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hornblower
05-08-2006, 08:27 AM
very triggering


This happened years ago and I would very much like some feedback on it as to what you all think about what happened to me.
.

So anyway God showed me to go to to this church Shady Grove. Then he also showed me to teach there, the little kindergarten, and he also showed the principal the same thing so he hired me out of about twenty more qualified people than I was.


At this same time I was told by the church staff elders pastor and such that I should begin to give these visions to the church body. So after a year or so, a lot had happened I dont know but for me anyway pressure began to mount.
I was talking to others about this feeling. Like nothing there was real it didnt seem to me. These few friends more than agreed with me but its all so hush hush.
One other teacher told me that he and his wife had even been to the pastor about it and he told me that it was anti feminism or submission teaching. This was all so hush hush.

One of the other teachers who was so beyond popular, just like the most handsome young man and beyond exemplary in every way and also the principals best friend.

To them I was like so stupid. It also bothered me that in the morning school prayers that this teacher ran he often went off on a tangent about the massive sin in the world how awful it all was?????????????????

I would say well we would be right there if it werent for Jesus, we are sinners too! But as always none of the other women would say a word and it was like I had committed some kind of crime or something. All of this and plus my children being in this school was making me nervous. I had to keep my job or they couldnt go there, I was loosing my peace big time.

So then this same young very popular young teacher began to teach a class on submission for women to their husbands.

(Now I had been trying so hard to do this with my husband and things had gotten so bad during that that he told me to STOP doing this submission stuff! For me this was my answer............about all of that submission stuff.........God does it through me and thats the end of that!

So now during lunch time for the teachers and in the hall and all over the place Im hearing this young man say "Women DONT want to submit to their husbands!" Over and over he would say this it was very upsetting to me that he believed this. Because I did, I want too and I still want to do anything to make my marriage better...like duh............?????????
Im telling you he would be just walking down the hall and he would say this right out loud. It didnt have anything to do with anything just Him espousing this thing!

It was wearing on my nerves like everything was. One day in the prayer room after school I asked all of them to pray for me as I was begijnning to get so anxious about my husband not attending church with me and this submission teaching being what it is and me getting up and telling my vioisions it was all too much for me and I didnt understand it???????? Please pray for my family and myself to have peace. You could have heard a pin drop.......................
then in walks this young male teacher and out of his mouth comes this thing he kept saying.............women dont want to submit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The men in the room sat there grinning like this was an act of God!

On the way home my anger grew and grew and grew. It was so huge! I could hear God telling me get rid of it dont do anything just let it go but I wouldnt. The next morning there he was with me and three other women and there we were having to listen to him again.............I exploded! I thrashed him out for what he said to me when I was so desperate about my own family how dare he say this that women dont want to submit when Ive tried so very hard to do everything for my husband and HOW WOULD HE KNOW WHAT A WOMAN FEELS ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!

Oh my gosh. It felt so good to get rid of all of that fierce anger...............he was shocked to say the least and when I finished ranting he told me...........he never heard me asking for prayer or anything that day.............when I realised he was just walking around saying that thing agaion and that he didnt even hear me ask for prayer I right away repented..............Oh Im so sorry............oh my please forgive me I was wrong to take all of this frustration out on you.........terrible mistake it wont ever happen again................so sorry..........but oh bless your heart you have helped me so much becuase I feel so much better this must have been something I needed to do please forgive me though.
He did and foolish me I thought that was the end of it.

I was called in to the principals office to tell him what had happend. He told me Steve the mans name was very upset. Im sure but hell get over it once he understands. Everybody was walking around like something hoirrible was about to happen but not me I felt as free as a bird.
when I went home that night and got in the tub I heard the HS say to me you are going to be disciplined. Fear enveloped me.................
I had no idea what that meant.
The next day the principal called me to him and told me that in the afternoon I was going to be disciplined I said yes I know God told me................
He told me I was to read the scripture to all of the staff that a woman must submit to her husband..................
I froze..............why? I asked? He said this is Steves retribution. I asked what are you talking about? He said this is whats done when someone sins and they must pay for the sin that they did to the offended party.

Funny how joy can be turned into absolute fear and misery for years and years. I was under a male teacher at the time that was beyond cruel to mostly the children. He was the teacher and miserable being one, I was the aid doing most of his work as far as teaching was concerned.
The unmittigated joy he had when he saw with me totally embarassed like that. Other women even just grinned and shook their heads at me wagging you know what I mean.
I had two friends but they dare not say a word.
This was my job it meant my children going to their school what could I do?
To be in a room with mostly men and having to use Gods word and say that brought back years of sexaul abuse to me.
I cried for days, but this other man was so full of joy, he said the next morning we all have what we want the cross thats what its all about. He even called my husband while I was crying at home I dont know what they said to each other. I was forever shamed.
I lost my job of course. Then the next job I got they sent awful reports to my next employer also a church. As if I was not a good employee.

My whole life at the time were the children and their hearts. That same year a student committed suicide. A child was lost after school. Many other things. When I left I went to say good bye to the pastor and he asked me............whats going on in that school????????
I didnt tell him.........he had also let me down so many times I knew better. Like the change your visions thing. Yeah right! He told me he knew I was right (this was another matter at the church service that had happened to me) and he knew it that my vision was from God he knew that my minstry was right but he had an obligation to the congregation as a Father....................
of course he was never a Father for me in any kind of way so????????

Ive never told anyone this outside of my councelor because of the massive shame of it all. I did tell my employer so she could understand why they said these things about me in their employment reports.
Ive basically hidden it said its gone and all of that but heres the thing............

My visions are gone................I want them back. Im trying to understand it.
Of course I never pray for anyone either any more. I deeply love people and want to help them. Most of my visions were about that. They were used to help people know how much God loved them and wasnt a condeming God but a compassionate loving Father Friend. It was always encouraging stuff.
Just like Jesus is.
How much of this is tied up with going to a church?
Is God mad at me am I letting Him down?
Was this thing right what they did to me?
How much you want to bet they are all doing much better than I am?

I am dealing with all of this this morning I would appreciate any help you can give me? This is what the board says to do is to post what happend to see if it is abuse.
Ive to my knowledge never brought it up to anyone before. I dont know maybe I did long ago.
The way things are right now after reading the blog that Carmen had a link too in her post to my husband we are never going to organised church again I dont even think it is real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!any more.
My husband has never wanted to go back after what happened to our daughter. I think secretly he hates the charismatic churches. Really though he knows the other ones are just down right boring..........?????
I dont know what the deal with him..........I know he believes but it bothers me that he never reads the bible at all.
I feel like Ive failed as a wife for him if its submission that is a real issue.
I cant do it anyway...............whatever it is???????????:eek:

hornblower
05-08-2006, 08:32 AM
I know this post below is like way beyond long. Im so sorry. I had to cut it back a lot too so I hope it still makes some kind of sense.

I sure do hope Im not too much of a drain on any of you..........I really do feel like Im beginning to be able to get through some of this stuff by coming here and I cant thank all of you enough you just dont know how good it feels to be able to be with people again even if it is internet............
these last six years have been so lonely for me not much outside activity at all.......Im not regretting taking care of my parents and leaving that church one bit but you know its lonely for me being such a people person like I am.:o

Theodora
05-08-2006, 08:37 AM
I'm working on some other "stuff" right now--see my post just now in re Mother's Day in which I was, in part, responding to you (Thread at http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?p=29932#post29932) so I won't stop to read this right now. HOWEVER, since we seem to be on-line at the same time, I just thought I'd acknowledge having seen this, and to commend you for continuing to work on your issues here. Know that I will try to get back to this "soon!"

More as able.

Glad you had a better day yesterday! Keep up the good work!

Much love and many prayers--

Theodora



I know this post below is like way beyond long. Im so sorry. I had to cut it back a lot too so I hope it still makes some kind of sense.

I sure do hope Im not too much of a drain on any of you..........I really do feel like Im beginning to be able to get through some of this stuff by coming here and I cant thank all of you enough you just dont know how good it feels to be able to be with people again even if it is internet............
these last six years have been so lonely for me not much outside activity at all.......Im not regretting taking care of my parents and leaving that church one bit but you know its lonely for me being such a people person like I am.:o

SpinningHead
05-08-2006, 08:58 AM
((((((((HORNBLOWER)))))))))))


This was abuse! What they did was abusive! They twisted that Scripture and attempted to shame you with it! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Queen Vashti completely defied her husband...THE KING!! Where would we be if she submitted, paraded naked and we never had Queen Esther to save the Jews of her day??? ok, that may have been a bit off, I just love that Queen Vashti did not do what was wrong despite the consequences...

I don't see it being much different in our day! Woman have a responsibility to what they are submitting to! And if these "christian" husbands want their wives to be submissive, they better shape up and get with God's program! These so-called "christian" husbands/men who are so eager to preach "submission" but don't preach the rest of what goes with submission are on an ego-power trip!!

:mad: :mad:

I know you warned that your post was triggering...I grew up w/ that "submission" crap and it caused my mother and myself as a child a serious amount of pain! :mad: We had to endure a whole amount of emotional abuse because "submission" equated "doormat" and "being responsbile for another person's happiness, comfort and over-all good jollies!". :mad: :mad: :mad:

Bottom Line....it was abuse! :mad:

Theodora
05-08-2006, 06:29 PM
The day got away from me with misc. things and I've not been able to read your post yet. Know that you have NOT been forgotten and that I really will try to respond "soon"---or at least "sooner than later!"

Hope you have a good night tonight.

Love and prayers--

Theodora


I'm working on some other "stuff" right now--see my post just now in re Mother's Day in which I was, in part, responding to you (Thread at http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?p=29932#post29932) so I won't stop to read this right now. HOWEVER, since we seem to be on-line at the same time, I just thought I'd acknowledge having seen this, and to commend you for continuing to work on your issues here. Know that I will try to get back to this "soon!"

More as able.

Glad you had a better day yesterday! Keep up the good work!

Much love and many prayers--

Theodora

aftermath
05-08-2006, 08:11 PM
hello, I spared one minute to read the post and I'll spare another minute responding. And I wont waste a minute explaining how I'm busy.

Yeah that's abuse. There are tonnes of people out there completely insensitive to others. They think they can parade their ego's around using a biblical scipture as back drop, not caring where they are flinging their dirt and who it is hitting. You know though, if you have received what you felt is punishment there is no doubt what-so-ever that the dude is going to/or has, received his.

God said he will take avengence for his children.
Rather then assume the guy went on to flaunt his good looks and pompous desires elsewhere, trust God diciplined that lamb.

Theodora
05-09-2006, 06:25 AM
very triggering

Hi Hornblower---

I'm going to try to read/comment as I go by interspersing your message with my thoughts. Hope this works! (As you may remember, my computer skills have been learned as I go...and I'm not always the best person to try to use the technology to advantage.)

In any case---THANKS so very much for your consideration in letting us know that this post might be triggering and was long. For both of those reasons, as well as your request for feedback, which I did want to honor, I was not able to post a reply to this yesterday as I had hoped. I trust you understand.

You said:

This happened years ago and I would very much like some feedback on it as to what you all think about what happened to me.

I was wondering, first of all, what might have brought this to mind right now so that you were wanting to deal with this here? If it's appropriate to share that....perhaps your message includes that.

Reading on....


So anyway God showed me to go to to this church Shady Grove. Then he also showed me to teach there, the little kindergarten, and he also showed the principal the same thing so he hired me out of about twenty more qualified people than I was.

So it's evident that you felt you had a very strong calling to be there and that that was confirmed by the fact that more qualified people than you were considered but not hired?


At this same time I was told by the church staff elders pastor and such that I should begin to give these visions to the church body.

What "visions?" I confess I don't quite understand and this kind of thing is outside my experience---or, at least, having one's gifts in this area validated in such a way by the church staff!


So after a year or so, a lot had happened I dont know but for me anyway pressure began to mount.
I was talking to others about this feeling. Like nothing there was real it didnt seem to me. These few friends more than agreed with me but its all so hush hush.
One other teacher told me that he and his wife had even been to the pastor about it and he told me that it was anti feminism or submission teaching. This was all so hush hush.

??? Now I'm really out of my depth and don't quite get the overall picture...but perhaps you didn't either and that was part of the problem?

One of the other teachers who was so beyond popular, just like the most handsome young man and beyond exemplary in every way and also the principals best friend.

To them I was like so stupid.

??? Was this just a feeling you had or did they say something to you directly that made you feel that you didn't belong somehow?


It also bothered me that in the morning school prayers that this teacher ran he often went off on a tangent about the massive sin in the world how awful it all was?????????????????

I would say well we would be right there if it werent for Jesus, we are sinners too! But as always none of the other women would say a word and it was like I had committed some kind of crime or something. All of this and plus my children being in this school was making me nervous. I had to keep my job or they couldnt go there, I was loosing my peace big time.

Ummmm....well....just the fact that the women didn't say anything doesn't necessarily mean that they thought you were "wrong"---just that they didn't have the courage (or background) or whatever...to offer input. Perhaps??? Certainly, I see how this would put you in a dilemma of what to do/what to say since your personal and family situation was involved.

(Con't. in next post.)

Theodora
05-09-2006, 06:29 AM
(Continuation of interspersing Hornblower's message with my responses from previous post)--

So then this same young very popular young teacher began to teach a class on submission for women to their husbands.

(Now I had been trying so hard to do this with my husband and things had gotten so bad during that that he told me to STOP doing this submission stuff! For me this was my answer............about all of that submission stuff.........God does it through me and thats the end of that!

So now during lunch time for the teachers and in the hall and all over the place Im hearing this young man say "Women DONT want to submit to their husbands!" Over and over he would say this it was very upsetting to me that he believed this. Because I did, I want too and I still want to do anything to make my marriage better...like duh............?????????
Im telling you he would be just walking down the hall and he would say this right out loud. It didnt have anything to do with anything just Him espousing this thing!

Oh wow...((((Hornblower)))))-- My heart goes out to you. I'm guessing we might both want to write mini-"books" on this one!


It was wearing on my nerves like everything was. One day in the prayer room after school I asked all of them to pray for me as I was begijnning to get so anxious about my husband not attending church with me and this submission teaching being what it is and me getting up and telling my vioisions it was all too much for me and I didnt understand it???????? Please pray for my family and myself to have peace. You could have heard a pin drop.......................
then in walks this young male teacher and out of his mouth comes this thing he kept saying.............women dont want to submit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The men in the room sat there grinning like this was an act of God!

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh!!!! FWIW...at the very least, from my point of view your anger is justified!


On the way home my anger grew and grew and grew. It was so huge! I could hear God telling me get rid of it dont do anything just let it go but I wouldnt. The next morning there he was with me and three other women and there we were having to listen to him again.............I exploded! I thrashed him out for what he said to me when I was so desperate about my own family how dare he say this that women dont want to submit when Ive tried so very hard to do everything for my husband and HOW WOULD HE KNOW WHAT A WOMAN FEELS ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!

Oh my gosh. It felt so good to get rid of all of that fierce anger...............he was shocked to say the least and when I finished ranting he told me...........he never heard me asking for prayer or anything that day.............when I realised he was just walking around saying that thing agaion and that he didnt even hear me ask for prayer I right away repented..............Oh Im so sorry............oh my please forgive me I was wrong to take all of this frustration out on you.........terrible mistake it wont ever happen again................so sorry..........but oh bless your heart you have helped me so much becuase I feel so much better this must have been something I needed to do please forgive me though.
He did and foolish me I thought that was the end of it.

Well....sometimes things don't work out as we'd hoped....and you DID apologize.

I was called in to the principals office to tell him what had happend. He told me Steve the mans name was very upset. Im sure but hell get over it once he understands. Everybody was walking around like something hoirrible was about to happen but not me I felt as free as a bird.
when I went home that night and got in the tub I heard the HS say to me you are going to be disciplined. Fear enveloped me.................
I had no idea what that meant.
The next day the principal called me to him and told me that in the afternoon I was going to be disciplined I said yes I know God told me................
He told me I was to read the scripture to all of the staff that a woman must submit to her husband..................
I froze..............why? I asked? He said this is Steves retribution. I asked what are you talking about? He said this is whats done when someone sins and they must pay for the sin that they did to the offended party.

OOOoooooooooooooooooooooooops!!!! Nope..... Sort of strange doctrine here, from my point of view!!!!

Funny how joy can be turned into absolute fear and misery for years and years. I was under a male teacher at the time that was beyond cruel to mostly the children. He was the teacher and miserable being one, I was the aid doing most of his work as far as teaching was concerned.
The unmittigated joy he had when he saw with me totally embarassed like that. Other women even just grinned and shook their heads at me wagging you know what I mean.
I had two friends but they dare not say a word.
This was my job it meant my children going to their school what could I do?
To be in a room with mostly men and having to use Gods word and say that brought back years of sexaul abuse to me.
I cried for days, but this other man was so full of joy, he said the next morning we all have what we want the cross thats what its all about. He even called my husband while I was crying at home I dont know what they said to each other. I was forever shamed.
I lost my job of course. Then the next job I got they sent awful reports to my next employer also a church. As if I was not a good employee.

Oh (((((((HORNBLOWER))))))) --- How awful! And yes....this whole situation was allowed to go WAY out of control...and no...that was NOT your "fault."

My whole life at the time were the children and their hearts. That same year a student committed suicide. A child was lost after school. Many other things. When I left I went to say good bye to the pastor and he asked me............whats going on in that school????????
I didnt tell him.........he had also let me down so many times I knew better. Like the change your visions thing. Yeah right! He told me he knew I was right (this was another matter at the church service that had happened to me) and he knew it that my vision was from God he knew that my minstry was right but he had an obligation to the congregation as a Father....................
of course he was never a Father for me in any kind of way so????????

Much to think about here!!! Do know that I'll be keeping you in prayer!


Ive never told anyone this outside of my councelor because of the massive shame of it all. I did tell my employer so she could understand why they said these things about me in their employment reports.
Ive basically hidden it said its gone and all of that but heres the thing............

My visions are gone................I want them back. Im trying to understand it.
Of course I never pray for anyone either any more. I deeply love people and want to help them. Most of my visions were about that. They were used to help people know how much God loved them and wasnt a condeming God but a compassionate loving Father Friend. It was always encouraging stuff.
Just like Jesus is.

Ahhhhhhh......now I understand the reason for your sharing this now. Thanks for trusting us with this painful/poignant saga.


How much of this is tied up with going to a church?
Is God mad at me am I letting Him down?
Was this thing right what they did to me?
How much you want to bet they are all doing much better than I am?

Wow.......hey...dear sister in Christ---don't let yourself dwell on that aspect of God being "mad" at you! NO...I can't believe that, or any of the rest of it. NO...it was not right what they did to you!!!! NO, NO, NO!!!! :mad:


I am dealing with all of this this morning I would appreciate any help you can give me? This is what the board says to do is to post what happend to see if it is abuse.
Ive to my knowledge never brought it up to anyone before. I dont know maybe I did long ago.
The way things are right now after reading the blog that Carmen had a link too in her post to my husband we are never going to organised church again I dont even think it is real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!any more.
My husband has never wanted to go back after what happened to our daughter. I think secretly he hates the charismatic churches. Really though he knows the other ones are just down right boring..........?????
I dont know what the deal with him..........I know he believes but it bothers me that he never reads the bible at all.
I feel like Ive failed as a wife for him if its submission that is a real issue.
I cant do it anyway...............whatever it is???????????:eek:

Hang in there, dear one. Good for you for posting. No real "answers" here, but just a lot of heart-felt sympathy. You're doing a GOOD job of working through this experience and I am PROUD of you for being able to talk about it.

More as able. I love you.

Theodora

hornblower
05-09-2006, 10:59 AM
thankyou so much for your feedback. Its still for some reason hard for me to accept that it was abuse.
main thing happening here I wish and I know this is unreasonable that someone could just flat out tell me if God is mad at me about this?
If He isnt why are the gifts gone?

I know I should ask God. Why dont I anyway?
Well ok I have asked Him and either Im not wanting to hear Him reply or Hes not talking to me about it.
am I like just silly crazy?

am I imagining this that Jesus is here talking to me at times?
Hey its got to be real what happend to me, the saving part and other things too.
Its so hard now I question everything that happens when I used to have faith.
Ive been crying quite a bit yesterday and this morning. Just all sad stuff but Ill make it. I know ill get better. In fact Im wanting...........dont tell my husband............. to go get a job! But not just any old job either this time I want a good job or nothing! I deserve something good in my life for once!

Jerry
05-09-2006, 08:06 PM
The men in the room sat there grinning like this was an act of God!



Correction;,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Theres no men going to that church ;)

Love Jerry

hornblower
05-10-2006, 08:22 AM
thankyou Jerry that makes my heart feel stronger just hearing it. Im praying about all of this Ive kept it down in there for so long. iTs not hurting like huge like it used too after all its been what??????20 years ago?
time doesnt heal as much as Id like it too. what helped me more than anything at the time was getting the heck out of there! I think I was so happy exhausted when I was let go that I kind of just gave up and went into a fog of some kind. For years I was like that.
I stayed on my back in bed for almost 3 months with so much pain I couldnt walk at all. Ill never forget that. Huge trial. Just watching the cobwebs collect. My husband had to take over with everything.
During these times I was driving home from work one day and it occured to me to pray.........I thought to myself............my marriage and therefore my children and their happiness because they adore their Dad and I love him too even though he is bugger, or this church spirituality thing whatever it is????????? I wanted to always do what God wanted me to do of course but what is the right thing?

Is it right for a woman to go on and follow God when her husband could care less?
Well seemingly care less. I didnt really know what was right at the time my mind was so screwed up from all of the heartache at that church and at home. My husband went there once or twice. He went to counceling with the pastor and then he and the pastor babtised my son and himself and then my daughter was baptised another time.

I saw this pastor on tv not long ago well some years but like 3 or so years ago. I felt so sorry for him. They were trying to get money of course they always are trying too. He was with an idiot (in my book anyway).
I do believe his heart was in the right place in fact I think everyone there tried really hard to do the right thing.
Heres what I think went wrong. They put the law before compassion and understanding.
This is my take on church stuff.
We all need healing from duh our lives down here, our growing up our false teachings everything. Before we start making laws for everyoen to start following wqe need this healing in order to grow up properly ............otherwise we have no business doing duh business!
I can forgive them in that way of Father forgive them for they know not what they do.
BUT...........when you take a little child and damage it for years and years so that she cant even get up and walk or worship or think straight isnt there something wrong with that? To show you how dumb the whole thing was when I lost my job the principal said to me so I guess well be seeing your children next semester.

I looked at him and just stared...................thats why I was here was to place them in your loving perfect school................why do you think God sent me here? Because Im so wonderful and you are too? I wish I would have said that part about him ha.
He was dumb struck. I didnt know that he said. Well where were you when I told you that in the first place?
My children are out on a limb now I dont know what will happen with them?
The public schools in our area were filled with drugs and violence. Every kid on the block went to prison /committed suicide and was into drugs big time.
Im serious.
He just sat there stunned.
This is when my husband sent my kids back to that original place the church school where she was attacked years before. My daughter was about13 at the time. Then she started getting sick..............a straight A student. When she went to the high school there she got cheerleader
more abuse so bad I just cant tell you how bad it all was.
My daughter my poor sweet innocent childlike little daughter. Living like skid row stuff now trying so hard everyday to make it. Shes beyond anything I could ever imagine in suffering, no friends no nothing but us.
SHAME ON THESE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I could go on forever on this one subject.........my daughter. and here comes Mothers day like it always comes. I had my friend really give it to me yesterday for feeling sorry for myself.
I dont care I just do feel sorry for myself because I would give anything if my kid was some other way than the way she is.
To hell with this world Im going to try to spend the day with her. it might be the ultimate misery though.:( :mad: :( :mad: :( :mad: :( :mad: :( :eek:

Jerry
05-10-2006, 08:35 AM
John 11 vs 35