Depression = Disobedience?!

[Scooter]

I got the idea for this thread from one of jane's posts on the "Ptsd" thread.

How many of us were told that depression is the result of rebellion, discontent, and disobedience? I can only speak from my experience. The harder I tried to be submissive, content, and obedient, the more I became depressed. It was as though the people around me in the church (especially the pastor) believed that some people suffer from mental health issues, but no one in our church would.

The answers I received from my old church concerning depression? Here they are, followed by my reaction now that I'm out of that church.

1. Do the opposite. Act happy, and you'll be happy.
What?! How does this work?

2. Make sure you're not disobeying God. Maybe there's some way you're not being obedient, and you just haven't realized it yet.
Whoa...it's not like it could be a chemical imbalance, the harsh teaching in the church, or not being allowed to talk about what I'm feeling.

3. Pray more.
Um...I think some studies have confirmed that there's a part of the depressed person's brain that actually makes it harder to pray.

4. Stop being so busy. Satan is just getting to you through your busyness.
Maybe the busyness is what helps me not be so depressed.

5. Ignore what you're feeling and praise God.
Ignoring what I feel is never a good solution.

6. If you absolutely have to, go to a counselor. Just make sure they're a Christian counselor (i.e., who won't contradict what you hear in church).
Why? Because non-Christian counselors are evil and don't know anything?

Come on! Why is it that so many in the church deny the existence of real, mental health problems? And not just depression. Schizophrenia, DID, bipolar, anxiety, phobias, PTSD, addictions. Countless believers are in pain because they're isolated, and maybe they even feel ashamed and rejected if they reveal their struggles. Who's going to admit they experience one of these concerns if they're going to be labeled as "sinful?" I know I received a strong message when I was told, "Don't tell anyone at church that you're on anti-depressant and going to counseling. They wouldn't understand."

[jane]

scooter,

we were taught that as well....

I have never suffered from depression but after I lost the second pregnancies, and it was pretty traumatic....

well, to begin with, when I began to loose the baby, I called the intercessory team. The woman called me back and told me to "Just believe, to trust God." that If I had enough faith I would see the face of my child.

so when I lost the baby I was very depressed and grieving.

I asked for prayer soon after when my husband developed another medical condition.

I was told by the head of the intercessory prayer team that they were told by God to not pray for any more medical issues for me and my husband. They were told by God to pray for Faith.

So yeah, I guess in their minds our medical issues were a lack of faith....and a lack of faith was always disobedience in our church.

The more I surrendered the parts of me that I knew to be true to conform to their idea of holiness........the more numb I became.

In our church the chronically mentally ill were look down upon...they were seen as " well, we tried to teach them but it is between them and God know" with clucking tongues and disdain.


For me I knew that the people felt helpless trying to change the mentally ill's depression and had to blame the mentally ill- either that or it was God's fault or their fault- and they couldn't go either way.

love,
jane

[hornblower]

so why were the disciples (ms)? depressed so bad that they dispared of life itself? Like Paul?
Good post. and thankyou I was getting this mesage lately from Joyce Meyer. Of course what she said is that it is our thoughts that cause it.
Ive never been good at this.
She has a different personality than I do for sure.
She strikes me as one of those people that just does stuff and thats that!
My Mother was that way very disciplined.
Everything done at a certain time on time every day.
Im just the opposite.
I cant seem to change my thoughts. I dont know how to do it.
Love changes me almost immediately. Someone being kind and telling me truthful things.
If my husband would hug me?????????? I know I would do better than I am now. If he could just slow down and spoend a few minutes with me and turn that damn tv off or the radio off but its like he needs it to be that way.........distant from me.
Thats trhe way it is everywhere except when you get old and die........

Thats when my parents and i got so close. When they stopped just stopped!

DUH IM HERE!!!!!!!!!!!! ARE YOU IN THERE SOMEWHERE??????????:eek:
what do you know??????????? we were best friends then.

[Illuminated]

I know I received a strong message when I was told, "Don't tell anyone at church that you're on anti-depressant and going to counseling. They wouldn't understand."PAIN OF DENIAL!!!!! PAIN OF DENIAL!!!!
:eek: Keep taking those denial pain killing medicines!!!:eek:

I am so sorry you were fed that junk. It is disgusting.:mad:

How about “You need deliverance from a stronghold!” spoken in true love, but very hurtful. The one saving grace was that our pastor (not an abuser) suffered from depression also, (nobody knew except a few of us) and he preached an outstanding sermon on it one time called “Living on the Wrong Side of Hurt”.
:o

[SpinningHead]

My all time favorite teaching on depression was that if depresson wasn't demon possession, it was demon oppression! :eek:

My mother has been (at times) severely depressed through the years. And every time she gets like that, she eats, eats, eats and convinces the whole world of how good God is and has this over-hyper happiness about everything she says. She also doubles her activities/involvment in church and spends a lot of her energy trying to convince me of how healthy she is eating. I won't mention the junk food in the cupboards. She won't talk about her depression because that doesn't jive with the positive & faithful thinking we Christians are supposed to portray. She's been reading Joel Osteen's book...name it & claim it formula. Meanwhile, every "episode" gets worse. :(

[Scooter]

My all time favorite teaching on depression was that if depresson wasn't demon possession, it was demon oppression! :eek:

Wow! That's a blast from the past! I forgot that one. Yeah, that was used as well. Depression or whatever else was going wrong could be labeled as demon oppression.

My mother has been (at times) severely depressed through the years. She won't talk about her depression because that doesn't jive with the positive & faithful thinking we Christians are supposed to portray. She's been reading Joel Osteen's book...name it & claim it formula. Meanwhile, every "episode" gets worse. :(

I'm sorry your mother goes through this depression. It sounds like it's so hard to watch as she tries to "fix" it with what she's been told will work. Oh, my heart is aching for you and your mother.

[SpinningHead]

I'm sorry your mother goes through this depression. It sounds like it's so hard to watch as she tries to "fix" it with what she's been told will work. Oh, my heart is aching for you and your mother.

Thanks...hand me a twinkie.

Soooooooooooooooo Kidding!! :)

[SpinningHead]

I should admit that I also suffer from depression....and I never felt a demon on my shoulder or that I was "out of the will of God". :mad: Therapist and I felt it was chemicle inbalance with "episodes" triggered by tramatic events. I've lived a long life since I was a child. :(

Anyway...that's one of the reasons I talk a lot about self care. Identifying my needs and meeting them took some of the pressure off bit by bit. These moments of relief turned into moments of gratefulness, contentment, relaxing, dare I say some happiness? Then training my brain and system to hold onto those memories...simple ones, like when a hummingbird comes to my feeder - it's a moment of grace. Hold onto that memory and feeling...when things got tough, dig through my grace moments and recall them. I could feel the chemistry within change just a little bit.

After a while, I had more and more moments of grace. Memories of joy...children laughing, I have a chickodee that lands on my book when I read in the back yard, sun through trees, walking w/ my dog on country roads, flowers, the wild raspberries that grow in my front field, hubby kisses me for no apparent reason, a prayer being answered, a fox and her cub wintered in a den by our house and I saw the cub! making jewelry and having a piece come out I really like, fabulous jeans on clearance for $15 that fit like a glove! really good coffee in the morning, just acknowledging the love of God...

The more and more moments of grace I acknowledge in life, the less I felt depressed as often. It's been a struggle, years of practice...I still have my days where I just watch movies...but I acknowledge the feeling and take care of it by not ignoring it or "willing" it away...

So that has helped me...

Any others have moments of grace?

Ya know...it bugs the tic off my neck when these churches think that there's a spiritual formula of praying enough, reading enough, having faith enough...WHY don't they talk about the grace and gift of salvation, resting in salvation, being grateful of our salvation, acknowledging we can't earn it- that's why it's a gift! One that should humble us and give us rest, give us hope...

And to even imply that God would punish us by threatening a loved one b/c we didn't do X enough :eek: ...:mad: Let me at em'! We'll kick their sorry depresessed, possessed, oppressed gluteous maximuses!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: They're stupid! Plain stupid! Just plain friggin' stupid! :mad:

[Scooter]

I should admit that I also suffer from depression....and I never felt a demon on my shoulder or that I was "out of the will of God". :mad: Therapist and I felt it was chemicle inbalance with "episodes" triggered by tramatic events. I've lived a long life since I was a child. :(

Congratulations on making it this far! :)

Anyway...that's one of the reasons I talk a lot about self care. Identifying my needs and meeting them took some of the pressure off bit by bit. These moments of relief turned into moments of gratefulness, contentment, relaxing, dare I say some happiness?

The more and more moments of grace I acknowledge in life, the less I felt depressed as often. It's been a struggle, years of practice...I still have my days where I just watch movies...but I acknowledge the feeling and take care of it by not ignoring it or "willing" it away...

Any others have moments of grace?

It's so beautiful to read what you wrote about all your "moments of grace." It wasn't until about a year ago that I started to be more kind toward myself and take care of my needs. And you're right - sometimes those needs are to sit with the sadness and do something comforting, instead of trying to pretend it isn't there.

My moments of grace? Getting lost as I play on the piano (can't do that much anymore - the piano is at my parents' house!) Watching fireflies light up a warm, deep blue summer night. Snuggling into my cat's playful embrace (the cat actually hugs you, lol! But he's also at my parents' house). Holding a baby in my arms and watching it fall asleep. Feeling hubby reach for me in the middle of his sleep. Laughing with my mom and sister until we cry. Seeing the delicate blooms of my flowers. Dancing with abandon. Watching the deer or wild turkey wandering through a field. Finishing a cross-stitch project.

:D Very good therapy, Spinninghead!

[Scooter]

Ya know...it bugs the tic off my neck when these churches think that there's a spiritual formula of praying enough, reading enough, having faith enough...WHY don't they talk about the grace and gift of salvation, resting in salvation, being grateful of our salvation, acknowledging we can't earn it- that's why it's a gift! One that should humble us and give us rest, give us hope...

And to even imply that God would punish us by threatening a loved one b/c we didn't do X enough :eek: ...:mad: Let me at em'! We'll kick their sorry depresessed, possessed, oppressed gluteous maximuses!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: They're stupid! Plain stupid! Just plain friggin' stupid! :mad:

Let's practice our kicks. Ready? One and...KICK! Two and...KICK! :p

My mom, sister, and I have a way of referring to the approach you described - the one about having faith enough. It's the BEEEEELLLLIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVE approach. *Note: You have to tense all the muscles in your body, scrunch up your face, and think really, really hard while you say this. How ridiculous! The whole point of faith and trust is that they're simple and give release.

I'm super frustrated that Christian leaders - particularly my former pastor - aren't emphasizing grace and the gift of salvation. Maybe they don't really know about it. Maybe they're afraid it won't work and people will sin willy-nilly (there's faith for ya). But nothing has been more freeing and exciting than what I'm learning about grace! It's got nothing on legalism. Besides, how much time did Paul, and Jesus, for that matter, spend talking about and showing grace? It has to be important! Then why aren't more leaders teaching it? Dang it - why didn't anyone show me this earlier?:mad: :confused: :eek:

[SpinningHead]

I think...IMHO...

that those moments of grace that carry me through a rough spot is the reality of "the joy of the Lord is my strength". Remembering the joy, the grace of God in my time of need is my strength to get through it.

[Scooter]

I think...IMHO...

that those moments of grace that carry me through a rough spot is the reality of "the joy of the Lord is my strength". Remembering the joy, the grace of God in my time of need is my strength to get through it.

Well said. Were you ever told to remember that "the joy of the Lord is my strength" as a response to depression? In my experience, we were told to remember this and be joyful and *poof*! No more depression. :mad:

This has made me think about something else. I think I'll start a new thread on it. :)

[jimsmuse]

You people are quite the inspiration, I have received much by reading what you have been sharing, thank you for reminding me of His grace! You all are wonderful, thank you! :)

love always,
Marcy

[IsthiswhoIam?]

[QUOTE=SpinningHead;31318]My all time favorite teaching on depression was that if depresson wasn't demon possession, it was demon oppression! :eek:

Most "deliverance ministries" out there that are anything but biblical, compassionate and honest. Rather they are damaging and encourage people to be less than honest about their current condition, which is not faith, but denial. (Faith in my view is believing that God will deliver me in the future and hopefully soon, not denying the current misery.)

On the other hand, I struggled a few years ago with some sudden onset depression, panic attacks and anxiety (all together!) that was nearly constant for six months, making me question my sanity. I came to realize my depression was demonic in origin and I studied the new testament for its approach to deliverance ministry, when I started to apply what I learned I received almost immediate results. It was certainly a struggle, but eventually I received total relief and have been depression free for many years.

This doesn't mean all depression is supernatural, or even that most depression is, but I believe that in some cases it is the enemy.

Here is my post on which is essentially a new testament approach to deliverance ministry:
http://www.tossingtables.com/podcasts/deliveranceministry.html

Hope it helps somebody!

[douglaslewis777]

wow depression, this is an interesting topic.
I have to relate to my own experiences. At one point in my life I suffered from depression. This was completely dibilitating. I didn't want to get up, I didn't want to do anything with my life.

It's funny though, I think about how I came out of it and I think we all can suffer from depression at one point or another. But "I" believe that depression is a symptom of lack of hope.

You know, every since I came through that experience I've tended to study spiritual topics on purpose. What I found is that as long as I have a goal in mind (Something I'm working on), depression goes away.

I think that depression, like pain, is a way for us to notice something. More so, I believe God is trying to tell us to get moving. I believe we are truely happy when we have something to work towards. This can be difficult at times because sometimes we don't really know what is next. I think that if when we feel depressed we ask God what is next, we'll stay motivated.

Motivation comes because we are excited about something we are working on. When I get down, I try to look at my life and see what I can improve or what I can do differently. I look at what new task I can accomplish or what I can finish that I started. This seems to give me an endles source of energy. It's tricky though, especially knowing that there are folks that can take advantage of us. We have to be careful that the goals that God gives us are from him & are for the right reasons. God given goals are challenging, but not oppressive. Also... work on just a few things at a time your brain has to know that what you are working towards "can" be accomplished. I love coming up with new stuff to do, but I really try to work on 1 thing at a time. For me that works best.

When you get down, it's not as simple as just beleive I'm happy and it all goes away. You know... doctors know that to fix a problem we have to know what is causing it. In my experience, I get depressed when I loose hope. Hope is, yes, given by God, but its also strongest when we know and understand our purpose at the time. You were created for a specific purpose that is unique for you. Sometimes that purpose changes. You have to know when God may be prodding you to something new.

God bless! Find YOUR purpose at this time in your Christian walk and you will find the Joy you seek by default AND IT WILL BE SO EXCITING YOU WONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, you wont have to force a smile, you will be happy! Love ya! Just my thoughts.

[Jerry]

6. If you absolutely have to, go to a counselor. Just make sure they're a Christian counselor (i.e., who won't contradict what you hear in church).
Why? Because non-Christian counselors are evil and don't know anything?


Dear Scooter,,,,,
No,,,,,,,,,,,,The fact is,that "non-Christian" counselors know exactly how "Evil" the "Christian Fundamentalists" really are,they know how absolutely possessed of Satan they are :eek: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my opinion for whatever it is worth :D I bet the fundies that hit this site are really gonna hate my guts now ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thats cool :D
Love Jerry

[Anna Marta]

Name IT and claim IT :D

Yeah, IF I could do that there'd be a lot less "christians" around abusing people!!! :mad: :mad:

Anna Marta
who is NOT a member of the local Osteen fan club!

[beginagainrose]

I was on anti-depressants for 9 yrs after my ex-husband was impaled on rebar at work and spent 3-1/2 months in the hospital. My abusive pastor began his campaign against me right there with "if you had more faith" - even came up and said, "wow, you're really not all here with us today, are you?" when I was adjust (and feeling stoned out of my mind - but in church!). I heard all the same stuff... I prayed through it anyway... when God came to me one day and said "lay them down"... I did and with no problems... and I still had to pray my way through... what I found is that God's grace was sufficient when I was on pills and His grace was sufficient when I wasn't. If meds help; take'em is my belief. We dont condem meds for other illnesses... it's a silly arguement I refuse to have with people. I tell people not to stop taking meds unless they are SURE that is what God shows them; no one can answer that but each person. My daughter went 5 yrs and was fine...until she went back to her abusive husband and his drunken abuse stressed so bad she needed them again... there is no condemnation from the Lord either way.:)

[Anna Marta]

Okay, I have to share this. In this country, antidepressants are called "Lykkepiller" (translated - happy pills). And this is not meant as a compliment!

My FORMER pastor just loved to use the term when he preached especially citing how this most Christian area of the country has the highest rate of use... now I wonder why???? He never seemed to put the 2 together. His premise was it is only powerless weak-in-faith Christians who need to depend on chemicals. It NEVER dawned on him - there were some deeply troubled people in his "flock" taking the meds and that he was heaping shame and guilt and fear on them. What a sicko! :mad:

Name and claim it again! - depression relieved only by medication as a means of behavioral change for fundamentalist charismatic preachers... yea God! :D :D :D