together.

MINISTRY OF THE SPIRIT Not the Law.


John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are *spirit*, and they are life.

2 Cor 3:3 [it] having been made plain that you are the epistle of Christ, ministered by us, not having been written with ink, but with the *Spirit* of the living God; not on tablets of stone, but in fleshly tablets of [the] heart.

Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O My God; and Your law [is] within My heart.

Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.

Eze 36:27 And I will put My *Spirit* within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall keep My judgments and do [them].

Jer 31:33 but this [shall be] the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: *After those days*, says the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Heb 10:16 "This [is] the covenant that I will make with them *after those days*, says the Lord; I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,"

2 Cor 3:7 But if *the ministry of death*, having been engraved in letters in stone was with glory (so that the sons of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses because of the glory of his face), which ministry was to be done away;

What was the Ministry of Death?

2 Cor 3:8 shall not the ministry of the *Spirit* be with more glory?


Just what is the Ministry of the *Spirit*?

Finally......

Gal 4:21 ¶ Tell me, those desiring to be under Law, do you not hear the Law?

Read the rest of Gal 4 to verse 26...... What is it saying to U?

Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem [from] above is free, who is the mother of us all.

I'm not going to attempt to comment on that part of scripture. U see, I am going to allow the Ministry of the *Spirit* do that for me. :D It has MORE glory.

[Voyager]

The phrase "ministry of the spirit" was used commonly in my former abusive church. If I were to attend a church that used this phrase, I'm afraid I would bolt for the door. For some reason I equate it with the phrase "manipulation of the sheep". I guess you could say it's a trigger for me. I couldn't even bring myself to read the Scriptures you posted Reg. I'm sure they are good. I've just become so calloused to Bible verses and religious phrases. I guess I'd much rather have a group of sincere people who sincerely love each other as opposed to a group of people babbling Scripture verses who would turn on you like vultures the moment you get "out of line". I don't lack the presence of God or the ministry of the Spirit. What I lack has to do with people, not God. I hope that makes sense.

:(

[Voyager]

Let me try to clarify what I said in my previous post. God hasn't wounded me - people have. So, when people come to me and want to "minister from the Spirit" I am very skeptical. I can get "ministry from God" at home. But when people tell me that they are called to minister for God, and they want to minister to me - I don't believe it. I see it as a threat. I see it as potential rejection, shaming, brainwashing, and manipulation.

I'm sure that your Scriptures tell a story about how good and merciful God is. It's a shame that a group of people have so wounded my soul that I am totally incapable of even reading them. Please don't take it personal.

:(

[Satscout]

My biggest problem with both the "legalists" and the "freedom lovers" is that it is too easy to ignore the most telling signs... "you shall know them by their fruits" so to speak... the point isn't whether or not God gives grace but whether someone has truly accepted it and is allowing God to change the heart. If one thinks that "grace allows (us) to sin more", then s/he hasn't truly experienced that grace to begin with. And if one thinks holding to lots of rules the legalists draw up will make him/her somehow more holy, s/he also has missed the boat.

I have noticed one of the best places to hide is in plain sight. In either a licentious or a restrictive atmosphere, the faker can go with the flow. But in an atmosphere of true grace, s/he will stick out like a sore thumb.

*shrug* Just my observation...

Sharon

[Willow]

Faking it... I wonder why people fake it when the real thing is so good? I mean... Why would I want a picture of an ice cream cone when I could actually have an ice cream cone? It just got me thinking.

[ex-shep]

Faking it... I wonder why people fake it when the real thing is so good? I mean... Why would I want a picture of an ice cream cone when I could actually have an ice cream cone? It just got me thinking.

I was wondering why I had a hankering for Baskin and Robbins :)

[Satscout]

Faking it... I wonder why people fake it when the real thing is so good? I mean... Why would I want a picture of an ice cream cone when I could actually have an ice cream cone? It just got me thinking.
There are as many reasons as there are people who do it. I was thinking of my brother. When we were growing up, he "went with the flow". We were in a number of very dysfunctional churches, the last of which we were all at together a Nazarene church with a school attached. He was in the first graduating class, seven people. They had a second graduating class the following year, after my parents put my sister and me in a different church and school. The other school collapsed after its second graduating class. It no longer exists. That church has undergone a lot of transition since then. I don't know much about its current status.

My brother, after the rest of us left, insisted on staying with this church. He was even on church council for a while (remember, he just graduated so were talking about a 17? 18? year old on church council???) and I remember he missed a meeting and was thereby stuck with the responsibility of running VBS - recruiting his two sisters to teach since NOBODY wanted to help...

Since then, he has denied the faith altogether. He refers to Christians in the third person, and doesn't listen to what he refers to as "cramming stuff down his throat". He won't let anyone talk to his daughters about faith either. Drives my mom crazy, that. His wife simply doesn't care. Such things don't show up on her radar. That's part of what attracted him to her in the first place. :rolleyes: :(

The only reason he listens to me is I grant him a measure of respect.

So.... there are lots of reasons one might "fake it", given the circumstances and the people involved. My brother probably did it to make my parents happy. For someone else, it might be a spouse, or their kids, or someone they have to be with all the time at work, or who knows. The scary thing is, some of these folks come to the conclusion that walking down an aisle as a teen might be enough to get them into heaven, when they never let the "real thing" - the grace we speak of - make it to their hearts.

Makes me pray harder...

Sharon

[Florence]

Let me try to clarify what I said in my previous post. God hasn't wounded me - people have. So, when people come to me and want to "minister from the Spirit" I am very skeptical. I can get "ministry from God" at home. But when people tell me that they are called to minister for God, and they want to minister to me - I don't believe it. I see it as a threat. I see it as potential rejection, shaming, brainwashing, and manipulation.

I'm sure that your Scriptures tell a story about how good and merciful God is. It's a shame that a group of people have so wounded my soul that I am totally incapable of even reading them. Please don't take it personal.

:(


Voyager,
Very well said - In my first abusive church, I so wanted to follow Jesus and submit to His will for my life. I found myself in a place where the pastor knew the scriptures inside and out and could use the exact same scripture for opposite ends - very twisted (I could write a book on that alone.) After we left that church, we read the by-laws more closely and it literally said that the pastor's word was "equal" to that of scripture - WOW! :eek:

After leaving that church, I became a voracious student of scripture (currently working on a Master of Arts in Religion) and could probably go toe to toe with anyone on any scripture. (I could easily do what was done to me and use many scriptures in any way necessary to prove whatever point I want to make.) I wanted/needed to know if this man had "a leg to stand on." I have to curb my tendency to wield the two-edged sword of scripture in such a way that it leaves those who spew scripture at me a bit bloody.

Anyway, for the longest time, I felt that God was the one who was truly hurting me. But, over the years, I have come to realize that it wasn't God at all that hurt me - it was people. The pastor, the elders, the people at that church who blindly followed and participated in the abusiveness. In my current church, I don't live with the baggage of thinking that it is God who is out to get me. I know it's people.

One of the things I have recognized that I have to curb within myself is to preach the very things that were so wounding to me - like telling people to analyze themselves to determine if they are bearing "fruit" (translation: measuring up). Some people (myself included) have been so beat up by being told their fruit is bad, spoiled, or non-existent, that they are horribly wounded. Is it my place to tell someone that? I think I'll leave the fruit production and quality control to God.

Blessings,
Florence

[Willow]

Good words Florence. After all... when pointing the finger, the other 4 are pointing back the person doing the pointing. :p

[Willow]

I think my fruit is fermented with all the beer I drank last summer!
:p

[Willow]

Ice cream??? Did someone mention ice cream???
:p

[Florence]

Anybody got a recipe for Baked Alaska Flambe? Make mine low fat and sugar free! :p :p :p :cool:

[Willow]

Baked Alaska Flambe? Sounds interesting!!!
I'm cooking Bay Scallops in british double devon cream and cheddar cheese with Orange peel flavoring. In about 10 minutes it will be ready to pour over some angel hair pasta. Anybody wanna come over to eat dinner? Bring some asparagus. That's the only thing I'm missing.
:p

[Willow]

* 1 whole sponge cake or angelfood, slice ½ inch thick
* 2 oz Brandy or other liqueur
* 6 large egg whites
* ¾ cup splenda
* 1 Tbs vanilla extract
* 2 qts low fat ice cream or sorbet

Line a small bowl with the cake. Sprinkle it with brandy and add the ice cream. Cover with remaining cake. Make meringue by beating egg whites, adding 1 tablespoon of sugar at a time. Finish by adding the vanilla. Invert cake ice-cream onto an oven proof dish or platter and cover with the meringue. If you want to be more festive, use a pastry bag with a star tip. Place Alaska in a pre-heated 375 degree oven for 5-6 minutes until the meringue has slightly browned. Remove from the oven and splash with high proof brandy or rum, dim lights and ignite!!

[Florence]

Sounds great! We've got dessert with the ice cream, the liquor (though it sounds like you prefer beer :rolleyes: to Brandy), and I have some asparagus. Maybe Jerry could bring the wine and Diet Coke mentioned in another post :D

Florence

[Reg]

Sounds great! We've got dessert with the ice cream, the liquor (though it sounds like you prefer beer :rolleyes: to Brandy), and I have some asparagus. Maybe Jerry could bring the wine and Diet Coke mentioned in another post :D

Florence
I thought it was rather interesting how "The Ministry of the Spirit" ended up speaking to our stomachs. :)

Too bad we didn't live closer Amy. That recipe sounds delicious and makes my mouth water. :)

My apologies to Voyager. I should have made an exclaimer CAUTION: SCRIPTURE.

I understand how the use of scripture can be a trigger when it has been twisted and used to control us. The list I gave had to do with God ministering directly to us. NOT through any man.

What you were talking about John is the ministry of man. We have a vertical relationship with God not a horizontal one through any man. We do not need someone to interpret scripture for us. I pray for the day when we can see scripture in that light and allow God to speak to us through His word. There is comfort in the scriptures. Thankfully, God has been merciful to me and allowed me to break through much of my former distaste of certain scriptures and allow their true meaning to shine forth. I forget at times how much of a trigger they can be to some here. :(

If I mention any in the future, I will try to remember this.

[Jerry]

One of the things I have recognized that I have to curb within myself is to preach the very things that were so wounding to me - like telling people to analyze themselves to determine if they are bearing "fruit" (translation: measuring up). Some people (myself included) have been so beat up by being told their fruit is bad, spoiled, or non-existent, that they are horribly wounded. Is it my place to tell someone that? I think I'll leave the fruit production and quality control to God.

Blessings,
Florence

Fear not Florance,,,,,,,,,,your a good "Fig" ;)
Love Jerry

[Doug64]

Yeah, or cookies n cream.


I'll have frozen yugurt - fewer calories around the old waist line.

Doug :cool:

[Willow]

It was an interesting distraction from topic eh? My apologies. I did enjoy it though!

[Voyager]

It was an interesting distraction from topic eh? My apologies. I did enjoy it though!

Perhaps more "ministry of the spirit" is accomplished through trading recipes than by the traditional methods (laying on of hands, prophecy, word of knowledge). I guess we must be hearing from the spirit accurately.

:cool:

[ex-shep]

I did mention Baskin and Robbins in jest in another post.

[Willow]

ex-shep is my ice cream inspiration.