Any perspective on this one?

[ex-shep]

I received an email letter from a traveling evangelist of Tammy's former church. It was a very thoughtful letter on reconciliation. I replied to "Jim" if he could pray that Tammy and I settle our differences. I got an email saying he did not know who Tammy was or what I was talking about. Admittedly he was trying to rush out the door to catch a flight. I can vouch for that as he has a speaking engagement nearby that I plan to catch. It struck as a little less than credible as Tammy is an aleas for a distinctively unique name. Put it this way, her real name could be easily looked up in the "Midwest City" phone book.

I have two takes on it. First is he is on the road preaching the world over and the name slipped him. The other is he does remember both Tammy and I and the split. It may be too much of sore spot for him. I was one of the harshest critics of Tammy's group. I somewhat remember, from a former member, that Tammy was something of handful for the leaders. They loved her commitment to the group, but found her personal struggles a bit much to handle. I plan to let the Holy Spirit be the final arbiter of this one. Thankfully I was able to process my emotions by the time I drove into work. It was history by the time I badged in.

Unless Jim brings up the issue, I am going to let it go. I plan to have a good time with the church and the speaker. I am sure a good time will be had by all.
I do have a standing rule with any leaders in the group if they wish to pass on the topic, they can with no questions asked. Many have served their time in repenting and cleaning up the mess left by the founding leader. I am OK with respecting their boundaries.

[butterfly]

Is Tammy still in this group? Or is she out and recovering like we are here?

Hope you like your new job. Good luck:D

Are you still frying in Texas? Or are you all on a slow boil?:D

Leaves are changing and apple cider times is coming. Mmmmmmm smell the cider?? butterfly shilrey

[ex-shep]

Is Tammy still in this group? Or is she out and recovering like we are here?

Hope you like your new job. Good luck:D

Are you still frying in Texas? Or are you all on a slow boil?:D

Leaves are changing and apple cider times is coming. Mmmmmmm smell the cider?? butterfly shilrey


It is kinda like this. I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is she left the group. The bad news is she is still stuck in the 1980s verbiage of the group. She has left the group but the group has not left her. She is still accusing me of slandering the brethren. I find that rather interesting as I am going to her one of her former elders preach at a state univesity fellowship. It hit me the verbiage is a defense mechanism to hide behind. I have been praying for her recovery from all this since 1984. Why the rest of the group has cleaned house and she has not is still something of a mystery to me.

The job is great. It is a tiny office. Right now it is just the boss and I. I sell over the phone. I have also been putting together training materials for new hires. Lots of variety. 1000-1830. Love it.

Fall has arrived early. It will be the upper Fifties tonight. Fall is to die for in Texas. It last for several weeks and is absolutely delightful. I have already bought first venti white mocha or pumpkin spice mocha for the season.

[Jo Jo]

Well, like I said before I don't know all the history with Tammy. Is there any chance of just letting Tammy go until she gets in touch with you? Not everything in our past can be fixed. God knows almost nothing in my past can especially if the other person isn't willing and especially if the other person doesn't want contact.

I was fortunate to reconcile with my dad and brother only after the relationships sat in silence for 13 years. I had to trust God with them and hoped that some day something would happen. Actually most of those years I hoped nothing would ever happen again, but God had something else in mind and is faithful to bring things back around and together, at least those things that are supposed to be. Somethings on this side of heaven can't be fixed, but it doesn't mean we will be held responsible, or it's our fault.

Grace must be given to ourselves as well as others.

I probably missed your whole problem here with Tammy, since I don't know the history, and so I'm sorry if I'm talking out of turn, but I would say give yourself grace in the matter. It's frustrating when people like this man you gave the prayer request do not take time, or do not see our side and have understanding of where we are coming from. I don't know whether you should try to push the issue again with him or let it go. I'm sorry for this constant struggle in this situation for you. I wish there could be some sort of turn around with Tammy.

[Anna Marta]

Ex Shep,
I agree with JoJo on this one. There is only so much you can do with or for Tammy. I sense in many of your sharings regarding Tammy that this is something that has been weighing hard on your heart for a long time.

My advice, for whatever it is worth, is to back way off and watch for what God does.

There comes a time when the entire battle belongs to the Lord who created Tammy and knows her best.

Love from
Anna Marta

[ex-shep]

Perfect agreement on those responses. Thats for the recovery 101

[Carmen]

Caution! Some words may trigger!

If Tammy sees you as an enemy it may be difficult to get reconciled.

If I am correct about the verbiage you mentioned, an "enemy" in her book (from shepherding days) might really mean something like a devil. The word "slanderer" is the same word for "devil" in old Greek. That is a hard thing to go up against. We are supposed to love our enemies, but some put slanderers in the same category as "backsliders", as "unbelievers", as "worse than unbelievers". It all depends on how she defines those words. She may have to change how she defines such words and realize that you are no slanderer, but are on the side of the truth. Who knows how thick the walls in her head are though?

She would also have to realize that her vocabulary may be full of error, that the same words have different meanings for others and moreover may not mean the same thing to her as God intended in scripture. But that is the only vocabulary she has and the only frame of reference. I know, I was stuck in vocabulary too, until I found out that what I had been taught might be wrong. Like you said though, being out of the group is not like getting the group out of you. That may take time. It would all depend on who she is with, whether they support the meaning of her present vocabulary or offer her new (and hopefully better) definitions. She would have to make the decision to replace the definitions in her mind too.

From learning languages, I wonder how much the people make the language, or how much it makes them. A language can be a tool and a cage at the same time.

[ex-shep]

[QUOTE=Carmen;38271]Caution! Some words may trigger!

If Tammy sees you as an enemy it may be difficult to get reconciled.

If I am correct about the verbiage you mentioned, an "enemy" in her book (from shepherding days) might really mean something like a devil.

I have to get out the door. Two things. Ten points for the disclaimor. Comment on slander dead on accurate. I have to print this one up.

[SpinningHead]

I received an email letter from a traveling evangelist of Tammy's former church. It was a very thoughtful letter on reconciliation. I replied to "Jim" if he could pray that Tammy and I settle our differences. I got an email saying he did not know who Tammy was or what I was talking about. Admittedly he was trying to rush out the door to catch a flight.

<snip>

I have two takes on it. First is he is on the road preaching the world over and the name slipped him. The other is he does remember both Tammy and I and the split. It may be too much of sore spot for him.

<snip>



My 2 cents is that my approach is to ask a million questions to everything. It seems to me that both of you are coming from two different places. You might start by asking why he sent you the e-mail on reconcilliation in the first place and find out where he was coming from...go from there. The hard facts at this time are that you have an e-mail from an evangelist on reconcilliation. Even though he was involved w/ Tammy in some way in the past...we don't know where he is today with it. The maybe's of what he's thinking or where he is at isn't fact until he himself conveys to you where he's coming from and then you have a good start to a conversation.

[ex-shep]

My 2 cents is that my approach is to ask a million questions to everything. It seems to me that both of you are coming from two different places. You might start by asking why he sent you the e-mail on reconcilliation in the first place and find out where he was coming from...go from there. The hard facts at this time are that you have an e-mail from an evangelist on reconcilliation. Even though he was involved w/ Tammy in some way in the past...we don't know where he is today with it. The maybe's of what he's thinking or where he is at isn't fact until he himself conveys to you where he's coming from and then you have a good start to a conversation.


It was The email was a mass newsletter. Others in the campus fellowship received it. He also announced it. Interestingly enough it was specifically on what to do when your leader lets you down. Considering what the early days of the group was like, I think the evangelist went to extra mile on a topic the leaders would plugged their ears.


You may be right. I decided that it just not that important to pursue. I may have read into more than I thought. I now have understanding how the topic of "slander" got twisted. When the time comes, I should have no problem explaining it to Tammy. No hurry. God's timing is perfect every time. It feels good to get a handle on a conundrum which has been irritating me for years.

I did go up to the hear the evangelist. I had a good time. It was a nice fall day for a drive in the country.

[ex-shep]

Caution! Some words may trigger!

If Tammy sees you as an enemy it may be difficult to get reconciled.

If I am correct about the verbiage you mentioned, an "enemy" in her book (from shepherding days) might really mean something like a devil. The word "slanderer" is the same word for "devil" in old Greek. That is a hard thing to go up against. We are supposed to love our enemies, but some put slanderers in the same category as "backsliders", as "unbelievers", as "worse than unbelievers". It all depends on how she defines those words. She may have to change how she defines such words and realize that you are no slanderer, but are on the side of the truth. Who knows how thick the walls in her head are though?

She would also have to realize that her vocabulary may be full of error, that the same words have different meanings for others and moreover may not mean the same thing to her as God intended in scripture. But that is the only vocabulary she has and the only frame of reference. I know, I was stuck in vocabulary too, until I found out that what I had been taught might be wrong. Like you said though, being out of the group is not like getting the group out of you. That may take time. It would all depend on who she is with, whether they support the meaning of her present vocabulary or offer her new (and hopefully better) definitions. She would have to make the decision to replace the definitions in her mind too.

From learning languages, I wonder how much the people make the language, or how much it makes them. A language can be a tool and a cage at the same time.

You absolutely right. Very observant on the misuse of slander. The Greek word for slander is "diablos" where we get the word "diabolical". In context the word means "evil accusation". Tammy definitely got that one turned around. I does not mean 'critical assessment" as the leader 20 years ago were want to say. I have come to the conclusion that this is more of a defense mechanism than anything else. This epiphany has not answered all of my questions, but I must say it definitely provides some much needed clarification.

Thank for your comments. Next latte on me.

[SpinningHead]

Thank for your comments. Next latte on me.

Hey!!?? Where's my latte???? :p

[ex-shep]

Hey!!?? Where's my latte???? :p

Ten points. That was good. :D