Ministeria

[Voyager]

Here's something that I posted back in early 2003:

Recently I have coined a new phrase that I believe accurately describes one of the major problems in modern-day religion. I call it ministeria.

Ministeria is a combination of ministry, hypocrisy, fear, paranoia, and hysteria. It starts out as a desire to follow the calling of God, and ends in something just short of insanity. Its root lies in denial. In an attempt to "minister" to others, the ministeria victim begins to point out the faults in the lives of those that they are "ministering" to. In the process, they lose sight of their own shortcomings. They feel that God will overlook the beam of timber in their own eye and allow them to point out the toothpicks in the eyes of others because of "the calling" on their life.

As ministeria evolves into its advanced stages, its victim's perception of reality becomes completely distorted due to the illusions of spiritual grandiosity that they have embraced. As their perceived level of spiritual superiority over others increases, their willingness to take giant "leaps of faith" many times lands them in jail or bankruptcy court. This is because these "leaps of faith" are based in extreme delusions of grandeur. They have become consumed in a religious fantasy world that has impaired their judgement to the extent that they feel they are above the laws and ethics that "common people" are subjected to.

Unfortunately when people who care for the victims of ministeria attempt to step in and rescue them from this horrible mind-altering disease, the victim usually perceives it as evil persecution. This tends to perpetuate the madness and allows it to escalate to even higher levels until the victim completely detaches from reality and becomes totally lost in what I call ministeria.

Any thoughts?

:cool:

[ex-shep]

[QUOTE=Voyager][SIZE="2"]Here's something that I posted back in early 2003:



Any thoughts?

I call it codependency. My buddy in college and refered to the "damsals in distress" symdrome. To conclude this service, we will now rise and sing that old codependent Hymn "Rescue the Perishing". I can not sing that hymn with a straight face.

While there is not an official rule book at church, there is an unwritten rule against it. There seem to be some accountability checks and balance with both administraion and laity.

Excellent post. Give that poster a latte.

[InTheory]

Great thoughts, Voyager.

Ministry (in the sense that I think we can all relate to) does seem to create and fuel a vicious circle of abuse.

The best way that I could comment would be to notice how my thought processes have changed since I left the bullshit over 1 year ago now: instead of trying to "fix" anybody, I enjoy the company of friends and steer clear of those that I cannot have a healthy relationship with (rather than trying to be friends with everyone, and also alienating those closest by constantly "speaking" into their lives with condemnation and "keep trying, you'll get there" bullshit prophecies). I also revel in the fact that those that are true friends don't try to change me either... :cool:

I hope all is well, Voyager!

Take care.

-Dan

[dougjb]

Hi everyone,

The first years I was a Christian, I had to battle the idea floating around the church that the mark of a mature and spiritually gifted Christian was being able to identify faults in others. In other words, they were attempting to take rude, nasty, condescending attitudes and Christianize them and pretend they were prophetic gifts.

some food for thought
Dougjb

[outcast]

I honestly cannot stand the ministry, but as I am newly recovering, I understand that is a normal part of the process. I cannot stand ministry b/c of ministeria. It's all I know. That and the idea that being in the ministry is an end and not a means to an end. Or, that it replaces the need for humility in ones life and realizing that our entire life should be a ministry if we want to honor God. But, these ideas are sticking points for me b/c they were used constantly to keep us in check. Until I woke up. ;)

[mary]

Voyager!

What wonderful insight!!!!

Just incredible. You have actually described many aspects of my old pastor's persona. Unfortunately for him, though, people are so repulsed by his preaching style and his general personality that he hasn't been able to reap the monetary benefits of "ministeria." Too bad, because his taste in golf course venues sort of mandates that. :p ;) :D :eek:

Thanks so much for reposting this, Voyager. I wasn't around here in 2003, having then just joined that stinking cult. I sure appreciate your putting it back on here!

mary

[ex-shep]

I honestly cannot stand the ministry, but as I am newly recovering, I understand that is a normal part of the process. I cannot stand ministry b/c of ministeria. It's all I know. That and the idea that being in the ministry is an end and not a means to an end. Or, that it replaces the need for humility in ones life and realizing that our entire life should be a ministry if we want to honor God. But, these ideas are sticking points for me b/c they were used constantly to keep us in check. Until I woke up. ;)

I developed an "allergy" to anything remotely evangelical. I could not even stand hearing christmas carols in a department store. I could not even use the "c" word for December 25 refering to it as Isaac Newton's birthday or the Winter Solstace shopping season. Undoing the tapes takes time, at least you are in good company.

[profnachos]

OMG!!!!

It is a masterpiece. Any added thoughts from me would only degrade the fine work.

Well done!

[Jo Jo]

Voyager - you're a ga-genius! Examples of ministeria unfortunately run amuck.

Dougjb this frightfully explains where I just came from:
The first years I was a Christian, I had to battle the idea floating around the church that the mark of a mature and spiritually gifted Christian was being able to identify faults in others. In other words, they were attempting to take rude, nasty, condescending attitudes and Christianize them and pretend they were prophetic gifts.

Luckily now we now know that it is a symptom of the dreaded ministeria.

[dougjb]

Hi everyone,
Sometimes I wonder if there is anyone teaching Christians to be Christians.:confused: All the odd/abusive behavior is not Christianity. I remember the first real observation of the activity in the church where I came to Christ. I said to myself, these people are doing the same thing I was going before I came to Christ but now they are just wrapped Bible verses around it. In other words, they were attempting to Christianize non-Christian behavior. I am beginning to believe that there is a real need for concrete and substantial changing in the Church. I am going to start thinking about some possible solutions.

some food for thought
Dougjb

[outcast]

I developed an "allergy" to anything remotely evangelical. I could not even stand hearing christmas carols in a department store. I could not even use the "c" word for December 25 refering to it as Isaac Newton's birthday or the Winter Solstace shopping season. Undoing the tapes takes time, at least you are in good company.


LOL. :D Isaac Newton's B-day huh? I may steal that one from you. :p

Seriously though, Christmas doesn't bother me, just charismaticky type language. I had to get up and leave the service 3 times Sunday morning b/c the wording my new pastor used was so like the stuff I've heard for so many years. I don't think his heart/motives were wrong, but I don't like that language anymore b/c it was misused. Also, I don't even really agree w/it anymore.

I thought about going back to a Baptist church b/c I grew up Baptist and I know they don't talk the way charismatics do. But, hubby really likes the Assembly of God church we are attending now and the pastors there are real pastors and very kind to us. Besides, it's a huge congregation so it's pretty unnoticeable when I get up and leave the sanctuary anyway. ;)

[ex-shep]

[QUOTE=outcast]LOL. :D Isaac Newton's B-day huh? I may steal that one from you. :p

I actually remember it from Chase's Calendar of annual events. Most reference sections of libraries have it. It is a fun read. 25 December is also Clara Barton and Cab Calloway's birthday.

I have a short fuse with charismatic verbiage myself. I have been out so long that it does not bother me. There is a little bit of it in the denomination and I in today, that I can take with a grain of sodium chloride. Ask me to an AG and you might have your ears piereced with a primal scream or gaping silouhette in your living room wall. Obviously I am overreacting, but at least I know my limits.

There was a point where I had to leave a Methodist church because of the tapes. It was soley me and it was my issue. The church had nothing to do with it. I would reccomend them in a hearbeat.

My wife and I had a similar struggle. My wife was having difficulties. The Sunday school material and the sermons were intellectually stimulating and academically challenging. It went right over my wife's head. She was lost. [Just for the record, I did get my wife's permission before mentioning]

I definitely pray that you and your husband can find a church where you can both be comfortable.

[Doug64]

Yes, those old tapes take a while to 'erase.'

Put another way, the ministeria operate under different 'rules' than the rest of us.
They often cloak things like adultery/fornication as 'pastoral' priviledges or something similar because of their unique 'relationship/service to God.

It's a lot harder to shame someone in authority than a lay member.
Glad to be out and free.

The tapes no longer play in this old head (out for 7 years.)

happy Doug

[outcast]

I'm glad to hear that Doug. Not just for your own sake - b/c I'm glad you are free. :) But, even for my own. It gives me hope to know I won't always feel as I do now, think as I do now.

And yes, their rules are very different for themselves. I remember the pastor's daughter was very condemning of things I would watch/read, etc. But she watched/read much worse stuff than I did. She would explain that "well, you are a worship leader and you will contaminate yourself by doing those things and it will affect the others during the worship service." :eek: Huh? Now where is that in scripture?

I should put this on my naughty list I suppose, but there was once when she said that to me about a series of books that I really liked to read by Tony Hillerman. He writes a mystery series set on the Navaho rez in the NM/Arizona area. Great books. Very little swearing and no explicit sexual content at all. Her reason why I shouldn't read them was b/c they have Navaho chants in them at points during the books. She said it could get me interested in witchcraft. :rolleyes: Well, after leaving the church I went to the library to check out his latest book. Honestly, I probably won't read them anymore - not b/c of the content - but b/c his plot in the last book was really weak and not as good as all the others. But, I would definitely reread books of his that I read before w/o feeling any guilt about it at all.

Meanwhile, she would watch/read all kinds of stuff I wouldn't touch w/a ten foot pole. Must've been that beam in her eye causing her to not see how bad that stuff really was. ;)

[Jo Jo]

Yes, I can't stand the charismaticy kind of language. I know I couldn't sit in a service of it, even if the people mean well and there isn't any abuse in their church. I can't stand an inkling of it when I'm turning through the TV channels or anything. I guess I'm all the way burned out now for sure. I can tell there are a couple of the pastors in the new church I'm going to that want to "encourage" us to grow in the Spirit. It's so funny. I mean it's a really tame little mainline denominational church so I figure I'm safe there. But you can just tell... my feelers are up on this. I just want to say to them, "you have no idea where I've been." They must be crazy to want to encourage one of "those" revivals in their church. I'm sure there are others there with similar stories. I can't be the only one.

I can only hope in 7 years the tapes aren't playing and, oh gosh, I'm still a Christian. I get really scared that I just fade and fade and fade away until I can't stand any of them and somehow God gets caught up in it all. And I'm like the seed in the rocky ground . AHHHHHHHHHHHH he he I just miss when I was a new Christian and had so much hope and trust and some how that trust was kidnapped by leadership and it was all buggered up. I mean I know it was my fault ultimately, but, well, poop.

[Doug64]

Yes, I can't stand the charismaticy kind of language. I know I couldn't sit in a service of it, even if the people mean well and there isn't any abuse in their church. I can't stand an inkling of it when I'm turning through the TV channels or anything. I guess I'm all the way burned out now for sure. I can tell there are a couple of the pastors in the new church I'm going to that want to "encourage" us to grow in the Spirit. It's so funny. I mean it's a really tame little mainline denominational church so I figure I'm safe there. But you can just tell... my feelers are up on this. I just want to say to them, "you have no idea where I've been." They must be crazy to want to encourage one of "those" revivals in their church. I'm sure there are others there with similar stories. I can't be the only one.

I can only hope in 7 years the tapes aren't playing and, oh gosh, I'm still a Christian. I get really scared that I just fade and fade and fade away until I can't stand any of them and somehow God gets caught up in it all. And I'm like the seed in the rocky ground . AHHHHHHHHHHHH he he I just miss when I was a new Christian and had so much hope and trust and some how that trust was kidnapped by leadership and it was all buggered up. I mean I know it was my fault ultimately, but, well, poop.

Yes. Jojo, that 'first love' we had was really great. But in so many cases, it was caused by or through misinformation. That does not invalidate or diminish it in any way but we were lead astray by false teaching. A friend called in 'fleecing of the sheep' and applied it to his former church always pleading for money, but it applies to any incorrect teaching we received.

As long as we still love God I don't think there is cause to worry about fading away. It's a matter of finding what is right for you at this point in your life.

Doug

[Jo Jo]

Yes Doug that is really encouraging and really rings true to me.

I remember not long after I became a Christian, (which was a neat experience for me, it was just me and God after I read the new testament, no one 'leading' me), the Continental Singers came to our church. Does anyone remember them? I often joked around that time about the Continental Singer doctrine. It's like this: "I'm so happy all the time, nothing goes wrong, and I'm perfect" It's like how they were wrapping God up in this package like if you would accept him your life would be perfect, there would be no more suffering, you would look good and smell nice, too. HA

That is kind of how that first emotional accepting God high is. It's hard for me to separate that, well missing that, and how my true relationship with God is now. I know I'm still deprogramming from this bad little church I went, too. Even though they didn't preach that... they did have this spiritual high thing going on, and those addicting emotions.

As long as we still love God I don't think there is cause to worry about fading away. It's a matter of finding what is right for you at this point in your life.

This is really something good to hold on to. :)

[outcast]

OMG Jo Jo! I wanted to BE a continental singer after I saw them once in concert here in TX. Small world! :)

[Jo Jo]

That is wild! I know they traveled all over. I'm up here in Washington State and saw them here. They were like fabulous and perfect and all. I remember some of my friends tried out for them. I always thought that maybe I would get up enough courage that 'next' year maybe I would try out for them. But they only came by about three years. I wonder what happened to them?

[outcast]

I don't know... I haven't seen/heard of them since that time. :P

[Jo Jo]

Maybe they were all taken up to heaven in a golden chariot.

Oh that is so bad... sorry, he he :rolleyes:

They really were quite fabulous.

[mary]

Put another way, the ministeria operate under different 'rules' than the rest of us.
They often cloak things like adultery/fornication as 'pastoral' priviledges or something similar because of their unique 'relationship/service to God.

happy Doug

Oh, Doug. I wish I'd seen the above statement of yours last August... That's when, after a particular incident, "pastor" told my husband that he had "a right" to hug me in any way he wanted to. My husband, a military veteran and general, all-around tough guy, wanted to take "pastor's" head off on the spot, but I talked him out of it. Instead, I did it myself a few weeks later, with words. A few weeks after that, "pastor" threw me out of the "church."

I've seen the ministeria get away with things that the rest of us would be thrown in jail for, not to see daylight for a good, long time. This particular "pastor" is revered by the rest of the denomination, which says a lot about them.

Even though the denomination banned me from their message board, I've been getting my kicks by re-registering under a different user name and e-mail and then blasting them. My next post on their lovely and gracious MB will be simply to (1) tell them that I haven't heard one of their pastors yet who can preach his way out of a paper bag and (2) advise them that I have made the diagnosis that they are a boil on the butt of Christianity that needs to be lanced without further delay.

I think I'd be doing them a favor, a mighty big one.

mary

[outcast]

Maybe they were all taken up to heaven in a golden chariot.

Oh that is so bad... sorry, he he :rolleyes:

They really were quite fabulous.


LOL :D Well, I enjoyed it Jo Jo. But yes, they were really great.