Post-Charismatic

[newlife]

On Friday, there was a link that was posted on another thread about being "post charismatic", a term that before Friday I had never even heard before and now I recognize that it is exactly what I am! (It's so nice to be defined! :D )

Here is the definition: Post-Charismatic

This phrase should not to be confused with being NON-charismatic, and certainly not as being ANTI-charismatic. The process of separating what is truly of the Holy Spirit and what is needless -- and often harmful -- baggage is the whole idea behind developing a post-charismatic understanding of how a supernatural God works supernaturally amongst and through the mystical gathering called the Body. In other words, post-charismatic, but not post-Spirit.

Anyway, if this fits where you may be in your spiritual journey and would like to read more, I thought I'd repost the link here: http://www.robbymac.org/charismatic/. It is quite lengthy...more like a book than an article...so I printed it out and I'm still reading it. But he has pretty much described my entire spiritual journey! It has been very affirming to me and has helped give me some enlightenment...and I just wanted to pass it on to anyone else who might be interested.

Love, newlife

[Voyager]

The process of separating what is truly of the Holy Spirit and what is needless -- and often harmful -- baggage is the whole idea behind developing a post-charismatic understanding of how a supernatural God works supernaturally amongst and through the mystical gathering called the Body.

I agree. To keep myself from going insane, I had to throw out the entire Charismania doctrine. For several years after leaving my former abusive church I tried to believe in parts of it while sorting out the parts that seemed to fuel the abuse at my former church, but I was unable to do so. It was driving me crazy.

Do I believe in the Gifts of the Spirit? To be honest with you, I will not even allow myself to answer that question. If God wants to prove something to me, He is well capable of doing so. I no longer have the motivation to figure it out. Did God put a picture of the Virgin Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich? Did God send Hurricane Katrina to punish the gays in Louisiana? Are we supposed to speak in tongues on a daily basis? Are we supposed to have Apostles in the here-and-now? All of these questions are way too deep for me. They tie my brain in knots when I try to figure them all out.

Here's my new doctrine: Jesus died to save sinners, of which I am one. That's as deep as my religion goes anymore - period. This has resulted in a tremendous relief on my mind and emotions. I no longer have to figure out the God-stuff - I leave it to God to figure out.

:cool:

[newlife]

To keep myself from going insane, I had to throw out the entire Charismania doctrine. For several years I tried to believe in parts of it while sorting out the parts that seemed to fuel the abuse at my former church, but I was unable to do so. It was driving me crazy.

Do I believe in the Gifts of the Spirit? To be honest with you, I will not even allow myself to answer that question. If God wants to prove something to me, He is well capable of doing so. I no longer have the motivation to figure it out. Did God put a picture of the Virgin Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich? Did God send Hurricane Katrina to punish the gays in Louisiana? Are we supposed to speak in tongues on a daily basis? Are we supposed to have Apostles in the here-and-now? All of these questions are way too deep for me. They tie my brain in knots when I try to figure them all out.

Here's my new doctrine: Jesus died to save sinners, of which I am one. That's as deep as my religion goes anymore - period. This has resulted in a tremendous relief on my mind and emotions. I no longer have to figure out the God-stuff - I leave it to God to figure out.

:cool:


Dear Voyager,

I perfectly understand where you're coming from...I, too, don't try any longer to figure these things out either. Your doctrine is pretty much my doctrine as well: Jesus died to save sinners, of which I am one, period.

But I really liked what Rob McAlpine has to say...it really "hit the spot" with me...he does address all of the abuses and hurts caused by the charismatic movement. Like I said, I found his writing to be very affirming to me and I just thought that others might enjoy it as well...

As is often stated around here, take what works and leave the rest...

Hope you have a good day,
newlife

[dougjb]

On Friday, there was a link that was posted on another thread about being "post charismatic", a term that before Friday I had never even heard before and now I recognize that it is exactly what I am! (It's so nice to be defined! :D )

Here is the definition: Post-Charismatic

This phrase should not to be confused with being NON-charismatic, and certainly not as being ANTI-charismatic. The process of separating what is truly of the Holy Spirit and what is needless -- and often harmful -- baggage is the whole idea behind developing a post-charismatic understanding of how a supernatural God works supernaturally amongst and through the mystical gathering called the Body. In other words, post-charismatic, but not post-Spirit.

Anyway, if this fits where you may be in your spiritual journey and would like to read more, I thought I'd repost the link here: http://www.robbymac.org/charismatic/. It is quite lengthy...more like a book than an article...so I printed it out and I'm still reading it. But he has pretty much described my entire spiritual journey! It has been very affirming to me and has helped give me some enlightenment...and I just wanted to pass it on to anyone else who might be interested.

Love, newlife

[dougjb]

Hi
this is DougJb, i hope this is Gwen. i have been looking for those who have realized that what is projeced as the work of the Holy Spirit but is in realitiy false.
dougjb

[Willow]

Hi Doug,

I've noticed a lot of emotionalism passed off as holy spirit activity in my church experiences. I guess you could call me post-charismatic. Although... I noticed it while I was still in the charismatic church and passed it off as human error or people being "in the flesh". I never took it too seriously, but now realize how badly it confuses people and can lead them off to ruin.

[Katie]

Hi newlife.

I consider rob mcalpine an online friend of mine. Having been through his own situations of spiritual abuse, I find him to be a voice that I trust.

My husband and I both found his postcharimatic project extremely helpful in sorting through some of the background and history of things we had experienced.

[Illuminated]

This phrase should not to be confused with being NON-charismatic, and certainly not as being ANTI-charismatic. In other words, post-charismatic, but not post-Spirit.Since discovering that site a while ago, I have been trying to think of another name for those of us who fit this category.... a name that doesn't have the word Charistmatic in it...

I thought of spirit-filled, but that word is already around... and then spirit-led, but all Christians are supposed to be that. Anyway, I can't think of a good term to describe us!!:o

[newlife]

Hi newlife.

I consider rob mcalpine an online friend of mine. Having been through his own situations of spiritual abuse, I find him to be a voice that I trust.

My husband and I both found his postcharimatic project extremely helpful in sorting through some of the background and history of things we had experienced.


I'm glad to have found rob mcalpine now myself too. I am still reading through his extensive project, but everything that I've read so far just resonates within me...as I'm reading, I just keep thinking, "YES! YES! YES!" I've experienced everything that he wrote about, and I agree with his assessment 100%! I'm also very impressed with his writing style...he presents the facts accurately without coming across as a judgmental.

Like you, reading his writing is helping me to sort through the things that I've experienced as well.

newlife

[Carmen]

Guess I'm post-Charismatic/post-Pentecostal too. I still believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but am pretty nitpicky about it. I try to sift scripture for the true meaning, had to chuck everything out I believed before, used to hunt for Charismatic activities to attend to get that good and addictive feeling which everybody said was the Holy Spirit, but wasn't.

I don't look for overwhelming feelings anymore or presences, just God himself without the frills, they distract me too much anyway. I prefer songs with more meaning and less "I need you, I praise you" stuff. If there is a way to be Charismatic and still scriptural, I think that the line is so fine that I'd rather not risk it at all.

I strongly criticize the weaknesses I see in the Pentecostal/Charismatic Renewal movements, which could be the same as being anti-Charismatic. Ok, people can do what they want, but I have been there and done that and found it to be more harmful than helpful, not to mention that I think that such ideas come from skewing scripture.

This is what I think happened to me while I was in the middle of that mess, I wasn't really looking for God, but was trying to satisfy myself, I was selfish. A quote says it for me, "...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on." Winston Churchill. I finally realized the mess I was in, like the prodigal son, and got out of it.

That is just my two cents. If it offends, I'm sorry, just ignore it.

[newlife]

Carmen,

Have you had a chance to look at Rob's site? I think that you might find it interesting.

By the way, I got the book "Apocalypse Observed" from the library yesterday. If you remember, I requested my library to purchase it and they approved the request. They finally got it in. Anyway, I started to read it a little bit last night. I also picked up "Soul Survivor" by Phillip Yancey...so I've got a lot of reading to do! :D (Besides I'm still reading the material from robbymac's site that I printed up!) Looks like I'm going to be busy for awhile!

newlife

[jimsmuse]

Oh Yes! Post-Charismatic by Rob McAlpine blew me away. I agree with Newlife it gives words and "titles" to stuff that I really needed to identify!

It helps to know in dealing with the very many types of abuse.:(

Everyone who has been hurt by charismatic/pentecostal, prosperity, etc,etc, need to read it. It set my husband free from a lot of things because he gives it a name!

Thank you, Newlife for bringing this very important work to our attention!

Love, marcy

[Carmen]

Carmen,

Have you had a chance to look at Rob's site? I think that you might find it interesting.

By the way, I got the book "Apocalypse Observed" from the library yesterday. If you remember, I requested my library to purchase it and they approved the request. They finally got it in. Anyway, I started to read it a little bit last night. I also picked up "Soul Survivor" by Phillip Yancey...so I've got a lot of reading to do! :D (Besides I'm still reading the material from robbymac's site that I printed up!) Looks like I'm going to be busy for awhile!

newlife

I did see Rob's site. It is extensive and very informative. I was mixed up in some of that stuff from almost the time I became Christian, only got out of it entirely about four years ago, and have been researching it ever since. I know a lot of what he wrote, and learned a bit too. I'll be recommending his site too.

There are some doctrinal dangers in the neo-evangelical sector too, of which Yancey is a part. Evangelicals and Neo-Evangelicals have been influenced by Pentecostal/Charismatic ideology in some negative ways. Just keep your eyes open.

[newlife]

Just keep your eyes open.


I will...thanks for the "heads-up"...

newlife