Back In the Enemy's Camp

[beginagainrose]

I am in Modesto this morning...the place where I found no grace. It has been 3 years yesterday since we laid down our lawsuit as the Lord instructed us. I was here on Friday also... on my way to the San Diego area to celebrate my oldest grandson's 18 Bday (we raised him 4 of his 18 yrs - I just had to be there!). But here is the strange part... I can FEEL the evil presence still hovering over this city! Both times when we exited off the freeway, I literally felt a change... I went to the huge Christian bookstore (owed by a church member) and the woman still there who had been such a prayer warrior for me during our legal battle acted like I was a leper! When I tried to talk to her..."What can I do for you? I am REALLY busy!...I've distanced myself from all that now"... They think the battle is over... but, being here?...I am reminded again: II Chron 20... The Battle is THE LORD'S!!! (My son still lives here and works for the city... it is his fiance's Bday today - We are all having dinner to celebrate and then EARLY in the morning...I AM OUTTA HERE!:D

[Anna Marta]

This is interesting to me. A friend of ours returned after having been in the states for 7 weeks over the summer. She said that she felt the oppression as soon as she stepped off the plane. She shared that she has never been able to feel "herself" since moving here.

I say this to illustrate that there must be some people who can and do sense these kinds of things.

Hope you're doing okay.
Love
Anna Marta

[leelees]

i live in the enemys camp it feels! the church is 2 mins walk and they all live in the same village, thats one reason i must get out of here! saw one of them on the bus stop, he said hello which was nice...just kept on walkin tho
i want to go where they cant get me! gotta somehow not let on where i went to when i go to a new church...gonna be interesting! my mate who had a worse time with them then i did went to the church im heading for so it should be ok.:o

[mary]

Yep, we all need to be "deprogrammed." We all need, for the sake of our mental and spiritual health, to be as far away from these people as possible. I can smell "evil" in a certain neighborhood around here, and that's about a 2- or 3-mile radius of the old "church." Sickening feeling; real stench about it. I just wish the county Dept. of Public Health could also smell it...:cool:

BTW, I've started a new blogspot. I don't have much of anything on it yet except for a picture of myself and a couple of other pertinent references. It's at www.revelation-214.blogspot.com. I don't have any plans for it just yet; I'm still thinking about what I might put on it. Other people put beautiful pictures of the areas they live in, etc. on their blogspots and, well, I don't live in a "vacation mecca," that's for sure. Whatever. We'll see...

Peace to all this evening,

mary

[SpinningHead]

I've said it before, I'll say it again...and again...and again...

It's so important to know who you are as a person/Christian, keep your intentions in check and values upfront...that way when you do recognize a "spirit" or a "looney" or a "psycho-narcissistic preacher type", it doesn't have anything to do with you other than you're recognizing it and you make a choice from there. Yeah, there are some places/cities that are extremely uncomfortable (stupid people wise or evil spirit wise) and it's a very valuable gift to have those little neck hairs raise like red flags and pay attention to your instinct! Just being aware can provide you with so much strength.

Rose, if you felt "something" entering that city...in my book, that's a good thing! Pay attention to that. Pray about that. Be stronger that you are aware of it.

My thoughts...feel free to ignore. :o

[Anna Marta]

It's so important to know who you are as a person/Christian, keep your intentions in check and values upfront...that way when you do recognize a "spirit" or a "looney" or a "psycho-narcissistic preacher type", it doesn't have anything to do with you other than you're recognizing it and you make a choice from there.[/COLOR]

Dear Spinninghead,

The nail has been hit squarely on my head!

WE LIVE IN THE ENEMY'S CAMP, JESUS MADE THAT CLEAR, HUH?

As I sit and think about your words, I realize that it is in the making of the choice that the pain comes for me. Sure there is a shock to discover that I have uncovered a "looney" or a "psycho-narcissistic preacher type" - BUT the rub lies in my choosing to let it go and move on down the line... The relationships I established that are impacted by my choice make it extremely uncomfortable, even painful.

This spiritual abuse stuff is a relatively new topic for me, although having seen it at other times in my life, the past few years have brought it home! Since God has the control then I can only accept that He wanted my attention concentrated here for a reason. :( :)

I am reading Beth Moore's book "When Godly People Do Ungodly Things". She tells about how Jesus told Peter he had given Satan permission to sift him. She explains why Jesus would give that permission - because there was something in Peter that NEEDED SIFTING if he was going to be able to do the important tasks ahead of him.

My weakness - I HATE to be disliked for any reason, yes, have lived my life assuming the world should love me (or at least like me :rolleyes: ) What a shock to discover narcissistic people in my life.

Now if I am to be able to do whatever it is God has in mind for me in the time to come (he doesn't have a lot of time, I'm 60) THEN (1) this nonsense of needing to be loved/liked by one and all needs to be gotten rid of - as does (2) my not being able to make the right choices for my life without thinking I have to explain or justify them to others in order to gain approval. Do you see how silly that sounds when I write it down? I am embarressed to acknowledge it.

I may have to live in the enemy's camp, but I don't have to allow the enemy to destroy me. As a people pleaser, having to meet those persons who are not pleased and need to hurt me because I choose not to attend their church - tears me up! And God wants to put a stop to it!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Realizing this and putting it into action are difficult. So I am thankful to be able to share w/ you wise birds and get your feedback. Keep feeding me I am eating your wisdom, working hard and growing day-by-day. :D

Love from
Anna Marta

[Carmen]

I don't put much stock in an area being infested with evil or something. I think that belongs more to Spiritual Mapping, something I don't find to be scriptural. I think that if we feel something, it is a part of ourselves that is trying to protect the rest from harm. We should always listen to our intuition, I think, it is there for a reason. But after abuse we might associate an area with the abuse and then we are plagued by a sense of fear or have fight-or-flight feelings. This is normal, I think, for someone that has suffered, but the level of fear or warning might not be normal - since there is no immediate threat.

After the spiritual abuse I couldn't get close to even the area where the pastor lives or where the assembly meets without a bad feeling in my stomach, but I think that it was all in my head. The area isn't more evil than another area, I was more afraid of meeting the pastor or someone from that church. Part of me just wanted to keep the rest from being hurt again. And it does wear off with time. I was near there this morning, had to take my son to a doctor's appointment, and it didn't even cross my mind while I was there. That was the first time it didn't cross my mind! I was able to concentrate fully on driving and on my son, like I should have been doing. It didn't even come into my mind that the pastor lives in that town and that we might have accidentally met at hospital! That is really a first.

Now it is not the enemy's camp anymore. It is just a normal town and a normal area. I can go to that area when and where I want - although I will be making a curve around the building where that group meets, especially on Sundays. That is just good sense. That was definitely a breakthrough. YAHOO! I WIN!

Heck! This is worth a celebration! I'll get out the virtual champagne! This round is on me!

[Katie]

Interesting comments from everyone.

I especially agree with a lot of what Carmen explained. I think we do get healed over time of things that trigger us, and that often our sense of dread is a reaction of fear or PT-stress.

One thing I wonder about and still experience is that at certain times, not necessarily "anniversaries", it seems the spiritual climate around me becomes "heavy" with some of the things from the past. I can be going along doing great, and suddenly find myself again fighting through things that I thought were dealt with.

One of the reasons I wonder is because sometimes it happens to my husband simultaneously and because several times we have found out, after the fact, that these "episodes" coincided with a visit to our former church by the "apostle."

I am not one to get spooky spiritual about things, but rather tend to look at things more rationally. However, I don't completely discount the idea that there are real forces of evil at work.

[Jerry]

Dear Katie,,,,
I think your right,,,,that there are forces of evil at work....What we need to remember is that Christ gave us power over those forces.That power granted by Christ is inversely proportional to the extent that we are capable of embracing it......I don't mean to imply however that our ability to apply this power is connected to faith,,,,,rather it is connected to our level of understanding of the functional dynamics of how to employ that power,,,remembering that Christ never said that following Him would make everything "Hunky Dorey" :D
Love Jerry

[yeshua'smags]

I told my youth group once that I believed in ghosts. You should have seen the look on their faces! It was hilarious! Then I explained that I believe that demons can take on any form, and that is what people see, not the spirit of the deceased person.:D :cool:

In other words, I totally agree. I think evil forces are at work all around us and will do anything to drive us away from the Light.;) I think you're feelings were dead-on! ( pardon the pun):D

[hornblower]

I think that this world is the devils playground what did we expect? Ive had these feelings before and I go by what I heard God say to me. Love overcomes fear. Sometimes its harder than others and I cant do it but I found out that if I dwell on anything too spiritual it is very devastating. When I was a new Christian I had some of the most profound things happen to me and later on a second period in my life I did too.

If I told a pschiatrist they would put me on medication or in a hospital so I keep these things to myself. I know they are real. The reason I know they are real is because before I became a Christian it never ever happened to me. I think the thing to know is what is it doing for you to experience these things? I go by that. Does it uplift me, make me a better person, make the day smoother, more peace in my life? Or turn it around and does it help others?
If it clearly doesnt. Its not God. Everything in the bible can be counterfeited by the angel of light even healing. Im absolutely convinced of it.
Some people love scarrey movies dont they? What good does it do?
I know not everything can be about Love but most things if they are good and are loving are for sure God. Saying that a country or a place has demons and stuff like that its like so what every place does what else is new?

N

[hornblower]

Hey though beginagainrose its great to see you on the board again. Im hoping that you gave that lady a good smug look back and hooked em back home where you belong my sister!
I had the same thing happen to me a couple of times. Its a shame who knows what theyve been through to get them to that point of bewing so uncaring but its not our problem any more. You are so right the battles are the Lords.
Its definitely no wonder that you would feel that way about the area you were in, no telling whats going on there in the spiritual realm.
Hope the birthday party was fun and the grandson. Wow you dont look like you are old enough to have grandchildren!
Safe trip home.

[beginagainrose]

Back home this evening and wanted to add a point here to all the great input on this... Jeremiah 19 talks about the evil God will allow to come on a city and even a whole nation when His people, and especially the "priests" act wickedly. God has been impressing me about this issue that Ezek 34 shepherds open up a door to evil... powers. principalities as Romans talks about. Demonic assignment over territories and regions. It is true it is everywhere but when a city loses it's spiritual covering... there is no "hedge" as it were... back to Jeremiah 19. Your thoughts?

[Lzsing99]

I hear what you are saying, I truelly do, but I have to add this, if we know the Lord than we know his word. In Ephesians 6:12 we read that "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spriritual wickedness in high places"

If we are truelly of the Lord, we are going to come against Oppression! When we are doing the Lord's work the Devil is not going to like this and he's going to try everything in his power to stop us.

My belief is if everything is going hunky dory, than we are not doing God's work, does that make any sense? Not always, but sometimes.

This doesn't mean that there are not going to be times, where we are blessed, and protected and guided by the Lord, but it also means that there are going to be times, where we are in strife, and struggling.

My belief is, is that we need to praise the Lord no matter what.

Amen? The Lord never promised any of us, a stress free life, he just promised us eternity with him.

God Bless
what did we expect? Ive had these feelings before and I go by what I heard God say to me. Love overcomes fear. Sometimes its harder than others and I cant do it but I found out that if I dwell on anything too spiritual it is very devastating. When I was a new Christian I had some of the most profound things happen to me and later on a second period in my life I did too.

If I told a pschiatrist they would put me on medication or in a hospital so I keep these things to myself. I know they are real. The reason I know they are real is because before I became a Christian it never ever happened to me. I think the thing to know is what is it doing for you to experience these things? I go by that. Does it uplift me, make me a better person, make the day smoother, more peace in my life? Or turn it around and does it help others?
If it clearly doesnt. Its not God. Everything in the bible can be counterfeited by the angel of light even healing. Im absolutely convinced of it.
Some people love scarrey movies dont they? What good does it do?
I know not everything can be about Love but most things if they are good and are loving are for sure God. Saying that a country or a place has demons and stuff like that its like so what every place does what else is new?

N[/QUOTE]

[hornblower]

My belief is if everything is going hunky dory, than we are not doing God's work, does that make any sense? Not always, but sometimes.



I dont know if this last post was in reply to me or not but I certainly dont disagree with it.
I love hearing this part here.
One time I was leaving church (trhe only really good church I have ever known) and a dear lady was leaving, she overheard me talking to the pastor about this very subject, she said.........."How do you know youre not smack dab in Gods perfect will for your life? If you are hurting and there are many against you I would say you are probably a threat to the enemy. Otherwise all would be well with you."
That blessed me so much because in the doctrines I hear these days in these churches and I will add my favorite lady to the list that I watch on TV, its just the opposite. Everything should be well with me and thee if we are doing what we should. I dont see it in the word and neither do you my friend. We are one on this matter and I rejoice in that and by the way welcome to the forum. If youve been here before I dont remember you.
What did I say that makes you think I would disagree?

You know, I have a huge problem of late with doing this. I am one of these illiterate people that says what they mean but way too much of it and when I write my meaning is getting lost in my garbleness.
To be blunt I talk too much always have. My Mother hated me for it. She never talked at all. I have no one here to talk too about anything so I go off into nether land when I come here and ramble on my thoughts willy nilly.
A lot of people cannot handle that in another person.
Are you one of them?
If you are I do apologise and Im here to tell you Im getting very weary of late. Physically always but emotionally now. I dont know if I can stay much longer or even if I should. That should make life easier for you and for many others too I presume.
I know I dont bring much to others here I just hang around. I have no notions of helping anyone. I gave up on that idea long ago. I just am who I am. I take up space.

[Carmen]

(((Hornblower))),

I do read what you write and think that you are a dear person, but don't always have the energy to respond. Sometimes I am at a loss for words, sometimes just too wrapped up in my own problems. This is a really heavy day for me. I may not always "say" something, but I'm "listening".

Carmen

[hornblower]

(((Hornblower))),

I do read what you write and think that you are a dear person, but don't always have the energy to respond. Sometimes I am at a loss for words, sometimes just too wrapped up in my own problems. This is a really heavy day for me. I may not always "say" something, but I'm "listening".

Carmen
Oh absolutely I do know how it is Carmen. Me too, I read some posts and dont know what to say and for sure I would understand somebody feeling that over mine especially. Good news I dont have b cancer! Im still celebrating that one.
I will be surely praying for you today my dear friend.

[Carmen]

Thanks dearie, and congratulations on your good health!

[yeshua'smags]

I hear what you are saying, I truelly do, but I have to add this, if we know the Lord than we know his word. In Ephesians 6:12 we read that "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spriritual wickedness in high places"

If we are truelly of the Lord, we are going to come against Oppression! When we are doing the Lord's work the Devil is not going to like this and he's going to try everything in his power to stop us.

My belief is if everything is going hunky dory, than we are not doing God's work, does that make any sense? Not always, but sometimes.

This doesn't mean that there are not going to be times, where we are blessed, and protected and guided by the Lord, but it also means that there are going to be times, where we are in strife, and struggling.

My belief is, is that we need to praise the Lord no matter what.

Amen? The Lord never promised any of us, a stress free life, he just promised us eternity with him.

God Bless
what did we expect? Ive had these feelings before and I go by what I heard God say to me. Love overcomes fear. Sometimes its harder than others and I cant do it but I found out that if I dwell on anything too spiritual it is very devastating. When I was a new Christian I had some of the most profound things happen to me and later on a second period in my life I did too.

If I told a pschiatrist they would put me on medication or in a hospital so I keep these things to myself. I know they are real. The reason I know they are real is because before I became a Christian it never ever happened to me. I think the thing to know is what is it doing for you to experience these things? I go by that. Does it uplift me, make me a better person, make the day smoother, more peace in my life? Or turn it around and does it help others?
If it clearly doesnt. Its not God. Everything in the bible can be counterfeited by the angel of light even healing. Im absolutely convinced of it.
Some people love scarrey movies dont they? What good does it do?
I know not everything can be about Love but most things if they are good and are loving are for sure God. Saying that a country or a place has demons and stuff like that its like so what every place does what else is new?
N[/QUOTE]

I completely agree with you!! Thank you for articulating this so well!!!!!We told a preacher once that the reason we were having so much trouble with the "underpriviliged" (sp?) kids we were bringing in was because we were doing what God wanted us to do and he told us we were cracked. That if we were doing the right thing God would bless us. :eek: :rolleyes: :confused:
Uh...and this was our "spiritual leader"?????:mad:

[Carmen]

Caution - Scripture verses

Back home this evening and wanted to add a point here to all the great input on this... Jeremiah 19 talks about the evil God will allow to come on a city and even a whole nation when His people, and especially the "priests" act wickedly. God has been impressing me about this issue that Ezek 34 shepherds open up a door to evil... powers. principalities as Romans talks about. Demonic assignment over territories and regions. It is true it is everywhere but when a city loses it's spiritual covering... there is no "hedge" as it were... back to Jeremiah 19. Your thoughts?
I don't agree with the vocabulary you use, it sounds a lot like Spiritual Mapping vocabulary. I went to Jeremiah 19 and couldn't find the words or concepts: door to evil, a city having a spiritual covering, or hedge.

I found an article about shepherding that contains covering and hedge.
http://www.shamar.org/articles/covering.htm

Here is a very balanced article about covering, I think.
http://www.subversiveinfluence.com/wordpress/?page_id=576

I think that the passage in Jeremiah 19 refers only to the necessity (or rather attempt) to keep the Jews pure before the arrival of the Messiah. After Jesus came and they rejected him, that changed everything. The earthly Kingdom was not set up immediately, but will come later. Right now the Kingdom of God is in Christian's hearts. We as individuals are to be pure, not one nation or many nations. Each person can believe in Jesus or not, everyone is responsible for himself, and not for a collective. No nation on earth can be Christian, Godly, believing, whatever because no nation has a soul of its own, but is made up of individuals that either believe or don't. God has always looked at the sincerity of individual's hearts and that is what will be important at the judgment. Israel represented God, so they were a special case when they built altars to other gods as described in Jeremiah 19.

"And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, 'These are the LORD's people, and yet they had to leave his land.' I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone." Ezekiel 36:20,21.

And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. Revelation 5:9.

God will deal with "the nations" including Israel.

For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined. Isaiah 60:12.

Since not every person in a nation can or will serve God (force is not an option) then this prophecy of Isaiah will come true. I can't go into the details, that would take pages, but if you study Revelation you will see that some nations do get more wrath from God than others, but not even Israel is excepted. Israel is all but destroyed, there is only a small remnant that God rescues at the last minute. But that is not the last punishment or destruction.

When Jesus comes he will establish his Kingship, but even that physical kingship on this earth, displacing Satan, will not last forever, but only for a thousand years. See Revelation 20.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." Revelation 21:1-4

Jesus is taking people out of nations, the nations themselves are ultimately all doomed to punishment before Jesus comes to reign, then more destruction after his reign over this earth is over.

Take this all with a grain of salt, but I felt that I had to write something, those words are spooky to me and I freaked out.

[beginagainrose]

Carmen... spiritual mapping vocabulary?...Caution - Scripture?...Spooky?...what you and I seem to have here is a failure in communication. I was speaking in general terms for me personally and referenced Jer 19 as a backdrop to my thoughts about this. As I said, it is something the Lord has been impressing me about. I am not going to play "dueling scriptures" here... that is not why I came to this room, however, I believe the Word (incl. Jer 19) makes it clear that God withdraws His Hand of protection and blessing when His people disobey and act "wickedly/sinfully". Read my originial post - it qualitfies by even the broadest of standards. I do not pretend to be any "savy" expert (sp. mapping etc.), but it seems to me that if we have to "caution" people that we are referencing scripture we have lost something in translation for sure. I dont understand your thinking about "spooky" to the point of freaking you out...?... could you explain that in greater detail? I have 3 different translations in front of me and so it varies a bit, but, it is clear that Jeremiah was to smash the clay jar to demonstrate that God was going to allow evil (KJV says v.3 says "I will bring evil upon this place"). You may want to debate my reference of scripture; but with all the evil that has come upon Modesto AFTER I stood "in the town square" and smashed a clay jar where 100 pastors were meeting for prayer, (i.e., the Carol Sund/Peloso murders, Chandra Levy murder - yes she was killed in DC but she and Gary Condit were from Modesto and since he was a representative of the city/county/district - it applies), and then, of course the Laci/Connor Peterson murders -- since then an Iraqi serviceman went "berzerk" upon returning from Iraq and killed a store clerk, a terrorist cell was discovered just north of Modesto... as for my hometown of Yreka, CA, where my mother had he affair with my father (her pastor over 53 yrs ago?...in 2002, over 700 lbs. of dynamite was stolen from a mine in the area - it was NEVER recovered, even though a large reward was offered by the ATF...AND it put Yreka in the national news (that would certainly accomodate a few suicide bombers!) and as Jeremiah 19 says; it surely "has made the ears of everyone who hears of it (the evil) tingle. The "hedge" I spoke of was referring to spiritual protection/blessing. I hope this helps clarify your confusion about my statements. If this is still fuzzy, all I can say is wait for my book to come out - it will connect the dots in detail. I assure you God is getting read to use Modesto as a sign and a proverb to this nation. That is about all I can share at this time. Thanks for your post - iron sharpens iron;) :)

[Jo Jo]

Warning Trigger: Scripture... ;)

What I honestly believe is people love to spend too much time in the Old Testament. This is what I saw my old cult church doing. They loved to take the Old Testament scriptures and just dig them to death and make things out of them... that maybe weren't there. Claim them and use them and wave them around. I'm not saying that you can't... everyone certainly has the right to believe any and everything they want, and to make anything out of the scriptures they want to. Not one part of the Old Testament will be put aside (Matt 5:17,18), But Jesus talked of the 'New Covenant'.

In the Old Testament it was told about - Jeremiah 31:31

Jesus talked about it while he was here - Luke 22:20

And Hebrews 8 tells us what it is compared to the old

The Old Covenant and falling back into it is one place where I believe you will find the enemy's camp. It traps us in that joyless place of where we remove ourselves from the grace of God. Jesus is the New Covenant... so why do we spend so much time getting into all these strange 'ooo ahhhhs' in the Old Testament when Jesus came to set us free from the old law? I just don't get it. But I'm still not saying that anyone can't do it or that anyone here is doing it, I'm sharing here what I feel about this. I just know that's what leads to all these cults on T.V. and churches I've visited, the prophesy conferences, etc... and the cult church I left. It's a vanity to me, when Jesus and his grace should be enough.

I'm not saying the Old Testament is bad or wrong... it's beautiful and part of God's Holy Scripture. But take it for what it is... redeemed and owned by Jesus... no longer holding power over us, unless also sanctioned in the freedom and love of the 'New Covenant'. So I would definitely know the new above the old. That was Jesus' emphasis.

[Jo Jo]

Carmen wrote:
I do read what you write and think that you are a dear person, but don't always have the energy to respond. Sometimes I am at a loss for words, sometimes just too wrapped up in my own problems. This is a really heavy day for me. I may not always "say" something, but I'm "listening".

Yes, Carmen... I know how you feel and this was really good... I've really felt like this lately. In fact I think the post below used up all my brain sparks for awhile. ;) I even find lately that reading a lot here is difficult... maybe because what my friend went through with her mom and we've been spending extra time on that. Maybe life and energy just comes and goes like that... like the tide. Sometimes I'm real talkative and sometimes more quiet.

[Carmen]

Hi beginagainrose,

I put in "caution, scripture" because some have been so misused by others twisting scripture against them, that I know some cannot read it without being triggered, without having the old tapes start playing back. That is why I and others usually paraphrase it here. If I do quote, I never use the KJV, because some associate that old bible language with their whole abuse situations. I couldn't find a way to paraphrase effectively for my last post, though.

I didn't want to offend, but the mention of dropping clay jars and places that are not mentioned in the bible, like Babylon, used as signs just reminds me even more of the spiritual mapping and word-faith stuff I used to believe in when I was manipulated in pentecostal/charismatic churches. The prophets of old were given power to do such things, but in my opinion the last real sign that was given for men was Jesus' death and resurrection. I don't think that Christians nowadays have the power to drop pots and expect results, or speak prophecies against people and expect them to come true. I call that the flip-side of the word-faith coin. I used to believe that spoken words have power and prayed a lot and built hedges "in Jesus' name" for protection against demons, evil, whatever. I would have worn Jesus' name out if that were possible. I used to support a major ministry that preached that, I even partnered with them. :eek: Robertson speaks stuff against people he doesn't like as does Hinn. I started to think I could do that too. I lost a cell phone and the person that found it wouldn't give it back. I cursed them on the phone, thinking that God would get them. I don't know how I stood myself. Then by the grace of God, I realized that was not the way. I cannot carry out judgement, cannot make God do it for me by speaking or acting in a certain way, and cannot even allow myself the luxury of hating someone. I can demand justice if the possibility exists, but must leave judgement up to God. Word-Faith was leading me to judge what should happen to others and hate others that seemed evil to me. This is just my experience and why I find such things spooky.

Here is one article about word-faith:

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/char/more/w-f.htm

[beginagainrose]

Thanks, Carmen for the explanation - it is clear we all have different ways our SA has affected us for sure. Two things come to mind... (ok...)SCRIPTURE WARNING:..........

We all "work out our own salvation" as we all "stand or fall to our own Master". I cannot answer for anyone else. What God has been teaching me about my experiences in Modesto has been confirmed and re-confirmed. He directed me and I obeyed however, bizarre it may seem to others. I cannot explain it any better or in more detail here or I would be trying to put forth my manuscript in this forum and that would be running ahead of the Lord for sure...I may have done that a bit already by sharing too much here. What I do know is that there are people who were violently murdered because of the wickedness of my shepherds in Modesto and God will do what He wants to do with my life as He works His plan with all of it... I am more convinced than ever that EACH of us has a purpose out of the SA we have suffered and I know that God will show each of us what it is, how it is to be used and when; this is just mine.