Pre-marital sex/cohabitation! [Archive] - Christian Recovery Forums

Moxie

08-05-2006, 06:49 AM

Can anyone here speak from personal experience or second-hand experience when it comes to pre-marital sex vs. waiting for marriage or cohabitation vs. waiting until marriage?

I am requesting the testimony of someone's personal experience so that statistical citings stay out of the equation. I have heard some people cite divorce statistics for those who choose cohabitation or sex outside of marriage, and I can't help but wonder about the source or accuracy of those statistics. Perhaps they were passed on from a religious authority as a scare tactic for teens in youth groups. Perhaps they were passed on by an organization who believes that sex is only for procreation.

Do warnings about pre-marital sex/cohabitation apply usually to younger folks (teens, twenties) because their emotions and impulses are less controlled/mature than someone who is significantly older?

Are Biblical warnings against pre-marital sex taken out of historical context? Is it that because in Biblical days, birth control was limited or non-existant and because women had very few rights?

I am trying to separate sexual repression and control imposed by the church from proven, concrete reasons for not having pre-marital sex.

Any thoughts?

apike

08-05-2006, 08:14 AM

Dear Moxie, Before I reply I want to say this is only my experience and opinion. Take what you can use and leave the rest.

I can speak from personal experience. I was 21 when I met the man I chose to marry. I slept with him immediately, lived with him 3 years and was married to him 30 years. We are now divorced. As I work my recovery I gained some insight into the sex issue. For me the sex clouded the relationship at the beginning. The physical intimacy was a substitute for real intimacy cause over the long run I really could not read his character. I ignored red flags as we got to know each other in other ways.

There were real trust problems in our relationship that had nothing to do with sex but I didn't see them. It I had not had sex or lived with him I do not think he would have gone out of his way to have a relationship with me. I think I just wanted him no matter what and set out to get him. And made it so easy for him to have me.

I heard something that struck me once, if you want to know if a person loves you, set a boundary (no sex) and see how it is respected. If the person leaves or pressures or tries to coerce in order to get what they want instead of respecting what you need, this is not the person to commit to.

Sex can be a powerful force in a relationship, more powerful than it should be.
There are so many more things that are important and need to be developed.

One thing I learned about God was that He sets boundaries NOT because He is an authority who demands obedience. He sets boundaries because He knows what is best for us. He does not want us to get hurt because He loves us. There are a lot of negative consequences to sex outside of marriage, many I chose to ignore until I was compelled to see by the breakup of the relationship. Lets put it this way, if I had to do it over again I would have done it differently. Left sex out of it and gave it time. But this is hindsight.

Moxie its good to ask the questions. Thanks.

Andrea

Hope 98

08-05-2006, 09:04 AM

This is such a hot-button for me. I think I need to really consider how I answer and it will take time to sort through.

Off the top of my head - I lived with my current husband for nearly a year & a half before we married, though that was the plan all along. We are approaching our eighteenth anniversary and I feel like we're still going strong.

The thing that I've always questioned is whether or not desire or lust was just as distracting as actually having sex, or is a focus on purity just as much a mistake as a focus on satisfaction.

I have no idea if I would have seen things differently had I NOT had sex before I was married.

I am married for the second time now. I honestly don't know how having sex before my first marriage effected the outcome.

Prior to meeting my first husband, I had been in an abusive relationship for about 3 years. I waited nearly a year before giving in to his demands for sex, and in hindsight I can see he was abusive long before that.

I don't think that, at that time, I had any idea of what a healthy relationship would look or feel like. What I do know is that the ONLY thing that I heard during that time about relating to the opposite sex was about NOT having sex. I believe there needs to be a lot more communication with teens about what makes a loving relationship rather than there is. Maybe in that context good choices about sex would make more sense.

Willow

08-05-2006, 09:31 AM

Hi Moxie and welcome.

I'm also sorting through this topic a bit too. I was abstinent until I was 40 thinking I was being pure. Turns out it was more because I had issues and was afraid of intimacy. A bit of a complicated thing... but my religion was really a cloak for issues of childhood sexual abuse and not wanting to deal with them.

It came to a point where I needed to deprogram myself. I was too rigid... too robotic. I began doing "naughties" in order to mess up my record. One of the naughties was to date someone and then have sex. I'm not sure it was the best thing to do... but it did have the outcome I needed.... I messed up my perfect record! Now I don't have to live up to it. I muddied the water... now I don't have to remove every dust particle that falls into it. My religion became a case of OCD for me.

Anyway... now I've come full circle and really don't want to have sex and ruin it for whoever becomes my lifelong love. At this point I'm not sure I'll have a lifelong love, but I still want to take care of myself. If I do go there, the physical activity will be only as deep as the real intimacy and trust with the person.

Does that make sense?

Amy

Can anyone here speak from personal experience or second-hand experience when it comes to pre-marital sex vs. waiting for marriage or cohabitation vs. waiting until marriage?

I am requesting the testimony of someone's personal experience so that statistical citings stay out of the equation. I have heard some people cite divorce statistics for those who choose cohabitation or sex outside of marriage, and I can't help but wonder about the source or accuracy of those statistics. Perhaps they were passed on from a religious authority as a scare tactic for teens in youth groups. Perhaps they were passed on by an organization who believes that sex is only for procreation.

Do warnings about pre-marital sex/cohabitation apply usually to younger folks (teens, twenties) because their emotions and impulses are less controlled/mature than someone who is significantly older?

Are Biblical warnings against pre-marital sex taken out of historical context? Is it that because in Biblical days, birth control was limited or non-existant and because women had very few rights?

I am trying to separate sexual repression and control imposed by the church from proven, concrete reasons for not having pre-marital sex.

Any thoughts?

Scooter

08-05-2006, 09:38 AM

I believe there needs to be a lot more communication with teens about what makes a loving relationship rather than there is. Maybe in that context good choices about sex would make more sense.

I very much agree with this statement. There is too little communication about sex and intimacy, other than to forbid Christians to have sex before marriage and to ignore the difference between sex and intimacy.

Moxie, I can give you two stories from personal experience. The first is mine and my husband's - we waited for four years until we were married. Many times it was VERY difficult to restrain the physical desire, but it was a great exercise in learning other ways to communicate our attraction and how to evaluate our interactions. We did make out, kiss, and lie with each other (ha ha - there was a lot of necking!). On our wedding night, I can say that I've never experienced anything so tender, so beautiful, or so awesome as when we finally made love.

I'm also very good friends with a Christian couple who didn't wait until they were married. At the time, they believed that they would and should be married, and that God was kind of asking them to portray that through having sex. They had a very rocky time because of the pressure the sex put on the relationship = not between them, but from outside the relationship. Because they already felt intimately entwined, they experienced a lot of conflict with their parents over waiting until they finished college to get married. It was also stressful that they were living in separate residences on campus when they had formed such a strong bond. (It was a Christian college.)

The young woman found out that she was pregnant. I'm not trying to use this as a scare tactic, because they didn't use any type of birth control. But they did go through so much hardship because of the timing of the pregnancy and the fact that they weren't married at the time. They married before the baby was born, and it wasn't the wedding they'd dreamed of because it was on such short notice. They struggled with where to live, how to pay for the health costs of having a baby, how to make sure their relationship stayed strong amid the stress of having a baby. My friend wrestled with telling friends and professors that she was pregnant, and suddenly feeling that her self-definition changed to "the baby." She confided in me that she and her husband experienced conflict over sex during the pregnancy (she didn't want to continue having sex until they were able to marry), because he felt suddenly deprived and she felt overwhelmed. After their marriage, they had a hard time communicating about sex, and she didn't find much enjoyment in it. But that could have also been because it was getting toward the end of the pregnancy. I imagine any couple could find it challenging during that time.

Their baby is one-and-a-half, their marriage is strong, they're active in finishing their college education, and they're passionate Christians. They admit that they didn't make the best choices, but that loving Christians helped them to make the best decisions they could with the results. They're overjoyed with their son, and it almost brings tears to my eyes when I see her interact with the baby now, when before she had trouble picking him up.

I guess i agree with Spike about the reason God sets boundaries. He doesn't want us to get hurt. When we do get hurt, though, I've seen how He takes a stressful and impossible situation and redeems it. He uses grace, not judgment; love, not guilt. Sorry this is such a long reply. As I said, it's only my personal experince. Keep asking questions!

Scooter

08-05-2006, 09:42 AM

Doug64

08-05-2006, 09:52 AM

Hi Moxie:

Apike and others made some very good points.

My personal experience was to wait until marriage - 32 years and counting - so that doesn't really answer your question(s).

The statistics I have read indicate that premarital sex does seem to result in a higher divorce rate. That rate for all reasons is about 50% so P-sex is not the only factor by any means. In fact, money is the number one reason for most divorces.

The Biblical admonition seems to have a basis in several areas: pregnancy, STD possibilities, emotional health and the like.

God does give instuctions for our own good.

Doug

Jerry

08-05-2006, 11:01 AM

Love occurs in the mind and sex is merely one of many ways to express that condition of the mind.If one allows oneself to be used simply to satisfy a primal sexual urge ,,,,they will not experience that celebration of life that comes from love expressed,rather they will know what it means to be a "Device" :(

mary

08-05-2006, 11:02 AM

Welcome, Moxie!

Personal experience: Raised Catholic in an era when "nothing goes until you get married." Lived by it. Dated a lot for 6 years between ages 15 and 21, when I met my husband, but dated mostly "fine, young Catholic gentlemen," and nothing happened. My husband was raised in a strict, Protestant environment and also believed in "nothing goes until you get married."

We refrained until we got married; our engagement was relatively short.

Married now for a long, long time. We have the special blessing of being each other's only experience, and I'm so glad for it! :D Strangely enough, it means more with every passing year. I'm not sitting in judgment of anyone else (only one of my four siblings can say the same). I could just as easily not have waited, but somehow, it "never seemed right." Not even with my husband until after we were married.

I've never talked about this with anyone because I don't want to sound as though I think I'm better than anyone else, because I'm not. There are other things I've done and things that have gone on in my head that have not been good. Far from it. Still a sinner saved by grace...

I'm just saying that as to this particular part of life, I'm so happy I waited. So I don't know how "things would have been" with any other men. I don't care. I'm happy. :)

Thank you so much for starting this thread!

mary

Moxie

08-05-2006, 02:32 PM

Thank you for the welcome, everyone. Each of your posts have been very helpful to me! Thank you for taking the time out to give such well, thought-out responses! :)

By the way, I am 39 years old and have been single all my life. That may give a clearer context regarding my questions. In other words, I am not right out of high school or right out of college still finding my identity and finding my way, nor am I interested in sex as a sport or to satisfy primal urges.

I feel that because I have waited a long time and have suffered emotionally, I would wait until my wedding night to have sex with that special person whether it was Biblical or not. I see it as a gift to unwrap. Plus all the built-up sexual tension.:D

More questions and thoughts:

What about sex between a loving couple in a committed relationship outside of marriage who have already developed their friendship and trust? I can see the danger in how one of them can change their mind about the commitment and leave the relationship, thus creating emotional damage, but that also happens with married couples, too, and that is divorce.

So if there are no guarantees in life, how do you know if that person will stay married to you or get tired of married life after a few years? Will the success of the marriage hinge on the fact that I chose to save myself for my wedding night? Is it really that simple? Certainly other issues come into play, such as stewardship with money, conflict management, etc. Detecting even the worst management of those issues is not necessarily seen early on, which could change someone's mind about matrimony.

Plus, a couple could be married and their contraceptive could fail. Just because they are married does not mean they can adequately support the child or even be competent parents to the child. Just like if they were not married.

THEN I hear people talk about "soul ties" or "soul bonding." Never heard of it until visiting another Christian forum. The claim is that when you have sex, it joins your soul to theirs. Well, I’m not in luck, because before I became a Christian, I had intercourse more than once. But I am here to report that to this day, I did NOT feel like that any person’s soul was bonded to mine. AT ALL. So I am wondering if this is church hocus-pocus terminology to motivate people from having pre-marital sex. Is there documented proof for this theory? Having survived spiritual abuse, this wouldn’t surprise me.

IIRONICALLY, HOWEVER, there were a few men with whom I had a close, lengthy relationship. NO SEX AT ALL, not even kissing. But I definitely felt "soul bonded" to them, and it was devastating when they later chose someone else over me.

Hope wrote: The thing that I've always questioned is whether or not desire or lust was just as distracting as actually having sex, or is a focus on purity just as much a mistake as a focus on satisfaction.

Excellent point. Somebody could profess their love to me, yet without my knowledge they could be so horny that they would marry me just to have sex with me. Then once they do, the marriage could go downhill from there. OR, they could be an abusive spouse hiding their abusive nature from me until after marriage.

In fact, I have heard of a pastor raping his wife. Of course, that case would not hold up in court easily, likely because he is a pastor, but definitely because it is difficult to prove cases where the victim and the rapist have known each other for a length of time -- especially on an intimate level.

Speaking of abuse, since domestic violence is a silent epidemic in this country, I wonder how many Christian wives are abused but do not come forward to seek help because they fear they will not be believed and will be ostracized by church members for their desperate (seemingly unbelievable) testimony. And I wonder if that couple waited until their wedding night.

Yes, some of what I just shared may sound a bit alarming, but in my past, all the advice about waiting until marriage makes it sound like if we wait, we are guaranteed to pass safely from all of harm’s path.

Any thoughts?

yeshua'smags

08-05-2006, 04:21 PM

There is no judgement in what I am about to say!!!!

The thing is, we are supposed to be married because you form an emotional bond to that person FOREVER! It doesn't matter how long you dated, or if it was meaningful, it will be with you. You will always have a piece of that person, and they will always have a piece of you that neither can ever get back.

God doesn't tell us this stuff because he's a party pooper. He gives us these rules to keep us safe. You can only give so many pieces of yourself before it's all gone. Even if you end up marrying the man you lose your virginity to, you still did it outside the boundaries of marriage. You break the rules, you kill the magic. God wants to bless it and make it wonderful, but He can't do it to the fullest extent if we don't follow the rules.

We didn't wait, and I hate it! It grieves me tho think what we could have had, and what we could have avoided. Sex is fun and all, but it is DEFINATELY something that can wait.

profnachos

08-05-2006, 04:22 PM

Very good thread. I like what apike wrote. Very thoughtful and insightful as well.

We often hear that men use love to get sex and women use sex to get love.

So does this mean we should withhold not just sex, but love as well before marriage? :D :D

I shall go duck.

Moxie

08-05-2006, 06:26 PM

The thing is, we are supposed to be married because you form an emotional bond to that person FOREVER! It doesn't matter how long you dated, or if it was meaningful, it will be with you. You will always have a piece of that person, and they will always have a piece of you that neither can ever get back.

Where did you hear this? Do you mean only if we had sex with the person? Or do you also mean platonic bonds?

The thing is, we are supposed to be married because you form an emotional bond to that person FOREVER! It doesn't matter how long you dated, or if it was meaningful, it will be with you. You will always have a piece of that person, and they will always have a piece of you that neither can ever get back.

If the above statement is true, then I find it preposterous that a woman would have formed an emotional bond with a man who raped her. After all, the rape was not meaningful. I find this logic to be not only legalistic, but utterly SICK.

I recall a man with whom I had sex. I certainly don’t feel like he is a part of me. It was so long ago. How is it proven that these sexual partners are actually “a part of us?” What are the manifestations of this bond?

In a perfect world, I would have been more than happy to marry some of these men with whom I had bonds and no sexual involvement, but they did not feel mutually. I do not believe that Jesus would punish me for their recklessness. Instead, he would heal me of it.

God doesn't tell us this stuff because he's a party pooper. He gives us these rules to keep us safe.

I know. But I will still question any rules which I am expected to follow, especially after recovering from a spiritually abusive situation. I will examine these rules from all angles, not to be disrespectful or irreverent, but to acquire a deeper perspective which may or may not reinforce the benefits to the rule.

You can only give so many pieces of yourself before it's all gone. Even if you end up marrying the man you lose your virginity to, you still did it outside the boundaries of marriage. You break the rules, you kill the magic. God wants to bless it and make it wonderful, but He can't do it to the fullest extent if we don't follow the rules.

We didn't wait, and I hate it! It grieves me tho think what we could have had, and what we could have avoided. Sex is fun and all, but it is DEFINATELY something that can wait.

When I chose to have sex, I was not yet a Christian. Since becoming a Christian, I have waited sixteen years to this day. Hopefully there is a man out there with the same experiences as me. I do not at all feel like parts of me are gone. Certainly grace and mercy abound where I once fell short. I would rather look at what I have left rather than dwell on what could have been.

Moxie

08-05-2006, 06:27 PM

butterfly

08-05-2006, 07:49 PM

My hubby and I had sex before marriage.
We were only each others partners.

Things have changed since we were married in 1966.

People would have sex outside of marriage. My friends would have boyfriends that they stayed with for along time. Sometimes they got married or broke up and had other boyfriends.

Most of them would not cheat on each other. They were commited to each other.

Now people have sex just to have sex. There is no emotional bond. No one cares about the sex partner they have if they catch STD"s or have aids.

I feel that when someone has sex that way they are cheating themself because all those sexually partners with there STD"S and God only knows what else they could catch.

When these people find someone to marry all those sexuall encounters does go into the marriage if people have picked up STD. SOme people have these but don"t find out till later sometimes. What about aids.

butterfly shirley

butterfly

08-05-2006, 07:59 PM

I forgot to say welcome Moxie.

Is your name after the soda Moxie?

I love that soda mmmmmmmmm. I think it is only a New England thing.

jane

08-05-2006, 09:15 PM

I remember talking about these statistics in a sociology course.

It was very much understood that WHY people who waited until they were married before they had sex were more than 50% likely to not get a divorce was because THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WHO WAIT TO HAVE SEX OFTEN DON"T BELIEVE IN DIVORCE.

There was never any research done on the QUALITY of the marriages that were still intact.

MOXIE-
I believe that there is NO GUARANTEE for anything..........You could both be christ loving virgins when you marry- and still end up divorced/ or married with a horrible sex life:p
You could both be whores with a long list of lovers and experience...and end up in a faithful, fullfilling relationships....

There are NO equations that equal any guarantees in this life. I myself, approaching 39 in September....have no doubt that I can not control the next curve ball thrown me.........nor have a "Christian-ese" slogan that will help me solve it.

About the sex question-

I totally believe that each person has to answer that for themselves. You have to look yourself in the mirror and like who you are.....you have to wake up in the morning next to your sex partner.........and look in the mirror and face who you are.

We could all share personal stories and have very different experiences and very different outcomes.

I remember being told by my pastor that the three main causes of divorce were money, in laws, and lack of communication.

A lot of problems my husband and I faced had more to do with expectations.

Before you marry, you dream of what life will be like and set up a subconcious set of expectations....and when those aren't fullfilled.......there is conflict.

And where there is conflict- there'd better be a pair of people who can fight without being destructive; communicate to understand not be understood; and who can agree to disagree; and then make up to become one again.

that's my opinon. Relationships, married or not are about a whole gammet of things. Sex is the expression of all those things that come together.

goodluck finding your answers on your journey and welcome to our forum.

love,
jane

Scooter

08-05-2006, 10:26 PM

Moxie, I'm really impressed by your thoughtfulness. I'll try to give responses to your questions:

- As far as people who are committed but not married, I don't know. My inclination is to say that the Bible teaches that two people should be married first, but I really can't come up with any specific references.

- Just as I think people in the church need to talk more about sex (not just forbid it before marriage), I think there is not enough discourse on what makes a good marriage. You're right. There seems to be this notion that waiting until the wedding night is all a couple has to do to make their marriage "right." But God gives us a lot of other principles that don't receive as much attention, principles like respecting each other, putting the other person before yourself, seeking the other's good, and encouraging each other. I think that some couples go into marriage and haven't had sex, but they're dismally prepared to obey God's other guidelines.

- Pregnancy happens, and I know two couples who got pregnant very soon after their wedding. I wasn't sure whether they were prepared to be parents. The ability to procreate unfortunately doesn't guarantee the ability to parent. I remember one point during my engagement; I suddenly realized that getting married meant that I had to accept the reality that I could become pregnant, in spite of the best efforts at preventing it. That was a heavy realization.

- I've heard about soul-bonding as a result of sex. Don't know to what extent I agree with it. I know that for me, having sex required a lot of trust and vulnerability, and I think we do share something very personal when we have sex with someone. As you pointed out, though, there are other layers of intimacy - emotional, intellectual, spiritual. That's why I believe it's possible for a married person to have a non-sexual affair. We're able to become intimate with people on a variety of levels, but we might develop an intimacy that isn't good for us. At the same time, these different levels of intimacy are what I believe (along with many other things) help a marriage to stick. They complement and support each other, so that when intimacy lags in one area, it's still present in another.

My mind won't think anymore.

Hope 98

08-06-2006, 05:21 AM

It was very much understood that WHY people who waited until they were married before they had sex were more than 50% likely to not get a divorce was because THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WHO WAIT TO HAVE SEX OFTEN DON"T BELIEVE IN DIVORCE.

There was never any research done on the QUALITY of the marriages that were still intact.

And where there is conflict- there'd better be a pair of people who can fight without being destructive; communicate to understand not be understood; and who can agree to disagree; and then make up to become one again.

love,
jane

I really liked what you had to say about "when there is conflict" because you really hit the nail on the head there. Reality is that there will be conflict - guaranteed. My husband & I were discussing this just yesterday and we believe we've been together and solid for those very reasons. We respond to conflict in a constructive way.

The relationships I struggle with are the ones where inevitable conflicts are always handled distructively.

AND - I know too many people trapped in destructive marriages to consider the divorce statistics the ultimate meter of the quality of relationships.

mary

08-07-2006, 05:02 PM

If "two become one flesh" in marriage, and marriage was instituted by God, then I don't see the point in serial monogamy, whether it's "married" or unmarried serial monogamy... It just seems like taking our Creator's great gift of sex and making sport of it...

Profnachos, my friend... :) No. A thousand times no as to whether love should be withheld before marriage... You don't get married anyway just because you "love" someone. I think that common value systems and a dedication to the idea that marriage is forever on the part of both is more important than "love." A marriage can't be based just on a "falling in love" experience, because that's going to cool off anyway, guaranteed 100%, within 8 months to 4 years.

I've been married since just before President Lincoln made his fatal trip to the Ford Theater (or it just seems like that! ;) ) and I would say that at this point, I agree more with the sentiments expressed by Golda to Tevye in "Fiddler on the Roof" when he asks her, "Do you love me?" She responds in song with something along the lines of "For twenty-five years, I've cooked your meals, washed your clothes, shared your bed - if that's not love, what is?" Do I love my husband? Yes. Otherwise, I'd be on a beach in Malibu, not having divorced him but rather having filed for an order of separate maintenance...

There is no such thing as no conflict in marriage. It's there all the time and anyone who says or pretends differently is lying. If the conflict is intolerable, then we have to rely on the Lord to fix it. He's supposed to be the third Party in all marriages anyway - He's supposed to be the real Head of the home, not the husband or the wife. It's only been the last three years or so that my husband and I realized that the Lord is running this marriage, not either of us!

I've said enough... :)

mary

Moxie

08-08-2006, 01:01 PM

Profnachos, my friend... :) No. A thousand times no as to whether love should be withheld before marriage... You don't get married anyway just because you "love" someone.

mary

Profnachos was joking about withholding love before marriage, hence the green men in his post which indicate a spirit of facetiousness: --> :D

mary

08-08-2006, 01:39 PM

Profnachos was joking about withholding love before marriage, hence the green men in his post which indicate a spirit of facetiousness: --> :D

Oh, I know... I was just "twitting" my bud Profnachos a little... ;) I esteem him a lot & he knows it - he's a great guy!

Cheers,

mary

Voyager

08-08-2006, 09:10 PM

beginagainrose

08-08-2006, 09:59 PM

Wow! I am still learning how this site works, I just deleted my who post instead of editing it! So... my point was basically this... If (according to the last post) it doesnt really make a difference, then how does obedience to anything about God's word make a difference. I love it that so many here are willing to open your hearts and lives so freely... but a wonderful bunch here. My main point was that perhaps it might be said, "THOU SHALL NOT CHEAT THYSELF". It's not just about the difference it makes or not in your marriage, it is also about the difference it makes in your relationship with God. It should break our hearts to break His. His love is unconditional and we are forgiven when we confess sin, but we have no idea what lost blessings we have forfeited here or for eternity when we violate the boundaries He sets. Sexual sin is no greater sin than any other.... it just has far greater consequences for us and others. The Law of Unintended Consequence goes into play and while we are given a free will to make our choices, we do not choose the consequences; but we will live with them...and so will others... sometimes for a lifetime. There is a difference between spiritual abuse and shepherds who preach/teach the Word rightly and we (and our flesh) just dont happen to like it much too much.

Roberta

08-09-2006, 03:27 AM

Can anyone here speak from personal experience or second-hand experience when it comes to pre-marital sex vs. waiting for marriage or cohabitation vs. waiting until marriage?

My first sexual experience was the night my son was conceived. I wasn't married. We got married and it was disasterous.
After we divorced, I had a slew of sexual encounters, which led to an abortion and another out-of-wedlock pregnancy. It also led me to HPV which has caused me to have 2 'bouts with cervical cancer.

I am requesting the testimony of someone's personal experience so that statistical citings stay out of the equation. I have heard some people cite divorce statistics for those who choose cohabitation or sex outside of marriage, and I can't help but wonder about the source or accuracy of those statistics. Perhaps they were passed on from a religious authority as a scare tactic for teens in youth groups. Perhaps they were passed on by an organization who believes that sex is only for procreation.

Do warnings about pre-marital sex/cohabitation apply usually to younger folks (teens, twenties) because their emotions and impulses are less controlled/mature than someone who is significantly older?

Are Biblical warnings against pre-marital sex taken out of historical context? Is it that because in Biblical days, birth control was limited or non-existant and because women had very few rights?

My first sexual experience was the night my son was conceived. I wasn't married. We got married and it was disasterous.
After we divorced, I had a slew of sexual encounters, which led to an abortion (biggest mistake of my life) and another out-of-wedlock pregnancy. It also led me to HPV which has caused me to have 2 'bouts with cervical cancer.

I am trying to separate sexual repression and control imposed by the church from proven, concrete reasons for not having pre-marital sex.

Any thoughts?

Our public schools not only encourage abstinance before marriage, they have a program called CPR (Creating Positive Relationships).

With diseases such as HIV/AIDS I would say that it is far more important to abstain now than it was in Biblical times.

hornblower

08-09-2006, 08:32 AM

Can anyone here speak from personal experience or second-hand experience when it comes to pre-marital sex vs. waiting for marriage or cohabitation vs. waiting until marriage?

yes it doesnt work and here is why
if a man doesnt marry you why should he ever marry you?
My nieces are all suffering the affects of these relationships. I could go into my long drawn out sob story but suffice it to say been there done that and have a card!
They dont get it because oh yeah they are all so modern and so smart. Yeah well not so msart that they wont get dumped on and why shouldnt they too?

If you were a guy.............would you want to settle down work for the rest of your life to have what you can get without working so hard???????????
Thats what this generation is now selling and as usual women pay for all of this dumber than dumb thinking.
My neice the oldest one is now at a very scarry age the age where you should have already had your kids and have a house maybe and be settled down. Shes brilliant, has an awesome head for school anyway, beautiful and stupid!
As always she knows it all.
So she moves in with this guy and dont get me wrong i loved him we all did hes wonderful arent they all? Well maybe not but he was. Shes a real caretaker this one just like her mom and me. So she cooks and she cleans and she works maybe two jobs sometimes and her parents even foot the bill a lot too and of course lets not forgett the freebie hes getting any night he wants. So shes crying and crying after years and years of this stuff and he is going nowhere of course because after all he wants to do just what he wants to do right?

Somewhere in her thick head she is thinking this could go and on and on and on yeah it sure can???????????? duh?????????
You got it hes gone!
This is the seconed one..............theyve all got em. Her mom is so embarassed when anyone asks what is your daughter up too???????????
Yep my generation we started that free love stuff wonder why we didnt keep on with it?????????????
BECAUSE it doesnt work!

God is the daddy I never had, the one that tells me how to take care of myself.

mary

08-11-2006, 07:04 AM

Personally, I don't think it makes a difference. There are couples who have been together for 50 years who had sex before marriage. There are also couples who waited until marriage to have sex and were divorced in six months.

I think it's really just a matter of finding someone you can be compatible with.

:cool:

I don't think you can always point to results to justify behavior. If a couple who has sex before marriage stays together 50 years, I don't think one has then made an airtight argument that "therefore," it doesn't make a difference. The "if/then" proposition is lacking in its logical follow-through.

I just have a few academic/rhetorical questions; I'm only interested in a discussion, not a debate, Voyager...

If it doesn't matter if you wait until marriage, then why would anyone wait? That would be foolish, wouldn't it? We eat when we're hungry; we drink when we're thirsty. But sex is different, isn't it? Isn't there a benefit to our own physical and emotional well-being, to our maintenance of integrity and to our characters in delaying gratification? We're human beings; we're not animals. Has any human civilization or society on earth that has countenanced or sanctioned unbridled sexual gratification really succeeded?

(We delay gratification if, for example, we want a big-screen TV but we just don't happen to have the cash for it at the moment. I maintain that there's virtue in that and very few bona fide financial advisors or economists would disagree with that. We save up; we go without some things if we really want that TV. It builds our character. A big-screen TV is nothing like the most precious gift you can give to another human being, though... There's far more virtue and character-building to be found in the delayed gratification of sexual desire, I think.)

If marriage means next to nothing as to sexual practice and exclusivity, then why is adultery wrong? Or is it? If adultery, or the activities that lead to literal adultery, are not wrong, then why, for example, does a married pastor not have the right to make and/or require certain types of physical contact with and of married female congregants? (That's what happened to me.)

If there's error here anywhere, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of what we know in our hearts is right rather than to err on the side of what may be (and what much even of secular society believes is) wrong? Where's the harm in keeping sex only in marriage? Where was the harm in my telling "pastor" no? (He threw me out of the church, that's where the "harm" occurred. Had I said "yes," he still would have thrown me out eventually, when he got tired of me or when his wife found out. I am not so naive as to believe that that would not have been a certainty. And my own marriage would have been destroyed as well.)

I'm not using biblical arguments here, Voyager, because I've been following your posts and I know that you're not impressed by them. I respect that and I respect you.

Just posing a few little counter-positions (pun unintended...).

mary

jimsmuse

08-11-2006, 07:23 AM

:rolleyes: Thank you Mary, as much as we like to think all things are relative, they are not. That was extremely articulate and full of wisdom. As a Youth and Children's Pastor I thank you :)

mary

08-11-2006, 09:00 AM

:rolleyes: Thank you Mary, as much as we like to think all things are relative, they are not. That was extremely articulate and full of wisdom. As a Youth and Children's Pastor I thank you :)

Wow, thanks and you're welcome, Marcy... :o I think it's probably unpopular reasoning these days, but "the old dog still hunts..." :)

Love,

mary

dougjb

08-11-2006, 09:40 AM

.
Pre-marital sex/cohabitation
Hi everyone,
I just got back home from being out of town and I am trying to catch up on the threads. I am finding this thread very interesting and would like to throw my 2 cents worth into the discussion.
I would like to throw God and creation into the picture and discuss why the Lord would even place rules governing sexual conduct into the Bible. I believe that when God created everything, he made everything perfect. Adam and Eve were created and naturally lived in the perfect will of God because they were made to live in union and communion with the Lord.
Since Adam and Eve were not content to live in the estate God created for them and rebelled, it threw everything into a state moral chaos and disorder including our ideas of sex and marriage. [I hope you guys excuse me if I am sounding a little preachy here.]
The point is that the rules governing sexual conduct, as well as everything else, have a redemptive goal to move mankind back to what was intended in creation. I do not believe that God decided to give arbitrary rules to make us miserable and unhappy, but to show how to organize ourselves in a manner that reflects what God intended in creation - to have full and fulfilled lives. I also believe that since God created, sex, and the institution of marriage, he probably has the best understanding of how everything should work.
I am the type of person who likes to see God’s grace and God’s redemptive work in everything in the Bible. This may sound strange but I like to interpret even the Law God in terms of God’s Grace in promoting redemption of sin. Maybe God is extending his grace and mercy to us by giving guidelines for sex and marriage to protect us. I could say more but I will leave it at this.

Some food for thought.

Dougjb

Hope 98

08-11-2006, 11:01 AM

newlife

08-11-2006, 11:22 AM

I've been reading along with this thread, but hadn't commented...

I can see dougjb's point and mary's point. I think that people have so many issues that this is such a difficult subject to address. It has been used to bring condemnation throughout history onto people. But Jesus didn't condemn people over these things. (I'm thinking of the story of the woman caught in the act of adultery and the woman at the well.) I remember reading the story about the woman at the well and what struck me was that even though Jesus told her her life's story, he didn't beat her over the head with it. He just stated it as fact and then offered her his "living water". Another time he said, when they were questioning him about divorce, that God had created one wife for one husband...but that was in a "perfect" world...we don't live in that "perfect" world any more...:(

From my own personal experiences and with others in my life, I have seen some difficult consequences that have come out of sex outside of marriage. I have seen emotional pain, children born to single mothers and the struggles that the father, mother, & child must then go through, abortions, disease & death (a friend of mine's brother died of AIDS way before he should have), marriages broken because of an unfaithful spouse.

I think that guidelines are given to protect us, much like we give our children guidelines to protect them. But, you know, when my child disobeys me and does something that I told him not to and he gets hurt, I still love him despite it. I just have to pick him up and comfort him (and yes, I do remind him of the rule! ;) ).

These are just my personal thoughts...take what works and leave the rest...I'm not trying to be critical of anyone...I'm not "without sin" either...

Love, newlife

mary

08-11-2006, 03:49 PM

I will agree that it is best to wait until marriage to have sex.

The overwhelming majority of people I know did not wait.

Should entering a church or any fellowship of Christians cause us to feel shame or guilt because of that?

Should we be disqualified for service in the Church?

As far as the "why buy a cow, if you can get the milk for free?" argument is concerned, my husband says that: first of all, I'm not a cow, but if I were a cow, he would buy the cow because he loves the cow.

If we all fall short of the Glory of God, why should the penalty for sexual sins be higher than any other sins? Aren't there sins that are far more distructive?

The issue of virginity looks to me like just a hook to hang our self-righteousness on. Now - maybe that's because I don't have it, and I just feel like anyone who held out for marriage considers me inferior to them.

OK - I guess that's enough for now.

Dear Hope 98,

No shame or guilt! No condemnation! Romans 8:1!!!!! No disqualification from service in the church!!!! Newlife is right re: the woman at the well. My points were merely to address the question raised by Voyager, not really anyone else's...

As for sexual sins, well, there is 1 Corinthians 6:18... but there was also the above-referenced incident, and the fact that David was referred to as "a man of God" (Nehemiah 12:36, for just one instance of that). God saved David and made him part of the precious line from which His Son was descended, despite the Bathsheba fiasco.

No, no one is perfect. If I were to tell any of you some of the things I've done and said in anger, even after I was saved, you'd be shocked. Jesus said that if any man is angry with his brother without a cause, he is a murderer. And no murderers gain eternal life. I forget who it was that said, "we all have thoughts that would shame hell." Well, I have them. Thankfully, if we're His, we don't have to worry about past sins or present ones or future ones. We are to live a life that befits our gratitude for His salvation, but we don't have to think or worry about past sins, because He doesn't. They're under the Blood. How great is that??? :D :D :D

He said, "Go and sin no more..." :o :)

All we need to do is remember Whose we are!

mary