Codependency and Spiritual Abuse

[Voyager]

I have recently been reading a book that has opened my eyes on the dynamics of codependency. We've discussed the topic about how codependency seems to always be associated with spiritual abuse before, but I've really never understood what codependency actually is and how it develops. At best, I was probably aware of a few of the symptoms of codependency. I had no idea how much of a catalyst codependency is to a spiritual abusive experience.

Codepency is a trait that is instilled in people coming from dysfunctional families. The dynamics of a dysfunctional family do not allow the child to develop his/her own identity and independence. Codependency is formed when the emotional problems of the parents become more important than those of the children. This does not allow a child to foster his/her own identity apart from the family, so they become codependent. Boundaries are blurred, and the child ends up worrying more about the emotions and feelings of others more than his/her own. This is where the compulsive/addictive nature begins. This is why when many of us found a dysfunctional, codependent church to join - we felt right at home. We gave away our rights as an individual to the pastor just like we did to our caregivers.

Just because we leave a spiritual abusive group does not mean that we have left codependency. Many of us are left with a huge identity crisis that feels like an empty vacuum in our souls. We feel lost. Because of codependency, our identities became emeshed with the purpose of the group. When we left the group, we left our new identity behind. Many of else went on to feeling left without a purpose or a cause in life. This is because our unformed identities were extremely vulnerable to outside influences. We were those walking around with a lost, lonely look in our eyes... wondering, looking for a cause and a purpose... an identity that we were not allowed to form when we were young children. When we found our group, we finally felt "whole". We had found our identity... or so we thought.

Can any of you identify with this? Have you ever wondered why some people have strong, invincible identities that are not easily influenced? Those are the ones who headed for the doors of our former groups as soon as they saw the codependent dynamics of the group. They saw the control, the brainwashing, the group acting codependent on the leader, the boundaries that were being violated, etc. They wanted no part of it. My former pastor labelled these people as "independent spirits" who were "unteachable".

When I look back at my childhood, I can see why my mother was not emotionally available. She was going through a divorce, and her aunt that she was very close to had committed suicide. My dad was an adoptee, who was a psychopathic criminal. He had codependency and attachment issues, and ended up in prison for 18 years. He treated my mom like a dog and then left us when I was two years old. I can see why my parents' emotional problems were more important than my developmental needs. My mother was trying to get from me what I was needing from her. This is where the codependency started. I was not allowed to form an interdependent identity apart from my family's problems. My mom has always been very emotionally needy - and I have always felt responsible to fix it for her.

This is probably why I have always worried about the feelings of others and treated them as more important than mine. I often feel unable to start and complete tasks or projects without the involvement of others. I'm still trying to find out who I am. I believe that this has been a cause of torment my entire life. This codependent identity crisis is what causes a person to become compulsive and addictive. It drove many of us to substance abuse. It also drove us to join an abusive church.

Any comments?

:cool:

[Voyager]

Here's a book review that someone wrote about the book I am reading entitled "Bradshaw on The Family" by John Bradshaw:

The central idea of Bradshaw's book is an interesting one: that in recent decades, psychological research has begun to focus on seeing the family as an emotional system, and that one can't just study an individual's psychological difficulties without seeing his or her role in the family & the family's interactions. Families each have their own unique culture which creates an emotional environment that children learn from & absorb. People growing up in healthy families become mature healthy people, who have their own identity & have a healthy separation from their family; they have learned that they are free to feel what they feel and express it even if it goes against the family "script," roles, or views. If there are disagreements, then people fight fairly, with nobody is trying to manipulate each other or use each other to satisfy unmet emotional needs.

Bradshaw then looks at the dynamics in dysfunctional families. He examines, in turn, families with alcoholics, families who are physically or emotionally abusive, and those that are co-dependent. These families may have problems with enmeshment, guilt, control, shame, family secrets, continuous fighting or no fighting because "wrong" emotions are forbidden. He highlights the fact that dysfunctional families often have dysfunctional kids, who then seek out, find, and marry other dysfunctional people (since they act in a familiar, though dysfunctional, way). In this way, certain family problems such as alcoholism, violence, and so on can be handed down across generations. Because of this, one should examine one's problems in the context of one's family, and always look for the "problem behind the problem" (i.e. ask what drives one to drink? Rather than just address alcoholism as an addiction). Bradshaw goes on to give a 12-step plan for recovery to escape this pattern. The 12-step program he outlines mimics the one that Alcoholics Anonymous uses (Bradshaw is himself a recovering alcoholic).

Overall, I found the book to have several pluses and minuses. On the plus side, I thoroughly enjoyed the first third of the book, which laid out the main idea that the family must be understood as a system. The rest of the book amplifies and repeats the ideas in the first third, then goes into detail about the dynamics in various dysfunctional families & recovery. These details seemed to be somewhat similar, redundant, and somewhat obvious, though they will probably resonate with those stuck in those particular situations. Next, one slightly annoying technique that Bradshaw uses is that he often spells out a phrase, then use each letter in that phrase to write a paragraph about a related idea (for example, F.A.M.I.L.Y => F=Feedback loops are important...; A=Autonomy is key...; M=Marriage is a chief Component of families....etc.). Also, Bradshaw seems to emphasize that "shame" is the root cause of almost every problem he describes; I thought that this oversimplifies the issues involved. Finally, the book seems (and is, I suppose) geared towards a mass audience, so it's not a deep psychological text and at times it seems to have some "pop psychology" elements. But as I said before, I thought the first third of the book was good & worth reading, since it covers the main ideas. The rest of the book, about recovery & specific situations of abuse, can be skimmed or read in depth if one particular family situation applies to you.

This sure seems to explain why many of us were drawn to codependent, shame-based religious groups. We felt right at home. The codependent dynamics of the group made our own codependent traits seem normal. The boundaries were blurred, and the "parent figure" (the pastor) demanded us to give up our opinions, our emotional needs, and our identities for their cause. We met their unmet emotional needs. They sucked the life out of us, and it felt normal. We were shamed, manipulated, and demeaned by the parent figure... and it seemed like a good thing. We were finally fulfilling our purpose in life. It felt so right, but somehow we knew it was wrong (or we would still be there).

Comments?

:cool:

[Voyager]

Here is another interesting Amazon.com reader review on the above-mentioned book:

This book saved my life! After years of counseling with therapists who were just counter-transferring their own unresolved issues onto me, Bradshaw helped me see the roots of my "mental illness" were from my upbringing in a patriarchal, totalitarian, authoritarin, rigid family & religious system. I was always made to feel by these systems that there was something defective about ME when, in actuallity, THEY were highly dysfunctional. In turn, that led me to seek therapy by therapists indoctrinated in these same systems. After realizing that going to my church for counseling was actually the antithesis of psycological & spiritual growth, I discovered the tools in Bradshaw's important work to heal myself. As a theologian, Bradshaw beautifully discerns the difference between spirituality & religion - that the more religious a person is, the less spiritual they are. That mature, spiritual people accept others just as they are & that religious people & systems narcissistically strive to create cookie-cutter people who act, think & believe that same way they do. I've come to the conclusion that every therapist I hired chose counseling as a way to avoid looking at their own issues. Receiving a different diagnosis from each therapist proves this to me. This comes without blame directed toward my primary caregivers as I realize that they were "mystified" by the same family & religious systems. I will never again look outside myself for approval. I honestly feel that Bradshaw's work (and the other psychologists he gives praise & credit to) is the most profound psychological & spiritual work of the 20th century. If you read this amazing book your life will never be the same. You will be unable to live your life the way you always have & it will change the way you see yourself & others forever. For the first time, I have made real, effective, positive changes in my life. My relationships are healthy & nurturing. I have self-esteem - something I thought was impossible. When friends & family comment on the amazing changes I've made in my life & ask how I did it, I don't say a thing. I just hand them a copy of this book.

:cool:

[Willow]

I can understand codependent behavior and see where I functioned codependently throughout my life. However... how does this feed into substance abuse?

[apike]

I saw this thread and thought that this is where the tire meets the road.

I am a recovering codependent and have been attending Coda meetings regularly.

Willow, the literature states that sometimes codependents use substance abuse as a way to deal with codependency.

Codependency is an addiction itself as much as any other one. Only I am addicted to people. I get my fix and my high from people's approval, making them happy, depending on their validation of me as a worthwhile person. In other words I am who someone says I am. Other's opinion of what I do and say means more to me than my own opinion of myself.

I left the staff of a church and can now see some of the dysfunction that exists.
Am having a hard time with the feelings of being seperated. It feels like I will be punished and die. I enjoyed the attention, prestige and playing a leader role.
I had a purpose and role to play and it is now gone. But at the time, I was dependent on someone else giving me that role. I felt cared about by the Pastor and wanted. My need for that feeling of being cared about led me to trust the pastor. I wanted to please him and let him lead me. I believed him and put him on a pedestal in a way. I also enmeshed with the church and they became my life. It's purposes my purposes. I really had no balance in my life. No wonder when it was gone I felt I had nothing else. I realized that it was a part of a process of loss and seperation. If I wanted to see if I was addicted to something, take it away and see how I feel.

It is my theory that I recognized the abuse when I started to keep myself separate and stand up for myself (being honest). It was other's lack of respect for me and their attempts to control me and my decisions that showed me it was abuse and manipulation. What I have had to do was learn to see my choices as good for me whether others like my choices or not. This is hard when the voice inside tries to give me self doubt and discouragement. In other words I choose to believe the things that push me down and immobilize me. Yes these abusive things happened to me but I also had a part in it taking place. I taught people how to treat me and it upset things when I started recovering

The good thing is I see how I put the pastor on a pedestal and when he fell off of it, I realized he was just another human being and it is insanity to let myself be led blindly by another person who didn't know any better than I do. Even tho he might demand I believe that he does.

It is good to question, it is good to wait and see if someone is trustworthy, it is good to trust my own perceptions. It is good to not give it all away to people. It is good to let God be God and not let other people be gods. Even God does not try to coerce or manipulate us into fulfilling His purposes.

I am really thankful for what I am learning here.

[ex-shep]

Dead on accurate. Paul Martin, director of Wellspring, along with REFocus and other professionals in the field did a conference on cults and codependency in 1988.

I can relate to worrying more what others feel about me than I for myself. Today I am really tough on myself when those thoughts arise. No, I do not beat myself up or shame myself. I have rock hard boundaries against the behavoir and I am not going to let it live in my head rent free. Of course some days are better than others.

Certainly abdication of self is paramount in the dysfunctional systems we came out of. My family and origin was a dead ringer for setting me up for my cult involvement. It was certainly true for Tammy. I was working a department store at the time. I had several customers who knew her and family in high school provide unsolicited comments. It certainly made sense to me. I was several years in recovery at that point.

[ex-shep]

I saw this thread and thought that this is where the tire meets the road.

I am a recovering codependent and have been attending Coda meetings regularly.

Congratulations in recognising the issues.


codependency is an addiction itself as much as any other one. Only I am addicted to people. I get my fix and my high from people's approval, making them happy, depending on their validation of me as a worthwhile person. In other words I am who someone says I am. Other's opinion of what I do and say means more to me than my own opinion of myself.

It has been a long time that I have been in the people pleasing. I used to obsess what others thought of me. Obviously I need to conduct my work duties in a professional manners and take care of the customers. There are some customers I cannot satisfy. It is there problem. There were co-workers who liked me and others who did not care for me. I am also powereless that my former groups think I am agent of Satan and a slanderer of the bretheren. I think Garfield had it right, "Big Fat Hairy Deal!!

I left the staff of a church and can now see some of the dysfunction that exists.
Am having a hard time with the feelings of being seperated. It feels like I will be punished and die. wanted to see if I was addicted to something, take it away and see how I feel.

Erasing the old tapes takes time. So does letting a post group identity. It evolves one day at time

It is my theory that I recognized the abuse when I started to keep myself separate and stand up for myself (being honest). It was other's lack of respect for me and their attempts to control me and my decisions that showed me it was abuse and manipulation. What I have had to do was learn to see my choices as good for me whether others like my choices or not. This is hard when the voice inside tries to give me self doubt and discouragement. In other words I choose to believe the things that push me down and immobilize me. Yes these abusive things happened to me but I also had a part in it taking place. I taught people how to treat me and it upset things when I started recovering


As is typical in shepherding groups the only reality is the group itself. In Tammy's group members would pray that the Lord would break an idependent spirit. Doubt was strictly of the devil. The stuffing of feeling is very common. Now the "fun" is feeling them.


The good thing is I see how I put the pastor on a pedestal and when he fell off of it, I realized he was just another human being and it is insanity to let myself be led blindly by another person who didn't know any better than I do. Even tho he might demand I believe that he does.

I am really careful. Interestingly the prayer at church has picked up on it too to pray for the one little corner that is know as "First Church"


It is good to question, it is good to wait and see if someone is trustworthy, it is good to trust my own perceptions. It is good to not give it all away to people. It is good to let God be God and not let other people be gods. Even God does not try to coerce or manipulate us into fulfilling His purposes.

I am really thankful for what I am learning here.[/QUOTE]

Excellent perceptions. Keep up the good work

[Illuminated]

It is my theory that I recognized the abuse when I started to keep myself separate and stand up for myself (being honest). It was other's lack of respect for me and their attempts to control me and my decisions that showed me it was abuse and manipulation. .

It is good to question, it is good to wait and see if someone is trustworthy, it is good to trust my own perceptions. It is good to not give it all away to people. It is good to let God be God and not let other people be gods. Even God does not try to coerce or manipulate us into fulfilling His purposes.
Wow! Andrea! I can really relate to your description of your experience. I understand how painful it is when the leaders fall off that pedestal. People tried to control me (it was acutally a cultic group I found out later) and when I didn't act perfectly, i.e. smiling all the time, they came after me, and kicked me out.

I think we should be proud of ourselves for recognising we were being abused, and for not letting it continue. It is so very traumatic though to stand up for what we think is right, and to be crushed by other supposedly Christians. When we are weak, He is strong.

I really think there is a spirit of abuse and control that is permeating the leadership rank in Christianity at this time. It is disgusting to hear of so much spiritual abuse. I guess part of our role is to try and expose it and put a stop to the cruelty and meanness that is affecting the lives of the saints.

[Voyager]

I was just thinking about how all my life I have felt that I have a sixth-sense ability to sense people's emotional state. I am usually accurately able to sense if someone is angry, sad, disgusted, close-minded, open-minded, etc. when I am around someone in person. They don't even have to speak. I always felt like this ability was an asset. It helped me very well in business, because I learned to sense the needs of others and meet them with a product or service.

However, this ability has not served me well in relationships. I find myself picking up on and worrying about the emotional states of others 24/7. My needs are not important. I believe that this "talent" is caused by being raised by a traumatized parent. Whether they went through a divorce, a traumatic loss, a disease, or whatever - their emotional needs were more important than those of the child. The child was expected to pick up on the hurts and emotional needs of the parent and console them - when the opposite should have been happening. Since the parent may have had no one else to console them, they try to get the child to do it. This is where I picked up this "talent".

I can see how this process can be the catalyst for codependency. Our parents didn't mean for it to happen. They probably loved and cared for us the best that they were emotionally available to do. It just wasn't enough to allow a child's individual developing identity to be formed apart from the emotional pain of the caregiver. We grew up learning how to pick up on the emotional needs of others, because they were more important than ours.

I thought some of you might find this interesting.

:cool:

[butterfly]

Wow! Andrea! I can really relate to your description of your experience. I understand how painful it is when the leaders fall off that pedestal. People tried to control me (it was acutally a cultic group I found out later) and when I didn't act perfectly, i.e. smiling all the time, they came after me, and kicked me out.

I think we should be proud of ourselves for recognising we were being abused, and for not letting it continue. It is so very traumatic though to stand up for what we think is right, and to be crushed by other supposedly Christians. When we are weak, He is strong.

I really think there is a spirit of abuse and control that is permeating the leadership rank in Christianity at this time. It is disgusting to hear of so much spiritual abuse. I guess part of our role is to try and expose it and put a stop to the cruelty and meanness that is affecting the lives of the saints.


. Apike and Illuminated
Wow you both have taken the words right out of my heart.
It sure does hurt. butterfly

[Willow]

This fits me to a tee Voyager. I still have to watch myself and make sure I take care of my own needs with my dad. I'm so worried about him that I forget that I suffered a loss too. I was my mom's confidant growing up. I also had to pick up on dad's moods to stay away when he was in a bad mood.


I was just thinking about how all my life I have felt that I have a sixth-sense ability to sense people's emotional state. I am usually accurately able to sense if someone is angry, sad, disgusted, close-minded, open-minded, etc. when I am around someone in person. They don't even have to speak. I always felt like this ability was an asset. It helped me very well in business, because I learned to sense the needs of others and meet them with a product or service.

However, this ability has not served me well in relationships. I find myself picking up on and worrying about the emotional states of others 24/7. My needs are not important. I believe that this "talent" is caused by being raised by a traumatized parent. Whether they went through a divorce, a traumatic loss, a disease, or whatever - their emotional needs were more important than those of the child. The child was expected to pick up on the hurts and emotional needs of the parent and console them - when the opposite should have been happening. Since the parent may have had no one else to console them, they try to get the child to do it. This is where I picked up this "talent".

I can see how this process can be the catalyst for codependency. Our parents didn't mean for it to happen. They probably loved and cared for us the best that they were emotionally available to do. It just wasn't enough to allow a child's individual developing identity to be formed apart from the emotional pain of the caregiver. We grew up learning how to pick up on the emotional needs of others, because they were more important than ours.

I thought some of you might find this interesting.

:cool:

[Carmen]

Living with an alcoholic parent always caused me to have my antenna out to find out which way the wind was blowing. That coupled with a terrible lack of being able to judge others' characters was a formula for failure. At least I can mostly compensate for the latter through learning from experience, but am still working on the former.

This part of the Amazon book review shocked me:
"I will never again look outside myself for approval." As far as people are concerned, I would agree with the writer. But what about God? If one has a personal relationship with Him (him being both within as the Holy Spirit and outside in heaven), shouldn't one be looking for His approval? I am assuming here that God's approval does not equal the pastor's, nor the church's.

[Sheep]

I was just thinking about how all my life I have felt that I have a sixth-sense ability to sense people's emotional state. I am usually accurately able to sense if someone is angry, sad, disgusted, close-minded, open-minded, etc. when I am around someone in person. They don't even have to speak. I always felt like this ability was an asset. It helped me very well in business, because I learned to sense the needs of others and meet them with a product or service.

However, this ability has not served me well in relationships. I find myself picking up on and worrying about the emotional states of others 24/7. My needs are not important. I believe that this "talent" is caused by being raised by a traumatized parent. Whether they went through a divorce, a traumatic loss, a disease, or whatever - their emotional needs were more important than those of the child. The child was expected to pick up on the hurts and emotional needs of the parent and console them - when the opposite should have been happening. Since the parent may have had no one else to console them, they try to get the child to do it. This is where I picked up this "talent".

I can see how this process can be the catalyst for codependency. Our parents didn't mean for it to happen. They probably loved and cared for us the best that they were emotionally available to do. It just wasn't enough to allow a child's individual developing identity to be formed apart from the emotional pain of the caregiver. We grew up learning how to pick up on the emotional needs of others, because they were more important than ours.

I thought some of you might find this interesting.

:cool:

Voyager,

Interesting?? I felt so humiliated after reading this! Maybe shame got triggered? It just plain sucks that I pick up on the emotional needs of others!! Do you have any suggestions on how to let go of this "talent"? Other than recognizing that I do this, and am trying to practice NOT doing it in my relationship with my husband, I am at a loss at to how one 'gets out of this'. Thanks for this thread...

Sheep :p

[newpal1]

Can any of you identify with this? Have you ever wondered why some people have strong, invincible identities that are not easily influenced? Those are the ones who headed for the doors of our former groups as soon as they saw the codependent dynamics of the group. They saw the control, the brainwashing, the group acting codependent on the leader, the boundaries that were being violated, etc. They wanted no part of it. My former pastor labelled these people as "independent spirits" who were "unteachable". [/I]

Haven't been here in quite sometime. Saw this from Voyager and had to respond. This, no question, is where I believe our greatest challenge is. I believe developing a healthy identity is where freedom begins and ends.

We hear it talked about all the time about our "identity in Christ." The problem is if you haven't had true healing of your damaged past, and are stuck in a spiritually abusive environment you will never know who you are in Christ; simply because a healthy image of Christ is not being properly conveyed.

I wanted to share that I have received some very good help from an organization called Grace Ministries International. They are a truly grace based organization and all their counseling is based upon leading you into a healthy understanding of who you are in Christ.

They have VanVonderen's books on their shelves for sale. i.e., "The Subtle Power of Spiriual Abuse", "Tired of Trying to Measure Up". etc. I cannot tell you how much they have helped. It is Christ Centered Counseling, and the atmosphere is one that is truly agape - unconditional love and acceptance - reagrdless of what you are dealing with.

If you don't have the money and can't afford it you go anyway. Flat on my back financially I had numerous sessions, couldn't pay, and I never had a strange look, was made to feel guilty, or had any pressure put on me whatsoever.

I truly learned how to forgive, and if there was anyway I could truly convey the freedom I have gained since I was led through that door I would do it. It was like a warden came over to a cell I was in, unlocked the door, and said you are free to go. It is without w\o question the most liberating thing I have ever done.

I also wanted to share that there have been some other amazing things that are happening to me. I have found a truly grace based, safe church. I have never experienced anything like it. I have almost had to pinch myself because I cannot believe it is true.

I have had some of my past hurts flare up, and conveyed some things that caused them to wonder what I was doing. I have gotten to know some of the main leaders very well.

When I explained to them that I have come from abusive churches they still were uncertain about what I was talking about. I then explained to them that when I had come to their church I was unconfortable because I was so comfortable.

You see I was in a truly grace based enviroment that does a very good job of conveying true agape love. Coming from abusive churches I was no different than a child coming from an abusive family and being placed into a family that wasn't abusive. It takes time to trust the system, and as a child does I was going to flare up, and lash out until I got comfortbale. I was looking for anything that would give me a reason to leave.

I found out I wasn't in an abusive system when I confronted them on things I wasn't made to feel like an idiot. They listened to what I was saying, looked deeper than the surface, and treated me with unconditional love and respect. In addition, they learned from what I taught them about spiritual abuse, and were glad they had been informed.

I have learned to trust them, and have come to love the church. Like I said it has been a wonderful experience, and I can't get enough of it. They listen to people, and try to learn from them. Are they perfect? Of course not! What they are is healthy, and listen to anyone without condemnation.

You know, Voyager's post talked about a dysfunctional past and how it affects the churches we stay stuck in. VanVonderen talks about this in his interview on the intro page to this site.

There is no question. And, if you really got to know the head leader in that system you would probably find that he has a unhealed dysfunctional past.

I had ministries that I had built in large churches. I built them from the ground up, wasn't paid a dime, and had them stolen from me from the leaders. Looking back it is amazing to think it even happened.

It was in a very large church in Ft. Lauderdale. If I told you who the head leader was you would probably all know him. It is totally performance based. So, anything they can get their hands own that enhances their "performance" they will do it - even if they have to steal it. Why? Because their worth and indentity is gained by what they do, not who they are in Christ.

Also, the "senior pastor" of this church came from a dysfunctional family with a father who was a sick, unrecovered alcoholic. I spoke with several of the "pastors" who were on staff there at the time and they said he was like a shark in a pool of red meat in staff meetings. Yet, you put him on the podium and he is a eloquent speaker, but he can't relate one on one.

While I was in this particular church I was going to take one of this man's sermons and turn it into a play. A friend of mine and I met with him in the hallway, and we were sitting down talking to him about what we were thinking about doing. All the sudden he stood up, walked toward the window, and stared out into space. He then walked off and back into his office without saying a word. It was the strangest thing you have ever seen. The man has severely unresolved issues, and yet has been able to build a "church" of 10,000, and the whole thing is a dysfunctional mess covered over with performance based religiosity. It's sick!

It is also well known that he has a world wide Evangelism program that was mainly written by someone else, yet he was unwilling to give any acknowledgement to the man's work, and usurped the whole thing.

Why did those pastors on staff stay there? Because they were sick too - came from homes where there was severe dysfunction, and they have never been lead into the healing that is necessary to truly enable them to be a truely balanced and gifted leader leading others into a healthy realtionship with Christ.

The amazing thing is I stayed in this denomination, and guess what I found out as I moved to other cities and stayed in those churches. You guessed it - same thing.

I was stupid enough to take a whole book of ministry ideas I had to another head "Pastor". He usurped the whole thing and now those ideas are being implemented throughout his denomination. I tell ya, people, there are some sick churches out there.

However, this time I am confronting and am going to bring it too light. You see I used to think that the healthy thing was to just let it go, let these people get away with it, and do it to others as well.

Well, would it be right to let some way get away with rape?! No way! Well, I have spent years coming out from under the smudge, dirt, and ugly grime of abuse in churches that VanVonderen likens to incest. I see the correlation now more clearly than ever.

Back to the point - where this second thievery of my ministry ideas took place. The leader, here, has deep unresolved issues with his father. His father had left them when he was young, and he openly admits he has never forgiven the man. You can’t lead effectively with that in your life - he stole my stuff, and has never acknowledged me.

Why did I get in those churches and stay there? Because I came up in a dysfunctional home. My dad was a full fledged anti social recluse, and I was always trying to get approval because he didn’t take an interest in me. So, I was drawn to performance based churches.

Finally, through grace based and Christ centered counseling I was lead to forgiveness of my father, others, and myself, and simultaneously led to a grace based church.

Now, I am in a church that where the head leader has a very healthy, strong, and balanced father. A father he was always close to, and mentored by. He is humble, kind, considerate, decent, helpful, and forgiving. So, that is what flows down to his congregation.

I have sent him numerous E-mails, and when a response was needed – he always gets back to me. When I “flared up” because I thought I was being abused again he didn’t ignore me – he got back to me, and we were able to clear up the misunderstanding. When he is criticized he doesn’t get defensive, and humbly tries to give an explanation for why he is doing things the way he is. He has sought forgiveness for things he may have done wrong. He is malleable and has a strong sense of unconditional love, and that personality flows down into his church.

Wow, that’s enough for right now. Hadn’t been here in awhile and thought I would share what has been going on.

And, again, I am going to do my best not to let the abusers get away with what they have done, and keep doing what they have been doing. I am seeking to hold them accountable, and have already done some things that has gained the attention of their denomination.

[newpal1]

Add on to former post - You know it just hit me. I remember Voyager explaining how he had held an abusive church accountable for their abuse. It took a great deal of work, but he brought it to light, and caused a lot of other people from being further abused.

Way to go Voyager![/COLOR]