big church or little church?

[leelees]

anyone i speak to who has had sa, when i ask about church they always say they want a big church so they can just hide in the back ground...but i want somewhere small and family like!
am i being weird in not wanting to be lost in a crowd...

if i wanted to be ignored then i wouldnt start going to church in the first place?! :o

[abbey]

welp, im fresh out of some intense SA, so Im aiming BIG and just listening for awhile. However, I understand your desire for something close-knit. Doesnt make you weird, dear, just makes you YOU!:D

[Doug64]

Well, Leelees, I can only speak for myself (and my wife I guess) as we feel that in a large church we would be less noticed and past services might not come to light for a while. We neither one have a desire to get into choir, teach children's church, usher, etc at this time.

However, that being said, the big churches tend to have agressive youth, music and teaching programs, so that tends to be a minus for us too. They want to involve you (us) in something.

It pretty much depends on the individual, I think.

Doug

[mary]

Hey, Leelees,

I understand, with your history and all, especially your personality, why you'd want to be in a smaller church. If you didn't, I'd worry whether you were getting a little downhearted or something. It's encouraging that you're still inclined to want "connectedness" with other Christians, etc.

I spent my entire childhood (until I got engaged and then married, around age 22) in a Catholic church in -ahem- a very large city in southeastern Michigan. It was an "ethnically challenged" church (Irish :D - jut kidding, Jerry! I'm Irish on both sides.). It had 4,000 families and 10,000 people on its membership rolls. A staff of about 9 priests said 11 Masses there every weekend and the 1,200-seat sanctuary was packed for every one. (To be a member of any Catholic parish, you just have to show proof of your baptism into the RCC at some point and give 'em your name, address and phone number.) Well, that's what I was referring to when I said I could have warmed a pew there for 80 years, no one would have spoken to me and I would have been better off. But it wasn't a Christian outfit - the Gospel wasn't preached there. I'd married a Protestant and it wasn't hard to leave.

Huge, upwardly-numerical (HUNS hereafter; no pun intended) non-Catholic churches are problems. I've yet to find one that didn't have abusive and/or cultic properties attached to them somewhere. The infinitesimally small church from which I was pitched last fall had remarkably abusive, cultic properties to it. HUNS stink; so do small, incestuous viper pits. There's little of real Chrisianity present in either. Hiding is good and supports healing, for awhile, as Doug said, and right now, we're "hiding" in two, approximately 200-member congregations. They're big enough to hide in, but not so big that we can't sort of make some acquaintances, participate in Bible studies and fellowships, etc. Neither my husband nor I (echoing Doug and his wife) want to join anything right now, though. I can't picture doing that anytime soon.

No, of course you're not weird! You're Leelees, a very, very special person to the Lord! :) :D

Love,

mary

[leelees]

i think im just sick of being on my own all the time, at least you got your hubby you can hide with and your wives etc...i have no one to hide with!

i hate being on my own, im used to it and can cope pretty well but ive just had enough!

[Jerry]

I wonder what kind of Church God likes...................A little Church crowded ????????..........Or a big Church 1/2 full ?????????

[mary]

I wonder what kind of Church God likes...................A little Church crowded ????????..........Or a big Church 1/2 full ?????????

We who actually care about what God likes are in the vast, uncounted (on earth) minority, aren't we? :eek: :cool:

Not quite a year ago, I called over to a specific denominational office in the U.K. to discuss - without naming names - the problem we were having with "pastor." I said I was calling from the States (as if the minister on the other end didn't know that when I'd said two words! ;) ) and my husband and I were very troubled about a certain minister. This minister I was talking to said, "Oh. The ******* congregation, right?" I said yes... I asked him if he had any advice for us and he said, "You and your husband need to find a new church where the Gospel is preached and Jesus Christ is exalted." I said, well, but this and that doctrinal point here and there would be out of whack. He said, "You're not going to find a perfect church. Just get out of the one you're in now and find one where those two requirements are fulfilled." About an hour later came the phone call in which "pastor" threw me out of the church here.

So -- now we've found actually two congregations where that's the case: GOSPEL PREACHED and CHRIST EXALTED. Isn't that what we're all really talking about? All of this control bull**** from these flaming horse's backsides in charge of these phony churches is just that! (BTW, that's the only time you're ever going to hear me swear here... ;) :p )

mary

[hornblower]

i think im just sick of being on my own all the time, at least you got your hubby you can hide with and your wives etc...i have no one to hide with!

i hate being on my own, im used to it and can cope pretty well but ive just had enough!

I love that you are a fellow chocolate monster. Me too!
It doesnt neccessarly follow that you are safe because you are married leelees.
But.........I know that my single friends often feel this way and Im so sorry that you are suffering this loneliness.
I often have to remind myself that Jesus is my real husband. I follow Him. I hide in Him. I only say this so that for us marrieds and for us singles too that we all understand that loneliness and fear can strike any of us anytime anywhere anyway.
I hate being on my own too as far as church goes.........I have no support at all and I never have had. Ive spent many many times in church alone, in fact allmost all of them.

Ive also been abused because of it. Its hard enough for a woman being alone but add to it without husband and you are marked out as a sinner. I must have done something wrong or my husband would be in church. The truth is it was them that did the something wrong not me. He did go until they used their........... well long story done that before right?

Anyway Im not equating your feelings to mine at all I just wanted to add mine alongside yours. I FEEL your pain is what Im really saying.
I wish I could give you the perfect man.............but hes dead, Jesus is the only perfect one I know and His arms are invisible thats the hard part. I too wish I could feel them. Physically. Oh well Jesus was single! He suffered the same thing too and I know it had to be very very heard and lonely for Him as well.
I love my husband and he is a good man. Im very fortunate to have him.
I pray strength for you my leelees in knowing how much Jesus loves and cares for you. I know He suffers right along with you. Feel free to rave on my friend. we are here for you always.

[hornblower]

I wonder what kind of Church God likes...................A little Church crowded ????????..........Or a big Church 1/2 full ?????????
Jerry I just read this morning............"what kind of building could you make for Me seeing that I am God!" like duh...........dont think Hes even in a building do you?
I think He likes the church that He has..........our hearts.

[Carmen]

You're just fine, Leelees. Trust your intuition. Just be discerning when you do go looking for a church.

[Jerry]

Jerry I just read this morning............"what kind of building could you make for Me seeing that I am God!" like duh...........dont think Hes even in a building do you?
I think He likes the church that He has..........our hearts.

You answer well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Grasshopper" :D :D

[hornblower]

You answer well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Grasshopper" :D :D

Does this mean I drink em (oh how I wish) or that I am one. Green and hoppin? You are too funny my man. You know that Im just talkin dont you? Nothin preachey comin from this hopper. It was just so strange since I had just read that. Well were back from the little house. Back to massive trasffic and this house that I have to keep immaculate (not exactly my style). Trying to sell this sucker. My furniture is so old which thats what I like but in a newer house it seems out of place. I know Im not supposed to get stressed over all of this stuff but truthfully I am. My mamogram is this week too and Im concerned........you just never know you know? The last one didnt come out right. The lady dont worry its a mistake. I believed her but if it isnt thats six more months they just put on my lack of getting cared for. Ive seen it happen way too much so Im aware of the dangers. I know this is long. I know I am writhing in self you know what. I dont want to be this way but Im nervous and anxious about so many things. This might not be the right place to bring this too I dont know. Maybe I should go to the other forum since this one is only for spiritual abuse? Being on a controlled fgood plan is very trying for me and i am trying to be so dedicated and not give up but its hard when nothing else ever stops. Thank God for that light at the beginning of the tunnel on that law suit against my daughter. I think Im going to call MHMR today or NAMI again so that my husband and I can find out something to relieve us from all of this constant stress from her.
You know, its not so much what happened to her when she was little that was over thirty years ago. It still makes me crazy when I think about it because all of it was so unjust but being here talking about things that literally no one has ever let me talk about has helped me so much. I refuse to deny my feelings. I denied my feelings all of the entire time I grew up. So I eneded up screaming and screaming not knowing why. Now I know this is not the way. Maybe I go a little overboard the other direction and in our society that is not understood. So I stay in here locked up in my house not going anywhere except by myself. I am not allergic to talking about everyday things. I always enjoy that too in fact mostly but I will not hide abuses. Never again. Things have changed and a lot of people think it is for the worse but I dont. I could not believe the news the other night, talking about the sexual abuses in churches and so forth the beating of women by their husbands. Beating wives is a rampant crime down here especially in these little towns. I for one will and have always championed womens rights to be free from abuse and mens too.
Have I talked enough for a Monday? Maybe not who knows? Off to more work on this place. Hate housework! Love clean house.
You know? Im one of those talkey women. I wish I was in a group of some kind where i could really let loose again.......I think? If you think of me please help me with praying for some measure of peace for this stupid mamogram thing.
I hate getting older. Nothing but health issues. I miss having my kids to look after and snuggle with read books too. Please dont tell me to go to day care.....no thankyou. I could get my grandkids easily but........as my husband says where is the energy going to come from? Our kids have gotten to this point. They want to spend time together not with us or their children so much. I know I felt that way too. So they want us to babysit and they call that their quality time with us????????????????????????????? We adore our grandkids too dont misunderstand its like what do you do when you get to this age without church and without a niteclub and drinking? Oh well I know what you do I just dont want to do it.
Whine whine whine.

[hornblower]

leelees please dont take anything Im saying to be critisism. You know I dont know what being single is even like? Ive been married since I was seventeen! Im now 61. Forever Ive been married and i have way too many issues you know what I mean? Its like so many times (all of my friends that I used to have anyway) or single. I like single women better for some reason. They are freer they dont have that tied down close mouthed thing that a lot of churchified married women have. Maybe not all married women are like
that in church I dont know but its been my experience. Its like we all walk around scared spitless to say being married isnt always a picnic. I just wanted you to know.......it isnt a picnic!


Maybe it is for some women but believe me I find that hard to believe too!
Anyway I sure do hope I didnt hurt your feelings i wouldnt do that for the world ok? You are a very precious member here and we all need you and love you. All of my single friends go through this at churches too. Its so hard. Married women at churches whose husbands dont go I think have it even harder. Im sorry but I do believe that. Divorced people have it hard too. These things should never happen in churches at all. My opinion. Paul was single and look who he was? We should give a mighty place to everyone!Everyone is special in the body of christ in my book.

[leelees]

Oh well Jesus was single! He suffered the same thing too and I know it had to be very very heard and lonely for Him as well.

that never came into my little pea head!

"my leelees" aww thats so lush!!! :cool:

[leelees]

ps...ive NEVER had a boyfriend in all my life...ever :mad:

[hornblower]

Bless your heart then leelees you have never known that pitter patter of the heart nor the ultimate pain it can cause when love goes wrong something I know way too much about. Much more than a body should know. I am glad that you do not have this past pain in your life. My daughter is in your place as well leelees although in some way she doesnt seem to care...........hard for me to understand her yet I am so thankful for her lack of pain in this area.

Its hurtful and hard the place you are in. Its not fair and its a shame because Ill bet you anything there are men out there who though they may never admit it, have exactly the same problems. My heart goes out to you and I will surely be praying for you too my friend, but do know this, Jesus definitely suffers just like you. He is waiting for His bride and His heart is broken and anxious for her to come. We all here grieve in one way or another for her to come forth so to speak. It would be so wonderful to have the church be what she should be but...........its not. We must go on I know you know that and you do so bravely everyday. He sees you and is one with you always He will never leave you or forsake you He is your new boyfriend as He is always been mine since I was accepted into His realm.

These things are never really accpetable to talk about in church but I do know for a fact that it is all too scriptural and correct and many women secretly tell me of their experiences. Not sexual mind you there is nothing wrong with the arms of love encircling us and a shoulder to cry on, a body to be with a friend to experience life and pain and joy with. This is the Jesus that I know and love. The personal Jesus. So some people think Im nuts? So what they also said all of the disciples were nuts and all of the women that knew Him. God is LOVE why not let Him love us thats why He came.

My life began to change when I got simple once again and centered in on just one scripture. God is Love! I began to look for love and to be aware that He could bring it to me any time if I would only be quiet and let Him show me. He overwhelmingly did.
I still suffer and cry, I got hurt, I am lonely again but I do remember Him. He still is with me. He is still loving me I know its me that has the problem. Ive let people and their ideas get in the way. I will learn.
I love you too leelees. You can always come here and be yourself anytime we all love here.
I can well imagine that you have never heard about Jesus being single because for some strange reason its never preached on at all????????????
Seldom do you even hear about Paul being single either. Ive wondered and I hope its not true but Ive wondered if its not about money? Now that sure puts a damper on things and many ministers are good hearted, they must be because after all I do think its a lousy unthankful job. But? I have noticed, that it still seems to me that the affluent ones still sit in the first rows with their families all in a row. Also Im sure it is fear that marriage will become a thing of the past which is rapidly happening all over the place. So anyway as they say I feel your pain.

[Jerry]

ps...ive NEVER had a boyfriend in all my life...ever :mad:

My Sweet Leelees,,,,,
I am old ,,,,,retired now............but,,,,,,,,,,,in a different time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in a different reality,,,,,,,I would hit on you ;)
Love Jerry

[ex-shep]

So -- now we've found actually two congregations where that's the case: GOSPEL PREACHED and CHRIST EXALTED. Isn't that what we're all really talking about? All of this control bull**** from these flaming horse's backsides in charge of these phony churches is just that! (BTW, that's the only time you're ever going to hear me swear here... ;) :p )

mary[/QUOTE]

Nice guys, aren't they? It does make one gunshy of anything remotely evangelical. I wonder why I wanted to join the Unitarians. Don't laugh I did for a spell. Interestingly enough I was getting bullied by a pyschotic member and the minister refused to intervene. Needless to say, I left.

[mary]

So -- now we've found actually two congregations where that's the case: GOSPEL PREACHED and CHRIST EXALTED. Isn't that what we're all really talking about? All of this control bull**** from these flaming horse's backsides in charge of these phony churches is just that! (BTW, that's the only time you're ever going to hear me swear here... ;) :p )

mary

Nice guys, aren't they? It does make one gunshy of anything remotely evangelical. I wonder why I wanted to join the Unitarians. Don't laugh I did for a spell. Interestingly enough I was getting bullied by a pyschotic member and the minister refused to intervene. Needless to say, I left.[/QUOTE]

Oh, Ex-Shep, I wouldn't laugh at you for hanging out with Unitarians for a spell! ;) :) Why would you not want to be with people who, at least on the surface and for awhile, are civil to you? About six or seven years ago, a dear friend with whom I had some doctrinal differences told me, after a dust-up I'd had with another Christian, that "you will find that Christians can be meaner to each other than 'the world' will ever be to them." She was absolutely right: in fact, a couple of years after that, she dropped me like a hot potato after pronouncing me to be a heretic... :cool:

My sister and my brothers are unsaved Catholics. We've had horrible rows over the years; there were five of us born in seven years and we had awful parents. But even though my siblings consider me "accursed" (the RCC teaches that about one who leaves, such as I did), they still treat me better than most "Christians" in these stupid, morally and ethically slovenly, cornerstoned dumpsters of non-Catholic "churches" that I've tried to be part of for these past 14 years or so. You could say, well, "blood is thicker than water." Not in my family! However, I would so much rather spend my time with the unsaved who at least love me than with "brothers and sisters in Christ" who would put a knife in my back at any provocation.

There's a rotten picture on the Internet of my old "pastor" as part of the "2006 North American Synod" of that particular denomination. To see that yesterday and to think, this is the guy against whom the local police advised that I get a PPO, and this is the guy who's the reason I'm still carrying pepper spray in my purse, and the guy who told my husband that he was going to get me to divorce him... Ex-Shep, you are right that the evangelical "church" is in terrible shape. In fact, I think it's gone.

Thanks for posting what you did and for reading this rant! :o :)

mary

[leelees]

My Sweet Leelees,,,,,
I am old ,,,,,retired now............but,,,,,,,,,,,in a different time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in a different reality,,,,,,,I would hit on you ;)
Love Jerry
oh my :o you make me blush!
im strangely encouraged by that.....but alas, another thing that just would never happen, relationship wise lol

at times like these i develope hatred with people in relationships lol :D :o