Attending vs. Membership

[SpinningHead]

In general, what is the point of becoming a member of a church vs. just regular attending?

When I re-read my old membership info, I saw a lot of things that I had to agree with (lucky for them we did agree - not that they lived up to them but that was another post. ;) ) But I didn't see where being a member gave me benefits/priveleges that a regular attendee didn't have. So what was the point?

What's the point of being a member of a church, when there's not a proper place and time for your voice to be heard?

Our once a year membership meetings were a freak show! They only gave certain successful ministries approx. 2 minutes to give praise reports (nothing negative). They had some special singer from far away come "bless us" with her song - she sang something like 4 songs throughout the night. They had a pair of really supportive parents of the youth come and be honored for all their support/contributions...New Life, can you say "love bombed"? And they had a couple other "love bombs" dropped. They announced when our organists (grandma raising her grandchildren on fixed income) boiler blew in winter, our "community fund" bought her a new one.... all "ain't we serving" stuff.

But never once talked about issues that needed addressing!
Never gave the members an opportunity to voice concerns!
It was all about what they dictated reporting and there wasn't room for anything else.

There was no point!

And occassionaly, (once in my 5 years of being there) if district demanded the congregation vote on something, then we did...the last one was my hubby presenting to the congregation the new worship center and giving his testimony of how the Lord was leading him in the design and materials. The congregation just embraced him and blessed him and asked the right questions - to which they were given answers and of course, now none of those answers were the truth! :eek: That meeting took place November of 2003...yup, that was the last membership.

Now, I get that I'm out of there. But I'm still wondering...for the future if I ever feel comfortable in going back to a church (it's not out of the question)...

What's the point of pursuing "membership of a church"? vs. regularly attending and participating in whatever class/ministry.

What's the benefits?
Why would I pursue that?

[newlife]

Well, the benefit should be that you do get to vote...but you pointed out how at your last church that it was really just a farce. Like you, I've been to some interesting church business meetings! :rolleyes:

At our former "church"/cult, we would vote on things occasionally, however, the "pastor" had already made the decision, so the vote was always just a formality. I remember one time a lady had an issue with the "pastor's" brother, who the "pastor" was putting in as a deacon. When she brought up the issue, she was attacked for unforgiveness and being offended. She was promptly "put in her place" for raising the issue. Then we voted, and of course he was voted in. Her concerns were not addressed, other than to say that we needed to forgive him. (And the "pastor's" brother is a whole other story that I won't go into! :mad: )

At our new church, which we did join, and since we've been there, we had a board member who had to be replaced because he took a job out-of-state and was therefore moving away. So we got to vote on that. Then, of course, we got to vote on the pastoral candidate. I did like the fact that I had a voice in that decision. (Also, board members are a limited term...two years I think, but we haven't been there long enough for any terms to expire...I think they do it on a rotating schedule, kind of like the Senate, so that there are always some "veteran" board members to help the "rookies" learn the ropes of being a board member. At the cult, once you were put in the position of "elder" or "deacon", you could only be removed by the "pastor"...which of course he used to keep them under his control.)

We joined our current church shortly after we came there from the cult "church"...I guess because I felt that it was the "thing to do". But I also know that I'm not obligated to stay just because I'm a member. Would I join another church vs. just attending? Most likely "No". My parents attend our church but they have never joined. The only benefit that they don't receive is the opportunity to vote...other than that, there's no difference. My mother has been "in church" my entire life, but I don't think that she ever actually became a "member" of any of the churches that she's attended.

I guess I look at church membership the same as voter registration! :D :D :D

(And I must say that I'm often disappointed in that process as well! :D )

love, newlife

[SpinningHead]

I hear what you're saying...but I have issues with that (well, I have issues anyways! :rolleyes: - and I'm NOT saying I have issues with you, just the point that your brought up :) )

How is it Biblical that we have to become church members, sign forms so we can vote on issues?

Funny you said that about voting people into positions...While I was at our church, they replaced a youth pastor and associate pastor. While we could voice our concerns and meet them at "get to know your pastor's luncheon". The bottom line was, the board voted (and close knit group!) and we were just told of the decisions. Our concerns did not register (but how can you tell if you have concerns when you only meet them at a pot luck, and who's not putting their best foot forward at a pot luck??).

ALSO, at times when we did vote positions by ballot - which is a joke because hardly anyone was nominated to run against well established positions like head trustee (I think that guy is on his 15th year???), the ballots were handed out to everyone in the church! Members, attendees...it didn't matter.

So what was the point?? (and that's pertaining to my own experience, not in general)

One interesting thing I noticed in some researching "memberships"...most memberships include a clause that you are allowing yourself to come under discipline if they deem it so. :eek: Shall I start another thread????

[Katie]

Membership is so that you have the "privilege" of tithing and volunteering (wasting) your time serving (working) at the church every night of the week under the "anointed leader" who you submit to let boss you around and run your life.

[yeshua'smags]

I thiink of it more as a promise, or commitment on both sides.

You promise to be an active part of the family, help out, give, make suggestions etc. They promise to listen, pray for you, feed you, etc.

Not that those things can't happen if you're just an attender, it's just a covenant in a way.

If the covenant is broken, then you remove your membership, and find somewhere else.

Does that make sense? My brain is foggy this morning.:D

[newlife]

Biblical...no...that's why I'll probably never do it again! :D

I know what you mean about the "get to know the pastoral candidate" potluck (which we did have, BTW). I felt like even with meeting them for the weekend, I still don't really know them. (Like you said, who wouldn't be putting their best foot forward in that situation? It's kind of like a first date! ;) ) Though I came away from the weekend feeling very good about the whole thing, since then I've been doing A LOT of second-guessing. They are coming from another state, so after the weekend, they flew back to their current home to pack, put their house on the market, and get everything in order to move here. Their first "official" Sunday will be June 11. So, I got the new pastor's email address from my bro-in-law (he's a board member) and on Saturday I wrote him a very lengthy email pouring my heart out to him...I was prompted by the "post-charismatic" project. On Monday he sent me a very thoughtful response, which was quite encouraging to me. At this point, all I can say is I'll just have to wait and see how things go once he gets here. As my husband said, we don't have to stay there if things don't work out.


One interesting thing I noticed in some researching "memberships"...most memberships include a clause that you are allowing yourself to come under discipline if they deem it so.

I'll have to check that out to see if we have such a clause...that's an interesting point that you've brought up...

love, newlife

[yeshua'smags]

Yeah, that can be a scary clause! I guess if we decide to be members anywhere again we have to be prayerfully sure it is a place that will not abuse that commitment/clause. That should be nice and easy huh? <<<<massive sarcasm, look away!!>>

[tke316]

In general, what is the point of becoming a member of a church vs. just regular attending?

That's how they get your name, address, names and ages of children so you can be put into the database for the mailings. :rolleyes:

Yesterday I got a letter that my son's grade/class tradtionally hosted the graduation Mass luncheon. My son hasn't set foot in that church since about 2004 when he dropped out of confirmation. I haven't set foot in that church for about 15 months. ;)

It isn't like the staff doesn't know. I email back and forth to them and talk to them on the phone almost every week. :rolleyes:

You can run but you can't hide. :eek:

[newlife]

I guess the one reason why I view our current church as healthy is because there really is freedom there. Even though I'm a member, I don't feel pressured to participate unless I want to. They have opportunities for involvement, of course, but if all you do is go on Sundays, that's fine too. There are people at all levels--even members. The only difference that I see there between members and attendees is the voting privilege.

It wasn't that way at the cult "church"! At the cult "church" it was exactly as Katie described! :mad: You were expected to be there for any event, not limited to church services, but also church fundraising events (which in the summer that was a weekly all-day Saturday youth car wash--weather permitting, of course...and yes, adults were also supposed to participate "to support the youth"), "community outreaches", building cleanings/projects, "church" camping trips...even those who didn't like to camp and the elderly were expected to be there! And if you weren't there, you would be "rebuked" from the pulpit BY NAME! :mad: Oh, and tithing!!! Yeah...my husband was a deacon, and the "pastor" told me one time..."I will not have any elders or deacons who don't tithe!" Besides, tithing was always a weekly "illustration"...he talked about it so much that I would often question my husband, "Who is NOT tithing that he has to CONSTANTLY bring it up???"

Since we've been at our current church (a year and a half), I never once heard our pastor (the one who moved away) preach on tithing...that was a breath of fresh air to me to put that subject to rest! :D Though they do believe in tithes and offerings, the decision about giving is left up to the individuals. In fact, there was a board member before we came who my sister said that his wife was very open about being "anti-tithing", and he was a board member. So, tithing is not a requirement at all at our current church, even for board members.

[Doug64]

Often they get your name and address under the guise of 'taking attandance.'
That's how we got on a mailing list.

At the last church we visited (Easter Sunday), tithing was brought up. They did say visitors were not expected to put anything in the offering plate. :)

We didn't have to sign anything to be members of the group we left, but we were expected to be loyal in all aspects, never question the leadership. There was no voting. The Pastor General was in for life and so was the 'board' unless removed by the PG.

Doug

[SpinningHead]

So then, why do these church pursue us to become members?

They get:
my obedience
my money
my time

I get:
farse voting privileges?

Why would anyone want to "join a church"?

social status?
self-importance?

I'm reading this and I can't see how it's not coming across sarcastically (as I've been accused of before :rolleyes: ) but I'm really being honest in my question...

IF you were to counter-ask, "why would anyone join anything?" I'm thinking benefits.

[Doug64]

I think you are correct.

Like joining this forum. There are benefits such as insight into how others have been treated, how they are going about recovery, how we are different and how we are the same.

Doug

[Janice]

I was reluctant to view this thread because I have had real "issues" with the membership thing.

For years, I guess I wanted to become a member of my church to feel like I "belonged".

Hubby is a member and a deacon, but I am not allowed to become a member because I smoke cigarettes. :eek:

But, the closer I get to God, He is helping me realize that I am already a member of HIS church so, being a member of mine is not important.

Sure, I could let this issue "eat me away" like I have in the past., but the Lord has helped me through once again ;) ......and I can honestly say I don't even believe I can talk about this now without 'going over the edge."

I used to walk around with such a heavy heart, frustration, aggravation, bitterness, and resentment because of the fact that I couldn't become a member.

But not anymore.

God is good and He DOES heal ALL wounds!

It's just in His time, not mine. :)

[jane]

What's the point of being a member of a church, when there's not a proper place and time for your voice to be heard?


not much point in being a regular attender nor a visitor either if that's the cause.



jane

[jimsmuse]

((((Janice))))))

You are a member of God's "church", you are a part of us!!! You are a member we cannot do without! I am so very tired of human beings telling other human beings who will be accepted and who won't.

That time is OVER. The true Shepherd leads us on...........

love always,

marcy

[jane]

One interesting thing I noticed in some researching "memberships"...most memberships include a clause that you are allowing yourself to come under discipline if they deem it so. Shall I start another thread????


yeah?

well that church can bite me because they would see only my back side as I walk out their doors after reading that crap!

My parents disciplined me so that I could grow up and be an adult. That is just mind control tactics!

[SpinningHead]

I was reluctant to view this thread because I have had real "issues" with the membership thing.

For years, I guess I wanted to become a member of my church to feel like I "belonged".

Hubby is a member and a deacon, but I am not allowed to become a member because I smoke cigarettes. :eek:

But, the closer I get to God, He is helping me realize that I am already a member of HIS church so, being a member of mine is not important.

Sure, I could let this issue "eat me away" like I have in the past., but the Lord has helped me through once again ;) ......and I can honestly say I don't even believe I can talk about this now without 'going over the edge."

I used to walk around with such a heavy heart, frustration, aggravation, bitterness, and resentment because of the fact that I couldn't become a member.

But not anymore.

God is good and He DOES heal ALL wounds!

It's just in His time, not mine. :)

I'm glad you did and I'm glad you posted. :)

I've been thinking that these church memberships do more to isolate Christians more than bring them closer together... which, is why I brought it up. These churches who isolate a person for not measuring up is abuse! Especially when it's over legalism and not Biblical principles.

One issue I had when I joined our church was the rules stated we could not drink alcohol. But we are wine enthusiasts! What's a gal to do? So we asked about it in "membership class" and we were told conflicting things...a) it's just a guideline and b) Jesus turned water in grape juice (Welsh's apparently :rolleyes: ) and not wine. And c) we have to make a choice about what's more important, wine? or being a member of God's church. Of course, considering hubby was in with the "inner circle" at the time being the architect, we were made members. Later on we heard stories of how strict they had been with others in the past (and even after us!) that if the folks admitted to having a drink now and then, no membership for them. As hubby said afterwards, "lucky us."

One time I was asked what I would do if someone from the church saw me coming from the wine store. I didn't get where they were going so I said, "I'd wave! Go over, say "hello", show them what I bought, tell them what we're eating with the wine...if it's a weekend maybe invite them over..." :confused: At the time I didn't get the person was trying to shame me or bring me under conviction. I think about it now and giggle.

Janice, I'm glad you posted. :)

[yeshua'smags]

:D :D ****applauding loudly!!!!****:D :D


WWooooo HHoooooo!!!! GREAT ANSWER!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


"I'd wave...." , Stop it! You're killing me!!:D :D :D :D :D

[peanut]

What a great thread!.....Lots of good stuff happening ......Lots of points to ponder..

One of the blessings resulting from our families departure from our old church has been an undertanding for me anyway how much of my idrentity was wrapped up in being a MEMBER. In the last eight months I have had the opportunity to listen to what God is saying to me. Instead of meetings, prayer & meditation are much better for the soul especially if the meetings are not God centered. I now understand the relationship is with my Father. Not the preacher, not the kitchen patrol & not the hurtful, self-centered. I understand now being a member of God's church is the important, valuable membership. Fortunately, for now we have found a place to hear a message that offers us time in the word and an opportunity to celebrate our relationship with Jesus. We are listening to where God will have us be and what he wants us to do. This is a daily quest and although he is not showing us a road map, we are getting guidance. Praise God!!!

I am all for attending, joining with other christians to spread his Word, experience His love and share His love. I guess I'm saying, membership in a local organization is not important. Membership in an organization that dictates, rules by rules, and makes a habit of condemning is not where any of us should be. That membership is ripe for abuse.

We are members of God's church.. YES!!! I have found this forum and the people that participate such a blessing. Thank you. This is a safe place to speak.

Love,
Peanut

[newlife]

In the last eight months I have had the opportunity to listen to what God is saying to me. Instead of meetings, prayer & meditation are much better for the soul especially if the meetings are not God centered. I now understand the relationship is with my Father. Not the preacher, not the kitchen patrol & not the hurtful, self-centered. I understand now being a member of God's church is the important, valuable membership. Fortunately, for now we have found a place to hear a message that offers us time in the word and an opportunity to celebrate our relationship with Jesus. We are listening to where God will have us be and what he wants us to do. This is a daily quest and although he is not showing us a road map, we are getting guidance. Praise God!!!

I am all for attending, joining with other christians to spread his Word, experience His love and share His love. I guess I'm saying, membership in a local organization is not important. Membership in an organization that dictates, rules by rules, and makes a habit of condemning is not where any of us should be. That membership is ripe for abuse.

We are members of God's church.. YES!!! I have found this forum and the people that participate such a blessing. Thank you. This is a safe place to speak.

Love,
Peanut

All true...I agree with you 100%!!!!

love, newlife

[newlife]

One time I was asked what I would do if someone from the church saw me coming from the wine store. I didn't get where they were going so I said, "I'd wave! Go over, say "hello", show them what I bought, tell them what we're eating with the wine...if it's a weekend maybe invite them over..." :confused: At the time I didn't get the person was trying to shame me or bring me under conviction. I think about it now and giggle.



I love it too!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Newlife and yeshua'smags dissolve into a giggling spell, as the sourpuss religious person who asked SpinningHead the above question, stops, looks at us, and says, "Would you like to tell the rest of the class what is so funny???"
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Love, newlife

[yeshua'smags]

:D ***yeshua'smags vigorously raises her hand***:D


"I do, I do! I want to tell the class what is so funny!!"

And I'd use "colorful" language!:D:p


:D :D***newlife is lauging hysterically at her friend's audacity***:D :D

[newlife]

:D ***yeshua'smags vigorously raises her hand***:D


"I do, I do! I want to tell the class what is so funny!!"

And I'd use "colorful" language!:D:p


:D :D***newlife is lauging hysterically at her friend's audacity***:D :D


I AM!!! I AM!!! :D :D :D :D

[tke316]

And then there is the view from the "other side"...

In many churches there are a suprisingly high percentage of "members" we only see for baptism, first communion, confirmation, graduation, "marry and bury." :p

Folks show up for the first time in 10 years and act like they own the church. "It's my wedding." :eek: Because they got baptized here they think we should re-arrange everything because they want everything a certain way for their wedding, and we know we won't see them again until they want their first-born baptized. Not a cent will go in the collection plate. :o

[tke316]

...what I would do if someone from the church saw me coming from the wine store.

I don't know how many frequented the wine store of the people in the church I just left, but I think half the congregation owned the "WHINE" store.:D

[yeshua'smags]

Hahahahahahahahahaha!! I'm dying!:D

:p Better post a "humor warning" Spinsy!!!:D :D

[Willow]

One time I was asked what I would do if someone from the church saw me coming from the wine store. I didn't get where they were going so I said, "I'd wave! Go over, say "hello", show them what I bought, tell them what we're eating with the wine...if it's a weekend maybe invite them over..." :confused: At the time I didn't get the person was trying to shame me or bring me under conviction. I think about it now and giggle.


Now... this is cute. I have been accused of being very hard to handle in church because of stuff I just "didn't get". I'm unforgiveably and uncontrollably my own person. God made me that way. When the talons of control finally did break through my hard skull... they were in there for good. But until I "get it" I am a frustration to controlling types. What's so funny... is that I do it innocently and color outside the lines. At least that's what I've been told. I really don't know I'm breaking the unspoken rules until someone tells me... then they aren't unspoken rules anymore and people realize how ridiculous the rule really sounds when spoken. Know what I mean?

[SpinningHead]

I have a beautiful print/story art I bought at a local art show. It's of a woman on a hill under a blue sky and sun. Her back is to me but she is looking so far up I can see her face...her arm are stretched up towards the sky. She is wearing a coat of many colors...

Around the sun it says...

"It took a long time to assemlbe the fabric of her life, but when she was finished her message was clear"

in the middle of her coat it says...

"I have come to live out loud".

I cried when I first saw it. I had to have it...it embodied everything my heart soared for...it went against everything my mother ingrained in me (be quiet! keep the peace at all prices! never have an opinion around others! etc...)


I have come to live out loud!