Skinless Red Grapes

[SpinningHead]

I think we've all heard the rationalization "There's no perfect church, if there was don't YOU go to it!". or some variation of it...

I hate it when people say this...why? because I think it's used to justify/rationalize inappropriate behavior. When one has the courage to say, "HEY! THIS ISN'T RIGHT!" or maybe begins to start looking for a new church...that's when this is used most. Or maybe from the pulpit when a pastor realized that people from the church are dwindleing.

Think about it..."no matter where you go, people are going to be abusive jerks so you might as well stay here and take it...oh, don't forget to tithe!"

I don't know...this phrase has been going in my ear sideways like a skinless red grape these days.

Thoughts?

[jane]

yep! We heard that too! All the time!

It was definitely a way that people kept themselves in denial and in the dysfunctional cycle.

I heard it all the time..... I actually heard one couple tell me that they felt like the church we were in was so out of the will of God that they thought Satan could be running it...but they were staying because they had visited other churches and well let's just say 'they had a spirit of poverty and lacked a spirit of excellance'

so they would say, "you know there is no perfect church and here we can make a difference because people are committed to doing things (even if they aren't from God) with a spirit of excellance"

MORE JUSTIFICATIONS TO ALLOW ABUSE-

and it is really no different than a battered woman who claims, " i can't leave yet....because...or he'll change"

It is simply phrases of denial.

you are right on target.

love,
jane

[Jerry]

Dear Spinninghead,,,,
I think it is rather comparable to twisting scripture,and that's why it bugs you.We all are fully aware that no Church is perfect. It isn't about perfection as opposed to imperfection.There is a vast difference between an imperfect Church,and a Church that can be defined as "Abusive".I am with you,,,,it makes me crazy when someone characterizes an "Abusive" Church as merely "imperfect" what !!!!!!!! are they nuts ???? Imperfect ???? no ABUSIVE !!!!! I could live with imperfect ;)
Love Jerry

[Scooter]

The issue of perfection and imperfection in churches never became an issue until after I left the abusive church. Even when looking for a new place, the old mantras tripped me up. After such an awful ordeal, I wanted a church that was right for me. Then I'd think, "No church is perfect. I don't want to be one of those people who is too picky about a church because it's comfortable or 'tickles my ears'." Oooo! :mad: That's another Scripture that was twisted at the abusive church.

The implication was that no church could be truly of God unless it was as hurtful and abusive as that one.

[profnachos]

Perfection or imperfection is not my issue. It never was. That mantra ("There's no perfect church, if there was don't YOU go to it!")is just stupid and unhelpful.

What I find most difficult to stomach is their self-congratulatory fests. Oh our church is so great. We are faithful to the Word of God. We have a very well known and godly pastor-teacher. Blah blah blah blah. Just go to my old fundamentalist church's website (http://www.gracechurch.org) and brace yourself for some serious self-congratulatory bull.

In the book of Revelation, all but one of the seven churches got at least some kudos from Jesus. The only church that got nothing but the brunt of Jesus' anger was the Laodicean church and He rimmed them for self-congratulatory non-sense.

[little lamb]

speaking of the self-congratulatory stuff. a couple of years ago i went and visited in the convalescent home the man who had been the main leader at the church i used to go to. he talked in glowing terms of the Bible study courses he'd written which were now distributed and translated into X many languages and mentioned having led some homosexuals to Christ. I'm sure he thought he was giving glory to God. But, on the other hand, he'd damaged the little lamb he was talking to and still couldn't offer any acceptance or even confidence that the Lord was big enough to make my life pleasing to Him.

Scooter, "Oooo" is right! I, too, was trained not to accept any obviously wimpy church that might "tickle the ears", make me feel comfortable, etc. It is a sad thing that these doctrine twists make it harder to have healthy relationship with churches after theirs. but God loves us and He's big.

[Reg]

Good topic SpinningHead.

It's like saying no one is perfect. It's just an easy way to divert one's attention. Like DAH, I didn't know that. Blah Blah Blah.

I would like to counter that silly statement when someone says, "No Church is Perfect" with saying Yes there is! The one that Jesus Christ now inhabits.

Furthermore, it's not so much about perfection in the church but HEALTH! Is the church healthy or not? Health can come now. We'll leave perfection for tomorrow.

Got to run and get ready to head up to the cottage. Have a great weekend everyone.