Looking for cheese with my whine

[Anna Marta]

We met with a couple last night who we have been working with for more than a year. They have eagerly anticipated the marriage small group. Explained to them that we've been required to make a choice because going ahead with the marrige group (even in our own home on our time) would be in direct opposition to the church leadership. We told them we have chosen the small group ministry and will let the church go its own way.

They are not yet members of the church (and at this rate they aren't going to be) They surprised us with their insightful comments:

1st, they said this sounds like cult behavior!

2nd, they pointed out what they had seen regarding us and the leadership that we had not seen!

It was clear to them that there was a power struggle in our small group. The church leaders took control during coffee and then didn't split the group in half for Eng/Norsk teaching. We were therefore not free to teach/lead, but were interrupted routinely. This was exasperating to this couple and they often went home frustrated. This is why they were so looking forward to a marriage small group.

Resented that the Norwegian leaders routinely cancelled study and told the group it would be doing other practical tasks on small grp evenings i.e. helping someone pack to move, helping someone wash their house, clean the church offices etc. They didn't mind being asked, but NOT being told on topic evenings as those were the nights they had set aside for their spiritual growth.

On the way home I told Steinar I had thought the struggle (I had been sensing) was because there was something wrong with me.

3rd - They asked if we realized that the pastor/leaders were jealous of us. We had no clue! They saw it clearly at the birthday party that was given for me in early August. There were lots of sweet tributes by the young people there and some hilarious songs people had made up for all of us to sing making fun of me and my American personality and ways that I liven things up. They said that while the rest of us were laughing till we cried, the pastor was not amused... :( (I took quite a ribbing that night- all in good fun) They were waiting to see what the result would be after that evening... geeze and this couple is only in their late 20's, but they both have master's degrees and hold middle management positions in large companies. They are more aware of social dynamics than most people. :rolleyes:

We are gaining more insight in answer to our prayer that God light up dark places. Now I want to complain about He's showing me - ingrate that I am. :(

As our daughter proclaimed, it's darn hard being an adult. Oh, how I agree :rolleyes:

[Jerry]

Dear Anna,,,
You & Stiener have been given the tools,,,,you "Know" what to do ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,now trust it ;)
Love Jerry

[Anna Marta]

You know what Jerry? You're right! This ride God has us on is like one of those triple loopers :eek: :eek: :eek: You come out of one loop and are flung into the next one. The devil loves upside down and backwards. :p

No sooner had I written my whine when Steinar comes home to report his final meeting with the worship pastor. If we had any doubts about cult-like signs they're GONE...

No, he cannot be Steinar's friend if we leave this church.
Confidentiality is not biblical, Matt 18:18 is proof of that. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
We are absolutely not to tell anyone about what has happened, duh?
We have either misintepreted or what we think we heard was never said.
There is no such thing as "your own time, in your own home" all time is church time.
Steinar is to call and report his reasons for not being at church.

Steinar assured him that why he did or did not come to church was non of his business.

No sooner had we worked our way through this when a friend (assistant pastor from a former church) called us in tears. He had been our support and helped us out of the abusive former place, He has since been looking for a new job himself trying to get out, 2 years in hunting. :( The teaching has now become so twisted that he finally felt he had to address it. The attack has been brutal. We are the only people he could think to turn to. We assured him God is going before him. Amazing!!!

Whatever God is about - He's about and this day to day life looks like it's going to be a little more challenging than we anticipated. Abuse must be of epidemic proportions.

We're discovering like many others that what happens to good men when they decide to do something about evil - can be pretty evil itself.

[hornblower]

No sooner had I written my whine when Steinar comes home to report his final meeting with the worship pastor. If we had any doubts about cult-like signs they're GONE...
No, he cannot be Steinar's friend if we leave this church.
Confidentiality is not biblical, Matt 18:18 is proof of that.
We are absolutely not to tell anyone about what has happened, duh?
We have either misintepreted or what we think we heard was never said.
There is no such thing as "your own time, in your own home" all time is church time.
Steinar is to call and report his reasons for not being at church.


Oh how this stuff just drives me up a wall!
How can anyone call themselves a christian and say that?

[Jerry]

Confidentiality is not biblical, Matt 18:18 is proof of that. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Dear Anna,,,,,,
WHO IS THIS FRICKIN IDIOT !!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: I am sooooooTriggered right now !!!!!!!!! If I had the money I would fly to Norway and that guy and I would run a three legged race to the ER to get my size 10 boot removed from his ass!!!!!!!!!Jesus in Matt 18 is talking to His Disciples,,,period.....not you ,,,,not me,,,,,,not to Christians in general !!!!Here is a good paraphrase of Matt 18/18,,,,,,To the disciples remember Jesus knows he is going to be taken out of the world......"Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven"....ie; If you tell them it is so in heaven they will believe you,,,,so whatever you say is true here they will think it is also true in heaven.........THEN to paraphrase 19 & 20,,,,,,So take counsel with each other that your decisions be true,,,,,,and I will approve you..........Sweetie in the "Greek" THAT,is what the thrust of those verses means ;) Stiener to call as to why he is absent ?????? THATS NUTS!!!!!! Stiener shouldn't even wish that moron "Gods Speed" !!!!!!!!!!
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I am so mad !!!!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,love Jerry

[Anna Marta]

it's nearly 1 am and I am unable to sleep. Steinar is in there snoring like a steam engine :rolleyes: How is it that men can sleep? I wish I had a waffle mind instead of spaghetti in the brain. Actually I think he is emotionally exhausted.

He admitted if this were a few years ago it would have seriously screwed (uh, he used another word) with his brain and he'd have liberally distributed pieces of his mind around. Today he is able to see it as crazy. A few years ago I would have seen it was crazy and tried to calm him down.

It is time for the old Viking to reappear and do a little violence to the atmosphere around here. He's nearly too quiet. It's not normal that I am the one ready to rip someone's head off :mad: Has he actually gotten that peace that passes MY understanding. Or am I going to see Mount St. Helen's when I least expect it? :confused:

If anyone is roaming around I sure would appreciate some prayer. I'm not exactly scared, but this is kind of eerie. :( I have a BAD feeling about it all - kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Jo Jo]

Holy COW - you deserve the whole cheese wheel and this is no whine.

When do these people go from seeming normal, to thinking they own us and interpreting scripture in new ways? *eep* It's like twilight zone.

This is the miserable, ackey-breaky time of all this stuff. At least you have others there with you who see first hand what is happening. We are with you too, praying and hoping for the best. Fortunately you are already in the process of getting this all sorted out and getting away from there, but it doesn't make it any easier. :( I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

[Jerry]

Thinking more about this :D I think they end up confusing themselves about what the Bible is ,,,,,,because they tend to "Spiritualize" the text....To be sure there are many "Spiritual" passages........But there is also a very large portion of scripture that is intended to counsel about living in the "Flesh" and isn't "Spiritual" at all........Matt 18/18 is a good example of Christ cautioning them to not become so "Heavenly" that they are no "Earthly" good ;) .....God gave us "Flesh Bodies" that we might learn,,,,,,,,,,,The Bible is the "Owners Manuel" ;)
Love Jerry

[Carmen]

I'm getting out the cheese and crackers. That is a crackpot place.

"No, he cannot be Steinar's friend if we leave this church."

Exclusivity and isolation is definitely something that sects do.

"There is no such thing as "your own time, in your own home" all time is church time.
Steinar is to call and report his reasons for not being at church."

They are taking up all your time - meaning that you can't serve God outside a church building or not when on church business? They are monopolizing you? That is also something that sects do.

Check out Robert J. Lifton's criteria for thought reform, although that may not be an eye-opener anymore now that that couple has warned you.

"Here you will find a set of criteria, eight psychological themes against which any environment may be judged. In combination, they create an atmosphere which may temporarily energize or exhilarate, but which at the same time pose the gravest of human threats."

http://www.csj.org/infoserv_articles/lifton_robert_thoughtreform.htm