New Here

[Scooter]

Hi, there. I just joined the forum. I'm learning the ropes because I've never used a forum or a thread or anything. How do things usually go in here?

[yeshua'smags]

Hi Scooter!! I'm glad you are here!:p

You do whatever makes you feel comfortable! Post when you feel like responding, and start a new thought whenever you feel led. You can tell us your story, or not. Whatever makes you comfortable.:D

:rolleyes: Just ignore the "rule" posters. Legalism is quite insipid, it's a hard habit to break.;)


:D **Mags breaks into the Chicago song**:D

[Voyager]

Whassup Scooter? Welcome to the club. It's pretty laid-back around here. We just all share our highs, lows, and in-betweens with each other without any religious rules or expectations. The forum is all about helping each other heal from the wounds that were inflicted by spiritual abuse and hardline religious fundamentalism.

Glad you're here!

:cool:

[newlife]

Hi Scooter!

Welcome to the forum! We're glad to have you here!

As Yeshua'smags said, do whatever makes you feel comfortable...

If you'd like, just check the place out first by reading, or go ahead and jump right in with your comments! It's totally up to you! This place is filled with some really great people who are very understanding.


Oh, and just a little helpful tip about a technical aspect of the forum that I didn't know how to do when I first got on: If you'd like to quote someone else's post, you just click on the little box in the bottom right corner "quote" of the post that you'd like to quote and it'll quote the person's post for you! It's a handy little feature!

Again, welcome!!!

Love, newlife

[yeshua'smags]

Oh yeah! And these little deals: ((((((insert name)))))))
It means you are sending them a hug. Took me forever to figure that one out! I thought it meant we were yelling!:D

[jimsmuse]

:D H-a-a-r-d Habit -to- Br-r-e-a-aa-K ( are you using a wooden spoon for a microphone again mags?) :D

Hi Scooter,

Glad you're here, it's a great place to be! Make yourself at home. ;)

[Scooter]

Wow! Thanks for the warm welcome. :) I was trying to figure out how to post a response when I realized I'd been automatically logged out somehow. A summary of why I'm here - for 17 years I grew up in an independent, non-denominational church. The wife was the head pastor, and her husband was the associate pastor. I stopped attending completely about 4 years ago, but have been wrestling with the emotional and spiritual wounds left behind. Particularly by the male pastor who assumed all responsibility when his wife passed away.

[yeshua'smags]

:D Actually I was using my thumb. My spoon is in the dishwasher,:D

[peanut]

Hi Scooter!

Welcome & man are you in the right place! Healing from church wounds is what we're all about. Everyone is in their own spot on the recovery ladder but we are all trying to help each other.

Sorry your experience has left you hurt. Wow, four years is a long time. What have you learned?,,,,,,(Whenever you're ready). My experience is only eight months young so I'm interested in the road ahead. But mostly we are here for you too. Let us know what we can do to lighten your load.

Glad you are here.

Hugs,
Peanut

[Scooter]

What have I learned? Hmm...first I learned how much of what I was told was wrong. Then I learned how much misguided teachings (and teachers) hurt me. After that, with the help of a Christian counselor, I slowly realized that what I experienced constituted emotional abuse. Oddly enough, I wasn't struck dead when I admitted that! ;) Then I encountered the idea of spiritual abuse and began to understand that my fear of God and desire to run from him isn't psycho. Now I'm learning to trust my new pastor and look into Scripture for answers about who God is and, therefore, who I am. The reason it took four years is because of how severely I was affected and because I was in college with no consistent "home" church base. For a while, I couldn't even bear to go to church, I still felt so horrible.

[yeshua'smags]

:) Geez, I'm really sorry! That is a crappy time to have your head messed with! What made you start trusting enough to return to church at all?:)

[Scooter]

I think a few things got me to the point where I could start trusting going back to church...
1. a lot of counseling
2. my very supportive husband
3. being super blessed to have a husband who attends a church that's dripping with grace
4. time

[exmember]

I still battle with that aching feeling every Sunday morning. NOT wanting to go to church, but wanting to go to church....going to church but keeping myself fairly well guarded. Our faith is so personal, it is very difficult not to be hurt personally and feel very rejected for who you are at your very core when it comes to church disappointments...especially if inflicted by those you trusted and by those whom are supposed to be trusted by virtue of their position and education. I am learning after 15 months to separate God from Christianity. The 2 are not always the same. It takes time. I still have dreams about the people who hurt me. It goes deep. But take heart, I have overcome the world! (That would be Jesus speaking, not me!)

[peanut]

How astute of you to get help!!!!!

I know what you mean, not dying when you acknowledge spiritual abuse. Amazing how freeing and frightening when the realization happens. Honestly for me it's only been just a few weeks since the severity of my experience has hit home.

Oh well, when reality hits it sometimes hurts but I have found it extremely freeing. My wish for you is that your journey is freeing for you too!!

Peace & God Bless,
Peanut

[yeshua'smags]

You are exactly right, exmember, Christianity and God are NOT always the same. God is the relationship, Christianity is the religion. The relationship is far more important!!;)

[Scooter]

Thanks, Peanut. I really hope that you find peace and rest in the middle of uncovering past hurts.

Wow! I'm not the only one who has bad dreams about my old church?

[yeshua'smags]

Heck no you're not alone! I had dreams that our former preacher was hiding my kids somewhere in the church and wouldn't tell me where they were. He just stood there smiling.:mad:

[Scooter]

Oh, that's an awful dream! I had a dream where my old pastor cornered me in the ladies' restroom and tickled me even though I begged him to stop. He just kept laughing at me and saying, "What? You can't take a little joke?"

[yeshua'smags]

OOOOhhhhhh...that's so frightening! I have heard of a lot of people having the Satan laughing/abusers laughing feeling/dream. Seems to be a running theme.

[Scooter]

So has anyone else ever felt the need to confront your spiritual abuser? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be healthy for me, and maybe it's not even supposed to be necessary for healing. It just feels so unfinished. My parents are in that church, my grandparents, aunt and uncle, people I grew up with through childhood. Except for my parents and grandmother, they have no idea why I left.

[yeshua'smags]

Yes! We confronted him a lot! But his insipid little wife, and her minions ( the Sorority), made sure to make us out to be the ones with the problems. It turned into character assasinations, and we about had the villagers with torches and pitchforks coming after us. :D ;)

My husband is in your same situation with his family, they are still there. They think we are crazy for leaving and believe all of the awful things they are told about us. :eek:

[peanut]

AHHHHHH - confronting your abuser!!!!! So frustrating for me but liberating to a degree because I got to have my say.

It happened several weeks before we officially left. At the time, I was Chairman of Ministries and had been asked to chair the Council (a new body that would hopefully be a vehicle for discerning God's will for our church, leading the body toward that will and maximizing ministries while minimizing ego involvement and money manipulation) for whatever term I would accept. I felt that there were significant problems in the church and felt very strongly that the pastor was not only not addressing them but irritating the situation by ignoring them. His inability or lace of desire to shepherd was causing people who had been very involved to question their involvement. Some had even said to me "I don't think he likes me."

I spoke honestly and carefully trying to offer him an opportunity to discuss the issues. He took on the posture of being beaten. He slumped in his chair, hung his head and refused to communicate. I became agitated with his refusal to interact and threw caution to the wind. I told him everything.... and pretty much laid at his feet how I felt he was letting the church down. He had often spoken of people "spewing" on him and would dismiss them as being unsatisfyable. At some point I realized he felt this way about this encounter but I kept going. I was not going to stop having gone that far already. I got it all out. When I was finished, he thanked me, we prayed and hugged.

Two weeks later, we had an opportunity to speak again. I asked him what his thoughts were regarding our previous meeting & he said he had had no thoughts.
I couldn't believe it. I had spilled my guts to this man and he never gave it another thought? He went on to say that he didn't realize he had anything to think about. At that point, I realized the situation was in fact hopeless and I knew I had done all that I could. Following that encounter, there was one last one with he and my husband and then a final meeting when I resigned and informed him our family was leaving the church. But they are for another thread.

So, my conclusion? For me that final meeting proved to me it was over and I had to get my family and myself away from that unhealthy place. It has been hard. We have been hurt and are hurting but I know that we did all we could do.

Sorry, Long answer to your question. Not only did I think about it -----I DID IT!!!!!

Peace.,
Peanut

[exmember]

Yes, my husband and I confronted our then pastor. It was not pretty, but necessary. Take a witness. Do not go alone ever. Do not fall for these very common lines: You are gossiping. You did not follow Matthew 18. (Did they? Why is it they can backstab, betray, teach incorrectly, etc and they are NEVER gossiping or have a need to follow Matthew 18. Guess that's a perk of official status!;) )

[SpinningHead]

Hi Scooter!

Welcome, I still have page 1 of this thread to read but wanted to say HI and ask...what exactly does a church dripping with grace look like? Sounds real nice to me.

Although hubby and I have visited a couple churches, I can't bring myself to think about attending one on a regular basis. I got issues. :( We all do. :rolleyes:

Glad you're here! You're most welcome!

[Scooter]

Hi, spinninghead. I guess a church dripping with grace is one where the pastor is a humble, real, and sensitive person who always points to God's love and kindness. He's never been judgmental toward me or my struggles with church and God. I'm not super involved in the church, and I'm sure there are the usual disagreements and quibbles. But I really learn from this pastor, and he leads the congregation by trusting in the power of God's love to motivate us. Pretty revolutionary for a 2000 year old idea, huh?

I think I relate to not being able to go to church consistently. Some weeks I would feel fine. Then for weeks or months on end I would crumble at the thought of battling through a church service. And I wouldn't go. It took a long time for me to not feel horrible guilt for not going to church. My old pastor was extremely inflexible about missing services - or choir practice, even. Unless we were deathly ill or on vacation, missing a service meant God wasn't important to us...therefore we didn't love God...therefore our hearts were in the wrong place and we should repent and rededicate ourselves to Jesus.

[mary]

Re: a couple of things -

On dreams:
My "former pastor" - the one who sexually harassed me for three years - is a very short man. About 5'1". But I'm five inches shorter, the only adult in the congregation shorter than he. He threw me out of the church on Oct. 18, 2005. Lately I've been having dreams that I'm innocently walking around in a certain mall around here that I frequent and is only about 3 miles from his home. I walk around a corner - and he pops out of a trash receptacle, saying, "I could take you down!" (a verbatim, frequent threat of his against me). Then everywhere I go in the mall, I turn - and there he is. A terrifying thing. I pray not to have these dreams anymore.

On confrontation:
My husband and I did confront "pastor" regarding something physical he did to me in front of my husband. "Pastor" went ballistic and told my husband that he had a right to do that ("This is a church, not a corporation. Sexual harassment policies don't apply here..." yada, yada, yada.) He was on the verge of a literal fistfight with my husband. Most of you don't have that degree of insanity to deal with in proposed confrontations with your pastor, and I can see where a confrontation would bring closure, possibly (miraculously, maybe) reconciliation and a measure of peace, if everyone present has all their marbles, so to speak. Such wasn't the case in our circumstances.

A hearty welcome :) :) :) to Scooter, Exmember, and all new fellowshippers here!!!

In His love,

mary

[Scooter]

Oh, yikes, mary! What a horrible thing to go through! It seems that a theme in all my dreams - and in yours as well - is that we are powerless while the person who abused is all-powerful. Do you think it's our mind's way of painting a picture of feeling helpless against someone who seems to carry spiritual authority?

I can't believe your pastor would violate you in that way.

If I ever do meet with my old pastor, I wouldn't be expecting reconciliation. I'd hope and pray that reconciliation could happen, but my only aim would be to close that door in my life. Trying to talk to him often brings only sarcasm, questioning your commitment to God, and invalidation. One thing's for sure - if I go to talk with him, I'm definitely not going by myself!

[yeshua'smags]

Oh my gosh Mary! I am so sorry! Who do these people think they are that they can just blow up like that?!

Our pastor jumped up in one of our friend's faces when she defended my sister, (my sister was the youth and children's minister.)

I never got to confront him after I was really mad. I'm quite sure, however that I most likely could have been able to push him to physical violence. I have that little yippy dog biting your ankles way about me. :D I still have days where I'd like to storm his office and tell him exactly what I think! But he really isn't worth my time. He and his big ugly wife are going to burn themselves, I just have to give it time!

Sorry, I said they weren't worth my time, not that I couldn't still get myself all riled up about it.:D :D :D

[Voyager]

My first question to you would be, are you willing to lose the relationships with your family members who still attend the church? Most of the time when you confront abusers like this guy, they will turn everyone in the church against you - even your family members.

I'm not saying it's wrong to confront the abuser at all. I'm just saying that there will be a price to pay.

:cool:

[Voyager]

Here's something that I posted on this forum about six months ago in reply to someone who made the following statement:

You said: "I feel like now that I know it is my duty to get them out."

I felt the same way you do. I wanted to help my former church members. I sent them letters on the symptoms of cults and controlling groups. I sent books on spiritual abuse anonymously. I was already blacklisted, so it didn't matter. My name was already ruined because I had escaped the church and "left God's will". I pleaded with people to leave the church. I started an online forum for the escapees of the church that eventually had over 100 members. I even got together with a few former members (an older couple) and we put fliers about the symptoms of cults on cars parked at the church during a Sunday morning service. I was told that the church called the police and tried to get me arrested for "harassment", but it never happened. It took a few years, but eventually over 450 members escaped the church due to the abuse and the pastor was terminated. The church has since dwindled to just 50 members.

Would I recommend this to anyone else? Not unless you have very thick skin. Did it do any good? Yes, it did. Many former church members credited me for exposing the abuse and getting the abusive pastor terminated for embezzlement of church funds among other charges. Would I do it again? Yes. Is it hazardous to your mental health? Probably, but it was also very vindicating.

You also asked: "How do you cope?"

I cope by frequenting this forum and educating myself on spiritual abuse.

You also asked: "How do I move on?"

In my opinion, you don't "move on" from it. You just go through it, and eventually you get to the other side. It's a journey that takes time. The only way to "move on" would be to go back and erase the abuse that you experienced. But since you cannot do that, you just go through it. We'll go through it with you.

What I did in exposing my former pastor's abuse is not the norm. For most people, it's probably more healthy to leave and get as far away from the group as you can. One thing is for sure, it would be a waste of time to try to get the pastor to stop abusing. I have never heard of this happening. Most of the time, the people in the church will support the abusive pastor and reject anyone who comes against him/her as a demonized heretic.

When I first began exposing my former pastor's abuse, I did it anonymously. People probably figured it was me, but they didn't know for sure. When I heard that the pastor had labelled me "insane" from the pulpit, I really went on the offensive. I wrote the editor of the local paper, and I even posted an ad in the paper that advertised the website forum I had developed that exposed the abusive pastor. The website ended up becoming the talk of the town, and half the city of 16,000 ended up visiting it. Once the members of the church starting seeing the abuse for what it was and felt like they were embarrassed to be involved in the church, they started bailing out family by family.

Is it best for anyone to do what I did ? I highly doubt it. For most people, it is probably best to get away from the abuse and start a new life. I was very bullheaded and I took on a lot of grief, expenses, and added rejection due to my actions. Most people would not want to deal with that, and I don't blame them. There is a big price to pay if you decide to try to expose the abuse. The pastor will try to destroy your credibility, and you may never win the battle that I won. It's a very big risk.

:cool:

[Scooter]

That's a good point about a price to pay. My parents still attend the church, but I know my mom doesn't agree with it. She chooses to stay because my dad would never leave. I suspect that he disagrees with things, but when we ask him, he'll never articulate them (my older sister also left the church).

There's a chance he might say something about me from the pulpit, but nothing more than he may have already said. The worst I can imagine him saying is that I've turned my back on God and am a sinner. I'm already pretty much out of those people's lives, except for close family.

He's not doing anything illegal, so he has nothing to hide. I think he really has no idea of the impact his words and actions have on me and others. That's what I wish I could tell him, so that he'll stop. I don't know whether there are still people in that church who are struggling as I was. One of the awful things was that we hardly ever talked to anyone in the congregation unless it was in church, and never about more than superficial topics. Even if current members' experiences aren't as severe as mine, I feel so sorry that they don't hear about God's love and grace, and that they don't learn from the sermons. All the messages revolved around the same point.

I might sound deluded, but I think he has good intentions (which don't make up for the harm he causes). He's still scary, intimidating, hurtful, misguided, and emotionally/spiritually abusive though.

[yeshua'smags]

Voyager is exactlly right, they will or will try to turn everyone against you. My husband's parents are still at our old church and they are doing their best to make us out to be the bad guys. The thing that really sucks is that they are falling for it.

[Willow]

Welcome Scooter :)

[Scooter]

Thank you, Willow. Good to be here.:)