Members may be trolling this forum...

[mary]

Re: my old thread, "Was this spiritual abuse?"

After months of "no contact" whatsoever, I have been contacted recently by a couple of people from the old snakepit. The most recent contact was yesterday, when the woman who made a mountain out of a molehill last October (apparently, she told people, including "pastor," that I'd "created several ugly scenes" at a church women's outing - no such thing ever happened, and she knows it - and also told him I was leaving without knowing the whole story about his "non-pastorly" behavior with my husband and with me) all of a sudden, out of the blue, sent me an e-mail requesting that I sponsor her in a "walk for cancer." It would be a considerable amount of money. This person is aware that I'm a cancer survivor myself. The sheer gall that this demonstrates leaves me speechless. :( :eek:

The reason that I know what happened a few months ago is that at the time, I was forwarded a couple of "pastor's" e-mails to a friend of mine that were gossipy in tone and laid all this out...

I am not stupid. I believe there's an outside chance that some members of that ecclesiastical sewer are trolling this forum and they know who I am. I suspect that if so, this has to do with that forum in Europe that I was thrown off of a couple of weeks ago. Someone has added up some stray details and pointed the finger at me.

I have one other ace up my sleeve for "pastor" and I may pull it. It's a good one and I may launch it today. (I know I said I wouldn't do anything else, but this one would be great. ;) )

Ideas and comments would be most welcome. You're all always so practical and helpful... Thanks in advance.

mary

[tke316]

Man! Talk about Vindictive!:eek: :mad:

[Illuminated]

sent me an e-mail requesting that I sponsor her in a "walk for cancer." It would be a considerable amount of money. This person is aware that I'm a cancer survivor myself. The sheer gall that this demonstrates leaves me speechless. :( :eek:
Do you think maybe your email address was still on some sort of gang email list that she uses? Maybe????:confused:

[SpinningHead]

I've had the same fleeting fear that former "friends" would find me on this forum and cause me more harm.

I'm learning peace every day that I choose not to play the game. I may be out of the "system" but is the "system" out of me? Can I still be sucked into their games even though I don't go to that "system" anymore? Every day it's my choice to not play into it and get my focus and dependance on Jesus. Some days are so much harder than others.

I'm learning what it means to loose my life to gain it. Not fun but I'd have it no other way.

This is just my experience.

If you can relate, then it's the question you have to ask yourself.

[mary]

Do you think maybe your email address was still on some sort of gang email list that she uses? Maybe????:confused:

No, she sent it to me only... I know what she's doing. :(

You're right, tke316... My sentiments exactly when I saw the e-mail... Thanks!

Thanks, Illuminated and SpinningHead. I know that I need to turn this over to the Lord and let Him deal with it. John 16:1-3; Matthew 10:28, after all!!! And Psalm 91... Psalm 56, too... So many other places in Scripture.

There's nowhere else to fly to but to the Lord Jesus Christ. Sometimes I forget this... You're right, SpinningHead: you have to lose your "claim" to everything on this earth. This is God's business to take care of, not mine...

I pray for Him to take care of these people in His will, not mine. Thank you so very much for the "redirection!!!!" I needed it!

mary

[ex-shep]

I've had the same fleeting fear that former "friends" would find me on this forum and cause me more harm.

I'm learning peace every day that I choose not to play the game. I may be out of the "system" but is the "system" out of me? Can I still be sucked into their games even though I don't go to that "system" anymore? Every day it's my choice to not play into it and get my focus and dependance on Jesus. Some days are so much harder than others.

I'm learning what it means to loose my life to gain it. Not fun but I'd have it no other way.

This is just my experience.

If you can relate, then it's the question you have to ask yourself.


That is why I do not mention my groups. I have to remind myself that was then and this is now. The groups no longer have any relevance. A fellow member in recovery mused, "It is a nice looking game board, the pieces are equisitely made, the board is of the most elegent word. But I am no I am going to loose. So thanks, but, No thanks, I do not feel like playing today." Keeps me out of the codependent dawnybrook.

[Illuminated]

It is so hard for me to get on with my life. Like you Mary, I still after, 9 months, want to 'get to the bottom' of the situation and receive some kind of apology or resetitution or something.

Even right now I am trying to wind things up with the group and I have decided to tell the leaders of the group all the terrible things that happened to me when I was in the group, and how much their treatment of me has ruined the last year of my life. And then, I think, why be transparent with them ? When I was transparent before all they did was stomp on my heart and mash in into the dirt.

I think...they should be made accountable for their actions (two professional Chrisitans counselors whom I respect very much have told me that). But, then I think, why bother? It is just drawing the wretched situation out even more.

But, then I think - Vindication!!!! And, then, I think "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord!"

And then, I think, it is my Christian duty to let the leaders know how unethical their organisation is. And, then, I think what if after I expose them, what if they come back at me with more lies?

And then, I think "Can I live with myself if I don't expose them?" And then, I think "Turn the other cheek".

And then, I think, I'M GOING CRAZY!!!!:eek:

[Jerry]

Dear Illuminated & Mary,,,,
Part of the problem you guys are having I call the "Vindication Fanticy",,,,,,Somehow there will be that one thing I can say,,,,,that one thing I can express that will bring me back in the fold,or better said ,will bring the fold back to me in sincere repentance for my injury,,,,,and I will forgive them and we all will be happy.............................Sweeties,,,,we all go through that stage,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,until we realize that they are truly decieved and that only GODS intercession can save them ;) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It's at that realization that we finally move on ;)
Love Jerry

[hornblower]

Ha! Well Yeah!:mad:
I want them to grovel at my feet!
Truth is they dont even know Im alive and could care less.
Thats why they are who they are and I am who I am.
I always care.

[jjc9497]

It is so hard for me to get on with my life. Like you Mary, I still after, 9 months, want to 'get to the bottom' of the situation and receive some kind of apology or resetitution or something.

Even right now I am trying to wind things up with the group and I have decided to tell the leaders of the group all the terrible things that happened to me when I was in the group, and how much their treatment of me has ruined the last year of my life. And then, I think, why be transparent with them ? When I was transparent before all they did was stomp on my heart and mash in into the dirt.

I think...they should be made accountable for their actions (two professional Chrisitans counselors whom I respect very much have told me that). But, then I think, why bother? It is just drawing the wretched situation out even more.

But, then I think - Vindication!!!! And, then, I think "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord!"

And then, I think, it is my Christian duty to let the leaders know how unethical their organisation is. And, then, I think what if after I expose them, what if they come back at me with more lies?

And then, I think "Can I live with myself if I don't expose them?" And then, I think "Turn the other cheek".

And then, I think, I'M GOING CRAZY!!!!:eek:

WOW--you are in MY head--We must both be CRAZY!!!!

[mary]

Dear Illuminated & Mary,,,,
Part of the problem you guys are having I call the "Vindication Fanticy",,,,,,Somehow there will be that one thing I can say,,,,,that one thing I can express that will bring me back in the fold,or better said ,will bring the fold back to me in sincere repentance for my injury,,,,,and I will forgive them and we all will be happy.............................Sweeties,,,,we all go through that stage,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,until we realize that they are truly decieved and that only GODS intercession can save them ;) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It's at that realization that we finally move on ;)
Love Jerry

Well, Jerry, I can't speak for Illuminated, obviously, but with me it's not a vindication fantasy. No. I'm Elliot Ness, you see. I am cold - colder than absolute zero. I am calculating to a degree that I scare even myself sometimes, but not too often because I know what I've done in the past and I know the extent of cold-bloodedness of which I'm capable. I have access to various and sundry attorneys and contacts in law enforcement at my fingertips. I've told off judges in the past - why would I be afraid of or cowed by or be susceptible to the entreaties - should they come - of a mere "pastor?" I would never want to be brought back into "the fold," nor do I want "the fold" to come to me. I want no apologies because there is no way I would believe them. I've been in the legal field and even dabbled in working in criminal defense for too long to have any illusions whatsoever. I know now what I'm dealing with (although for awhile there, I was duped into thinking I was dealing with real Christians), and it ain't pretty. It's pure evil; it's the "principalities and powers" that Ephesians warns us about. No one who wants to stand up for Jesus Christ can ever have illusions about this type of evil.

We're told to be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves. We're not told to cry forever or that the Lord Himself will not avenge wrongs. We're also told that things that were done in secret will all come to light in His timing.

Friendship again with these people is not something I long for. I don't even want peace with them. I want "pastor" dealt with to the fullest extent that the laws of this state and that the federal government (assuming federal laws have been broken) permit. That's all I want, and that's all I'm aiming for.

Emotions have no place in this type of scenario, although I would now like to find a decent church in which to worship the Lord, the One Who saved me and Who instituted moral law and stands as the Ruler of civil law as well (Romans 13).

You can "boo-hoo" until the cows come home. I've "boo-hoo'ed" enough. All I care about now is that certain statutes of limitations don't expire before charges are brought, if that's in order.

That said, I still send, as always,

Love,

mary :D

[hornblower]

Wow Mary!!!!!!!!!! You Go GIRL!!!!!!!!! I love it when you talk like that. That whole thing just makes my little victimised self tremble with fear and you got it down right JOYYYYYYYYYY:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Forsaken]

Hello Mary,

You say that you are cold. I think is that you are also very angry and I think that your anger is justified.

I would warn to not put *too* much energy into vengence or justice.. (however you may see it.) As much as you gain self satisfaction from such an endeavour, you also direct alot of your valuable time that could often have been better spent.

The woman who contacted you with the email about the cancer fund. She is definately missing a large degree of sensitivity. Personally, I think she is trying in some (very wrong) way to show you that she is a righteous or good person. That is why you got the email. In an attempt (probably as a result of her guilty conscience of gossiping about you) to show you that she cares about issues that you have dealt with personally. I have observed similar behaviour in people. I used to know this woman that would turn up at my house with an elaborate gift or cake, and would always do so after complaining about me to her friend.

However you decide to proceed, God Bless :)

[Illuminated]

until we realize that they are truly decieved and that only GODS intercession can save them ;) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It's at that realization that we finally move on ;) Jerry - when did you realize your group was decieved? How long was it after you 'left' the groups before you were able to 'move on'? What made you realise it was time to move on?:confused:

[Janice]

I think...they should be made accountable for their actions (two professional Chrisitans counselors whom I respect very much have told me that). But, then I think, why bother? It is just drawing the wretched situation out even more.

But, then I think - Vindication!!!! And, then, I think "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord!"

You're not going crazy. All of us have experienced the same. These people WILL be held accountable. If not here on earth then in the hereafter. And yes, venegence is the Lord's.

[Jerry]

Jerry - when did you realize your group was deceived? How long was it after you 'left' the groups before you were able to 'move on'? What made you realise it was time to move on?:confused:
Dear Illuminated,,,
To be honest ,,,I knew they were deceived ,persisted for a time,thinking that I could somehow change things.I discovered that the only "Thing" I could change was me.So I continued to study on my own instead of listening to half truths and uneducated "clap-trap".Then one Sunday listening to the "Slurman" :D I found myself sort of looking down on that "Thing" down there,,,,,and it was me standing up interrupting the service declaring to all in attendance,,,,"This stuff he is spoon-feeding you people is bullshit !!!!! ",,,,,then turned ,took my wife by the hand,her eyes the size of dinner plates, and walked out......We drove home in silence with tears on our faces.I pulled into the driveway turned off the car. Then my wife and I received our first miracle in a long time.We looked at each other in this silence you could cut with a knife,,,,,,,,,and started laughing,,,,for probably 20 minutes straight we laughed......So thinking about it,,,,maybe I don't understand you guys as much as I thought because for us,,,,,our leaving and moving on were the same thing.I guess each has different circumstances ;)
Love Jerry

[Illuminated]

and started laughing,,,,for probably 20 minutes straight we laughed......So thinking about it,,,,maybe I don't understand you guys as much as I thought because for us,,,,,our leaving and moving on were the same thing.I guess each has different circumstances ;)
You go, guy, GO!!! Walk right out of that sermon! :p
I admire your forthrighteousness! :eek:

In January, by Divine appointment, I met with a 'Christian' psychiatrist. To make a long story short, he had been in the same place I was on the mission field at the same time I was as a visitor, and he is a supporter of the mission group I was with. He recognised me and told me he knew all about the situation. :confused:

The next visit when I told him I had gone off the medicine (he hadn't even prescribed it for me - I was there to change medicine) he stood up, and kinda came at me physically in a threatening manner and said "You are coming out from under my spiritual authority! Do you want to know something about spiritual authority??? I'll teach you about spiritual authority!!!" :eek:

I was shocked. He wouldn't let me talk as he started to tell me all about spiritual authority. Finally, shaking but in complete control and in a calm voice, I told him I knew all about spiritual authority, and I wasn't under his!;)

As I left his office, gracefully after shaking his hand, I was so distressed inside I couldn't find my way out of the hallways and lobby. I finally did, shaking like a leaf with unbelief over what had just happened. Then, after walking halfway to my car...:mad:

......I burst into laughter! I almost doubled over in laughter. I was laughing out loud, and I'm glad there was no one else in the parking lot to hear me. I laughed all the way home! I laughed when I told my sister about it. I laughed when I told my husband about it. I still laugh when I think about it because the situation was so unbelievable!!!!:)

So yes, I think you do understand us, at least as much as you can - you being a guy and everything.....:D

[mary]

Dear Illuminated,,,
To be honest ,,,I knew they were deceived ,persisted for a time,thinking that I could somehow change things.I discovered that the only "Thing" I could change was me.So I continued to study on my own instead of listening to half truths and uneducated "clap-trap".Then one Sunday listening to the "Slurman" :D I found myself sort of looking down on that "Thing" down there,,,,,and it was me standing up interrupting the service declaring to all in attendance,,,,"This stuff he is spoon-feeding you people is bullshit !!!!! ",,,,,then turned ,took my wife by the hand,her eyes the size of dinner plates, and walked out......We drove home in silence with tears on our faces.I pulled into the driveway turned off the car. Then my wife and I received our first miracle in a long time.We looked at each other in this silence you could cut with a knife,,,,,,,,,and started laughing,,,,for probably 20 minutes straight we laughed......So thinking about it,,,,maybe I don't understand you guys as much as I thought because for us,,,,,our leaving and moving on were the same thing.I guess each has different circumstances ;)
Love Jerry

Jerry, that must have been a truly beautiful moment in your marriage! :D :eek: :D If you don't mind my asking, how long had you and your wife been married when that happened? To me, that's better than any movie or TV love story I've seen in a long, long time. This story is a keeper and a half - it's "a thing of beauty and a joy forever." Mazel tov, as we say in our shul...

Talk about stand-up guys, Jerry: you are one for the ages! :)

mary

[Jerry]

Jerry, that must have been a truly beautiful moment in your marriage! :D :eek: :D If you don't mind my asking, how long had you and your wife been married when that happened? To me, that's better than any movie or TV love story I've seen in a long, long time. This story is a keeper and a half - it's "a thing of beauty and a joy forever." Mazel tov, as we say in our shul...

Talk about stand-up guys, Jerry: you are one for the ages! :)

mary
Dear Mary,,,
Ya know,,,,,I never really thought of it but yes it was a beautiful moment :) We had been married oh maybe 12 years,,,,I'll have to ask my wife what year that was :D .....................Stand up guy ????,,,,,,,hehehe looking back I guess maybe I was but it sure didn't feel like that :eek:
Love Jerry

[mary]

Hello Mary,

You say that you are cold. I think is that you are also very angry and I think that your anger is justified.

I would warn to not put *too* much energy into vengence or justice.. (however you may see it.) As much as you gain self satisfaction from such an endeavour, you also direct alot of your valuable time that could often have been better spent.

The woman who contacted you with the email about the cancer fund. She is definately missing a large degree of sensitivity. Personally, I think she is trying in some (very wrong) way to show you that she is a righteous or good person. That is why you got the email. In an attempt (probably as a result of her guilty conscience of gossiping about you) to show you that she cares about issues that you have dealt with personally. I have observed similar behaviour in people. I used to know this woman that would turn up at my house with an elaborate gift or cake, and would always do so after complaining about me to her friend.

However you decide to proceed, God Bless :)

And God bless you, too, Forsaken! :)

I don't think I've welcomed you yet to this forum, so here's an official "welcome" to you!

Oh, I don't spend an inordinate amount of time on this... I've been working a lot this week and I didn't have time to make any phone calls at all... The whole thing kind of slips my mind when I'm at work because I'm just too busy to think about it when I'm there. My vengeance, I know, would be extremely flawed - but the Lord will exact His perfect vengeance against these people. I pray on it and sometimes the Lord puts people or ideas in my path - and I sense that that's the way He would have me proceed. I called Elder Abuse Services after praying - because "pastor" shouldn't get away with fleecing elderly people, and the county EAS is the way to stop him. Who else was going to do it? I felt as though it was put in my path; I was at home, sick with the flu the day I did it and I don't like to have a "non-productive" day even when I'm sick... If I do anything else, I pray it'll be only at the Lord's leading.

Anyone who would bring a gift or cake over to your home after gossiping about you is nuts, in my opinion. How transparent is that???? I'm sorry someone would be that mean and crazy as to do that to you, Forsaken... "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do..."

mary

[mary]

Wow Mary!!!!!!!!!! You Go GIRL!!!!!!!!! I love it when you talk like that. That whole thing just makes my little victimised self tremble with fear and you got it down right JOYYYYYYYYYY:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Thank YOU, Hornblower... (Sorry for the delayed reply; I was bowled over by the realization that maybe someone else was helped, because that's what it's all about here :) )

I just want these false shepherds to know that their day is coming and I want the dear sheep to know it in their bones that justice will happen. It doesn't matter at all if we see it or if we're cogs in the wheels that eventually will roll over them. Whatever. Each one of these creeps, yours, mine, Gwen's, Carmen's, Jerry's - hey, I've got to stop somewhere, but I mean EACH of yours! - they'll all get theirs. I'd just like for the Lord to slap mine up the side of his fat head (since I'll never get to do it) and knock some salvation and maybe a little sense into him. If it takes criminal indictments to do it, then so be it. For some reason ;), the Lord finally put someone in his congregation who knows her way around the legal system and isn't ultimately duped by a family of flim-flam artistes. However, justice will come to your "pastor" too, and in a way that most pleases the Lord, Who absolutely delights in removing false shepherds and in gathering His flock to Himself once again. (Ezekiel 34.)

mary

[Carmen]

You are strong, Mary! Even if some from that European forum may have found your posts here, they can't separate you from Jesus Christ, nobody can, and if they start posting here, we'll sick 'em (If I'm absent a few days send me a mail, that usually gets through - I wouldn't want to miss it). Who are "they", anyway? They don't have a monopoly on the gospel.

Walking out of service like that Jerry, ha, ha! I wish I had the nerve to do that too when it happened to me. At least I'm outta there....