For Illuminated et al: "Spiritual Distress in Recovery"... [Archive]

Theodora

05-08-2006, 06:14 AM

...is a section heading in the book "Rooted in God's Love" by Dale and Juanita Ryan which is available on-line in the NACR bookstore, as well as in print.

From the introduction---

For many of us, our first reaction to times of spiritual distress is to assume that we are spiritual failures. Our faith is defective, we think. Good Christians aren't supposed to get angry at God. We have many ways of shaming ourselves for our spiritual distress.

But spiritual distress is not an indication of spiritual failure. Spiritual distress is more likely to be a sign that God is growing in us a new capacity for relationship with him. Times of distress are often the first steps toward spiritual healing and growth.

(As you probably know, this is kind of "continuing the conversation" we had begun re thinking about being "angry" at God at http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4236)

If interested, these meditations based on Biblical texts are available at http://www.nacronline.com/dox/library/meditate/m4_spdis.shtml

The index for the complete series, with "hotlinks" to the various texts, is

Biblical Meditations for People in Recovery

http://www.nacronline.com/dox/library/meditations.shtml

The book is available for purchase at http://www.nacronline.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1

+ + +

As it happens, the selected meditation from this book for today (which is available both on-line at http://www.nacronline.com/cgi/dailymed.cgi and by e-mail) was from this section.

Beginning excerpt:

A despairing man should have the devotion of his friends, even though he forsakes the fear of the Almighty.
Job 6:14

At some point during the recovery process we re-examine our most fundamental beliefs. A long process of sorting, examining and questioning takes place. And, in that process, our relationship with God is challenged. It is possible that our relationship with God will deepen and strengthen in the process. But it is also possible that we will find ourselves pulling away from God. We may find ourselves angry with God, or afraid of God, or unable to believe in God at all. This can be a frightening experience. It can feel like the very foundations of life are being shaken.

In times like this, we need many things. But at the top of the list is our need for friends who will accept us even if we turn away from God.

Looking forward to more "conversation with" you...and our developing friendship!

Thanks for your very thoughtful comments and honesty in your posts.

Grace and peace--

Theodora

Illuminated

05-08-2006, 11:50 AM

unable to believe in God at all. This can be a frightening experience. It can feel like the very foundations of life are being shaken. In times like this, we need many things. But at the top of the list is our need for friends who will accept us even if we turn away from God. This is not quite where I am at this point, but pretty close.

In the past year these are the things I have experienced in my attempt to serve the Lord:

1. rude and very hurtful treatment by other Christians on the mission field
2. reading lies about happenings on the mission field
3. experiencing neglect by my home church
4. reading the numerous examples of verbal/emotional/spiritual abuse that is taking place in the Christian world posted by other members of this forum
5. experiencing callous and snide remarks made by several users on this board
I am at the All For Naught stage now. I believe that Jesus died on the cross for no reason. His death was all for naught - all for nothing. His ressurrection did not make the world a better place. When we accept him as our saviour, we are promised eternity with him. That is good to know.

In the meantime, we are still living in a fallen, hurtful, hellish world. I don't understand how a god that is good could bestow such a cruel situation on us. He has given us a promise of a wonderful eternity with him preceded by hell on earth. To me, that kind of a promsie is cruel. It is like taunting us by telling us how perfect things will be in paradise with Jesus, but in the meantime, sorry, folks, you're gonna have to go through hell.

Supposedly the kingdom of god came to earth in the form of Jesus. Then, the holy spirit was sent to help us live on earth in the kingdom of god. If this is the kingdom of god now, then I want no part of it, holy spirit or not.

Theodora

05-08-2006, 12:46 PM

I'm sorry for your pain. Please keep posting as you can and again....trust the "process" of your questioning. I can understand your position, but a "dark night of the soul" can also be a beginning for deeper understanding....or so we've all been told! Thanks for your response.

More as able---

Theodora

This is not quite where I am at this point, but pretty close.

In the past year these are the things I have experienced in my attempt to serve the Lord:

1. rude and very hurtful treatment by other Christians on the mission field
2. reading lies about happenings on the mission field
3. experiencing neglect by my home church
4. reading the numerous examples of verbal/emotional/spiritual abuse that is taking place in the Christian world posted by other members of this forum
5. experiencing callous and snide remarks made by several users on this board
I am at the All For Naught stage now. I believe that Jesus died on the cross for no reason. His death was all for naught - all for nothing. His ressurrection did not make the world a better place. When we accept him as our saviour, we are promised eternity with him. That is good to know.

In the meantime, we are still living in a fallen, hurtful, hellish world. I don't understand how a god that is good could bestow such a cruel situation on us. He has given us a promise of a wonderful eternity with him preceded by hell on earth. To me, that kind of a promsie is cruel. It is like taunting us by telling us how perfect things will be in paradise with Jesus, but in the meantime, sorry, folks, you're gonna have to go through hell.

Supposedly the kingdom of god came to earth in the form of Jesus. Then, the holy spirit was sent to help us live on earth in the kingdom of god. If this is the kingdom of god now, then I want no part of it, holy spirit or not.

hornblower

05-08-2006, 01:59 PM

(((((((((((((Illuminated))))))))))))))))))))
I enjoyed what you wrote Illuminated. Believe it or not to me this is what is missing in the churches and also with most believers, is an ability to be honest about where we are at with God, with each other, with ourselves. I think Jesus came for just these values that you have demonstarted right here. Can we ask questions? Can we get answers? Do we want answers?

I am having so far a pretty good day today with the acception of having to clean up poop and so forth.

Now theres a question.
Poop, why did God make it? I will not say anything else except to say I read an interesting thing the other day in this harder than h book I am reading thats supposed to help me.

I wont quote it unless you are interested but basically it said that when we are children and we get abused its very hard to get out of our feelings. I rememnbered most of my childhood and decided this is very true. I did have a hard time and I am having a hard time doing just that.

Mainly because, this she didnt say, we arent heard when we try to tell someone about the abuse. Its the not being heard and the no justice that burns a hole inside of me so I stay right there sulking and crying 'over spilt milk' you might say.

We are here at this place to hear each other and hopefully to love each other whatever way we can.
I have no answers for you. I agree with you.
That is why with most of my heart and my willpower I do believe God did not make this world this way..............people did.
Jesus was God so He cant change what God did.............and God left this earth to people. People can believe what they want to believe do what they want to do and hurt us anytime they so choose and we can do the same.
The bible is pretty clear that any man that does not hate his own life is not worthy of the kingdom to come.

If you love this world you are no friend of Jesus because it was the world that killed Him. I hate to say it but its out to kill us too. Its almost done it to me several times by me getting so depressed about the worldand the people in it I would get decieved into thinking, as has already happend once again today, why am I even here I might as well not be!
God does love this place make no mistake about it He told me so in a very profound way one time. He made it and us and He loves what He created.
Yes its His fault for making us this way.

He gave us choices.....choices to make every second of everyday. One of those is to trust Him. I dont even know how to be honest with you. Not having too much to trust in with people.

All I can say is I do love you. I dont know you but I really do like the way you express yourself. When you say anything at all it feels like my heart speaking out loud.
I happen to think that is very special.

Also and please forgive me for saying this but the mission field is just people and life. It is. Most of the people I know that go on the mission field have been severely hurt. One way or another they all get hurt.

I think thats because we all get hurt. I dont know why but we all get lied too and we all get treated bad if we are following and trying to do the best we can.

If we do good and we get hurt then God is really with us when that happens. Because He suffers the same things. He is good and people think He doesnt even exist! He feeds them sends His rain and His sunshine and they spit at Him all of the time. He sends them people He trusts to do good things for them and what do they do? Murder them in one way or another.

Again thats why we are here because somebody that is supposed to represent the body of Christ hurt us instead of loving us when we were trying to do the very best we could.
Its not just on the mission field. If I were on the mission fiel;d it would make it that much harder to believe just because hey ITS the Mission field right? Things arent supposed to happen like that.

Im here to tell you as you well know, YES they do! You are not alone. A lot of people may not tell you that but a lot of people dont go to church either and its for the very reasons you are saying right here. They dont talk about it either. Just me................ and we.
Im a loud mouth though.

If someone is talking about you or me here shame on them but even if they do its nothing new to me...............its what I do everyday thats important and what you do Illuminated.

YOU are not ILLUMINATED for no reason!
You bring light to my camp and thankyou for speaking out. Rave on my friend Im here Im listening!

Illuminated

05-09-2006, 01:10 PM

Now theres a question. Poop, why did God make it? I like this question, HB. My friend on the mission field (like a niece to me) used poop as an illustration in one of her email messages to me. She said something like "the evil one - he is just a pile of poop on the floor." So, maybe that is why God made poop, and especially made it so stinky.:p

Thank you so much for your encouraging words to me. I have read and re-read them several times. I have hesitated to reply fearing someone would chime in and make a disparaging or rude comment about what I had written once this gets bumped up to the top of the list when I click on that Submit Reply button below!:o

That's pretty bad isn't it....a situation of fear of experiencing rebuke here on this forum. Oh well! I guess it is no different from life in the rest of the Christian world!:rolleyes:

I wonder how long it will take us to get over the fear of being spiritually abused again..... My recovery is taking much much much longer than I thought it would. I am getting very weary of the whole process of recovery. :(

Illuminated

05-09-2006, 01:36 PM

a "dark night of the soul" can also be a beginning for deeper understanding....or so we've all been told!Thank you, Theo for the input. Now, I think I am a little strange or going crazy again because indeed I think I am in a very dark night of the soul.

To me, this spiritual abuse stuff is a dark travesty against both human beings and God. I see it as nothing to joke about. I see instances of spiritual abuse at the hands of other Christians as dark, degrading, devastating, demeaning, and destructive to both parties involved - the abuser and the abused. I just can't treat it lightly or make jokes about it as others seem to do so casually.

I can't see where we should be making fun of the situations we were or are in, as some of us do. I can't see ignoring the situation, as some leaders and family members do. ("Oh! That's all in the past. Just get on with your life. Forgive and forget!") To me that is disrespectful of everyone involved. I can't imagine Paul poking fun at the leaders in Corinth to other believers at Corinth!

I don't believe Jesus made fun of the Pharisees - he got angry at them instead! I don't understand why the body of Christ doesn't take all of these spiritual abuse situations seriously, and begin to address the issues publically.

Why am I afraid to speak publically about what happened to me in the organisation I was with? Why?

Whom shall I fear?

jimsmuse

05-10-2006, 08:01 AM

I believe the quote is from Psalms, "In the dark night of the soul, bright flows the river of God.." . I'm in there with you Illuminated! You can share my raft! love always, Jimsmuse

hornblower

05-10-2006, 08:46 AM

thankyou so much Illuminated..............it is such a hard lol thing to imagine why this is the way it all is isnt it?
I often thought of it when I was caring for my parents. Why when I was loving them and caring for them and I could almost FEEL God there with me, wwas I dealing with that awful fact of life?
Now Im sorry I know this isnt easy to read but hey it is a fact!
Think of Mother Theresa and what she encountered,couldnt have been pretty.
So like the cross.......love deals with some awful stuff.
Thankyou I love you Illiuminated!:o

Illuminated

05-10-2006, 12:01 PM

Think of Mother Theresa and what she encountered,couldnt have been pretty. So like the cross.......love deals with some awful stuff. Thankyou I love you Illiuminated!:o:eek: TRIGGER!!! :eek: TRIGGER!!!:eek:
Mother Teresa TRIGGER!!!! The leader of my group that dished out spiritual abuse(unknowingly I think) is a modern day Mother Theresa herself, and looked to Mother Theresa for her inspiration. And, you wouldn't believe the 'unpretty' things I've seen!

But, you know what??? Here I am handling the trigger without going into a beserk flashback. Progress!!! Thanks HB for the 'exposure therapy' incident. You are helping with my PTSD recovery! Where do I send a $$cheque$$ ? :D
I love you too! :)

yeshua'smags

05-10-2006, 12:25 PM

Saying that those who treat things with jokes are doing so casually is so judgemental. You can't judge the way anyone handles pain.
I can't see where we should be making fun of the situations we were or are in, as some of us do. I can't imagine Paul poking fun at the leaders in Corinth to other believers at Corinth[/COLOR]!

How do you know? He may have made jokes, they just didn't get written down.

I don't believe Jesus made fun of the Pharisees - he got angry at them instead! I don't understand why the body of Christ doesn't take all of these spiritual abuse situations seriously, and begin to address the issues publically.]

You can only take things seriously for so long. When you take yourself and everything around you so seriously all the time it turns into narcissism. And just because some can joke about it doesn't mean they don't take it seriously!

Seriously! (uh oh, humor!)

You don't know that Jesus didn't have a sense of humor about stuff, or that He didn't make jokes. Humans (well, some) do so I'm going to assume that is a God-given trait.
Implying that people are wrong for handling painful things with humor is unfair. Sometimes that is a defense mechanism, and it is the only way I can get through things.

While I realize you were not attacking me personally, I am annoyed that you would write such a judgement on this forum. We handle things how we handle things. If you don't like it, don't handle your stuff that way.

Illuminated

05-10-2006, 01:15 PM

I knew you would once again respond with argumentative words to the way I expressed my opinion, Maggie. It seems to me like you are trying to turn a serious conversation into an argument once again. It is not going to work this time.

This thread was set up by Theodora to discuss spiritual depression, not to pick at people's opinions or feelings. To be quite honest, your remarks are further adding to my spiritual depression.

I can't understand how so many of us can not see the other side of the situation. How can other posters on this forum not wonder about what is going on in my brain? I wondered what was going on in the brain of other users when they joke about things. I wonder how God made other people to think, and how I can learn from them and about them, as fellow believers in Christ.

I am just expressing my thoughts, and once again your are condemning them or trying to make my thoughts seem like an attack on others.

The people who were our abusers are definitely in error, but my goodness, they are people of God also, and I wonder what must be going on in their psyche to cause them to act out with spiritually abusive words and behaviour. But that is the subject of a whole new issue.

Your remarks upset me and make me angry, causing me to stumble. They have upset me from almost the first time you made an entry on this forum when you tore into Janice on the 2nd or 3rd day you were here. I will not respond to any more of your posts, and I ask you respectfully to please not respond to any more of my posts.

I have typed my responses to your comments within yours below, and formatted them to be in blue.
You can only take things seriously for so long. When you take yourself and everything around you so seriously all the time it turns into narcissism. Who told you that? And just because some can joke about it doesn't mean they don't take it seriously! I agree. However I think that it is not very nice to joke about other people of God on a public forum. Especially when those people of God really need some counseling help. You don't know that Jesus didn't have a sense of humor about stuff, or that He didn't make jokes. Do you know? I didn't say that He didn't have a sense of humour. I said I couldn't imagine Him joking about leadership that was in error. Humans (well, some) do so I'm going to assume that is a God-given trait.
Implying that people are wrong for handling painful things with humor is unfair. I did't imply this. But, why would it be unfair, anyway? Sometimes that is a defense mechanism, and it is the only way I can get through things. OK. No problem. But it seems to me that most of us are 'not getting through things', because here we are, posting on this forum.
While I realize you were not attacking me personally, I am annoyed that you would write such a judgement on this forum. What judgement? We handle things how we handle things. If you don't like it, don't handle your stuff that way. I don't handle my stuff that way.

yeshua'smags

05-10-2006, 01:29 PM

I'm not picking a fight. I just don't understand why you get to say things on here and no one has any right to say anything back that you don't agree with.

I was hurt and angry at what you said. Why do you get to come here and say whatever you want to, and have negative opinions so openly about people on here, and then expect no one to respond to what you say? And then when someone doesn't respond the way you wanted, you play the victim, or you act like you don't know what we are talking about.

Please do not paint me as a bully. I have the right to be offended by what is said on here too. And why don't you not drag poor Janice into this?

Illuminated

05-10-2006, 03:03 PM

I'm not picking a fight. Hey Mags! I have a thought.......

What if we set up a separate thread to use just for arguing? There could be different sub-threads in the thread and people could 'argue' about whatever subject was in the title of those sub-threads.

There is a form of discussion that uses argument as a way of exploring topics....in other words, arguing different views with no particular result in mind. I think the ancient Greeks used it.

We could call it Job 33, or something like that, or whatever name you suggest. We could get Theodora to set it up, or you could set it up, or I could set it up. Whaddya think?

yeshua'smags

05-10-2006, 03:45 PM

Is that humor? I thought you didn't like humor.:rolleyes:

:D

Illuminated

05-10-2006, 03:48 PM

Is that humor? I thought you didn't like humor.:rolleyes:
:DNo! It is not humour. I am serious! We could set up a thread, and others could use it also. I dunno about the name of the thread tho, what do you think?
I am trying to remember the name of the discussion technique that uses the argument method, but my brain is dead right now.....

yeshua'smags

05-10-2006, 07:38 PM

[Quote No it's not humour. I am serious!

What was I thinking?

What part of "I'm not picking a fight" didn't you understand. I can't say anything to you without you getting all upset. Why do you say the things you say and expect no one to have the right to react?

I just asked some questions, why are you so defensive?

Actually I do have a result in mind when I ask you this stuff, I want to know why you think the way you think. If you'd just answer my questions instead of getting all up in arms, I could get to know you. Then when you say something that I would have perceived as baiting, or offensive, I can just chalk it up to; that's just how Illuminated is. Why can't we ask you questions to try to get to know you?

And when I say things that would have ruffled your feathers, you can just chalk it up to; that's just how Maggie is. We might even have some sort of mutual respect.

I've been hurt too. I have triggers just like everyone else does on here. How about taking that into consideration too?

newlife

05-10-2006, 08:49 PM

Thank you, Theo for the input. Now, I think I am a little strange or going crazy again because indeed I think I am in a very dark night of the soul.

Dear Illuminated,

I understand that "very dark night of the soul" and I also understand that "All for naught" feeling. I've experienced them both myself. Sometimes it begins to seem like life is not worth living. :( I loved what Theo had to say that it can also be a beginning for deeper understanding. There is such hope in that comment. As I've been on this recovery journey since August 2004, I've experienced a full gamut of emotions. Just within the last 2 weeks I've begun to enter into a new phase...a much more hopeful phase...

To me, this spiritual abuse stuff is a dark travesty against both human beings and God. I see it as nothing to joke about. I see instances of spiritual abuse at the hands of other Christians as dark, degrading, devastating, demeaning, and destructive to both parties involved - the abuser and the abused. I just can't treat it lightly or make jokes about it as others seem to do so casually.

I, too, see this spiritual abuse stuff as a dark travesty against both human beings and God. However, sometimes humor helps me to cope with the pain. If I didn't have a sense of humor about it at times, I think I would have gone crazy by now. It's not that I take it lightly or casually at all . It has been the hardest thing that I've ever experienced in my life!!! I've dealt with PTSD with severe symptoms...I've experienced deep, deep depression...I experience nightmares and insomnia...I've cried my eyes out over it on many, many occasions (both during the abuse and since I've left)!!!

I can't see where we should be making fun of the situations we were or are in, as some of us do. I can't see ignoring the situation, as some leaders and family members do. ("Oh! That's all in the past. Just get on with your life. Forgive and forget!") To me that is disrespectful of everyone involved. I can't imagine Paul poking fun at the leaders in Corinth to other believers at Corinth!

I don't believe Jesus made fun of the Pharisees - he got angry at them instead! I don't understand why the body of Christ doesn't take all of these spiritual abuse situations seriously, and begin to address the issues publically.

I've been told those words too, "That's all in the past. Just get on with your life." It's not that easy! If is was, I would do it!!! I think that people want to ignor the situation because they don't really know how to deal with it, so instead they want to just sweep it under the rug...pretend that it didn't happen...but it did happen...:(

Why am I afraid to speak publically about what happened to me in the organisation I was with? Why?

Whom shall I fear?

I ask myself that same question...my son also asks me...I think that for me, I still feel intimidated by the cult leader...Why??? I don't know...

Illuminated

05-10-2006, 09:23 PM

Your comments and questions are in purple. My responses are in blue.

What was I thinking? This remark sounds sarcastic to me. :(

What part of "I'm not picking a fight" didn't you understand. This remark sounds condescending to me. I think you are trying to pick a fight.
I can't say anything to you without you getting all upset. This is not true.
Why do you say the things you say and expect no one to have the right to react? You are accusing me of expecting no one to have the right to react. I am not going to dignify that question with an answer.

I just asked some questions, why are you so defensive? In the questions you asked me, you put words into my mouth and tried to tell me how I think.
Why do you get to come here and say whatever you want to, We all get to do this as long as we are not attacking someone else.
...and have negative opinions so openly about people on here... You are accusing me of having negative opinions about people here and I don't agree with that statement. If I were to answer it, I would be answering my accuser. It is better to remain silent.
....and then expect no one to respond to what you say? By saying these words, you are accusing me of expecting no one to have the right to respond. I have no reply.

The technique you are using, I think unconciously, is actuallly a technique of intimidation where the question asker actually accuses the person of something within the question. It is a technique also of manipulation.

And then when someone doesn't respond the way you wanted, you play the victim, or you act like you don't know what we are talking about. With all due respect, sometimes I don't know what people are talking about, but I certainly don't get all upset about it. I ask questions so I can figure out what they mean.

Please do not paint me as a bully. You are accusing me of describing you as a bully. I will remain silent.
I have a right to be offended by what is said on here too. Yes, you do. However, the nature of this thread is spiritual depression, and I was asking unanswerable questions to express my thoughts. It seems unhelpful to verbally attack someone when they are struggling in the miry clay. As Christians, we are supposed to come along side each other in our times of difficulty.
And why don't you not drag poor Janice into this? I did not drag Janice into this. I did mention your response to her.

Actually I do have a result in mind when I ask you this stuff, I want to know why you think the way you think. If you'd just answer my questions instead of getting all up in arms, I could get to know you. I did try and suggest another thread where we could 'talk' and get to know each other, but you responded with what I think is a sarcastic reply, and further attacks on what I wrote. Please take no offense, Mags, but at this point I am not interested in getting to know you. Your accusatory verbal attacks on me are too much of a reminder of the way I was treated in the past. This is my problem, not yours. I can't handle any more of your accusatory wordings. This is my problem.

Then when you say something that I would have perceived as baiting, or offensive, I can just chalk it up to; that's just how Illuminated is. After this exchange, I can't think of a reason why I would want you to know how I am and how I think. I have bared my soul to others in the past, and have only gotten devastingly hurt. I have bared my mind/soul here on this forum in this thread, and what happens????? You are accusing me of things. I was simply lamenting what I see as a casual approach to something I think is very serious.
Why can't we ask you questions to try to get to know you? You can ask me questions. You have asked me questions. I do not have to answer them. This is a free speech forum. Please see my explanations for not answering questions after the few questions you have asked me above.

And when I say things that would have ruffled your feathers, you can just chalk it up to; that's just how Maggie is. We might even have some sort of mutual respect. I've been hurt too. I have triggers just like everyone else does on here. I understand. I did suggest another thread where we could 'argue' as a means of communicating.
How about taking that into consideration too? You are accusing me, within your question, of not taking your triggers/feelings into consideration. I don't know what your triggers are. The things I wrote were not directed towards you. They were not in response to anything you said. They were an explanation of my spiritual state in response to an article that was posted that hit home with me, and as a further response to other people in the forum who gave me encouragement.

sprout

05-10-2006, 10:06 PM

I have learned in just a short time to deeply value both of you and your posts. I have decided to have faith that some here pray honest and offline when they say they will.....and in all honesty I have coveted the prayers of BOTH of you. But I gotta say that it seems you BOTH have taken 'healthy debate' to a combative level. I guess the healthy thing to do would be to ask God for discretion and guidance in fighting this apparent division. But I cannot do this without in all humility without upholding what I have been learning about boundaries.
Maybe a b*****N thread IS the answer, because seein folks I value in Christ go for the throat is triggerin and hurtful to me. I choose to respect you both.

Illuminated

05-10-2006, 10:20 PM

But I cannot do this without in all humility without upholding what I have been learning about boundaries.
Maybe a b*****N thread IS the answer, because seein folks I value in Christ go for the throat is triggerin and hurtful to me. I choose to respect you both.Thanks for your input, Slapped Hick. I tried to diffuse the situation earlier by suggesting the griping thread. No joy. Then, the old human self came into play, and I felt the need to respond further and stand up for myself. My mistake. Egad. :( I certainly am not perfect! :o

I think what I was doing in this exchange was trying to set the boundaries that I would put up with. I have heard about the Boundaries book, but I haven't read it yet because I'm fearful that it will just make me feel stupid for not setting boundaries last year in the situation I was in. What have you learned about boundaries? Do you think I should read the book? :confused:

sprout

05-10-2006, 10:28 PM

Illuminated

05-10-2006, 10:32 PM

Just within the last 2 weeks I've begun to enter into a new phase...a much more hopeful phase... Thanks for the input. Do you feel comfortable telling why you think you have entered a new phase?

If I didn't have a sense of humor about it at times, I think I would have gone crazy by now. It's not that I take it lightly or casually at all . I guess I'm just not to that stage in recovery yet! Soon, maybe....:o

It has been the hardest thing that I've ever experienced in my life!!! I've dealt with PTSD with severe symptoms...I've experienced deep, deep depression...I experience nightmares and insomnia...I've cried my eyes out over it on many, many occasions (both during the abuse and since I've left)!!!Do you have any tips about handling the complex PTSD? I had a surprise trigger last week and went uncontrollably beserk. It seems like new triggers keep showing up, and that fact is making me spiral downwards.....Yuck!:(

I ask myself that same question...my son also asks me...I think that for me, I still feel intimidated by the cult leader...Why??? I don't know...This is a real dilemma I would like an expert answer on. I keep thinking of the 'Touch not thine annointed' saying, but I can't believe that I would actually believe that. Then there is the 'Don't Talk' rule .... I am not used to breaking rules.... aaaggghhh!:o

Illuminated

05-10-2006, 10:42 PM

shoot ma'am....I didnt read any book. Boundaries are simply stating in honesty and love that no matter how tempting the words and actions of others are to react to....I refuse to let that reaction interfere with learnin who God is and what He wants me to do on sanctification railroad. So if somebody is makin it hard for me to get on with God learnin....
I gotta tell them....then shrug it off and grow anyhow. Does that make sense?Thanks for the explanation. It does all makes sense. Except, of course, the shootin you part.

Maybe all of this is just a stop on the sanctification railroad after all.... learning when to shrug it off. :confused:

Actually, I think what I tried to do was turn the other cheek, and I couldn't follow through with the process and get my mouth from hangin over one shoulder to hangin over the other shoulder. I got only halfway through the turn and let my mouth start flappin again.

There is a book out that talks about setting boundaries though.

newlife

05-11-2006, 12:25 AM

Thanks for the input. Do you feel comfortable telling why you think you have entered a new phase?

I'll try to put it into words...it's actually more of a feeling that I'm experiencing, so it's kind of hard to describe. I just went through a VERY, VERY triggering situation...I don't want to go into details, but I suffered a MAJOR PTSD attack that lasted for four days. For four days, my heart pounded, my stomach churned, the adrenaline was flowing "big time"! Then, once everything was over and I was able to calm down again, I began to think more rationally than I have since before I joined the cult. Now, what I'm about to say could trigger some people and I'm just telling you where I personally am in my journey...others may not be at this point...and I am newly at this point myself...I began to see that my involvement with the cult leader is in my past, not my present, and I am feeling like I can leave it there in my past. It is a part of my history, and cannot be changed, but that is where it is at-- "in my history", not my present. So I feel like I'm at a point to "let go" of the pain. I'm truly seeing the cult leader for what he is, a liar, a narcissistic sociopath, and I'm glad that I'm away from him. Most people who are not in the cult do not believe his lies...I found out that he continues to lie about our family. But I began to realize that my life itself disproves his lies. Those who know me and my family do not believe his lies about us. Really the only ones who believe them are those who are under his mind control, who I am also no longer associating with either. I am also feeling a urging to draw closer to the Lord again, something that I had lost for awhile...in the last two weeks I've been reminded that nothing can separate me from the love of God (Romans 8:39) and that the Lord is my shepherd. Just today, my mind went to Psalm 23 and I drew comfort in the thought that he makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters, and he restores my soul. As I meditated on those words, I felt like that is the place where I'm at right now...the Lord is restoring my soul. I saw the word picture there and I thought of how one of my favorite places in the world is sitting beside a lake...quiet waters...and how peaceful I feel when I sit by a lake, just looking at it. I am feeling a peace again...a peace that hasn't been there in a long, long time...and I am holding that peace closely to my heart...I don't want it to ever be robbed from me again!

I guess I'm just not to that stage in recovery yet! Soon, maybe....:o

When I first left the cult, I didn't see any humor in the situation...I just saw the desperateness...I was in a survival mode, deeply depressed, and dealing with PTSD. Then, as time went on, I began to see how crazy everything in the cult was and it was so crazy that it became humorous. There was a very lengthy thread back around November or December about the "Craziest Church Award". Talk about humorous! You might want to go back and read about some of craziness that goes on in some of these churches!

Do you have any tips about handling the complex PTSD? I had a surprise trigger last week and went uncontrollably beserk. It seems like new triggers keep showing up, and that fact is making me spiral downwards.....Yuck!:(

No, I don't have any tips about handling PTSD...like I said, I just had a MAJOR trigger a little over 2 weeks ago and it sent me into a severe PTSD attack that lasted for 4 days. We'll see how I handle the next trigger that comes my way...at least now I'm beginning to notice that I can talk about the cult without my heart starting to pound...that's a positive sign! I had a dream the other night that I had an encounter with the cult leader and in my dream he was demanding that I come to him and I was yelling back at him, "I don't have to do what you say! You don't have any right to tell me what to do!" I thought that that was very interesting, especially since there was a thread on here recently about dreams and how dreams are actually our mind's way of processing our feelings and what we're going through. Though I've had lots and lots of dreams about the cult leader and the cult, this was the first dream where I wasn't afraid of the cult leader and I was able to forcefully exert myself to him...even if it was just a dream! When I woke up, I felt so good!!! :D

Well, that's all of my thoughts for now...I just want to encourage you not to give up...recovery isn't easy, but it can be a new beginning for a deeper understanding...but it all takes time...

Love, newlife

yeshua'smags

05-11-2006, 09:05 AM

Ok, look, there is no "Jedi Mind Control", no subconscious bullying, no intimidation tactics. You give me far too much credit.

I was offended. I told you that I was offended so that maybe you'd be careful what blanked statements you make about how other people handle things, i.e. humor, jokes, etc. What you said made me feel like you were passing judgement on the depth of my relationship with God because I choose to do things differently than you do.

I'm sorry you are choosing not to get to know me. I think we could help eachother a lot. I'm sorry you so terribly misunderstood what I was saying, and that you can't see when someone is genuinely trying to break down your walls. My methods may not be perfect, but my intentions were pure, I assure you.

Too bad, we might have been friends.

aftermath

05-11-2006, 01:56 PM

yeshua'smags

05-11-2006, 02:40 PM

hey Illuminated, here's a line I like from a Crowded House song called "Everything is good for you":

"...it's a nightmare jump into a restless ocean, but if you come undone it might just set you free..."

4 major life changing concepts in the punch of one line. its really mind-boggling, but true.

Very cool aftermath!

*********Not meant to be confrontational in any way!!!*************
What if you became undone, Illuminated? What would happen? What if you just let go? I'm just asking, don't feel like I'm attacking you. You don't even have to answer.

Illuminated

05-11-2006, 03:01 PM

I began to see that my involvement with the cult leader is in my past, not my present, and I am feeling like I can leave it there in my past. It is a part of my history, and cannot be changed, but that is where it is at-- "in my history", not my present. So I feel like I'm at a point to "let go" of the pain. .....and I am holding that peace closely to my heart...I don't want it to ever be robbed from me again!
....in my dream he was demanding that I come to him and I was yelling back at him, "I don't have to do what you say! You don't have any right to tell me what to do!" ...I just want to encourage you not to give up...recovery isn't easy, but it can be a new beginning for a deeper understanding...but it all takes time...
Thanks for your thoughts and your encouragement. Just a few days ago I realised that it has already been a year since I returned (only been 9 months since I am no longer involved with the group) and I can't remember about half of the time! It seems like I just got back yesterday. So, I figured, something has to change - just like you want to put it all in the past - and I have to get on with my life!:)
I haven't had a nightmare about the situation in about 2 weeks. Hallelujah! Your dream was so right - you don't have to do what he says - he no longer has any control over you!:p
I'm waiting for that deeper understanding of why Jesus died for us if humans still are evil and cruel......:o

newlife

05-11-2006, 03:51 PM

Thanks for your thoughts and your encouragement. Just a few days ago I realised that it has already been a year since I returned (only been 9 months since I am no longer involved with the group) and I can't remember about half of the time! It seems like I just got back yesterday. So, I figured, something has to change - just like you want to put it all in the past - and I have to get on with my life!:)
I haven't had a nightmare about the situation in about 2 weeks. Hallelujah! Your dream was so right - you don't have to do what he says - he no longer has any control over you!:p
I'm waiting for that deeper understanding of why Jesus died for us if humans still are evil and cruel......:o

I have wanted to put it in the past for some time now, but my mind just "wouldn't let me"! :o I guess that I must have reached a level of processing everything, that I've finally reached that point of letting "the past be the past". I did some reading online about the process of forgiveness and reaching that point is simply a part of the process. But it didn't come overnight for me, by any means!!! It has been a long, painful process...and I am not deluding myself that it's all over yet...but I can definitely tell that within me there's been progress (even my dream eluded to that).

Here's what has worked for me: Give yourself patience to take each baby step and celebrate those baby steps. After we left the cult, I had insomnia for a year. I'd never had insomnia in my life before then and it was very difficult to deal with. Sometimes I would drink a cup of herbal tea, or a glass of wine, or take an over-the-counter sleep aid to try to help me sleep, but those things never gave me a restful night's sleep. Then, finally, right around the one-year anniversary of our leaving the cult, I managed to fall asleep around 11:00 PM and slept until 7:00 AM the next morning! When I woke up and realized that I had slept through the night for 8 hours, I was thrilled!!! I rejoiced that I got a decent night's sleep! I celebrated that step! Have I completely overcome insomnia? No, unfortunately, when I'm stressed and I'm battling the PTSD symptoms, I still can experience insomnia. But for the most part, it's gone.

About your question about "that deeper understanding of why Jesus died for us if humans still are evil and cruel". That is a good question. In the last several months I have thought about the condition of the world...both inside and outside of the church...the proliferation of falsehoods within the church...the hypocrisy, the abuse, etc...and outside of the church, nations can't get along with nations, there's fighting and controversy in our own nation, terrorism, abuse, etc., etc. What I see reminds me of what Jesus described in Matthew 24. I have come to the conclusion that I can't really change these things, but I can seek to follow the Lord as he leads me. I find peace in my relationship with Him...to me that's the deeper understanding of why Jesus died for us...he knew that not all people would come to him to have a relationship with him (even many within the "church"), but for those who do come, that's why he died. Many times I feel like Paul in Galatians...I have not yet attained it, but I press toward the mark. It's all I can do...

Love, newlife

hornblower

05-11-2006, 08:53 PM

Illuminated.............was just catching up on the posts and wow its too much for me. Anyway I wanted to tell you that I'm so sorry about the Mother T thing. You know I would have no idea what that could do but Im just sorry that these things can touch you and hurt like that. I certainly do understand how it is. I have so many tirggers myself all day long it happens to me in a dozen different ways.

I do feel like I am getting slowly better too. I know its from coming here. As long as someone can be patient with me and I with them which takes so much hard work because hey we are nboth and all of us still having to deal with ordinary living on top of everything we have been through.

I suffer with this idea in my mind that Jesus wants me to suffer just like He did but you know what I really think that this is the enemy of us all telling me these things. Jesus said "come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest, for I am gentle and humble and my yoke is light."
I dont know about you but these scriptures bering me such hope and life when I think that now I have this friend that doesnt put a bunch of rules on me and make me feel like Illnever do enough or be enough. He bids me to rest.

When things get overwhelming for me I try to sit down and enjoy the air and just breathe. I find something anything that brings me some joy and some fun in living and then I feel His presence always when I do that. I know its Him sitting there with me enjoying the day or night. This is the Jesus that I know and love. This is the truth and everything else I dont need to figure out.

He is the lover of my soul. This is the peace that passes understanding. Not doing a dratted thing just being here...................thats enough for Him. He never told me I had to do one thing! Why do I think I can earn Him when I know He came to give me what I always wanted.....................love.

Other people other things other messages get all mixed up inside of me and I get confused.

Did you know or do you remember reading that Jesus said that He didnt come to bring peace to the earth? He came bringing a sword. He divides us.

Im not altogether I understand all of that message but one thing is for sure I have experienced it. I think you have too. I think what you and I need to accept is that maybe we are in the light and they were in the dark. Thats that! Nothing we can do about it but accept that we are His....................maybe they arent?

In any case we dont have to worry about it. All we have to know is who we are and who we belong too.