Asking hard questions

[Anna Marta]

I am asking myself some hard questions:

What is it about me that drew me toward the abusive churches?
How long does "getting over it" take?

At one time I was in a mainline denomination which tends toward the intellectual approach to bible study. I enjoyed that. Then I was exposed to "the simpler study aproach and the more demonstrative forms of worship". I began to think that I thought too much as suddenly there were simpler explanations for issues that had seemed much more complex to me.

I also thought there was something wrong with me because I just couldn't get all worked up with a half hour of singing the same kind of choruses repeatedly. I left feeling empty and guilty for not being in ecstacy like everyone else. And believe me I tried... :eek:

I began to resent hearing that those who loved traditional worship and had some knowledge of church history and the creeds and who questioned out of context quotes were referred to as "them" and that "they" were not in possession of revelation knowledge from the Holy Spirit. We saw we had entered a "we" vs. "them" world of labels. Needless to say, I hid the fact that I was a secret "them"!!! :(

[Jerry]

I began to resent hearing that those who loved traditional worship and had some knowledge of church history and the creeds and who questioned out of context quotes were referred to as "them" and that "they" were not in possession of revelation knowledge from the Holy Spirit. We saw we had entered a "we" vs. "them" world of labels. Needless to say, I hid the fact that I was a secret "them"!!! :(

Dear Anna,,,,
Those of us who have been exposed to the "Light of Truth" all feel as you do......In point of fact,Christ promised that God would accomidate,within moral principals,our various styles of worship .....That each form of worship would have it's place in the coming "Kingdom".That God would accept all our varied "Gifts",our offerings of devotion.............. Matt 14 vs 1-4 Special attention to verse 2 ;)
Love Jerry
P.S. They read what it says,but they don't read what it says ;)

[dougjb]

Hi Anna Marta,
You raised some great questions. When I got involved in churches that were abusive, I was clueless as to the whole idea of abusive churches. When I became a Christian, I assumed [falsely] that if you were a Christian or claimed to one, then one would act like a Christian. The whole idea of manipulation, authoritarianism, and the perversion of Scripture was alien to me. If there were problems, then it was confined to individuals. It took years before I fully realized that abusive activities could be institutionalized and implimented into a system of beliefs and actions that mimmic Christianity without necessarily being Christian. Maybe this is why these psuedo-churches need to isolate people from where the historic orthodox Christian faith may be taught. A little side note - I have found that abusive churches hate confessions, creeds, and church history - I wonder why these heretics hate them could it be that they hate the truth?:D

Some food for thought
Dougjb

[SpinningHead]

Ooooooooooohhhhhhhhh!!!!! GREAT QUESTIONS!!!!!!

I think the answer to your #2 questions begins with answering #1 question. Obviously there isn't an easy answer and everyone's answer is different but if I had to take a stab at an answer in a sentence or two (or three or four:p )...I'd say....(and someone else might have some different answers, these are just my thoughts for the pool of information/discussion ~ Good post by the way!)

What was it about you?? (And I'm probably projecting here so feel free to read into it that this was about me, but maybe it would help you too??) One of two things or maybe a bit of both:
1) You were conditioned at some point to submit to/accept (Christian) authority - so many church pastors/leadership pull that "touch not the annointed" card. If you dare question them, get ready for the "rebellous" or "in sin" or "out of God's will" card to be thrown at you. :mad:
2) You were not grounded enough in who you are as a person/Christian to know enough to call a spade a damn shovel. And if you suspected it, you didn't have a solid grasp on the information to know for sure what (and why) exactly is the issue here. BUT you did want to believe that they'd never hurt you, Christians wouldn't act like that!! (Been there!! Done that!! Watched my husband shed tears at how "Christians" could treat us that way!!" :mad: )

The more I know who I am as a person, have my intentions in check, willing to own up to my actions, take responsibility for what teachings I allow into my head...the more I accept that I have learned a great deal from when I was hurt, I can tell you sistah, just how much I'd pay attention to those warning signs should they surface again! And just knowing how I would do things differently, knowing I'd pay attention to warning signs and knowing I'd speak up and get my freckles out of there helps me to "get over it" a little more each day.

[Anna Marta]

Spinninghead,
At my age I was conditioned to submit to ALL authorities whether they be teachers, policeman or pastors! No wonder it's been a shock for many of us to find out a lot of authorities were/are false! I remember reeling during the 60's and 70's as just about everything I held sacrocanct was revealed to be tainted. :( I don't have freckles, but Steinar says to tell you and he's taking his out (med en gang) meaning right away!

Jerry,
Therefore, if one sees signs and miracles then it must be... How could it be anything else?

EGG on my face, humble in my pie and brown gravy on my ice cream - By George I got it! :D Didn't I? :rolleyes:

[Jerry]

Jerry,
Therefore, if one sees signs and miracles then it must be... How could it be anything else?

EGG on my face, humble in my pie and brown gravy on my ice cream - By George I got it! :D Didn't I? :rolleyes:

Yes Anna,,,,,,,,You and I, we got it !!!!!!!!! Now for the hard part,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Figuring out who the "Pretenders" are :)
Love Jerry

[hornblower]

Anna in the answering to question one..........maybe you are a seeker of something deeper so you went to that 'new' thing. I did that too. Maybe you were hurt to begin with, so you were seeking some compassion and comfort, and abusive people seek out needy people to abuse.
Anyway there are so many of us I dont think you are to blame in any way. Nor are any of us to blame for what other people do to us. There is evil in this world we have to learn somehow that its not a fantasy world that we live in and this is the way it is unfortuantely. All through the bible good people were hurt and in church...........look at Jesus Himself?
I think the answer is to learn what to look for and to stay away from it.

There certainly is nothing wrong with traditional services in churches or traditions and history. I enjoy and get a lot out of that and there is great benefit from all of it. These people that ever said anything against it are just ignorant thats all. Unintelligent stuck in their own ignorance thats what I say.

On that matter I would advice any person to search the truth in the bible that simply states that true worship in Gods eyes, perfect religion, is visiting orphans and widows in their distress. Yep all of that nitty griity stuff the church does so seldom!
I dont know how long for me or for you............as long as it takes. If my heart stays broken I will be right along side of many saints that mourn and wail for this world and its lack of love.
I was so encouraged last night and yesterday watching all of the nine eleven victims that have not gotten over any of it. Their pain speaks to my heart. I have suffered violence many times. I have lost loved ones to horrible deaths and I have lost friends that cannot stick by me in my pain. Nobody says anything to the 9/11 victims about their painful condition. Why should they? They have suffered hell, well so have I. So have you. So have a whole lot of people. God does not condemn us for feeling hurt, only people do that!

[newlife]

Anna Marta,

I agree with what you said about being taught to respect authorities and that opened some doors to being drawn to abusive churches. I grew up in an authoritarian home...my father's word was law. But that's how he grew up as well and he thought that that was the way that it was supposed to be. Now my dad realizes the error of his fathering ways (because it strained the very relationships that he truly does cherish) and he has admitted his mistakes many, many times to my sister and me. But, needless to say, because authoritarianism was the "norm" of my childhood, I think that subconciously I looked for it in other areas of my life...I think the word is homeostasis. I got into an abusive church, my sister was in an abusive marriage. It seems that something from our childhoods predisposed us to abuse.

I think that you've hit on a couple of other points...there is a sense of pride factoring in here as well (the "we" vs. "them" mentality)...I know that that was true at least for me...that I felt that I was spiritually "superior" to others who didn't submit to spiritual authority..."I" was denying myself...the sign of a "true" disciple because I willingly submitted myself to the abuse. :confused: HA!

Also, the abusive "church" cult seemed "alive". People were excited and "entered into" praise & worship with great zeal: dancing, clapping, raising their hands, singing with gusto, etc. It was something that I hadn't seen in other churches that I attended and it was exciting! (The Pentecostal church that I grew up in was also demonstrative in their praise & worship...again something else from my childhood.) I always enjoyed being exuberant in life...I mean, I can scream and shout when my college football team gets a touchdown, so why wouldn't I be even more excited about my Lord and Savior? But I learned that the people were "trained" to exhibit the zeal. If we didn't perform well enough to suit the "pastor", we would get rebuked. Sometimes, he would literally stop praise and worship to "correct" us if we weren't doing a "good enough job"! :eek:

Your second question is a challenge...how long does "getting over it" take? I don't know if I'll ever be over it, but I'm definitely more aware of things now. Yesterday, as there was a lot of reflection about 9/11, I heard several people who were directly involved and were interviewed say that they think about it every day. Will they ever get over it? Probably not...it will affect them for the rest of their lives. I heard Mayor Giuliani being interviewed and he said something that was very sad to me. He said that Sept. 11 was a beautiful day (weather-wise)...a perfect fall day in NYC, not a cloud in the sky. Now, he said, whenever there's another beautiful day, he automatically thinks of that awful day...so I realized that he can't even enjoy a beautiful day any more, the terrorists ruined that for him forever. Do we ever completely get over traumas in our lives? I think that we can learn to cope, but those traumas will affect us throughout our lives.


newlife

[newlife]

Anna in the answering to question one..........maybe you are a seeker of something deeper so you went to that 'new' thing. I did that too.

That's how it was for my husband and me too...we saw the superficialness (is that a word???) of the church and wanted something deeper...I guess it goes back to the thread that Voyager started about the empty void feeling in our souls...that's what we felt and we were looking for something that would fill it...and we ended up in an abusive, authoritarian Bible-based cult! :eek:

[jane]

Asking that question is akin to asking a rape victim what they did to deserve/ or put themselves in a position to get raped.

In social work, we call that BLAMING THE VICTIM.


There are sociopaths out there....perpetrators....rapists, theifs....

who make it their CAREER to be great conartists........


What could you do to not have had it happen?

Become a hermit in your own home, trusting no one, seeking no relationship, seeking no God....

because in my opinion; you were hurt because

1) You were seeking God

2) You were seeking God's people for fellowship

3) You opened yourself to trust a group of people that you thought would be like family.

IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT NOT EVEN IN A SMALL, SUBCONCIOUS WAY!

Just my opinion....NOW you have the experience of being spiritually abused...before you didnt; HOW COULD YOU HAVE KNOWN?


Love,
jane