What's Your Story?

[Scooter]

I'm really interested in hearing about other people's experiences with harmful churches and leaders. Here's a little bit of mine...

I grew up attending four church services a week - two on Sunday, one on Wednesdays, and one on Fridays. Most of the people I knew were from my small church, and half of those were family. *Urgh - it sounds so weird when you actually start writing it down.*

Anyway, I lived in constant fear of "falling away from God," "backsliding," and "quenching/grieving the Holy Spirit." After accepting Christ at nine years old, I really wanted to do what was right. So when I heard messages about needing to love God more, try harder, rededicating our hearts to God...well, I tried. The pastors would watch as we worshipped and make comments about people not being open enough, or if we couldn't feel God's spirit, something was wrong in our hearts. As a little kid, it freaked me out.

I would wrench my soul to try to reach God, feel Him like the pastors said we should be able to. I'd berate myself because I wasn't fasting or praying for an hour or reading my Bible every day. I developed a constant sense of intense guilt and failure. Around the same time, depression set in. I dreaded waking up on "church days." By high school, I spent most of worship and prayer service time sobbing and begging God to help me and forgive me.

Eventually, I ran out of energy and slipped into severe depression. At church, I felt so beaten down that I withdrew. I learned to shut down my emotions - numb myself. The pastor made comments about how people whose head was down during worship or who didn't raise their hands were rebellious. Guess who that was? I started to escape to another place in my head, daydreaming to make it through church services. Lots of times I would think about how to kill myself to end the pain. I also developed disordered eating that grew to a full-blown eating disorder by the time I was in college.

I've been recovering for a while now, and am just starting to feel able to approach God a little bit. *whew*

[exmember]

AS funny as it sounds, the one thing that has helped me separate God from people, especially people who are Christians and have authority/positions of respect, is from Veggie Tales: God IS bigger than the boogieman! It takes us awhile though to admit that the boogiemen are not who we thought they were or ever would be...the boogiemen are sometimes pastors, elders, etc. who intrepret Biblical leadership to mean exerting control over the flock instead of serving the flock. I guess it just comes down to pride: Some people see true Biblical leadership as weak, and they have too much pride in thier own postions or education or special experiences or something, to allow themselves to serve others as Christ served. You see, true leadership means instilling the ability in others to go to God themselves, to trust God themselves, to understand Scripture without someone's intepretation overriding it. It essentially means FREEDOM to allow others to serve God how God has called them to serve according to the gifts and abilities God has given them. It is very scary for those who are insecure and interpret pastoring as controlling. Oh my goodness: someone in their congregation might be smarter or better liked or more gifted! Think of the FEAR they are living with. Wouldn't that be horrible to live like that?

Some of us recognize spiritual abuse and get the courage to leave. It is hard because you are turning away from something you loved and BELONGED to. We all need to belong. We all need to be wanted and needed. To put ourselves in a position where no one "wants" us is a difficult thing. And yes, depression is a natural consequence.

However. God will show you that you BELONG to Him. He will restore you. You will find a place to belong. It may take time and you may never be as trusting as you once were, especially towards "leadership". But that is ultimately a very healthy thing. No one us true authority over us except Christ. Period.

So, how to get there....well there's that "journeying" that is sometimes uncomfortable and lonely and sometimes filled with a few more errors or misktakes that take us down paths that are not as pleasant as we thought they would be. Cling to Romans 8. God can work all to good. Cling to Philippians. God will complete what He has begun. Trust God. Find a friend who is willing to walk thru this with you. Process process process....Scream and yell and say whatever needs to be said. Give yourself TIME. The one thing we Americans hate to give ourselves. Healing is NOT a button on the microwave! (How i wish it were!)

I just dreamt again of my old pastor and his wife...I was part of something for 20 years. And for 15 of those years it was good and healthy. But the last 5 or so have been miserable. It will be a few more years before I put it all in its proper place and maybe see what (and why, maybe it happened) God wants me to do
with it all.

I wish we could take a walk together. Allow yourself to grieve. A huge part of your life as you once knew it is gone. Eventually, you will get to a point where you will see that part as a cancer that had to be cut out....but it cost you a body part.

Grace and Peace....

[peanut]

Good Morning Scooter!!!

Dear sweet soul..I'm so sorry you have experienced such extreme abuse. I will never understand people who say they believe, requiring others to adapt to their legalisms. I am no theologian but I do believe these people would be who Jesus was speaking of when he spoke of the Pharasies. I don't think anywhere in the Bible does it require us to raise our hands, demonstrate physical postures or say any specific words when we are filled with the Holy Spirit. Nor do I remember the Bible stating how much time should be spent in daily reading & prayer.

What I do remember is that He made you just as you are & knows every hair on your head. He made you in His image and you are called a child of God. He sent his son to earth in human form to live, teach and die a horrible physical death on the cross for you. He raised up His son so that you will have everlasting life. Have no doubt, you are good enough just as you are.

Sorry, I didn't mean to go off .....I just can't stand it when christians cause others harm. I'm so glad you are on the road to recovery and beginning to approach God again. For me too, returning to church was hard and some days its still hard and I just can't go. You asked for stories. A lot of the stories are archived in the threads. You can search back & read them. Mine, posted a month or so ago was titled It's A Long Story. Your welcom to read it. It continues to amaze me how common the themes are that run through all the stories. What a blessing that God has lead us to this place where we can share, hear other stories, learn from each other & be safe.

Have a good day & be kind to yourself.
Love,
Peanut

[Scooter]

I appreciate the encouragemen, exmember. After reading one of your posts, I was sorry to hear how hurtful it was to have something you loved ripped away.

Toward my old pastor I have a lot of mixed feelings. I'm livid, frustrated...and at the same time I think he honestly believes he's serving as a pastor in the way God wants him to. He never attended seminary. He's not an extremely educated person. He only went to high school. I think he does live under fear - fear that people will leave the church and he will be held accountable for their souls.

See, when people left my old church, you never realized it until they simply stopped coming one day. No one knew why. No one made an announcement. But one thing was certain - leaving that church was tantamount to renouncing God. If a person left, it was simply assumed that they no longer loved or wanted God and that they had lost their salvation. Once I was away at college, I knew I couldn't stand to go back to that place; but I was deathly afraid that I was putting my soul in mortal danger.

I know now that those teachings aren't true. I've received treatment for the depression and the eating disorder, which are both very well under control. Now I'm trying to go back to what the Bible says, not someone's interpretation of it (as you pointed out). I'm trying to give myself time and room to heal and learn and rebuild a relationship with God where I feel safe. Sometimes I feel so ignorant...I didn't know how to study the Bible, and I knew nothing about the differences in denominations or theological/doctrinal perspectives. But I want to learn. And sometimes I want to give my old pastor a tongue-lashing.

PCA...what do they believe about pre-destination and eternal security?

[newlife]

Hi Scooter!

Well, I read your story and it really saddens me what you went through...to have to grow up in that environment. I grew up in a legalistic Pentecostal church where the women weren't supposed to:

1. Cut their hair
2. Wear pants
3. Wear make-up
4. Wear earrings--"earbobs", as the pastor called them (though the strange thing was, they were allowed to wear other jewelry...go figure...:rolleyes: )

The other "rules" were:
1. Don't drink
2. Don't smoke
3. Don't go to dances
4. Don't go to movies
5. Don't get divorced
6. And if you didn't obey rule #5, don't EVEN think about getting remarried! :eek:

But I got caught up in the emotionalism of the services and I enjoyed them. Now the only reason why we went to this church in the first place was with the hope that my dad would go with us. He knew the pastor from when he was a teenager and he told my mom (who was from a more lenient denomination that didn't have all the legalistic rules about women) that that was the church he would go to if he went to church. Well, my dad would only go on Easter Sundays and he'd leave before the altar call! I used to cry and cry for my dad's salvation. My mom, being a rather independent person, never obeyed the "rules for women"...she always cut her hair, wore pants, wore make-up, and earrings! (I'm sure that all the other people saw my mother as a "Jezabel"!!!) I remember when I was in junior high, I talked my mom into letting my hair grow long. (She had always kept it short when I was little.) But my mom would always tell me that I looked better with short hair. After battling her for 3 years about my hair, I finally decided to cut it. So, when I came into church with short hair, my pastor's wife, who was my Sunday School teacher and I really respected, took one look at me and said, "You got your glory cut off!!!" I responded, "I did it to obey my mother...aren't I supposed to be obedient to my parents?" Well, she dropped it...but I'm sure it gave them another reason to be judgmental toward my mother..."now she's leading her daughter to sin too!" So, that church set the foundation for the rest of my life so far...

I went to college and pretty much dropped out of church during those years...got caught up in "worldly activities" at a "party school". But in my senior year, feeling very convicted about my lifestyle and thinking about Jesus' love for me that he died on the cross for my sins, I rededicated my life to the Lord.

Right before I graduated from college, I told my mom that I wanted to change churches...find one that had more teaching...the pastor at the Pentecostal church just basically stirred up people's emotions, talked about the rapture, and preached on the above listed "rules". My mom was also ready to change churches. So she went to a rather large Assembly of God church, which she really liked. After I graduated (I moved back home due to finances :) ), I also started to go there and I liked it too. They didn't have the "rules for women" there! I was amazed that Christian women were actually allowed to "cut their hair, wear make-up, pants, and earrings" and not be shamed for it!!! :D Also, this was in 1979 and "Contemporary Christian music" was getting its start. I loved Amy Grant's music especially! (The Pentecostal church that I grew up in was strictly Southern Gospel, which I liked okay...but OH, Contemporary Christian music...much more my "style"!) I met my husband there, we were married there and attended for 10 years. But we felt like something was lacking.

(This is where we really began to get off-track.) We started to go to a small non-denominational church and attended there for 4 years. While we were there, we had some friends in the Vineyard, so they were telling us about the things that they were learning there. We'd get together and the wife would show us videos from conferences that they went to. The big thing was the "Prophetic"...everybody was prophesying in those days. (Still are, actually) While we were at this church, we would occasionally have joint services with another church. We were impressed by their enthusiaism in praise and worship. Eventually we were drawn to this "church"...WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!!! We should have seen it coming, but we were impressed by the image that they projected. We attended some special services that they were having with another minister who was affiliated at the time with this "pastor". The "pastor" called us up to "get a word" from the visiting minister and said to us, "Now, Pastor *** and I have not talked about your situation. He doesn't know anything about you, so anything that he says is from the Lord." Do I hear anyone say "GULLIABLE"??? We believed him!!! And he said, "...God is transplanting you now and placing you by the river and your roots are going to go down deep and this is where you're supposed to stay!" So...this was the beginning of our journey into the depths of hell within a full-blown authoritarian cult. We were there for 10 years...stayed because we believed that "prophecy"! Many times when I wanted to leave, I would pull out the tape of the "prophecy" and listen to it to remind myself that that was where "God wanted us to stay". My two older children had to grow up for 10 years in this situation. That is my biggest regret...

The other day I started a thread "Post Charismatic" which has a link to it http://www.robbymac.org/charismatic/. Rob McAlpine wrote this lengthy project about the Pentecostal/Charismatic/Third Wave movements. Everything that Rob wrote about has been my spiritual journey: Latter Rain/Manifested Sons of God Movement, Word Faith (Prosperity), Prophetic Movement, Shepherding Movement, Authority & Covering.

I could write all day telling you my story! But this is already quite a lengthy message, so I'll stop for now. I have told bits and pieces of my story here on the forum and I have found that to be healing for me...to share things as they come to mind.

Love, newlife

[Scooter]

Thanks for letting me in on your story. I'm still looking through the archives and trying to learn about people here. I'm going to check out that Post-Charismatic web site too.

Besides the fact that leaving my old church was considered backsliding, people in the church (and my dad on a couple of occasions) used this reasoning: "Why would you want to leave a place where you know the Holy Spirit is? God put you in this place, and you should stay where God puts you." The question is loaded, and the statement doesn't consider that God might lead people elsewhere. Of course, this is all based in the attitude that my old church was the only one (at least in our area) that was faithful and correct. It was as though other Christians were okay, but our church had a special blessing.

WARNING - Some of these might be triggering.

As far as rules go - I never realized how many there were until I left. Even now, I'm discovering things that I thought were wrong, just because of that place.
Here are some:

1. Alcohol is wrong
2. Smoking is wrong, but it's not as wrong as alcohol
3. Divorce is wrong
4. Women can't wear pants in church
5. Women can't wear sleeveless shirts in church
6. No food is allowed in church (I used to wonder about gum and peppermints)
7. Going to the movies is wrong
8. Looking in commentaries to check what the pastor is saying is wrong
9. Talking to other people before the church service is wrong. You should be concentrating on God.
10. Telling other people that you disagree with the pastor is wrong (i.e., causing dissension).
11. No one can wear jeans in church
12. Missing a church service is wrong
13. Men can't have facial hair if they sing in the choir
14. For any Sunday School or Junior Church teachers: Obtaining any teaching material of your own is wrong
15. Listening to secular music is wrong
16. Listening to Christian music that sounds like secular music is wrong

How are you supposed to know any differently when you're a kid?

[newlife]

Scooter,

You're absolutely right...kids (and adults for that matter) believe what they're taught. Your list of rules is pretty close to the list of rules at the cult that we were in. However, people were allowed to wear jeans, but definitely no low-riders! Midriffs had to be covered. (That was directed to the youth girls mostly, most adult women don't want to show their midriffs! :D) And if there was an event that included swimming, such as youth camp or a church camping trip, all females had to wear board shorts over their swimming suits (which of course were one piece suits). And shorts were allowed (not in church, of course), but they had to be knee length. We were all glad when capris came out! :D Before capris came out, the girls would buy their shorts in the boys' dept. because boys shorts were longer than girls shorts!

Oh, and believe it or not, divorce was quite acceptable at the cult. In fact, I know of at least one married couple that the "pastor" strongly pressured the wife to divorce her husband because the husband didn't agree with the "pastor". She did end up divorcing him. The "pastor" would say that nothing should get in our way with our relationship with God (i.e. our involvement in the cult and being obedient to the "pastor"), including our spouses.

Men's facial hair was acceptable because the "pastor" liked growing facial hair himself. Same thing about going to movies (same reason...the "pastor" liked going to movies himself). However, if he didn't think a movie was appropriate, he would preach against it. I remember a lot of people went to see the first two "Lord of the Rings" movies. But before the third one came out, he started preaching about how evil "Lord of the Rings" was because it had a wizard in it. So no one (not even the LotR enthuisists) went to see the third movie. We didn't see it until after we left the cult.

Chewing gum was not permitted while the "pastor" was preaching because he didn't like looking at a bunch of people who looked like they were cows chewing their cud! Some people started bringing water bottles into services (our services were sometimes around 3 hours long, with praise and worship usually being around an hour long!) and he said, "no water bottles!" However, he had a glass of water at the pulpit! (and he did allow the P&W team to have water too). But if you slipped out of service to get a drink of water or go to the restroom, many times he would point you out! :eek:

It's really all about control!

"Why would you want to leave a place where you know the Holy Spirit is? God put you in this place, and you should stay where God puts you." The question is loaded, and the statement doesn't consider that God might lead people elsewhere. Of course, this is all based in the attitude that my old church was the only one (at least in our area) that was faithful and correct. It was as though other Christians were okay, but our church had a special blessing.

That same statement and attitude was also at the cult that we were in...

love, newlife

[yeshua'smags]

My story is under "Abuse In Methodism" , and patly in Peanut's and jimsmuse's.

We didn't have the same legalism as newlife, it was more subtle. We had elitism, racism, sexism, criticism, jerkism.....did I miss one?:D

[Willow]

Hi Scooter... sorry it took me so long to read your story. I just had to have a little space and time to think and write out my story in reply.

I went through a series of disappointments and abuses ranging from denominational to non-denominational. Bits and pieces of my story have been shared over the years at this forum. The early stuff was lost in the transition to the new forum format. I'll try to recoup in outline form.

When I was 6 we moved into a neighborhood where there was a pentecostal lady doing outreaches to children and a pedophile. I met both of them and both were damaging to me. The pentecostal lady was gentle and kind, but her message was damning and frightening to my young mind. It resulted in actions such as letting other children beat me up... sleeping with all my teddy bears thinking the rapture could come any night and my parents would be left behind and I would be all alone... praying under my breath while walking thinking the devil could snatch my soul. The pedophile lived next door and his activities with me caused further confusion as guilt and sin were added to the equation. Eventually... after giving my heart to Jesus many times over my childhood years... I became rebellious in my teenage years. This leads to part two.

At age 20 I moved with my parents to a new state. In my insecurity, I hooked up with a campus cult. I didn't know it was a cult... but it was a christian-based cult where they controlled every aspect of your life. I spent 4 years with the cult. Part of the time in training, and on evangelism teams where several of the members of my team had nervous breakdowns. I may have been one of them when I look back on some of my emotional turmoil. I finally left the cult and came home only to eventually land in a similar ministry that was a little less extreme. This eventually led in my leaving to help start a church in another state. I spent 10 years there and finally burned out after year 7. I went through some very intense times of detangling and finally moved to where I live now. I got a job working for a well known denominational headquarters and found the same dynamics in place as were in place in my cult. The people were used and abused. I only lasted 6 mos. there before they asked me to leave. Fortunately, I found a temp job that led to a permanent job at a local university. I was initially afraid to work there because I considered them secular humanists and thought I would be corrupted. To my surprise they were gentle and kind and helped me get back on my feet in more ways than one.

This has all left me unwilling to attend church anymore. I've searched for alternative ways to express and develop my spirituality. Some have been successful, others have not. One difficulty I've had is the addictive behavior that led me into the groups seems to haunt me continually. If it's not work addiction, it's alcohol. If it's not alcohol it's some other set of obsessions. I've sought professional help for this problem and medication has helped somewhat. I still struggle... that's why I'm here.

Nice to meet you!

Willow aka Amy