I need you all....

[SpinningHead]

I need you all to help me expand my mind or wrap my head around my thoughts to reign them in...

I've been stuck lately on a thought and it's probably just my analytical nature...

there are basically 2 types of people who leave SA churches....

1) The extremed weakened, beaten down person who has abosultey nothing left to give, nothing left to feel and just friggen' can't take it anymore. They either know they love God and can't stand "His people/church" or are very angry at God because of "His people/church".

2) The very strong person who maybe puts up with crap for maybe a year or so, giving the benefit of the doubt....but in the end, just can't pretend anymore of what's going on but in some ways is devastated that "God's people/church" would behave that way...even IF humans are involved...how could they do such things and justify them or pretend that it's all perfectly kosher??

Maybe there's a third...the person that is both 1 & 2.

I'm not sure how I feel about this observation or that I agree with myself...just putting it out there to round it out a bit.

Thoughts???

[peanut]

Wow...you have really got me thinking!!! Thanks.....i guess.....lol. It appears to me that you cannot pigeon hole SA as I think each experience holds its own fingerprint. However after following a lot of the threads it appears to me there are two patterns.

The first, and to me at this moment the most disturbing, is the controlling, spiritually oppressive cult organization. It appears that the folks that escape from this are extremely weakened in spirit and energy. I must confess reading many of the stories here have made me very fearful of churches outside the mainstream. It seems the very intense experience of pulling out and away is incredibly taxing. My heart breaks for these dear folks. Their plight of escape and recovery absolutely amazes me. Talk about strength!!!!!

The second group you mentioned seem to usually have been in ministry leadership....not necessarily pastorate but involved in areas of worship and missions. I find myself in this category and have been amazed by the number of folks here that have left due to dead or dying congregations, lethargic, self centered attitudes, selfishness but mostly folks actively trying to keep worship in the 1950's. I think people have been "called" to follow what they feel God is urging them to do and become so frustrated that there is an imobile force that
stiffles any change at all.

These are just my thoughts about this tonight. I have a huge respect for everyone who has experienced the tragic separation of leaving or losing what was thought to be true, real & just. I hope my words are understood....I have no desire to hurt anyone's feelings....

Anyway Spinsy....that's where I am at this point. Food for thought

Love,
Peanut

[beginagainrose]

Or, third... there are the BraveHeart FreedomFighters who know they are kingpins in the crosshairs of the evil one yet, press on in spite of heart's blood and betrayl's stiletto dagger that see the wheel within the wheel knowing there is a faithful remnant; even among the "cyber" faithful and long to be a part... no matter what the cost.... and pay it.

[newlife]

You know, SpinningHead, I kind of see myself in both of the groups that you described. Yes, I was extremely beaten down and burned out, with little to give any more, but I was also fed up with what I was seeing...it took me longer than what you said...1o years instead of 2, but I think that that was because I was trying so hard to make it work...but in the end, my eyes were opened to a lot of things that I just didn't like and couldn't justify away any longer...I saw the situation getting worse instead of better...in fact, it was actually getting downright scary with some of the things that were happening...my thoughts at the youth camp in the summer of 2004, just 2 weeks before we left, were "Is this how Jim Jones started out, conditioning the people to drink Koolaid?" And the scariest thing was these were the youth, and my eyes to opened up then to see that he could get them to do anything that he wanted them to do...that frightened me tremendously...for their sakes!

As Peanut said, when I left, I was definitely weakened in spirit and energy...it's definitely been a struggle the past two years...

I came away from my experience still loving God...I don't blame Him for what these people have done...but there's a lot of people that I have some pretty strong issues with!!!:mad:

newlife

[Jerry]

Dear Spinninghead,,,,
Very interesting post,got me to thinkin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Thinkin about the song "Sweet Dreams" by the Eurythmics(I think thats spelled right)....I think we who post here are a few of those who found their way out of Babel ;)
Love Jerry

[Zoe]

Hi SH,

My thoughts.

If feeling literally ripped apart & spiritually raped made me weak, then yes, I was weak.

I was also strong in character & integrity because I could not continue in unity with deceit, manipulation, power & control. To stay would have meant I was in agreement with them. I was not.

The following passage in The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse was very affirming to me.

Pg. 215, Are you supporting what you hate?

"By staying and contributing your time, money and energy, are you helping something continue when, honestly in your heart, you disagree with it? We believe that if everyone who was doing this would stop, many very unhealthy and abusive organizations would be unable to continue functioning. We also believe that if there was no such person as God, many religious places would not miss a beat."

[Patty]

How about a third group: Those of us who were thrown out and and then, shunned. Didn't really realize how horrible this group was until we experienced this. The domination that led to a total group think was shocking to us and we have never witnessed anything like this in our lives, let alone from a group of so-called professing christians.

But looking back, I am glad it happened, just to get us free. I actually thank God for it, though it was so painful.

[outcast]

I too feel as though I am a cross between the two types you mention here SH. And I am angry. Sometimes I am angry at them for what they did to me... okay maybe all the time I am angry at them. Every now and then I do feel anger at God. I know he doesn't deserve it, but I am working out my own theology right now about the omnipotence of God.

My calvinist roots influence me alot in this area. God is omnipotent, so things cannot happen unless he allows it. To say he doesn't allow it makes it sound like he is weak. I can no longer hold to the teaching of my old church that says that we tie God's hands with our own actions. Ultimately he is still allowing us to tie his hands and therefore he is still totally in control of everything. The disturbing question I struggle with in this area concerning my own SA situation is "why"?

Why did God allow me to go to a church like that and think that it was an okay church when all I wanted was a way to get closer to him? Why did he allow me to be duped? I know my age has alot to do with it. I was very young and naive. But what scares me about my old SA church was that for the majority of the time I was there the sensations and experiences I had totally seemed like God. They seemed pure and good and like they helped me to be a better person for the most part. Because of that I can no longer trust my senses to tell me if a church is good or not.

Sorry, I guess I got off on a ramble here. But, I do think I was a cross between the two types. I was in leadership too and as soon as I realized the type of people I had been serving "as unto the Lord" I got the heck out of there. I cannot support evil no matter how good it looks on the outside and those people are purely evil in my eyes now.

[Carmen]

How about just enlightenment as a reason for leaving?

In one situation, I was attending a certain kind of church, at different locations, but for many years just didn't practice my faith at all. When I did get back to it, it was just reviving the same old warped beliefs from earlier, keeping them alive by watching "Christian" television, specifically TBN and The God Channel - Ugh! I even sent some ministries money. Aaaargh! I got enlightened by reading discernment articles concerning the kind of beliefs I had which compared them with scripture. Shocked to find that they might not be in agreement, I did a lot of research on such beliefs and got to work comparing them with scripture myself. I realized that I wanted God's truth and grace, not lies and emotional experiences. I realized I had been deceived and was sad and angry about it.

I wasn't angry with God. In my case at least, I realized he let me fry in that mess, because it was what I had wanted. It was like the prodigal son taking his inheritance and spending it on junk, and not coming back until he realizes how bad it is living with pigs, that all he had was an illusion, and at the end not even that.

In another situation, I had already informed myself about cult-like churches, but got sent to one by relatives and friends. I was not angry with them for it, though, after I was spiritually abused. The pastor proposed to offer grace, hiding behind a church label that is known for it. Because of the recommendations, I went into a trap with my eyes shut, although I should have known better. That blunder resulted in a situation from which I am still recovering. The blunder itself did bring more enlightenment though. I will be on my guard at all times so that I don't get spiritually abused or abused in any way again, and I will do what I can to prevent this happening to others.

[Willow]

There are 2 articles at reality.org.nz on this. I read them in the late 90s. These were the outcome of an actual survey and analytical study in New Zealand.

http://www.reality.org.nz/articles/32/32-jamieson.html
http://www.reality.org.nz/articles/33/33-jamieson.html

[Willow]

I think some just get bored... quit growing... and phase out.

[ex-shep]

I skimmed the posts. Extremely accurate viewpoints. Willow has a point. There is the "I got bored and left" scenario.

If remember my research, the means and reasons one leaves a group:

1. Walkouts. Member perceives incapatabilty with beliefs or leadership

2. Intervention. Either a professional exit counseling and post group treatment or intervention by family members.

3. Excommunication/shunning.

4. Boredom factor. We will call it the "willow" factor. There are people who get bored with the group and get up and leave. "It just was not doing anything for me" There are those who quietly walk with no maladjustment what so ever -- and God bless them. I had a coworker in a catering firm a year after I left the bible school. She told me what happened. It was a controlling pentecostal church. Interestingly enough she dusted herself and moved on. I listened to her at length. It was clear she suffered no adverse reactions and was none the worse for wear.

I think all the other posters covered it. Gets a A in my gradebook. :)

[peanut]

Thanks Willow...I just read the first of your recommended articles. The revelations of how diverse yet similar our experiences continue to confirm my (our family's) decision to use the back door. Wouldn't it be nice to have some more up to date data? The emergent church appears to be quite all encompassing of those who have exited. My observation is that those who have departed have very deep and personal relationships with Christ and the Father. Even those crying in desperation at the inability to feel close and spend time in prayer and scripture....are they (we) not affirming faith by the level of dispair? The further down this road to recovery I travel, the more apparent it becomes that the personal relationship is the anchor. The loss of relationships within the church, although emotionally shattering really is what must take place, if that environment is not healthy, for that personal relationship to grow and evolve.

I am finding this discussion is causing a lot of grief and anger to surface. Not a bad thing.....these feelings need to be examined and experienced. Although not fun, a necessary evil to facilitate recovery.

I am rejoicing in the companionship of walking the recovery road together!

Love,
Peanut

[beginagainrose]

Just a post script to my first post on this.... I believe that sometimes God calls us "out" of the system; outside "the box" --and gives us Kingdom Assignments for the purpose of effecting (affecting?) real change... What we suffer in SA is the understanding of how desperately things need to change. That is why I am so grateful for this "recovery room". It allows us to acknowledge our pain and anger but can also challenge us to prayerfully find ways for God to use what has happened to us to encourage others "to love and good deeds" and perhaps, even... return and "go inside" to teach others what we've learned....when God shows us we are ready. I believe God allows destruction for re-construction. The challenge for me is that once you know the truth about how The Church is functioning (or dys-functioning;) ) you are more prepared to deal with it and teach others; for sadly, there will ALways be others - Laodicea makes it a given. But I have come to see what has happened to me "for the furtherance of the gospel" so to speak and part of my Kingdom Assignment - it has a purpose - God's purpose.. and I can trust Him. I just finished watching a sermon and I loved the first point he made; one of the best things we can do for others?... Live Gutsy! (Joshua 1:9 Be strong and of a good courage) I love that... since I am still here, not dead or crazy - I'd like to think I have accomplished that much-- ALL GLORY to GOD!!!.... So, press on, dear ones... fight the good fight of faith...and don't let the bozos win!:D

[Jerry]

and don't let the bozos win!:D


Says it all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I love it !!!!!!!

[leelees]

How about a third group: Those of us who were thrown out and and then, shunned. Didn't really realize how horrible this group was until we experienced this. The domination that led to a total group think was shocking to us and we have never witnessed anything like this in our lives, let alone from a group of so-called professing christians.

But looking back, I am glad it happened, just to get us free. I actually thank God for it, though it was so painful.

we share the same storey patty...i feel at a loss right now..i want to go to church and i will try one soon enough but i dunno, i have my concerns

[mary]

we share the same storey patty...i feel at a loss right now..i want to go to church and i will try one soon enough but i dunno, i have my concerns

Me, too: I'm in the "Patty & Leelees Group." Thrown out and then shunned. :(

Feeling especially bad this evening because a wedding is coming up that my friend is going to and talking about today and "pastor" will be officiating at... He isn't fit to ascend into any pulpit, to perform a wedding or to preach or to preside at a funeral or especially not to celebrate the Lord's Supper. :eek:

Why should he be officiating at a wedding when he tried his best to destroy my marriage and darned near did it? :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: My husband and I are still not okay. We are silent much of the time. We live in the same house but that's it: something is gone. We had a terrible episode in February over the subject of "pastor." I am still being treated by a neurologist... I have spinal damage that shows up on x-rays and MRIs...

I want this a****** fired so bad, I can taste it! I want the Lord to move on him!

I wasn't just thrown out of a church for my "failure to comply" with a particular request of "pastor's." I know I've been "refellowshipped" on this board as you told me last November, and I can't even express in words how much all of you, each of you, mean(s) to me... I still feel as though I've been thrown out of the very Body of Christ.

I don't know when there will ever be an end to this. I have to keep so quiet because of the nature of what "pastor" did to me... I have to pretend I "left;" I have to go along with the lies that the elders and presbytery have promulgated to all that I was the bad one, when I did nothing. The most grievous, blameworthy thing I did in "pastor's" eyes was to stand up for what I said on my own wedding day: "...forsaking all others..." That was what got me thrown out - and distrusted by my own husband at the same time.

We're going to take a little two-day vacation/jaunt starting tomorrow. We're still trying to put patches on "us." I don't really want to go, but I will because he wants to. Whatever.

All of this almost makes me wish I'd never left Catholicism. At least, in that and if you want to, you can sit in a pew every Sunday for 80 years and no one will ever bother you - or even speak to you. Right about now, that sounds pretty good.

Sorry for this being a downer...

mary

[leelees]

you are very special mary!

[Katie]

This thread was difficult for me because there has always been such a haze around the reasons we left.

Yeah, we left, at our own choosing, against their will, but under circumstances that left us no choice but to leave. But no one knows that. They've been told that we were unwilling to work through conflict and that we abandoned our relationships with them.

No one else knows that the pastor fabricated a power play against us and that we would have had to play along with his lies in order to continue attending there. We could never put ourselves under his leadership and teaching after what he has done. Therefore we are out of fellowship with all of our ex-friends.

I didn't want to leave the people that were like a family to me, but the pastor destroyed those relationships. Because of what he has implied and told people about us, people instantly began treating us as if we were lepers.

t doesn't matter that we didn't do anything wrong. Of course after all of that, it wouldn't be possible to rebuild those relationships again anyway, even if the truth ever came out. The damage is done.

We chose to leave, but it feels like we were kicked out, and people treat us as though we did something wrong and were kicked out because of it. Now that we're gone, we see things that we're glad we are no longer a part of.

So using ex-shep's categories:
1. We left and can't go back because our beliefs are incompatible with the leadership.

2. God intervened and brought us out of a toxic system when we didn't know any better.

3. We were also disfellowshipped and shunned because of the pastor's actions and the betrayal of many former friends.



Mary,
I understand how you feel. It is so difficult to see the pastor esteemed when you know what he's done while you have to bear the rejection and shame due to his corrupt behavior. It just stinks! and I think it always will.

[Theodora]

Thanks for having the courage to share something more of your story. How VERY painful. I'm in the middle of some rather complex "stuff," so am not able to spend much time on-line these days, but I just wanted you to know that I'd seen this post and that you and yours will be in my prayers.

More as able---

Love,

Theodora



This thread was difficult for me because there has always been such a haze around the reasons we left.

Yeah, we left, at our own choosing, against their will, but under circumstances that left us no choice but to leave. But no one knows that. They've been told that we were unwilling to work through conflict and that we abandoned our relationships with them.

No one else knows that the pastor fabricated a power play against us and that we would have had to play along with his lies in order to continue attending there. We could never put ourselves under his leadership and teaching after what he has done. Therefore we are out of fellowship with all of our ex-friends.

I didn't want to leave the people that were like a family to me, but the pastor destroyed those relationships. Because of what he has implied and told people about us, people instantly began treating us as if we were lepers.

t doesn't matter that we didn't do anything wrong. Of course after all of that, it wouldn't be possible to rebuild those relationships again anyway, even if the truth ever came out. The damage is done.

We chose to leave, but it feels like we were kicked out, and people treat us as though we did something wrong and were kicked out because of it. Now that we're gone, we see things that we're glad we are no longer a part of.

So using ex-shep's categories:
1. We left and can't go back because our beliefs are incompatible with the leadership.

2. God intervened and brought us out of a toxic system when we didn't know any better.

3. We were also disfellowshipped and shunned because of the pastor's actions and the betrayal of many former friends.



Mary,
I understand how you feel. It is so difficult to see the pastor esteemed when you know what he's done while you have to bear the rejection and shame due to his corrupt behavior. It just stinks! and I think it always will.

[Katie]

Thanks Theodora.

I pray for you whenever I see your name on the boards.
I know that you aren't able to be around as much as you would like.

I will also pray that your complex stuff gets resolved.

[ex-shep]

So using ex-shep's categories:
1. We left and can't go back because our beliefs are incompatible with the leadership.

2. God intervened and brought us out of a toxic system when we didn't know any better.

3. We were also disfellowshipped and shunned because of the pastor's actions and the betrayal of many former friends.



I must confess I want to express my congratulations and condolences at the same time. I was lucky because I was already debriefed on shunning techniques that I got out before the bible school administration even thought of it. It was definitely an act of providence which did it for me.

The good news you are out. I readily admit that it does not make the recovery process any easier, but it beats the alternatives.

[Carmen]

((((Mary)))),

Me, too: I'm in the "Patty & Leelees Group." Thrown out and then shunned. :(

... I still feel as though I've been thrown out of the very Body of Christ.

mary

Maybe you weren't thrown out, but in. :) That pastor made the church more like the world, and a bad part of it too. I think that we are a remnant that God is setting aside for himself as he has done throughout history. He accepts those that the world has rejected, and, I think, people like us that worldly and unmerciful churches have rejected. This doesn't mean that some or all of the churchgoers in our ex-churches were not Christians (only God knows that), but that they sure behaved as if they weren't Christians. We are made up of those that have been trampled on by others, but he loves us and cares for us even more, not despite what happened to us, but even because of it. We may have to wait a while to see it, but he will make sure that justice is done, that is part of his nature.

Carmen

[Janice]

((((Mary)))),



Maybe you weren't thrown out, but in. :) That pastor made the church more like the world, and a bad part of it too. I think that we are a remnant that God is setting aside for himself as he has done throughout history. He accepts those that the world has rejected, and, I think, people like us that worldly and unmerciful churches have rejected. This doesn't mean that some or all of the churchgoers in our ex-churches were not Christians (only God knows that), but that they sure behaved as if they weren't Christians. We are made up of those that have been trampled on by others, but he loves us and cares for us even more, not despite what happened to us, but even because of it. We may have to wait a while to see it, but he will make sure that justice is done, that is part of his nature.

Carmen

Very well put Carmen! I totally agree!

[SpinningHead]

These were ALL awsome thoughts!!!!!

But after reading everything...I think I'm still at my original 2 types of people...

While some evil SA church does some form of excommunication of a person/couple...that person/couple didn't leave of their own accord. So as extremely important of a subject that is...not quite applicable to the person who has left the SA church of their own accord. Although, don't get me wrong...I'm so GLAD that person is out of that situation!!

Someone mentioned a person who's enlightened...I'm thinking both the weakened and angry person is enlightened, hence the emotional response and decision to leave.

Someone mentioned a person who's bored...Now, who could get bored with an SA church?? ;) Oh, I'm just kidding....but seriously, I agree that a person could get bored w/ a dead church...but a SA church? We just haven't had a person join this forum because they needed healing from their boredom. Which, would be a funny post...Hi, I'm BoredofChurch...and my story of SA is well...I went to this church who's pastor embezzled $$, made passes at women, twisted Scripture and frankly...I'm bored of it all. :D

Thank you all so much!!!! All your posts have been kicking around in the back of my head...very thoughtful posts and nicely written.

My mind is still way open to additional thoughts and I'd love to hear/read any more posts on the subject.

Again...super huge thanks to all who responded!!


I need you all to help me expand my mind or wrap my head around my thoughts to reign them in...

I've been stuck lately on a thought and it's probably just my analytical nature...

there are basically 2 types of people who leave SA churches....

1) The extremed weakened, beaten down person who has abosultey nothing left to give, nothing left to feel and just friggen' can't take it anymore. They either know they love God and can't stand "His people/church" or are very angry at God because of "His people/church".

2) The very strong person who maybe puts up with crap for maybe a year or so, giving the benefit of the doubt....but in the end, just can't pretend anymore of what's going on but in some ways is devastated that "God's people/church" would behave that way...even IF humans are involved...how could they do such things and justify them or pretend that it's all perfectly kosher??

Maybe there's a third...the person that is both 1 & 2.

I'm not sure how I feel about this observation or that I agree with myself...just putting it out there to round it out a bit.

Thoughts???

[Cataract]

Interesting reading! Myself I have felt incredibly angry towards God with a 'why would you let this happen to me' kind of attitude.

I identify alot with what Outcast wrote in her/his post. For myself, years of never saying what I felt/was concerned about took its toil I think...and in the end after finding out it was (i think) maybe not true/all a lie I just about exploded with anger!!

[ex-shep]

Interesting reading! Myself I have felt incredibly angry towards God with a 'why would you let this happen to me' kind of attitude.

I identify alot with what Outcast wrote in her/his post. For myself, years of never saying what I felt/was concerned about took its toil I think...and in the end after finding out it was (i think) maybe not true/all a lie I just about exploded with anger!!

That is the toughest place to be. I have been there. It is excruciating painful. I wish there were some way we did not have to go through this phase, but most have to.

One thing that I had to remind myself is it was not my fault.

There are members in the forum who "virtually" walk with you through this phase. I did get the other side of it. That phase did pass-- even though it was felt like it would never end at the time. Cyber coffee pot is always brewing. Come in for a cuppa Joe and we will see what we can do :)

[leelees]

Hi, I'm BoredofChurch...and my story of SA is well...I went to this church who's pastor embezzled $$, made passes at women, twisted Scripture and frankly...I'm bored of it all.

oh my word, that made me laugh so much!!!

thanks, youve made my evening!







"cuppa joe"!!!???!?! what the hell is a cuppa joe!!!
i need to educate you all in the ways of tea!

[Jerry]

"cuppa joe"!!!???!?! what the hell is a cuppa joe!!!
i need to educate you all in the ways of tea!

"Cuppa Joe" = Coffee ;)

Love Jerry :D

[mary]

((((Mary)))),



Maybe you weren't thrown out, but in. :) That pastor made the church more like the world, and a bad part of it too. I think that we are a remnant that God is setting aside for himself as he has done throughout history. He accepts those that the world has rejected, and, I think, people like us that worldly and unmerciful churches have rejected. This doesn't mean that some or all of the churchgoers in our ex-churches were not Christians (only God knows that), but that they sure behaved as if they weren't Christians. We are made up of those that have been trampled on by others, but he loves us and cares for us even more, not despite what happened to us, but even because of it. We may have to wait a while to see it, but he will make sure that justice is done, that is part of his nature.

Carmen

(((((Carmen!)))))) ((((Leelees!))))

Wow... :o

1 Corinthians 1:27... Psalms 1 through 10, if you really want to get into it - and I've really been getting into those particular psalms these last few days... As Newlife mentioned several days ago, 2 and 3 John...

Interesting that you say that "pastor" made the church a part of the world, and a bad part, too... I've worked in law offices for my whole career. I'm not stupid or naive, generally. Wedding rings mean little in the work world these days and I've fended off my share of men in work situations with subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle words and body language, and that's always worked. Sometimes, especially before I was saved, I would get flattered and play along a bit - unless I thought a guy meant business. Then I'd run like the wind. But "pastor" - you are so correct - made "church" like the worst of the (work) world. I threw him my standard "get lost; not interested" hints over the course of years and he ignored them all. (In truth, they should have been a lifeline to him: he should have awakened and realized that what he was doing was offensive to the Lord and demeaning to his own marriage.) I chalked up his ignoring of my signals to our cultural differences, but I probably should have realized that he was just evil.

In our Bible study tonight, we're going to be starting on Romans 9. "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; I will hardeneth whom I will hardeneth..." I've told the Messianic rabbi who's teaching this class some of what happened to me (by no means all...) and he asked me, "How do the totality of your sins before you were saved compare to what he (pastor) did to you?" I said, "There's no comparison. I offended the Lord of Glory, royally and every day. What 'pastor' did to me pales in comparison." Rabbi asked me if I thought I "deserved" God's forgiveness and I said, of course not. He said, "But He sent His Son to die for you, didn't He? He loved you that much." So yes, Carmen: you are so wise! God loves us because He loves us - He's chosen a remnant for Himself to take out of these evil "synagogues of Satan." So we "kvetch" and complain when we're persecuted and have to leave or we get thrown out of a "church" - but that's really God loving us enough to fetch us when we need to be fetched.

Of everyone who's posted the details of their leavings, shunning, getting thrown out, etc., etc. of churches on this forum, I have yet to read of one church that had one attribute that I thought was worth hanging in there with and for. They're all a bunch of world-class, flaming, plastic-banana phonies and losers. And obviously, mine was no exception.

Some things just hurt so much until the Lord Himself comes to dry our tears and take away the pain, in His timing...

May the Lord bless you in a very special way and always keep you, Carmen, Leelees and each and every one of you...

Love,

mary

[leelees]

plastic-banana phonies
ROFLOL!


i love you mary!...not in a gay way of course...well, thats what you think! :D

never heard of a cuppa joe...more like a mugga crap! i hate coffee!

now tetly on the other hand...:p

[Carmen]

(((((Mary,))))) :o I'd have included especially 1 Cor. 1:27, was thinking along those lines, but didn't want to offend anyone by quoting scripture directly. Plastic bananas, that was great! Laughing about plastic fruit has already taken away some of my tears. :)

[mary]

Oh, I'm always glad if I make anyone laugh! :D :D :D Sometimes (often!) in my life, my sense of humor is all I have, after, of course, the blessed presence of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Some of the best chucklefests I've ever had were in hospitals, when I was strapped down and getting either a blood transfusion or chemotherapy... :) :p The Lord provides - and does it so generously, especially in situations like that! :D

Carmen, Leelees - I'm praying for you both...

Love,

mary