Troubled MInd

[lee^1]

I realize I have not shared my story here, and at some point I hope to be able to sit through writing it, to share with you all. I will share a bit here as a lead to why I am writing this post in the wee hours of the morning. I was pretty much driven out of a church that I had assisted in founding back in 1983. This event occured about 6 or maybe 7 years ago, I do confess to trying to forget the exact time frame, due to the painfulness of the whole thing.

After all of these years of trying to free from the whole wasted mind set of pentacostalism, I still find I am tortured by it. Through a bizarre set of circumstances, my family and I have been renting a house that is owned by the pastor who actually orchastrated my being chased from the church. The lease is up and he is going to sell the house and I need to move my wife, myself, and our 2 grandsons, who are 4 and 5 years old.

The pastor has apparently already found buyers for the house. I had a deal with someone to rent their house for a reasonable rate, and do some work on the house as well. That person called today and said they could not honor the deal, because of some insurance issues. Maybe he is blessed and I am not?

As I sit here pondering my next move, I find myself being plagued with those old thought lines about maybe I am the one not living right and God will not bless me because I am not in church, living the "faith life". Intellectually I know that is not right, but I as I said I feel cursed with these thoughts and can't seem to shake them no matter what. I am wondering, does anyone else struggle with these kind of thoughts? I must say I am over the top frustrate at how much I allowed those warped ways of thinking to take control in my mind, and I am unbelievably tired of them still exerting their effect on me. Maybe once we have been indoctrinated into this stuff there is no way to ever be fully free from it. Maybe they are right and I am wrong? If as you read this it sounds like a plea for some sanity and some help, it is!

[Janice]

Intellectually I know that is not right, but I as I said I feel cursed with these thoughts and can't seem to shake them no matter what. I am wondering, does anyone else struggle with these kind of thoughts?

Yep...if I allow myself to "go there", I can feel I've been cursed with cervical cancer because of my past promiscuity.

I thought that exact thing when I was fist dignosed but, I also know that God has forgiven me, my past is passed which is why they call it the "past".

And I know He IS a loving, merciful, and forgiving God, not a punishing God.

[Willow]

I am wondering, does anyone else struggle with these kind of thoughts? I must say I am over the top frustrate at how much I allowed those warped ways of thinking to take control in my mind, and I am unbelievably tired of them still exerting their effect on me. Maybe once we have been indoctrinated into this stuff there is no way to ever be fully free from it. Maybe they are right and I am wrong? If as you read this it sounds like a plea for some sanity and some help, it is!

Oh my God Lee!!! Do I EVER struggle with this kind of thinking. It's not so bad when good things happen and I think "God is smiling on me today". However... when bad stuff happens, I can't just say "shit happens" I have to attach the displeasure of God on it. When I get in this loop... I try to say over and over again to erase the tapes, "Amy... sometimes shit happens. God doesn't have anything to do with it."

When I left the church all my pets were killed or died in some cruel and unusual way. This has tortured me for a long time. Was god killing my animals??? Or maybe I just needed to be free of them to move out of that town? Or. Or. Or.

Anyway... I sure do relate. And... I'm giving you hugs right now. Hoping you get into that new place that is just right for you and your peeps.

[Jerry]

Maybe he is blessed and I am not?



Hmmmm,,,,,,,a "Wife" & 2 "Grandsons",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,want to rethink that ???? ;)

Love Jerry

[dougjb]

As I sit here pondering my next move, I find myself being plagued with those old thought lines about maybe I am the one not living right and God will not bless me because I am not in church, living the "faith life". Intellectually I know that is not right, but I as I said I feel cursed with these thoughts and can't seem to shake them no matter what. I am wondering, does anyone else struggle with these kind of thoughts? I must say I am over the top frustrate at how much I allowed those warped ways of thinking to take control in my mind, and I am unbelievably tired of them still exerting their effect on me. Maybe once we have been indoctrinated into this stuff there is no way to ever be fully free from it. Maybe they are right and I am wrong? If as you read this it sounds like a plea for some sanity and some help, it is![/QUOTE]

Hi Lee^1,
You are not alone when it comes to those 'old thoughts.' I have been out of the charismatic thing for 10 years and I still have daily 'flashbacks.' However, over time, in the providence of God, those thoughts, flashbacks, and self-question have given me an ability to recognize and pro-actively respond to the manipulation and mind-games of those in the Pentecostal churches. When I came to Christ in a Pentecostal church, no one told me or was I prepared for all the manipulation, bad doctrine, and all the general goof-ball stuff that was going on. Don't condemn yourself by thinking that as you said, '...how much I allowed those warped ways of thinking to take control in my mind..' It sound like, correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like the old blame the 'victim' tactic. It is not your fault that they misused and abused scripture, your trust, and violated you.
Lee^1, what you said sounds like a chapter out my life. I was always told that if there was problem, then it was my fault, there was something wrong with me. God has not erased the history of my past, but the Lord has 'turned the tables' on the abusers of my past by taking those experiences and using it for good. I know it can be hard at times, but the Lord will get your through this and you will shine in the end for the glory of God.

some food for thought
Dougjb

[lee^1]

Hmmmm,,,,,,,a "Wife" & 2 "Grandsons",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,want to rethink that ???? ;)

Love Jerry

Well it would be great if we could just be grandparents, however we are having to raise 2 of our grandchildren, that is another long and complicated story......:)

[lee^1]

As I sit here pondering my next move, I find myself being plagued with those old thought lines about maybe I am the one not living right and God will not bless me because I am not in church, living the "faith life". Intellectually I know that is not right, but I as I said I feel cursed with these thoughts and can't seem to shake them no matter what. I am wondering, does anyone else struggle with these kind of thoughts? I must say I am over the top frustrate at how much I allowed those warped ways of thinking to take control in my mind, and I am unbelievably tired of them still exerting their effect on me. Maybe once we have been indoctrinated into this stuff there is no way to ever be fully free from it. Maybe they are right and I am wrong? If as you read this it sounds like a plea for some sanity and some help, it is!

Hi Lee^1,
You are not alone when it comes to those 'old thoughts.' I have been out of the charismatic thing for 10 years and I still have daily 'flashbacks.' However, over time, in the providence of God, those thoughts, flashbacks, and self-question have given me an ability to recognize and pro-actively respond to the manipulation and mind-games of those in the Pentecostal churches. When I came to Christ in a Pentecostal church, no one told me or was I prepared for all the manipulation, bad doctrine, and all the general goof-ball stuff that was going on. Don't condemn yourself by thinking that as you said, '...how much I allowed those warped ways of thinking to take control in my mind..' It sound like, correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like the old blame the 'victim' tactic. It is not your fault that they misused and abused scripture, your trust, and violated you.
Lee^1, what you said sounds like a chapter out my life. I was always told that if there was problem, then it was my fault, there was something wrong with me. God has not erased the history of my past, but the Lord has 'turned the tables' on the abusers of my past by taking those experiences and using it for good. I know it can be hard at times, but the Lord will get your through this and you will shine in the end for the glory of God.

some food for thought
Dougjb[/QUOTE]
You are right, I imagine like many others I fall into the blame the victim trap. I think part of what I struggle with this is that I was a leader in the church for a long time. I in fact was an abuser, and maybe that makes my struggle even harder. When I did finally begin to question what was being saif and done to people, I think the abuse that began to be heeped on me was even more virulent.

[outcast]

Lee, I can totally understand and identify w/you. I recently left a charismatic church too and am still struggling in the new one I am in. The mindsets are hard to break b/c they were so programmed into us. I will be praying for you.

[hornblower]

Lee I went to charismatic churches and I never once bought into the faith stuff not once. I fought it and I wasnt alone either. If you got out of that thinking then hallelujah is all I can say thats fantastic, welcome home my brother!

But you know what even I have always felt this way.............even though I never believed it.
Heres what I think it is. I think pure and simple its the devil. Now maybe not but if it isnt then its our own flesh fighting God and i can proove it to you.

If its true that God only blesses those who have faith then how come Peter was crucified upside down? Why did Paul suffer such deep depression that he said that he despaired of even his life. Paul was extremely lonely too. How about Jesus then? Was Jesus just having an unblessed day you think because of His lack of faith, the day He was crucified?
Or how about that day all of the desciples left Him except for the twelve? Or how about that day he cried over Lazurus? Next minute He was raising Him from the dead. Was Paul not blessed because of his lack of faith and thats why he was beaten, whipped, stoned, and arrested and put to death in Rome?

Well of course we cant put ourselves up there with them can we? Ok then so what are we to say then because we arent as good as they are so we should be rich? Wasnt it the religious pious people that persecuted them?

Faith is about believing in Jesus when things are bad not when things are good. Well actually its not hard to believe in Jesus when things are good it doesnt take any faith at all to believe in Him then.

So therefore my friend you are NOW being blessed because the word says that blessed are you when you encounter various trials knowing that your faith is being tested and that you are not alone because also you have many brothers all over the world that are going through these same things.

So when you have gone through these same trials you can then turn around afterwards and help to strengthen your brethren that are suffering too in these same ways as you are right now.


In my mind Im always to blame for something Ive done wrong somewhere or another. But the bible says................nothing can seperate me from the love of Christ Jesus and that now that I am a believer in Him there is now no condemnation in Him. He died for me and paid for all of it finisimo!!!!!!!!!!!

I will be praying for you Lee that God will find you all a place to live. You belong to Him He loves you and Im so sorry you are in this awful world of suffering. Some day we will all be free, take heart.

Dont let anyone steal what you have with Him. He will never ever leave you. You belong to Him.

[Jo Jo]

As I sit here pondering my next move, I find myself being plagued with those old thought lines about maybe I am the one not living right and God will not bless me because I am not in church, living the "faith life". Intellectually I know that is not right, but I as I said I feel cursed with these thoughts and can't seem to shake them no matter what. I am wondering, does anyone else struggle with these kind of thoughts? I must say I am over the top frustrate at how much I allowed those warped ways of thinking to take control in my mind, and I am unbelievably tired of them still exerting their effect on me. Maybe once we have been indoctrinated into this stuff there is no way to ever be fully free from it. Maybe they are right and I am wrong? If as you read this it sounds like a plea for some sanity and some help, it is!

Yes, I struggle with these old thoughts too. After I left this charismatic/cultic little church I was going to, strange bad things started happening to me, and I still struggle with these thoughts on them.

I blew a disc in my back... the same area the Pastor's wife had back surgery on and got well... it was like I felt I was given HER illness for punishment. My dearest little dog that was my biggest comfort for years started having horrible pains and crying and writhing on the floor, it was revealed that a bone was broken in her neck that had never shown up before... it had been there all her 12 years of life but only then started bothering her. The vets wanted to keep her alive to see if it would get better and I had to keep her for two months like that until I told them - insisted they put her to sleep... she ended her life here a frightened paranoid pain ridden confused little animal - totally in pain. She just didn't deserve any of that. It was horrible. Any other thing during that time I wondered if it was punishment for leaving that church, or if the people there were cursing me, even though I don't even believe in that... but I was starting to!

But I just kept having to say over and over again that these things didn't apply to the fact that God was punishing me. I have to fight those "tapes" in my head that have been programmed in. eek! I can just hear what the people would say concerning any problem in my life. But that doesn't mean they are right. I have learned they are very wrong. From the things that were going on at that church, I knew I was right for leaving. I just kept going over in my mind all the reasons and even some scripture I had for getting out of there. And it was good and solid. So I held firm and things just kept getting better for leaving, I was happier spiritually. All the bad things didn't clear up, because life just keeps happening, whether we are in church or out. Life just happens. We are blessed everyday, and everyday we have to also deal with troubles. Good and bad fall on all. And I just remind my self of that, because in some charismatic churches we are filled with the lies of that "magical" thinking. If you live like God wants you to he will only give you good things. He's not a sugar daddy, and that is just unfair to his character and to all his beloved children who he is calling to him. So every time that old thinking or flashbacks start up I just keep battling them with new ways of thinking, but somedays are easier than others, for sure they are. :S

I've been very depressed sometimes since then, but I just won't let those people win. I've found a more traditional church that I'm more happy with. It's not perfect, none of them are. I've made some friends there, and most people seem to be quite friendly. Some churches arn't, it took quite a bit of looking, and that is very scary, I understand. I also got back into my art and did things I wanted to do. I re-istablished some lost ties with family that my old charismatic/cultic church had isolated me from. I just keep fighting for me, though, because I'm not going to let those people that tore me down so much win. Even when I'm depressed. I take some days off and I feel like poop, but then I keep going, and things are really better on the outside, there is joy here and they had sucked it all gone before.

[Carmen]

I also used to be in pentecostal/charismatic circles. So often I thought I was being punished for something, or that the devil was putting pressure on me, when either I only had to put up with the direct consequences of my actions or just had plain bad luck.

I think that the more important thing is not what is happening, but how we deal with what is happening. I think that a large part of spiritual warfare takes place in the heart, has to do with motives and strong emotions like anger and despair It is more important how we deal with what happens to us, rather than what happens to us.

Whenever God was dealing with me at least, it was never directly through circumstances, but was a matter of the heart; he let me know it was him beyond a doubt, but it never had to do with anything other than the state of my heart. Just my experience.

[hornblower]

maybe the things that go on in these churches are because everyone or at least a lot of us do feel this way inside.

I started to say last night when I was responding to this post that actually I started believing this crap at a very early age, at least six years old I know. Now my Mother took me to church and that church definitely was weird in a whole lot of ways but it sure wasnt charismatic. I hated it there. So maybe thats where this idea of mine originated or maybe it was inside of me and my wrong thinking. I hated my Mother we fought all of the time. I used to step on a crack break your Mothers back all the way to school. I hated school. I hated a lot of things and because of that I always believed that bad things happened to me for a reason.........that reason being I AM BAD!
I still have these same old tapes plaguing me day after day. This morning is particularly bad. Im very anxious and depressed here.
When I was growing up I never heard things like you are pretty or you are sweet are you are creative or you are smart.......nothing. Those things were never said to anyone by anyone because that would be making someone conceited about themselves. My Mother was raised like that and so was my Dad so they didnt know anything else.
Still even though I know my grandsons always hear good things about themselves and are told about a gazillion times how much they are loved and how wonderful they are my little grandson hits himself sometimes and says Im no good or things sort of like that. Not often but at times. I think its because he is small for his age I dont know he is so beautiful its hard for me to realise what could be wrong?
So anyway could this be part of growing up and our human nature? This thinking we are to be punished? Or should be punished?
I want it to go away.
I know that Jesus took our punishment! He did. So this is wrong what we are hiding deep down inside.
Im sick. I need a physician. Help me Lord?

[ex-shep]

[that reason being I AM BAD!
I still have these same old tapes plaguing me day after day.

Give me that old shame based behavoir. It is bad enough for me. I struggle with the old tapes too. I love the brother who refers to the tapes as "the committee". I responded with:

God grant them the serinity to accept the thing they cannot change
Courage to change they can and the wisdom to know the difference--
and if that does not work, let them make clay bunnies.

I refer to it as the Obsession channel. Coming up next, everybody's favorite game show "Woulda Coulda Shoulda" followed by Name that Shame: Tonight March 24, 1974 and you blew it [sounds of maniacal laughter]. Fortunately I have enough one days at a time to know when to change the channel. I can also remember Richard Nixon's energy speech in 1973 to turn off all unneeded appliances.

Yucky stuff, isn't it?!!

[hornblower]

[that reason being I AM BAD!
I still have these same old tapes plaguing me day after day.

Give me that old shame based behavoir. It is bad enough for me. I struggle with the old tapes too. I love the brother who refers to the tapes as "the committee". I responded with:

God grant them the serinity to accept the thing they cannot change
Courage to change they can and the wisdom to know the difference--
and if that does not work, let them make clay bunnies.

I refer to it as the Obsession channel. Coming up next, everybody's favorite game show "Woulda Coulda Shoulda" followed by Name that Shame: Tonight March 24, 1974 and you blew it [sounds of maniacal laughter]. Fortunately I have enough one days at a time to know when to change the channel. I can also remember Richard Nixon's energy speech in 1973 to turn off all unneeded appliances.

Yucky stuff, isn't it?!!


lol you make me smile ex shep. thats cute, thanks.