Glad to have found you.

[judym]

Just a quick note as I want to dash off to church :) (seriously). I am in recovery from spiritual abuse. I still go to church - where and when i want to. I am not a member of any one church as of yet and I may never be. My husband and I are in ministry and I minister to a lot of people in my area who have been and are being spiritually abused. It is my joy to see them move from a "have to" mentality regarding God to a "want to" mentality. I am still working on it myself but doing much better thankyou! I have to say that it was God and God alone who freed me. I literally felt sick to my stomach sitting in church one day and had to leave mid-service. I have been back to an occassional service there and that has been BIG for me. At times I would far sooner kick the people there in the shins as speak to them but God has given grace and I can see them as fellow-sufferers. This kind of church has done great damage to me and my family and I'm just grateful to the Lord that we are all doing as well as we are. To me, that says we had the real thing going on along with the junk. It is harder to stay involved and minister in this whole sick mess than it is to just leave entirely. I feel like I am called to be a missionary to the body of Christ. It is my joy to love them and minister to them as they ask for my help. In case you take that as arrogant and spiritual superiority on my part - I am not. God has me here ministering. I am not trying to minister to anyone. As I said I go where and when i want to go to church. I am a Biblical Counselor and wait for people to come to me to ask for help in whatever area. Invariably their relationship with God comes up and we explore what that is to them. What a joy to be able to help them sort out spirituality from religiosity and to come into a more healthy relationship with God. God meant for good what was meant for evil in my life. Thanks for letting me share.

[Jerry]

Welcome Judy,,,,Frankly many here on the board are going to be sceptical of your post.I confess that right now I am sceptical,,,,but also feel that some are called to minister some called to share.Some called to do both,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we'll see .....
Love Jerry

[Katie]

Welcome Judy. I understand what Jerry is saying. However, I would like to say that I see a different tone in your post than many of the folks who stop in here to "fix" us.

To begin with, you identify yourself as someone who has experienced spiritual abuse, and you have shared some of your struggles because of the abuse. Secondly, while you have said that you minister to others as the opportunity arises, you have not presumed that you are here to "minister" to the people in this forum.

I believe those in the body of Christ most able to minister to victims of spiritual abuse are those who understand the experience themselves. Also it helps if they are not biased by their personal involvement in the church but able to see beyond the institution to help those who are sorting through the devastation they've experienced at the hands of the church.

This requires someone who can understand and accept that person while they deal with doubts, beliefs, skepticisim, anger, and cynicism and the rest of the rubble they are left with after experiencing spiritual abuse.

Anyway, I hope that as we recover we all become people who are willing to serve in helping others along the path of recovery. Much of that happens already on this board, even while we are in the midst of pain and struggling.

[Jerry]

Katie,,,,,,,,,,,,people like you make me smile :D nice post to JudyM ;)

[Katie]

Back at ya Jerry! You always make me smile. :)

[Janice]

Welcome Judy,,,,Frankly many here on the board are going to be sceptical of your post.I confess that right now I am sceptical,,,,but also feel that some are called to minister some called to share.Some called to do both,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we'll see .....
Love Jerry


DITTO!

[judym]

Thankyou for your responses...........I think! I guess i really didn't expect to be suspect. :eek: Oh well, everyone is welcome to their own belly button - oops! I mean opinion for what it's worth. :p No, I am not here to fix anyone. At one time I would have been but 'surprise surprise' - not this time! :) Nobody is asking me to fix them here, i don't think. I'm here to share my own experience, strength and hope. I just enjoy chatting with others whom I feel I am on the same page with.

I guess when you talk about being called to minister, my response to that is, I am who I am, where I am, doing what I do to the glory of God and under His direction and NOBODY elses. I also like what I do and if the results of my ministry are any indication, the people I serve like what I do too and I would say God's blessing is on it. I live in what is termed The Bible Belt. Some people who come to me, leave church but find God. Some go back at some point - for others, they still hurt way too much and it does bad things to them to hear certain Christian teachings. They hear them different than others or maybe they are just more honest. :rolleyes: Some stay going to church but with a different attitude toward the leadership. They put God in the place of authority in their lives instead of the leadership of the church. Some people keep going to church but maybe not as much - at least only when they want to - not out of guilt or compulsion. Whatever happens, it is usually a long painful process because most of us are so brain-washed and in denial.

It took me until about an hour before I left for church to decide whether or not to go this morning. I went because I wanted to sat through it, enjoyed it and went to my friends for lunch. She doesn't understand my 'do what you want to do' kind of philosphy but at least she has stopped giving me subliminal messages about being in church and wearing dresses and submitting to my husband, etc. I kindly let her know if she does and she laughs and backs off. We agree to disagree and just enjoy each other where we do agree. Which is on a few things!!!!

Anyway, nice to chat. Thanks for listening! Hope to hear more from any of you out there who care to share.

[leelees]

perhaps i just believe stuff to easily, but i would like to chat to you judym, as im sure others will to. Im not so skeptical, perhaps i should be, i dont know..perhaps other people (such as jerry) here have had more experience with phonies on this site so they can pick out the bad fruits. :o

[Jerry]

Ok,,,,,,,this is good :D

[leelees]

huh? :confused:

[Willow]

Hi Judy... glad to have you on board! I'm like the others and get a little gunshy around the words "ministry", "leadership" and such. I see that you are not using those words in a way to set yourself up though... but more in a way of telling us who you are and where you are at.

Welcome!
Amy aka Willow

[judym]

Hi leelees! thanks for the vote of confidence. Jerry, i'm very new to doing this kind of thing, so i guess i don't really know where you are coming from. i'm a pretty direct person so just tell me whatever you need to. anyway, leelees, what did you mean by chat with me? Do you mean in these posts. i'm glad to do that.

[Willow]

I just realized you didn't even mention the word leadership! See... I superimposed it on top of the word "counselor" I guess.

[judym]

Hi Amy! i can understand 'gunshy' about those words but this is who i am. If i tried to leave out certain words to not give a certain impression of myself then i wouldn't be me. And if i'm not being me who will be me?:) Anyway, i like being me.

Thanks for your kind response Willow. I like the name Willow. We have 2 huge willow trees on our front lawn and we run a B & B called the Willows. Why do you use the name Willow?

[Willow]

That's cool that you have a BB called willows.

I was a music director for several years. I miss the music, but am glad to be out of the power struggle.

I chose the name willow for several reasons.

1. it was my fav. tree in our back yard to swing on as a child.
2. it is rooted deeply by water sources
3. it is representative of mourning. There's a verse in ps. where the jews hung their harps on a willow and refused to play for their enemy.
4. it has medicine in it's bark
5. there's a gentleness about the way the branches sway.
6. It's looks fragile, but is really flexible and strong.

There's probably more... but that's the jist of it.

[judym]

Those are nice characteristics about the Willow tree Amy. Thanks for sharing. It makes me feel good about my Willows. My son and husband tease me sometimes that they are going to cut them down and of course i freak out because they love it when they get that response. They wouldn't do it though. They know i love my willow trees. :)

[judym]

Oh yes, Amy. I wanted to ask you what kind of music you directed. I love music too. My daughter is a voice and piano instructor and plays the organ and directs the choir at her church. I used to sing in groups but don't now. I would like to again but I don't want to get too involved in the church thing right now.:(

I'm a little 'gunshy' when it comes to church involvement. I'm not jumping in with both feet. Presently, I have one toe in and that feels okay to me just that way for now. The church has offered to give me an office where I could have my counseling ministy. I've said okay but still won't be attending or getting involved. Maybe never. They seem ok with that. They may change their minds when i tell people not to go to church unless they want to. :eek: Oh well!

[Willow]

That's pretty open minded for a church not to require you attend to be part of their ministry. Maybe you've found a good spot.

We did contemporary worship at the church I left. I found the music, taught it to the band and the pastor, transposed it for different instruments, and coached the pastor from behind as he and his wife led worship. The pastor was waiting for a male co-pastor to arrive that also did music. He didn't want to hire a person strictly for music. He also didn't acknowledge women in leadership. I just filled in for free until they got the "right" person. I did it for 8 years and finally burned out. A broken wrist was the catalyst for me to step out of the responsibility. Two years later I had found a job and moved to a larger city. That was 6 years ago. I'm now 44 and think I made the right decision. I'm building a retirement and working on my career. No more formal ministry for me... time to focus on personal responsibilities now. I kept thinking... if I take care of the church... god will take care of me. I've come to believe that god helps those who help themselves. Not selfishly, but responsibly. This protects me from expectations, and now my gifts are given freely without "needs" attached to them.

[judym]

Woo Hoo! Willow!! Good for you! I'm so sick of being used and abused by church leaders. The churches in this area (and i think everywhere in NA) are dying. I think they are doing ANYTHING in desperation thinking we're going down anyway so what the hey!!!!!! I don't mind if they want to give me an office. I charge my clients a small fee as a donation to my ministry because God has told me to. I think it's funny that the institute that abused me is now begging me to come and help them.:D

[Willow]

Hey... desperation can be a good thing. It makes a person/institution re-evaluate lack of results and take new approaches.... not that I ever want to be desperate again!!! The church I left is thriving and growing. Go figure! One might think it has to do with the blessings of God. I think it has more to do with the infrastructure and the approach to getting money and members. It's built more like a corporation than a body of believers.

[Jerry]

Jerry, i'm very new to doing this kind of thing, so i guess i don't really know where you are coming from. .

Dear Judym,,,,
Sometimes I don't know where I'm coming from :D Every once in a while we get someone in here that is on a mission to lead us to "Nirvana",,,,you know ,,,,save all us little lost sheep ???? Usually a kill a commie for Christ "Falwell" type ;) ............I guess your first post kinda hit me like that.Oh well they are my triggers not yours ;) Glad I was wrong :D
Love Jerry

[Janice]

That's cool that you have a BB called willows.

I was a music director for several years. I miss the music, but am glad to be out of the power struggle.

I chose the name willow for several reasons.

1. it was my fav. tree in our back yard to swing on as a child.
2. it is rooted deeply by water sources
3. it is representative of mourning. There's a verse in ps. where the jews hung their harps on a willow and refused to play for their enemy.
4. it has medicine in it's bark
5. there's a gentleness about the way the branches sway.
6. It's looks fragile, but is really flexible and strong.

There's probably more... but that's the jist of it.

It's nice to hear the GOOD characteristics of the Willow tree.

My memories of the Willow tree in our back yard when I was a child.....it was where my dad sent me to pick my own switch for him to hit me withwhen I was bad. :(

[Janice]

Some stay going to church but with a different attitude toward the leadership. They put God in the place of authority in their lives instead of the leadership of the church.

I think this is where I'm at right now.

My hubby's term for board member is up in Feb. I pray he doesn't run again. The "politics" of the church have gotten to him so much he can't even enjoy a service anymore.

Didn't mean to make you feel un-welcome. Glad you understand our "shakiness" in all of this.

[leelees]

yeah judym, to chat on this site on the posts and stuff.

[judym]

Willow: Security is a big thing w/people. Also love, acceptance and belongingness. They are needs. I guess if an institution meets these needs they will get numbers whether they are giving them nutritional spiritual food or whether it just looks good and is laced with arsenic. Yes, i can see how a church can be operating like a corporation. Yuck! I like the 12 Step way of doing organization. They Keep It Simple.