This Is What I Want to Do! This Is What I Did!

[Illuminated]

Continuing on the discussion in the Is It Us? Are We The Ones? thread, I have been thinking about what I want to do to begin to expose, gently, the people in leadership who dished out the abuse.

Maybe some other people could also tell what they have done to confront or expose their abusers already and what the results were. Also, some people have been researching this issue and might have some more information about the idea of exposing and confronting our abusers.

This is what I am thinking about doing:

I want to write a letter to the board members of the group and snail mail it to them certified mail. Included with the letter I want to give them an account of the actions of the leadership regarding the way I was treated. I will ask them very nicely if it would be possible for them to give me a reason for the treatment I received. Something like "Would it be possible for you to explain to me why I was treated in this manner?"

I won't make any judgements - like write: You are all so cruel. You are wrong. You are sinning. I won't tell them how much their actions have affected my life. I won't go into details about the abusive treatment we all received there. I won't mention spititual abuse.

I will just state the facts, give them the evidence (copies of emails), and ask for a written explanation of the actions of the leadership.

Whaddya think? :confused:

Take what works :o and leave the rest.

[dougjb]

The issue of spiritual abuse in the charismatic movement is something that has to be addressed. I am glad that there are people who are willing to start taking proactive steps in correcting this problem. I spent 17 years in the charismatic movement with the last 8 years attempting to make changes in the church I was attending. [I left back in 1996] I found that there is a lot of resistance to change. I found out the hard way.
As I began to challenge some of their teaching, an all out knock down drag out fight broke out that turned into a real mess. It may soud like bad news, but in reality, it was one of the best things that ever happened. The reason is that the veneer of their so-called superior spirituality was exposed and I was able to get a good look at the internal working and behind the scene activities of the charismatics. In the continuous battling with these people, the emphasis moved from, not just what they were doing, but to WHY they doing it. It was at this point that I really began to go on the offensive.

[dougjb]

This is Dougjb, I hit the wrong key and cut myself off from my own reply. This will be a continuation of the last entry [my typing is really bad]

I was able to go the offensive because I started to ask them to justify what and why they were doing from the Bible. They could not justify their actions except to say that God revealed it to them. At the moment, I am not really prepared to go into a lot of details, but I would like to share some of the things I learned to see if anything resonates with any one.
1. The biggest issue involves "authority." What is the ultimate and final authority in the church, is it the prophetic gifts, revelations of the present day prophets and apostles, or is it the Bible? The charismatics claim that it is the Bible but the leadership has a greater revelation of the will of God. Therefore, everyone should obey the leadership because of their superior gifts. The consequence is that you are not to question the decisions of the leaders. If you do question their authority or decisions it is evidence of an unsubmissive and rebellious heart and of course some pyschological problem. I was told that I had soul structure problems because of my unsubmissiveness to the leadership and when I agree with the leadership, it was evidence of being normal - that went over with me like lead balloon.
The point is that they are acting on their own authority and not the authority established in Scripture. How does one get people to submit to their authority if God is not behind it? One is forced to use manipulation, brain washing techniques, coersion, intimidation and anything to force compliance.

The authority issue is significant because it will lead directly to other issues. The charismatic leaders need to have absolute authority. If someone is able to challenge one thing they are doing, then you could potentually challenge everything they are doing. If one is doing anything that does not comport with Scripture, then you dare not have anyone question anything you are doing. It would be a rare thing to see the leadership in a charismatic church be accountable to any independant authority who had the power to remove them from office.
The authority structure in charismatic churches have a two tiered system - the church members [the plebs] and the aristocracy [the leaders]. Also, the authority structure is hierarchical and not horizontal [a leadership possessing a defined and limited authority]. This means that unless one are in leadership, you have no real voice in the church - except with your pocket book!:D

I could keep writting indefinately so I will stop for the time being. The greatest weapon I possessed to expose and fight again the abusive acitivities of those in the charismatic movement was sound doctrine knowing what I believed, why I believed it, and easily defended from Scripture. Always remembering that there is no authority unless it is given by God. Everyone must submit to God even the charismatic leaders. By the way, if you want have some fun with them get all confessional - they will probably go crazy - you cannot have the leadership accountable to a clear doctrinal standard. I did it and it was fun!

I covered a lot of territory in a short space. I hope that what was submitted will be food for thought.
* We are more than conquorers through him who loved us. Romans 8

[mary]

Continuing on the discussion in the Is It Us? Are We The Ones? thread, I have been thinking about what I want to do to begin to expose, gently, the people in leadership who dished out the abuse.

Maybe some other people could also tell what they have done to confront or expose their abusers already and what the results were. Also, some people have been researching this issue and might have some more information about the idea of exposing and confronting our abusers.

This is what I am thinking about doing:

I want to write a letter to the board members of the group and snail mail it to them certified mail. Included with the letter I want to give them an account of the actions of the leadership regarding the way I was treated. I will ask them very nicely if it would be possible for them to give me a reason for the treatment I received. Something like "Would it be possible for you to explain to me why I was treated in this manner?"

I won't make any judgements - like write: You are all so cruel. You are wrong. You are sinning. I won't tell them how much their actions have affected my life. I won't go into details about the abusive treatment we all received there. I won't mention spititual abuse.

I will just state the facts, give them the evidence (copies of emails), and ask for a written explanation of the actions of the leadership.

Whaddya think? :confused:

Take what works :o and leave the rest.

Hi, Illuminated,

Just, you know, watch out for libel charges... I had to do that when I had my attorney friend send "pastor" a slander warning letter. My attorney advised strongly against cc'ing it to the elders because, even though everything that was said in the letter was the truth, the attorney was signing it. The elders have the power to fire "pastor." The attorney didn't want to leave himself or me (especially himself) open to a lawsuit for libel. (We are first making the assumption, of course, as you would correctly be doing in your case, that these people are not your brothers and sisters in Christ.)

I had a slander warning letter sent to "pastor" because I had it on good information that he was spreading a particular rumor that he'd concocted in his head and that he knew was false. Had the rumor been of another nature, consisting of something other than what it was, I would not have had it sent. The particular slander was, at least in my state, of a per se nature, both as to me and as to the other person whose name "pastor" was using. The oher person, a professional, told me to "just get it done - and soon." So I did.

As our brother Jerry and others have frequently stated implicitly and explicitly here, we all have our confrontation "preferences" and dreams... Would that we could actually follow through with them! The problem is that, at least in my case, the people I was dealing with have all the social graces, aplomb, tact, diplomacy, discretion and manners of trousered but not-exactly-housebroken apes. (Oops - I don't mean to insult any apes who might be reading this! :D ) I should have known this once I observed their table manners at fellowship luncheons, but having been to Great Britain a few times, I chalked it up to, well, they're Brits and they don't know how to use knives and forks anyway. :p But I digress: you're also dealing with people who are simply clueless and when they're evil to boot, you've got a real problem in trying to deal rationally with them.

If you're determined, go for it, but expect the same kind of barbarism you've experienced thus far. As my counselor told me a couple of days ago when I was talking about how "it's been 8 months and I can't seem to let this go!" - "pastor" is God's "project." He's not my project. God has taken this "project" on and it will be dealt with according to His specifications, not mine. His "specs" will be much more appropriate and likely worse than anything I can ever dream up.

Unless, of course, He decides eventually to save "pastor" - and I have to pray for the will to pray for that on my own - and then, none of this will matter and I won't care anymore anyway...

Just remember that what they did to you matters a whole lot more to the God of righteousness than it even matters to you!!! :) :D :cool:

I will pray for your decision.

mary

[profnachos]

Continuing on the discussion in the Is It Us? Are We The Ones? thread, I have been thinking about what I want to do to begin to expose, gently, the people in leadership who dished out the abuse.

Maybe some other people could also tell what they have done to confront or expose their abusers already and what the results were. Also, some people have been researching this issue and might have some more information about the idea of exposing and confronting our abusers.

This is what I am thinking about doing:

I want to write a letter to the board members of the group and snail mail it to them certified mail. Included with the letter I want to give them an account of the actions of the leadership regarding the way I was treated. I will ask them very nicely if it would be possible for them to give me a reason for the treatment I received. Something like "Would it be possible for you to explain to me why I was treated in this manner?"

I won't make any judgements - like write: You are all so cruel. You are wrong. You are sinning. I won't tell them how much their actions have affected my life. I won't go into details about the abusive treatment we all received there. I won't mention spititual abuse.

I will just state the facts, give them the evidence (copies of emails), and ask for a written explanation of the actions of the leadership.

Whaddya think? :confused:

Take what works :o and leave the rest.

I donno....

Once people are blinded by the system, it is impossible to have dialogue with them. I have tried, but it just does not work.

I have to remember back to when I was part of the system, and how closed I was to the possibility of the system being wrong.

[Willow]

i find.... just reaching people one by one who have been hurt by the system is enough for me.

[Jerry]

Dear Illuminated,,,,
I think you are having the "Vindication Fantasy" we all have that,,,,,,where do we send your "T" shirt ??? ;) It is such a wonderful fantasy :D
Love Jerry

[Illuminated]

I think you are having the "Vindication Fantasy" we all have that,,,,,,where do we send your "T" shirt ??? ;) It is such a wonderfull fantasyI know. :( I think part of my desire to tell the board of directors about the way I was treated is to kinda say - 'na-nany poo poo, stick your face in do-do!'

However, two other professionals have mentioned in their opinion that I could sue the organisation for lack of due process. One expert in missionary care wrote a document in 1997 that describes what was done to me as 'mission malpractice'.

Like Willow mentioned: "i find.... just reaching people one by one who have been hurt by the system is enough for me.": The other part of my desire is to try an make sure that other missionaries in the group are NEVER treated the way I was. Apprently this is a normal desire in people recovering form experiences in cult-like groups/churches.

Another part of my desire is to prompt the group to develop a missionary care policy manual and to develop a missionary care program for the other 55 missionaries that are in Africa. This desire is that standard 'desire to promote change' which would give me a concrete reason for undergoing the suffering.

In my dreams, right?:o

Profnachos mentioned "Once people are blinded by the system, it is impossible to have dialogue with them. I have tried, but it just does not work." I have tried for a year now via emails to one of the leaders and the CEO to get an answer to my question, and have not had any success. So, I figure the next step is paper and certified mail.

Mary - when you wrote "Just remember that what they did to you matters a whole lot more to the God of righteousness than it even matters to you!!!" I was very comforted. Thanks.

Doug? Have you been a fly on the wall of my life? :D Your thoughts about the way misled leaders think: "everyone should obey the leadership because of their superior gifts. ...you are not to question the decisions of the leaders. If you do question their authority or decisions it is evidence of an unsubmissive and rebellious heart and of course some pyschological problem. I was told that I had soul structure problems because of my unsubmissiveness to the leadership and when I agree with the leadership, it was evidence of being normal " describe almost exactly what happened to me. I was told by a 25 year old PA to the leader that I 'needed inner healing' in an email. :eek:

Well, I think I understand logically what I am feeling and wanting. Just can't seem to let go emotionally. Gotta 'get the cult outta me'. Help me Jesus! :D

Any further input is certainly appreciated.

Take what works and leave the rest.

[Jerry]

In my dreams, right?:o



Nothin wrong with dreams kiddo,,,,,especially nice ones :D
Love Jerry

[Reg]

snip
1. The biggest issue involves "authority." What is the ultimate and final authority in the church, is it the prophetic gifts, revelations of the present day prophets and apostles, or is it the Bible? The charismatics claim that it is the Bible but the leadership has a greater revelation of the will of God. Therefore, everyone should obey the leadership because of their superior gifts. The consequence is that you are not to question the decisions of the leaders. If you do question their authority or decisions it is evidence of an unsubmissive and rebellious heart and of course some pyschological problem. I was told that I had soul structure problems because of my unsubmissiveness to the leadership and when I agree with the leadership, it was evidence of being normal - that went over with me like lead balloon.
The point is that they are acting on their own authority and not the authority established in Scripture. How does one get people to submit to their authority if God is not behind it? One is forced to use manipulation, brain washing techniques, coersion, intimidation and anything to force compliance.

The authority issue is significant because it will lead directly to other issues. The charismatic leaders need to have absolute authority. If someone is able to challenge one thing they are doing, then you could potentually challenge everything they are doing. If one is doing anything that does not comport with Scripture, then you dare not have anyone question anything you are doing. It would be a rare thing to see the leadership in a charismatic church be accountable to any independant authority who had the power to remove them from office.
The authority structure in charismatic churches have a two tiered system - the church members [the plebs] and the aristocracy [the leaders]. Also, the authority structure is hierarchical and not horizontal [a leadership possessing a defined and limited authority]. This means that unless one are in leadership, you have no real voice in the church - except with your pocket book!:D

snip

Right on Doug.

Here's something I posted awhile back about that.

FALSE AUTHORITY

“Because I’m the pastor, that’s why!” The words come hard and fast, their meaning penetrates:
“How dare you doubt me!” “Are you questioning my authority?” “Don’t be a troublemaker.” “Keep
the peace.” “Submit to you elder.”

Scripture verses come quickly to mind inseeming support of a blind sort of obedience
and submission. Heb 13:17: “Obey your leaders, and submit to them; for they keep
watch over your souls, as those who will give account.” Romans 13:1-2: “Let every
person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except
from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore he who resists
authority has opposed the ordinance of God. Therefore he who resists authority has
opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation
upon themselves.”

With these scriptures echoing, we tell ourselves, I believe in the Bible, I want to be
obedient. He’s the pastor, the shepherd, God’s servant, His mouthpiece. He really must
know more than me. I really must be out of line. I must be seeing this wrong. Who am I
to question? I guess I had just better go along. Why? Because he’s the pastor, that’s
why.

This type of thinking is a symptom of living under leadership that legislates and
demands obedience to their authority. It rests upon a false basis for authority. The sole
basis on which they grasped this authority was because of their rank as ministers alone.
In other words, their authority was NOT founded on the fact that they were wise,
discerning and true. It was based soley in the fact that they were in charge.

In the new covenant, we see that Jesus established a new basis of authority. It was no
longer age, gender, or race. It is now based on the evidence of the Holy Spirit within
you. Attributes like maturity, wisdom, genuine holiness, and real knowledge are
required in order to evidence Jesus’ brand of authority. “Because I said so” does not
work anymore. “Because I’m the pastor” does not cut it. So if my basis for authority is
solely that I hold an office, I have a false basis for authority.

We do not have authority in God’s eyes simply because we are named the pastor, the
elder, or the chairman. We are going to have to speak the truth to have real authority.
We are going to have to be sensitive to the Spirit to have authority. We are going to
have to be wise, and seek to know and say what God says clearly and accurately.

[Quotes from the book “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse” by David Johnson & Jeff Van Vonderen]

[dougjb]

Thanks Reg for your input. I feel bad that others have had to endure what I experienced, however, I am also encouraged to know that there are others who recognize the misuse and false appeals to authority that people employ.

I would like to add some more food for thought about the misuse of authority from my experience in dealing with church leaders who have NO BUSINESS BEING THERE!

As you may have guessed, the major problem I had with leadership were those in the Charismatic/pentacostal movement. After years of dealing with these people and doing a lot of rearch, I began to make connections between what they were doing, and why they were doing it.

Charismatics tend to be very weak in their understanding of doctrine and theology. The result of their lack of sound biblical knowledge and undertstanding is that they tend to suppliment and replace the bible with other non-biblical belief systems. What they will do is wrap some scripture verse around some bogus idea and try to call it biblical or a prophetic word. The end result is that the Bible is subordinated to and supplimented with other non-Christian beliefs. Of course, if one questions the orthodoxy of what they are saying, you are rebellious, unsubmissive, and a carnal Christian who does not understand the deep things of God.

I think Reg got it right, "the false appeal to authority." Appealing to the office of a pastor is no justification especally when the doctrine is off the wall. What you end up having is nothing more than "A WILL TO POWER!!!!:mad: "

As 2Timothy 4:3 states, "For the time will come when men willnot put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what they itching ears want to hear."


The question I have is this, Has anyone else experienced church leaders pushing non-christian beliefs while using the Bible or some prophet revelation to justify themselves.