Fundamentalist pastor indicted on molestation

[profnachos]

<<<<Trigger warning>>>>.

Check out this article: Member: Church Knew About Molestation Allegations (http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=58006)

Quotes from members:
"Some of the deacons knew, the pastor knew."

"I've know it for years, but it was just kind of covered up, swept under the rug by everybody in charge,"

"He knew there were some indiscretions, but he didn't think it was good to bring them out, for the good of the ministry,”

Just three observations

* If they were so willing to cover up child molestation that even the most hardened criminals believe is the most heinous of crimes (They beat up prison inmates convicted of molestation), what else did they cover up?

Call them out for spiritual abuse? Still think that's possible? Can I have some of the stuff you've been smoking? They looked the other way while little girls were getting molested.

* If you remember during the Clinton/Lewinsky saga, his supporters supported him on the account of him having done a "good job" despite personal shortcomings. Christians strongly objected to that mentality.

Do you think the people at this baptist church supported Clinton? After all, they let their pastor get away "for the good of the ministry." The pastor was doing a good job.

* I bet that this pastor and church slammed the Catholic Church for turning a blind eye on molestors within the ranks of its priesthood.

[profnachos]

Found the church website (http://www.tbc.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=4091).

This isn't some little known church in the backwaters of a countryside. Check out the state of the art facilities.

The website presents the facade of business as usual, and you really have to look around to see if there is a statement regarding the molestation scandal. It is a corporation, and I suppose they have to maintain the PR image.

So here is the latest statement (http://media.tbc.org/download/statement3.pdf)regarding the case.

Today, attorneys Richard Smith and Ed Trent met the lead prosecutor at the State Attorney's Office regarding the matter. They have been assured that neither the church nor pastor Messer* is a subject of any criminal investigation.

Hooorrrrraaayyyyy! The church and the current pastor are off the hook. Great news. Now can we get on with the church business?

The other two statements are legalese mumbo jumbo about the "ongoing investigation", so nobody says nothing non-sense. But the church is legally off the hook and so is the current pastor. So all is well.

[dougjb]

When I first came to Christ, the church I was attending had the same problem. The pastor commited sexual sins and the leaders in the church attempted to sweep the problem under the carpet. It did not work and it caused a church to collapse. After reflecting on the issue of covering up the major sins in leadership, for the good of the ministry, is probably the greatest level of self-deception imaginable. The basic problem is personality worship. It's the idea that great leaders ultimately build the church and make successful ministries - sorry but it is a lie. Jesus Christ is the ultimate source of the success of the church. Christians and especially the leaders are called to obedience and faithness to the will of God.
If these people are truly concerned about the good of the ministry from God perspective, then they have an obligation to expose and remove the pastor for the sake of the church. It is God who cause growth not man!!!!!!!
Dougjb

[little lamb]

If these people are truly concerned about the good of the ministry from God perspective, then they have an obligation to expose and remove the pastor for the sake of the church. It is God who cause growth not man!!!!!!!
Dougjb

Amen!!!

[profnachos]

When I first came to Christ, the church I was attending had the same problem. The pastor commited sexual sins and the leaders in the church attempted to sweep the problem under the carpet. It did not work and it caused a church to collapse. After reflecting on the issue of covering up the major sins in leadership, for the good of the ministry, is probably the greatest level of self-deception imaginable. The basic problem is personality worship. It's the idea that great leaders ultimately build the church and make successful ministries - sorry but it is a lie. Jesus Christ is the ultimate source of the success of the church. Christians and especially the leaders are called to obedience and faithness to the will of God.
If these people are truly concerned about the good of the ministry from God perspective, then they have an obligation to expose and remove the pastor for the sake of the church. It is God who cause growth not man!!!!!!!
Dougjb

Amen. Very well stated.

Makes you wonder besides child molestation, how many other things they let slip "for the good of the ministry."

[Scooter]

Amen! How arrogant and foolish for a human to act as though they have the knowledge and power to sustain the Body.

The basic problem is personality worship. It's the idea that great leaders ultimately build the church and make successful ministries - sorry but it is a lie. Jesus Christ is the ultimate source of the success of the church. Christians and especially the leaders are called to obedience and faithness to the will of God.

[Scooter]

What story is it where the guy hid the spoils of war under his tent after God told the Hebrews to destory everything? It's somewhere in Exodus. I forget the guy's name, but he and his whole familiy were swallowed by the ground because of the disobedience. It just reminds me of these people hiding sexual sins. Instead of building up the community, it tears it apart and God removes His blessing.

Okay, so we're not living in the Old Testament. There's something called grace. Maybe the church and the pastor will get away from indictment, but I'm thinking that the ministry will be spiritually void unless they refocus and make major changes. God might bless individual church-goers for their faith in Him, but how can He bless a ministry that's emphasis is so far from Jesus? Might be a lot of money or a lot of people, but I wouldn't want to be the leaders standing before God trying to explain why I squandered the resources and led a church of emptiness.

[mary]

What story is it where the guy hid the spoils of war under his tent after God told the Hebrews to destory everything? It's somewhere in Exodus. I forget the guy's name, but he and his whole familiy were swallowed by the ground because of the disobedience. It just reminds me of these people hiding sexual sins. Instead of building up the community, it tears it apart and God removes His blessing.

Okay, so we're not living in the Old Testament. There's something called grace. Maybe the church and the pastor will get away from indictment, but I'm thinking that the ministry will be spiritually void unless they refocus and make major changes. God might bless individual church-goers for their faith in Him, but how can He bless a ministry that's emphasis is so far from Jesus? Might be a lot of money or a lot of people, but I wouldn't want to be the leaders standing before God trying to explain why I squandered the resources and led a church of emptiness.

Hey, Scooter, how about 1 Samuel 15, where Saul fails to kill the Amalekites? Is that who you're talking about?

Yeah, I'm real bothered by allegations of molestation and sexual impropriety that get completely stuffed under the carpet. I just don't get it. I mean, people saw some of what happened to me. An elder actually observed "pastor" doing certain things to me, taking me by surprise, and when he was reminded of it, he ignored it. Some of it didn't happen in private. Other people besides my husband saw... But it didn't matter. It still doesn't.

I pray for that congregation to dwindle to nothing. I pray for the buildings to have to be put up for sale. I pray for "pastor" and his swindling family to have to go back to the slimy, European holes they slithered out of. They think they're so much better than Catholics, that the RCC is a "false church" and they're a "true one."

Right.

mary

[Satscout]

What story is it where the guy hid the spoils of war under his tent after God told the Hebrews to destory everything? It's somewhere in Exodus. I forget the guy's name, but he and his whole familiy were swallowed by the ground because of the disobedience. It just reminds me of these people hiding sexual sins. Instead of building up the community, it tears it apart and God removes His blessing.

I believe you may be thinking of Achan. There was a battle they fully expected to win that they lost, and when they cast lots, they found that Achan had hidden some of the best of the robes and jewelry from the LAST battle in his tent. This was after they had been commanded to "dedicate/(destroy) everything to the Lord" in that place. God commanded that everybody in Achan's family join him on the one side and the rest of the Israelites on the other, then He opened the ground up and swallowed the guilty parties. It is generally assumed that his family must have known about the situation and covered it up.

Makes a body wonder why those who cover up stuff think they are any less guilty than those who do the actual deeds... or that God will hold them less responsible.

[Illuminated]

Makes a body wonder why those who cover up stuff think they are any less guilty than those who do the actual deeds... or that God will hold them less responsible.I think that perhaps those who do indeed 'cover up' the sins of those in the body of Christ have twisted the Scriptures. The Catholic leadership is very good at this.:mad:

One example of scripture that could be twisted to seem like it advocates Christians covering up the sins of other Christians is from I Peter 4:8: Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.

I have heard the phrase from the pulpit: "We cover our own." The meaning was that when a member sins, we do not cast them out, but we cover them in prayer and work towards their restoration to their relationship in Christ.:o

Another example of a scripture that could be twisted to mean that members should conceal the sins of another in love would be Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all transgressions.

In my experience last year, and it was not in a fundamentalist church, I saw rude, mean, and vile behaviour by other 'Christians' accepted by Christian leadership all in the name of 'the love of Jesus'. Hogwash.:mad:

Take what works :) and leave the rest.

[Jerry]

<<<<Trigger warning>>>>.

Check out this article: Member: Church Knew About Molestation Allegations (http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=58006)

Quotes from members:
"Some of the deacons knew, the pastor knew."

"I've know it for years, but it was just kind of covered up, swept under the rug by everybody in charge,"

"He knew there were some indiscretions, but he didn't think it was good to bring them out, for the good of the ministry,”

Just three observations

* If they were so willing to cover up child molestation that even the most hardened criminals believe is the most heinous of crimes (They beat up prison inmates convicted of molestation), what else did they cover up?

Call them out for spiritual abuse? Still think that's possible? Can I have some of the stuff you've been smoking? They looked the other way while little girls were getting molested.

* If you remember during the Clinton/Lewinsky saga, his supporters supported him on the account of him having done a "good job" despite personal shortcomings. Christians strongly objected to that mentality.

Do you think the people at this baptist church supported Clinton? After all, they let their pastor get away "for the good of the ministry." The pastor was doing a good job.

* I bet that this pastor and church slammed the Catholic Church for turning a blind eye on molestors within the ranks of its priesthood.

Just one point,,,,,,The Clinton/Lewinsky saga,involved consenting adults. That does not excuse the behavior however it is quite a different circumstance.I think your comparing apples and oranges.
Love Jerry

[profnachos]

Just one point,,,,,,The Clinton/Lewinsky saga,involved consenting adults. That does not excuse the behavior however it is quite a different circumstance.I think your comparing apples and oranges.
Love Jerry

Absolutely, Jerry.

The only thing I was comparing was this. When Clinton was in trouble for his moral failures, liberals brought up what a "good job" he was doing, so leave him alone. And conservative Christians slammed them for it. We want moral integrity. We want charater, etc. etc.

In the molestation case, the pastor did something about a trillion times more heinous. Yet, people at that church played the "doing a good job" card for 40 YEARS! This is the same group of people who slammed Clinton.

That is the only point I am making, and what you are saying actually strengthens my point. The same group of people who got their panties bunched up over Clinton's behavior which involved two adults looked the other way when the pastor did something much worse over and over and over again.

[Jerry]

Absolutely, Jerry.

The only thing I was comparing was this. When Clinton was in trouble for his moral failures, liberals brought up what a "good job" he was doing, so leave him alone. And conservative Christians slammed them for it. We want moral integrity. We want charater, etc. etc.

In the molestation case, the pastor did something about a trillion times more heinous. Yet, people at that church played the "doing a good job" card for 40 YEARS! This is the same group of people who slammed Clinton.

That is the only point I am making, and what you are saying actually strengthens my point. The same group of people who got their panties bunched up over Clinton's behavior which involved two adults looked the other way when the pastor did something much worse over and over and over again.

Good point Prof,,,,,,I am an Independent ,,,,,as far as I am conserned the Republicans are robbing the Bank and the Democrats are driving the Get-Away Car :D I have little use for either of them ;)
Love Jerry

[yeshua'smags]

We are all a big bunch of freakin hippocrites....where's the newsflash?

I guess the "emerging church" (us? I mean that's what I consider all of us having these awakenings, right?) are realizing that we don't want to be in the building with the flaming legalists anymore, right? We are realizing how amazingly self-rightous, and off-putting they are, and we don't want to be associated with that.

Anybody get me?

[scubasteve]

Can't say I'm a huge Clinton fan, but fooling around with a legal-aged intern, who may or may not have come onto him, isn't quite the same as a preacher taking indecent liberties with girls at his academy.

Yeshua'smags (cool name, by the way) is right! We are all a bunch of "freakin hippocrites".....let's hope we are all snapping out of it in time to raise this next generation with a little less legalism, and a little more understanding. They will be able to reach many more non-believers that way!

[yeshua'smags]

Thank you for the compliment scubasteve! And welcome to the forum. ;) :D

[scubasteve]

Anybody get me?[/[/COLOR]B][/COLOR]


Yeah, I get ya mags!