Latest Bulletin From Dfw!!

[ex-shep]

speaking of victories

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/15387639.htm

[ex-shep]

speaking of victories

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/15387639.htm

On a side note keep of the members in prayer. Good friend of mine at work. She was battling health issues, was fired from the same employer I was at, and I am sure this latest news is going to hit her like a ton of bricks.

[Jerry]

Seems to me "Hornbuckel" got a slap on the wrist,,,,,,I would lock him up and throw away the key ;)
Love Jerry

[hornblower]

Seems to me "Hornbuckel" got a slap on the wrist,,,,,,I would lock him up and throw away the key ;)
Love Jerry


Oh Jerry can you believe all of this nonsense?????????? Those poor women. Did you hear what the victim said to him at the end when the victims get to face their attacker????????? Now that is some heavy duty spiritual abuse my friend. What Id like to know is how on this earth can these men like you know who go to see him and try to help him????????? You know he went to see Pres Clinton too after the publicity about his escapade and I thought that was so good of him to do that. I did! Hoping that some how he could repent for the problem he obviously has always had. (leaving out their names hopefully you know who I mean, I have several of his books and Ive been to his church and I watch him on tv from time to time but this does it for me.)


But that was not knocking someone out and raping them and Clinton, idiot that he is, sorry if weve got lovers of Clinton here, is not a pastor of a church.
I dont think I have to ask where you are on this one about the dallas cowboys guy or this other pastor..........Im disappointed severely dissapointed.

Everyone needs forgiveness from God and second chances and thirds but well this whole thing brings back all of my memories about the police trying to tell me about my own pastor and how he was interferring in the investigation and so forth when the attack happened to my own daughter.

I wish I could go and wrap my arms around these poor girls...................women whatever.
Did I tell you that when I was working in a retail store in grandprairie that I talked to pastors wives who would come in to shop and they told me their husbands were on meth......................Im serious. This was years and years ago. Probably the same church or maybe they all stick together like a drug ring or something..............Nothing NOTHING surprises me any more. Unfortunately.

Im afraid the church is over. The organised church.
Completely over with.
I dont know what is going to happen now?

[jimsmuse]

Im afraid the church is over. The organised church.
Completely over with.
I dont know what is going to happen now? From Hornblower



Maybe we should celebrate "It's" demise. ;)

Maybe we can finally get on with what Jesus wants us to do and be about the "outsiders" not the "Insiders". Ya know? :o

[mary]

Sick. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Pastors are getting away with "murdering" and raping the sheep and they get the lightest sentence available.

This story made me cry. :(

There is no justice on earth; there is no recompense here.

When I complained to the local police about what "pastor" did to me, the officer (who had spent 25 years in the vice squad) told me, "Well, we haven't had any other complaints about him" (no, because he's only been in the U.S. for a few years; before that, he was wreaking havoc and likely destroying lives in Europe) and "he's a pastor." (No! What news that was to me!) Far be it from law enforcement in a comfortable, suburban community even to question someone with "Reverend" in front of his name!

My "pastor" is probably on anabolic steroids. He has "the look." He may also be selling them for all I know. And he gets away with what he did to me; he gets to throw "'roid rages" and do whatever he wants to women; he's free as a bird.

It's been ten months... I am not getting a whole lot better. The more I see that he just gets to "skate," the worse it gets.

I'm happy for these women in this story... I just wish that all of us who were hurt could get some sort of justice.

mary

[newlife]

That's great news and I hope that it might send some chills up some other so-called "pastors" spines...wow, two in one week, we're doing good! Now, if we could get a few thousand more! ;)


Like, Hornblower said, though, I didn't like the comment at the end about moving on! Yeah, that's what we all hear, isn't it?


But I am definitely glad the guy is going to prison!




newlife

[SpinningHead]

There is no justice on earth; there is no recompense here.



Hi Mary,

I really like that you put out this observation. I have been struggling with observing that there is very little dignity and pride in today's society. People just dont' give a flipping Mexican jumping bean anymore.

But your observation creeps me out because in the back of my head I remember that Bible verse that talks about people believing evil is good and good is evil...something like that...anyone know what I'm talking about??

[jane]

It breaks my heart- 7 years of prison time is NOT enough....

and the attorney excusing his behavior for a drug problem ought to go to jail with him.



Out here in Connecticut; we had a catholic priest visiting in New Britian (heavly polish area) catholic diocese....

He was from Poland.

He was counseling a teen girl....

He raped her.........

He was arrested........AND ADMITTED THAT HE DID IT.

The news interviewed the polish parishoners.......

ALL SAID< "HE IS INNOCENT- that girl is a liar" "HE IS BEING ACCUSED FALSELY"

"THE PRIEST IS FROM GOD- HE DIDN"T DO NO SUCH THING"



and the priest continued to admitt his guilt- saying that in Poland- a 16 year old girl is "LEGAL" and it was consentual......!!!!!!!!!!!!!


and the parish held him innocent in their eyes- from God and didn't do anything sexual with the girl!!!!!!!!

and the girl was called a whore; liar; trouble maker !


Wonder how those parishoners would feel if it were them or their daughters!

Wonder HOW ignorant people can possibly be saying someone didn't do something that he admitted he did~!

sick world.


jane

[overcomer]

i have to say that this gives me hope and comes in perfect timing, just when all my insides are feeling so invaded and molested and tortured by words and manipulations and slander and lies, all to protect a bigshot preacher's name.
i have felt like screaming and running away from everyone because they just don't understand what violation is, what spiritual rape can do to a person.
oh praise the Almighty God for His mercies to let us see this judgment with our own eyes and hear the words we scream in the dark and in our spirits.
God help those women, God give them rest and healing and don't let satan enter their pain and cause them to lash forever.
bring them into a calm quietness of seeing God high and lifted up.
let them be still in soul and see Your face, let their tears be placed in Your bottle and keep them close to You.
oh my throat is filled because i want this so much for myself, for each of us who have been violated, spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally, relationally, - damaged by a horrifying act against Almighty God's people, through the institutions and traditions and power plays of men, those who call themselves shepherds but are acting out evil and wickedness, destroying Your people.
God have mercy, Lord have mercy, God have mercy on us.
God have mercy, Lord have mercy, God have mercy on us.
Oh my God have mercy Oh my God have mercy, stop them, clean Your church stop them, clean Your church.
You are our only hope.

[jimsmuse]

That's great news and I hope that it might send some chills up some other so-called "pastors" spines...wow, two in one week, we're doing good! Now, if we could get a few thousand more! ;)


Like, Hornblower said, though, I didn't like the comment at the end about moving on! Yeah, that's what we all hear, isn't it?


But I am definitely glad the guy is going to prison!




newlife



I'm sorry Newlife, that was from me, but I did not mean that people that have been abused should move on.

Hornblower was talking about the organized church and I just meant that if it goes down, maybe the Body of Christ could go on to do what we are supposed to do and be about the ones who need to hear and be loved on.

We have spent so much of the last 2 thousand years being sucked into "abusive pasturd orbit" that we haven't been set free to do what He saved us to do.

Does that make more sense? I am so sorry if you misread my intent. :)

[jimsmuse]

I'm sorry Newlife, that was from me, but I did not mean that people that have been abused should move on.

Hornblower was talking about the organized church and I just meant that if it goes down, maybe the Body of Christ could go on to do what we are supposed to do and be about the ones who need to hear and be loved on.

We have spent so much of the last 2 thousand years being sucked into "abusive pasturd orbit" that we haven't been set free to do what He saved us to do.

Does that make more sense? I am so sorry if you misread my intent. :)



Also, maybe if more of these idiots are tried and put in jail some others will wake up to what is going on under their noses.
This abuse thing crosses all sects and denominational lines. You can be part of a "mainline" denomination and have "cultish" aspects and leadership.

[mary]

Hi Mary,

I really like that you put out this observation. I have been struggling with observing that there is very little dignity and pride in today's society. People just dont' give a flipping Mexican jumping bean anymore.

But your observation creeps me out because in the back of my head I remember that Bible verse that talks about people believing evil is good and good is evil...something like that...anyone know what I'm talking about??

Hey, SpinningHead,

It's Isaiah 5:20, one of the first verses that came to me last October, when "pastor" threw me out for the reason that he did and my friend who was still in the church couldn't bring herself to call what he did "wrong." ("Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" And Verse 6 continues, "Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!")

I invite you to go on Dave Lynch's blogspot and see what's being done to him by "fellow pastors" where he lives. (www.gardenofrenown.blogspot.com; the relevant reference is the article regarding Solemn Assembly...) It's absolutely appalling what they're doing to one of the nicest people I've met on the Internet. Do these people never stop hurting each other? Have all but just a few of us turned into ravening wolves or what?!?! (See also Reg's latest thread because it sure ties into all this.)

No dignity anymore... No respect for people, for God's flock, even for unbelievers to whom we might witness and thereby be blessed for obeying the Great Commission... Oh, people have pride, but the wrong kind. There should be pride among us only in Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:31.) My old "pastor" is a seething cauldron of pride - in the things of this world. (And if you wound his [male] pride, out come the long knives...)

I grew up in a church and in an era where "pride" was kind of synonymous with dignity, as you referred to. One kept up appearances, dressed modestly, took care of your possessions to the best of your ability, etc. I think part of this had to do with gratefulness to God for giving us these blessings. Civil speech is part of it, too. I've been so guilty of uncivil speech, even lately, that I'm ashamed - so I'm part of it, too.

Reminds me of the story about the lawyer who worked in the same building for 25 years. There was a homeless guy who'd sit in front of the entrance, begging, every day for all that time. The lawyer would put some money into his cup and say, "Good morning, John!" The homeless guy would say something back like, "**** you!" This happened every day. One day, one of the lawyer's colleagues observed this and said to him, "How can you be pleasant to him day after day when he talks to you like that?" The lawyer said, "I refuse to let him ruin my good mood. I'll talk to him the way I want to, not the way he deserves to be talked to." Sort of what the Lord does with us, isn't it? I think we should repay the favor... But so many people don't, and I'm as guilty as anyone else...

mary

[jane]

Also, maybe if more of these idiots are tried and put in jail some others will wake up to what is going on under their noses.

nah, it's been my experience that the cloak of denial runs too thick for that...

they always think it will never happen in "their holy church" or by their "wonderful, God sent pastor".


jane

[beginagainrose]

I was just on another thread last nite talking about wanting my turn to see "my Haman's swinging from their gallows"... and to be sure reaping what they "sowed" is a good thing... this guy IS going to prison. There will be plenty of consequences for his actions there. (There was another high profile preacher that found that out...raped 3 times in prison... but, then he came out of prison and made a confession: "I Was Wrong". and God is still using him.) Yet, this morning, I turned on "a clay jar" word and was reminded just in the title of his sermon: "Bad Boys and the God Who Loves Them" how God taken the worst of us, when we are broken and contrite and....?.... I was humbled to be reminded "that such where some of you". As I listened about the life of real life people in the Bible who blew it badly - yet, God picked them - cleaned them up and used them, I had to admit it IS what God loves to do. Honestly, this is why I want to do a retreat that will include not just fallen sheep but fallen shepherds. If all we ever do is speak about the problem; what will change? My skin crawls to think of the things pastors do "in the name of God", yet, I believe my deepest healing will come when I take up the basin and towel and wash the feet of my enemies. Jesus did that for Judas KNOWing what he was going to do to him. Ah...AFTERWARD... what will God do with a "horn"; especially in prison? (I pray he reaches some other rapists and leads them to Jesus-may he blow his horn about The Mercy that still flows from Calvary.) Believe me, I was plenty angry again as all these headlines reminded me of what happened to me; but when the Lord came through the TV screen this morning and held out a stone to me?...that's why it's called Amazing Grace (perhaps God instructed that vessel in Dallas to show even a "horn-dog" some) - and my comfort is that Grace rejected is still Grace forfeited... when my dad (that raised me) used to talk about my father (his pastor!), he used to say, "God keeps the score"...and I would add...and settles it.:) There is an old story about a sheriff in the old west that like to catch outlaws. When he would catch them; he'd tell his possey(sp?) "Hang'em, it'll teach him a lesson". Till one day, HE broke the law and was caught. Someone cried out as they getting ready to string him up, "Forgive him; it'll teach him a lesson". Wow... could I just say here that no one is more surprised by my reply here than me!;)

[newlife]

I'm sorry Newlife, that was from me, but I did not mean that people that have been abused should move on.

Hornblower was talking about the organized church and I just meant that if it goes down, maybe the Body of Christ could go on to do what we are supposed to do and be about the ones who need to hear and be loved on.

We have spent so much of the last 2 thousand years being sucked into "abusive pasturd orbit" that we haven't been set free to do what He saved us to do.

Does that make more sense? I am so sorry if you misread my intent. :)

What I was referring to was at the end of the news article, it said, "After she stepped down, Wisch (the judge) said a few words of his own for Hornbuckle, church members, the victims and family members on both sides:

"It's time to go on with the rest of your lives," he said. "Close this book. Let it go and move on with your lives. Let this trial end here." "

I didn't really like that comment, because it just reminded me of so many people who have told me the same thing basically..."It's in the past, put it behind you and move on with your life." But it's just not that easy to do, and I wasn't physically raped by the cult leader.


love, newlife

[jimsmuse]

What I was referring to was at the end of the news article, it said, "After she stepped down, Wisch (the judge) said a few words of his own for Hornbuckle, church members, the victims and family members on both sides:

"It's time to go on with the rest of your lives," he said. "Close this book. Let it go and move on with your lives. Let this trial end here." "

I didn't really like that comment, because it just reminded me of so many people who have told me the same thing basically..."It's in the past, put it behind you and move on with your life." But it's just not that easy to do, and I wasn't physically raped by the cult leader.


love, newlife



Whew! Sorry, I made it all about me didn't I? :o :p

I think I am a little too paranoid. :D

[Carmen]

Praise to Buchanan, even though her mother had to read the statement for her. She stuck to it and has tried to do her best so that he can't hurt anyone else.

I agree that his sentence should be the maximum (maximum for rape should be raised, it isn't just any crime) - and no chance for drug therapy except cold turkey.

[overcomer]

so i'm not the only one who has gotten the subtle words 'move on' from the pulpit or from other places???
this is getting interesting and very 'illuminating'.
spiritual abusers must have a word book that they go by when they are trying to oust someone.
it is a shame it is not the Word of God.

[mary]

spiritual abusers must have a word book that they go by when they are trying to oust someone.
it is a shame it is not the Word of God.

Interesting that you make that observation, Overcomer... (I think I was musing in a post some months ago - or maybe it was the Scottish blogspot I go on frequently - that there must be some book that seminaries furnish that has buzzwords for those who would like to fashion their ministries into abusive ones... :o ;) )

BTW, welcome! I hope and pray you enjoy your time here and find rest and whatever else you need from us! I know I speak for everyone in this...

mary

[hornblower]

I'm happy for these women in this story... I just wish that all of us who were hurt could get some sort of justice.

mary
__________________


Mary and others here........these women did not get justice believe me. For what they have lost in their lives only God can give them any justice. Think of what would happen to these men in old testament times..........as if the law worked back then, which it didnt. Samuels sons were raping women too or blackmailing them to give them sex for their offerings, their tithing.........nothings changed. We shouldnt be surprised.

The boy that attacked my daughter and murdered another six year old little girl and then went on to murder another young man, (in the mental hospital) his case was never even brought to trial. Im sure he is out free and has been for a long time.
I prayed for him that very night to be saved. My best friend told me I had to do that. It was three in the morning I was in shock and couldnt sleep so I called her. So what does this make me????????? Insane I think. I never was really given a chance to be angry at him.

I dont blame anyone else for my actions in this. I guess in my own way Im just as guilty as these other people. For some reason I was angry at the pastor of my church and the stupid people that went there more than I was at the criminal.
Thats really not right when you think about it.

I dont know what is wrong with society any more or myself.
Well actually I do know what is wrong with me and why I am like this but Im still barely able to get half way normal after all of these years. I still have a hard time getting the placing of guilt in the right place.
I blame this on the hidden sexual abuse I suffered as a child. My Mother was also this way of course and my Dad they are the ones that taught me this........ unkowingly but they did teach it to me and now I know its wrong.

Then later on when I was being beaten up in my marriages often people when they learned of it would blame me saying "what did you do to him to make him do that to you?"

Theres no telling what I have taught my children without knowing it.
Honestly if it werent for Jesus talking to me and the word teaching me I wouldnt know anything at all about justice.

Really you guys when you read the new testament does Jesus sound like a woose to you? He sure doesnt to me. He stood up to everyone everytime. Even in His death He was still putting them in their places. Even to the cross and the theif hanging there and his mother coming to see him..........He was tough as....... well ................NAILS!
You know unless it happens to those judges daughters and maybe even then I dont think they would get it!

If you dont live here and you havent been following this case these women have been totally ostrasized by that congregation.
What else is new?

Please Jesus just come on back would ya?

[Carmen]

I think that it is because society and churches deal falsely with such cases, that double damage is done.

Some of the abused may have baggage from earlier relationships, I know I do, they might not have been taught how to defend themselves.

Churches blame incidents on the abused, ostracize them and their families, and try to sweep it all under the rug, with an attitude of, "But what would the neighbors say?" They especially protect people in "authority". Because Christians say they represent God, but then do not practice justice, they are doing exactly the opposite of what they should be doing.

The lack of justice and mercy in church environments - character traits that God has, and God never changes - are what cause more damage than ever.

Normal society is even worse, it has always preyed on the weak and given extra privileges to people in "authority" or those that are rich. But when Christians do this it stinks to high heaven even more. Pah! I am spitting on that! :mad:

The right attitude is to braid the whip (gives one time to think and cool off a bit so that one acts out of just anger, not rage), and then use it on the reprobates, sending them out of the temple. Going to court was a brave thing to do, it is sad that those women were ostracized for it. Jesus was even killed for it. So not much has changed in 2000 years.

Informing society and churches of the effects of abuse, especially when things are swept under the rug, might help. Encouraging more openness and justice might have a positive effect. I think that is part of the "salt of the earth" that we are supposed to be. Jesus' coming did cause a lot of people at least try to be better, even if they didn't believe in the gospel. A Christian presence that insists on truth and justice like he did, would be a continuation of his work. It may be an uphill battle, but I still think it should be done.

[hornblower]

I think that it is because society and churches deal falsely with such cases, that double damage is done.

Some of the abused may have baggage from earlier relationships, I know I do, they might not have been taught how to defend themselves.

Churches blame incidents on the abused, ostracize them and their families, and try to sweep it all under the rug, with an attitude of, "But what would the neighbors say?" They especially protect people in "authority". Because Christians say they represent God, but then do not practice justice, they are doing exactly the opposite of what they should be doing.

The lack of justice and mercy in church environments - character traits that God has, and God never changes - are what cause more damage than ever.

Normal society is even worse, it has always preyed on the weak and given extra privileges to people in "authority" or those that are rich. But when Christians do this it stinks to high heaven even more. Pah! I am spitting on that! :mad:

The right attitude is to braid the whip (gives one time to think and cool off a bit so that one acts out of just anger, not rage), and then use it on the reprobates, sending them out of the temple. Going to court was a brave thing to do, it is sad that those women were ostracized for it. Jesus was even killed for it. So not much has changed in 2000 years.

Informing society and churches of the effects of abuse, especially when things are swept under the rug, might help. Encouraging more openness and justice might have a positive effect. I think that is part of the "salt of the earth" that we are supposed to be. Jesus' coming did cause a lot of people at least try to be better, even if they didn't believe in the gospel. A Christian presence that insists on truth and justice like he did, would be a continuation of his work. It may be an uphill battle, but I still think it should be done.

thankyou carmen for this post. I know this thread isnt about me and I dont want anyone to think Im trying to make it be since those victims of this hrrid crime deserve all of the attention they can get............but this helps me personally to know Im not alone.
my neighbor across the street the one who loves to think how much better she is than I am and what a good job she could do of taking care of my daughter and my husband too is literally turning her back away from me now outisde when she sees me.
The anger inside of me feels very justified ans my husband is really standing by me all of the way on this one. He is p******** too. Thats huge for me. Its hard because I hate being so alone but honestly Id rather be alone than walked all over any more. I want to crawl into my corner and never come out but Im trying really hard this time. I know this woman does not really walk with the Lord, she thinks shes too righteous to need Him. Actually the longer I live the more I see this is the biggest problem for most people. They cannot will not see their faults. Maybe I shold be glad that I all too well see mine.
I feel bad that she is older and that she may be getting mixed up I do have mercy in my heart but then again..........Im right here, she is always able to come over and ask for forgiveness I will gladly forgive her and have already done so.
I just cannot keep letting people run over me though everytime i share. They want to know me they want to be a friend but then when they know the truth about my life that Im not just a painter and crafts person and Im not just personality and makeup hair etc..............I have a depth...........a personal depth that I share with Jesus and no one evidently can touch that without love in their hearts. Pride certainly will kill whatever there was in the fiirst place. Is this making some sense?
On the other hand my other friend will not stop asking me to forgive her so much so Im wondering whats going on here? Maybe God is trying to show her something about herself? I dont know what is going on. We write to each other. Have been friends for years and years..............but heres the thing..........I know I can never count on her for anything she wants a mother.
I cannot be a mother any more for anyone especaill fifty year olds.
Forgive me this is so off the subject but I do feel like an old crime victim that never got her day in court and never will. Ostrasized still for what happened to my daughter in the outiside wold and in the christian arena too.
What trully amazes me about the christians is that once they know about me then their only avenue to understanding a visious crime is satan.............then when satan doesnt do it for them they still blame it back on me.
You see I must have let it happen somehow or it wouldnt have right?????????????????
What stupid thinking could produce such idiocy???????? Do they really believe that what they say to me will just go unnoticed by God?
Im sorry I cant even pray for them right now Its too much for me.