Who is God?

[Traveller]

Dealing with a heavy load of stuff lately, now getting (again ...) to the big question: who and/or what is God?

I'm guessing most of us here probably know very well who He is NOT, then who IS He? To you?

[Jerry]

God is a Totality Incaporial Force of Intellect,capable of calling an entire Universe into existance by the sheer force of His will...................:D Isn't it funny how we on occation will arogantly state that God just doesn't understand ......The absurdity of the statement is astounding :D
Love Jerry
Pure Quantom Energy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The Whole excedes the sum of Its parts ............

[Reg]

Great question Traveller. When you feel up to it let us get to know a bit about you.

God is my Holy Loving Father who I can totally trust in His Love. He is Supreme in all of His creation which I am a part of. I have never known my earthly father, but now knowing my Heavenly Father, I know I am loved and taken care of.

[SpinningHead]

I've always thought of God as an extreme loving being encompassing everything good and power. At the same time, I also think He cares about what kind of toothpaste I use. Not that He has an opinion about what brank, just that He cares.

[Willow]

God is the ultimate creative force. The world exists because there is a God. Looking at the beauty in the world... the unspoiled parts... tells me that God cares about pleasure. Experiencing the full range of emotions that people and even animals exhibit tells me that God is feeling. Seeing how self-contained the earth system is... everything fits together and all have something to eat and some way to survive... tells me that God is methodical and well organized. Seeing the evil and cruelty in the world shows me that God has a dark side... or at least allows a dark side to express itself freely. My Dad believes that God created the world to run on it's own and that God is not too involved in the every day mechanics of it all. I guess he's an agnostic. Me? I have experienced things that I consider interventions of divine nature. I believe God is more involved in the daily operations than my dad does.

[Forsaken]

Wow, what a question.

Maybe God is anything that people want him/her/it to be, and everything that we have not even thought he/she/it could be.

I simply don't want to describe God in any mortal and limited attempt to captivate the understanding of God.

What I could say, is I think that if a million people came to this forum and gave their genuine answer, all of those answers would be correct .

[Voyager]

Is the question "Who is God?", or is it "Who do you want God to be?"?

I was taught that God was everything that the Bible said He was. Now I question all of that.

I don't want God to be an angry murderer, but that is what the Bible portrays Him to be. I don't want a God who commands His people to murder gays, non-virgins, people of other religions, fortune tellers, and adulterers - but that is what the Bible says He did in the Old Testament. I don't want a God that wipes out entire cities due to His wrath, but the Bible says that He did. I don't want a God who throws people in a lake of fire for eternity to torment them for disobeying Him, but that's how the Bible portrays Him. Some people say God has changed since He did all of that and that He is much nicer now, but the Bible says that God never changes - He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Which should I believe?

How do I even know the Bible is "God's Word"? Just because some people told me it was? They said, "Believe what these men wrote, because they were hearing directly from God." Then my former pastor said, "Believe what I say, because I am hearing directly from God." No thank you. I am done listening to men and women who say they are speaking for God. Been there, done that, had my life destroyed over it. Once bitten, twice shy. The first time it was their fault - the next time it will be my fault.

So, I really don't know who God is. I know what I want God to be: A merciful, loving, caring, all-powerful being who cares for, protects, and guides His children. However, after giving my life to Him and following what I believed to be His direction, my life was all but destroyed. I trusted Him with everything, and I was deceived and duped. I trusted "His people", and they all betrayed me. Therefore I can no longer trust anymore. My truster is broken. I should have never gave myself away like that, because you cannot get yourself back. Part of me that I gave away can never be retrieved.

Who is God? To be honest with you, I would rather dodge that question and never try to figure it out anymore. It only leads to more grief and confusion. You're probably wishing now that you wouldn't have asked, but I am just being honest.

:cool:

[Willow]

Gosh... I went back and read my post and it seems so definitive. Like I really can say who god is?? LOL!

I have to tell you all that I've narrowed my view of God to a very basic realization that the universe is intelligently designed. I can't even prove that, but God's existence seems the best answer to me at this moment.

[hornblower]

Ok big question not much matza balls left in me this morning. I know several things about this question. One answer is God is not who we think He is. God is who He says He is. I cant tell you who God is anymore than I can tell you who you are because I dont know every single thing about you and even if I did I wouldnt be YOU.
One thing is for sure, I am not God. I do talk to Him sometimes. He is what the bible says about Him but for us to understand what that all means, the bible in its entirety, now that is the hard part because we are so limited in our understanding.

Thats why Jesus came was to try to show us who God really is. Even so, I cant totally know Jesus because Jesus was and is God. God was and is inside of Him. He was God with a suit of flesh on.

For those of us that believe the story, the story being that Jesus came here to rescue us, we have God living in us too. We though, do not obey that Spiritual side enough for any of us to be totally God in the flesh like Jesus was. Jesus was perfect.

The old testament is there to show us who God was according to what they believed He was. If you really read it with an idea of what is God trying to show me in this??????? It takes on new meaning.
The bible is not just any old book. Its a letter to us, its personal. I think the mistake people make is to not see it that way. We will never know really much at all until we see Him and know Him as He really is. Its a walk of faith and that faith is not going to be placed on people. People sin, pure and simple. Weve all experienced what it can do to us when people in churches use God to hurt us.

I experienced true Godliness from Him and Him alone when I forgot everything the bible said and just concentrated on one verse. "God is good..........God is love". The bible says that, then it was up to me to hear that love and goodness and then do it too and receive it from Him.
I have only one thing to say about the old testament that stands out to me and I have no true understanding ok? I sure dont understand all of it.

I know one thing if someone murdered my child or raped me or my daughter, tortured my son, burned my children in fire for a piece of stone. I would want some force in this world to get p---- off,

Justice in my mind is very lacking in religion these days. Now maybe you and others dont want to see any justice. I agree I dont want justice that isnt a right justice but yes I do want some justice I admit it I honestly truely do want some and it hurts me that people dont see that we need it.
Most of those countries back then were doing just that, murdering their own children for idols.
I still dont get the mass murdering and maybe I never will. All I know is that when Jesus came and He was supposed to be the truth, He died for us, and He didnt have too.
I would not believe in the old testament if that was all there was. If it didnt have the new with it I wouldnt believe it. If I did I would be Jewish not a Christian. I am a believer in Jesus, I believe that Jesus is God Himself in the flesh. When I read about Him and what He did I get super turned on. I love Him braiding that whip and whipping the money changers out of that temple!!!!!!! Woohooo!!!!!!!:D
Thats God!

[Traveller]

You're probably wishing now that you wouldn't have asked, but I am just being honest.

:cool:

I VALUE your honesty, Voyager ...

Two weeks ago I threw away my Bible, the one I've used over the last 10 years or so. Drove across the bridge and threw it down into the canal (dug 2000 years ago by the Romans, talking about history confronting itself). Walked back to the car, said something like "..... you, God!" and went home. I think it's the best thing I've ever done. Done away with religion and man's understanding of who God is.

Now I'm left with the sheer knowledge that God simply is. Infinite, complete. I'm covered with His fingerprints and therefore CANNOT deny Him. Beyond this I dare not go, I too have no trust whatsoever left in me. But the question remains, it gnaws away inside.

And so I'm asking again: who is God?

[Voyager]

I believe that this world and the universe had to be created by an intelligent being. But when I read about how barbaric, angry, bigoted, and cruel the god of the Old Testament was, I have a hard time believing that they are one in the same. My guess is that the men who wrote the Bible simply portrayed God as how they saw him based on their culture (which was very barbaric and cruel at the time).

I guess you could call me an agnostic now. That means I want to believe in a god, but I have no proof that one exists. I used to be a Bible-believing Christian. Now I find myself questioning the Bible and everything I was ever taught in my former abusive church. I never meant for this to happen. I planned to stay in my church and believe in the Bible until the "rapture" took place. But then the abuse happened, and everything changed. The abuse made me start thinking for myself and questioning things.

Who is God? I'm really not sure. If you find out, please let me know.

:cool:

[Willow]

Traveller,

I also think what you did in throwing the bible overboard was very cathartic. It gives you the opportunity to start from a clean slate. I like it a lot! I don't think God was offended either. Of course then again... who knows the mind of God?

[butterfly]

Thank you , Willow and Traveller for you posts.
I have always wanted to throw my bible away. Not because I hate GOd or his word.
I don"t read it because it has to many memories of the SA I went threw. If I throw it away it will be to free me so I can start over again. I will not ever ever use it so why keep it.
I can buy a new one to start over again if I wish.:D Thanks for helping me see what my bible means to me.
The God in that bible is evil he isn"t the one I first trusted. butterfly

[butterfly]

When I was first saved GOd was real to me. The Holy Spirit realy touched my heart. Not in church but in my own home. I desired to have Godin my life.
All was good when it was Him and me alone.
Then I went to church and GOd turened into a mean evil, hatefull God. A God where I had to be perfect for Him to be pleased.
My GOd is with me somewhere down deep inside me.
On the surface the evil God is still eating me away alive.
I get angry because my God didn"t stop the other one.
He didn"t protect me from the evil christians. He allowed more abuse to be put on me.
Did he do it so I could help someone else? Or because I am just a number of so many people who have been SA.
You know we didn"t have a chance did we? Us who have been SA.
We had no clue trusting something that should of been good was so evil. That the word of GOd and who they say He is could destroy us .butterfly

[Kat]

When I was first saved GOd was real to me. The Holy Spirit realy touched my heart. Not in church but in my own home. I desired to have Godin my life.
All was good when it was Him and me alone.
Then I went to church and GOd turened into a mean evil, hatefull God. A God where I had to be perfect for Him to be pleased.
My GOd is with me somewhere down deep inside me.
On the surface the evil God is still eating me away alive.
I get angry because my God didn"t stop the other one.
He didn"t protect me from the evil christians. He allowed more abuse to be put on me.
Did he do it so I could help someone else? Or because I am just a number of so many people who have been SA.
You know we didn"t have a chance did we? Us who have been SA.
We had no clue trusting something that should of been good was so evil. That the word of GOd and who they say He is could destroy us .butterfly


You know Butterfly I was just thinking about what you wrote and it pretty much sums up my experience as well, but then a thought came to me. Didn't Jesus suffer the same abuse from the hands of the very religious and rightous too? Is it possible that those who think they are so Godly will one day hear those words, "Depart from me for I never knew you"? Also were not the early Christians beaten and killed because of the religious people of their day? It's just possible that those in church who think they have it all together actually don't. Food for thought anyway.

[Illuminated]

Did he do it so I could help someone else? Or because I am just a number of so many people who have been SA.
You know we didn"t have a chance did we? Us who have been SA.
We had no clue trusting something that should of been good was so evil. That the word of GOd and who they say He is could destroy us .butterfly
When I look back over my recovery process, I realise that what I should have realised from the beginning is this:
No one ever said being a Christian is easy. The scripture never says take up the cross and follow me to Disneyland. I believe that we suffer in order to promote growth in our Christian life. I believe He will use our experiences to affect change in systems that are not Biblical. I believe we have no one to fear and I think we should talk in public about what happened to us, and fight to remove those in positions of authority who were cruel to us.

Jesus was vocal when he saw wrong. He didn't just live with it and forget it. He got out the whip!

I believe Butterfly, that you have suffered so you can help someone else, just as you wrote.

Whenever I start feeling sorry for myself, I make myself realise that no matter how much I suffer, Jesus suffered much more than me when He died on the cross for me. That thought allows me to get the correct perspective on the situation.
Butterfly, I am so glad that I 'met' you throught this forum! Remember - whom shall I fear?

[butterfly]

:) Thank you Illuminated I am glad I have met you to.
I to feel that those christians should be exposed.
I wonder who would beleave us? I never thought that kind of abuse would come from Christians in church.
We can be a voice to the abused. One by one we form a support system to help the next one who comes along. butterfly

[Illuminated]

:) I wonder who would beleave us? I never thought that kind of abuse would come from Christians in church.I wonder that also. :confused: But, it really doesn't matter, if what we say is the truth!

I was fortunate to find a Christian counselor who was sympathetic to what I was telling her, and was willing to listen to details about my situation. She eventually expressed her sorrow at what had happened to me, and validated my experiences there by saying "There have been wrongs committed against you!" I realised I wasn't going crazy when she said that.

My husband has also been helpful in relating to me many instances of Christians abusing other Christians. Its really a sad circumstance to know that Christians can be so cruel to each other. I can't but help think that the deliverers of the abuse need deliverance themselves.:o

You are so right when you say "it wasn't their fault". Wish that thought made it easier to feel better about the situations! ;)

Have you thought of how you might expose your abusers?:confused:

[butterfly]

:) Welcome Kat :)
Your post had a very good view on how Jesus and the early christians were abused.
I forget that sometimes because the view of Jesus in the church isn"t the same Jesus of the Bible. Well not with my Ex- christian friends their Jesus is not loving and very forgiving. Those christians don"t draw people to Him they drive people away. butterfly

[Kat]

:) Welcome Kat :)

I forget that sometimes because the view of Jesus in the church isn"t the same Jesus of the Bible. Well not with my Ex- christian friends their Jesus is not loving and very forgiving. Those christians don"t draw people to Him they drive people away. butterfly

Exactly. I don't recognize their Jesus either.

[hornblower]

You know Im realising something. I dont think I have this problem with my abuse. I dont take out what those people did to me on the bible. I dont think in any way, in my case, that the bible or God or Jesus had anything to do with why this happened to me.
I just think these people were stupid. lol sorry. I know thats not a very good thing to say, but its true, they were stupid. They see Christianity, one way. Their way or the highway. They wanted me to fit in with their plan. I dont know if they knew that or not, but thats what happened and it was stupid of them. I know I helped a lot of people there to believe and in a much healtheir way. Its so their loss not having me any more. Not only that, but others that they did the same or similar things too and they left. They were very good people and its a shame. What a waste.
No what bothers me is what I did. I didnt stick it out and Im not completley sure that I shouldnt have kept on fighting to stay afloat. I got so tired. It was just too much for me and I started thinking all along really that I needed more. I needed some pastor that could be caring instead of that guy. He knew he shouldnt be a pastor he made no bones about it. I felt like I let Jesus down because I couldnt be what I thought I could be. I thought I was stronger and I wasnt. Im ashamed of what I was when it happened to me. I think I was being puffed up and they just shot me flat!
It wasnt really them to me it was the enemy of us all that did it Ive always known that. Because of that I can forgive to a certain extent but I cant ever go back because to me. I will never sit under some idiot that thinks hes better than the rest of us ever again. No way! Maybe he doesnt feel that way I dont know and it really doesnt matter to me what he feels.
Heres the thing when a pastor takes on this responsibility I dont expect them to be perfect but when they dont do right I do expect them to ackowledge it openly. Then I will trust them again.
By the way I do know two pastors like that. Theyve had their jobs taken away from them. They didnt bring in the numbers I guess. I dont know its the methodist church and with them your here one minute, gone the next. Crazy the whole system is too weird.
Its not the way it says its supposed to be in the bible. At all.
Anyway to me church systems and the God in the bible are all a seperate issues entirely. I dont have any problems with the bible at all or God. He loves me, and He's the only one that knows how too. If it werent for Him Id be dead a long time ago and so would my daughter.:o

[Forsaken]

I think one of the reasons that I find this is a hard question to answer is that I have a fear of accidently misguiding people from their own personal journey with God. Interestingly, something that Willow said earlier, made me contemplate something similiar, that if someone is guided by God, how could I possibly misguide them? Who am I to oppose what God's wisdom reveals to another.

I have really done my head in trying to define God.. it's strange, it's like the answer is both complex and simple. I still however search continously - knowing that on some internal level, I already know who he/she/it is! I think that God drives me to search sometimes because the process itself teaches me constantly, if nothing more than reinforcing that God existance is known in an infinate amount of different ways for other people. I feel that simply accepting that God reveals himself to other people in different ways just isn't enough. I have to understand that it is the same God working for them as well. And that what they recieve as their truth, although different to mine, is as equally valid.. and as such, becomes a part of my truth. (I did say I do my head in, didn't I)

Some ten or so years ago, I can recall an incident where I felt completely aware of God. I guess it is one of those miracle type events that happen.

I was driving my sister and I home from somewhere and as we reached a cross intersection, the traffic lights suddenly changed from green, then amber to red causing me to brake and stop very rapidly. As I stopped, another car passed very fast, from my right to the left across the intersection, clearly speeding much faster than the speed limit. My sister and I both commented on his speed. (Why was he travelling that fast if he was coming from a set of red lights that would of just changed to green) I looked up to my set of lights to see that *they* were green?? and at that moment, they went amber and red again. I remember I said to my sister, "Why did I stop at a green light?" I was confused intially.. and we both became silent.. As I waited for my lights to go green again, I became very aware of the fact that our lives had just been saved. Had I not stopped when I did, the car flying through across our path would of hit us. I remember a tingling sensation at that point in time, of both peace, wonder and awe inspiring power. There was an atmosphere within the car that is just so difficult to explain.

I feel that I have been lucky sense God like this on quite a few occassions.

[butterfly]

:) Hornblower, I don"t hate God or His word because of the abuse. I know it isn"t His fault.
Why I have a hard time with the Bible is because my abusers use Gods Word to abuse me. With their twisted minds using Gods Word they strangeled me with it.
The Bible I have brings back to many memories and heartaches. They used Gods Word also to crush crush my spirit.
Hearing Gods Word also is like pouring poisin onto a raw sore and that sore is my heart. When I hear Gods word being preached at someone it makes me sick to my stomach. To me they used Gods word to kill not to heal a broken heart. butterfly

[Jerry]

When I feed my dog,,,,,,,he thinks I am God.................When I feed my cat,,,,he thinks HE is God,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,guess it comes down to a point of view :D

[hornblower]

Im so sorry that the spiritual abuse has done that to you butterfly. I have some of this problem also I think at least. I know sometimes it makes me sick to my stomach so I know what you are talking about. You know what I think that is that makes me sick? I think its religion.
To me there is a huge difference between going to church reading the bible or listening to someone preach and it is almost like well, a spirit of religion. I know this doesnt make much sense but somehow thats how it plays out to me.
Like today, I was tired and I like to eat my lunch while I watch some tv. I turned it on and there was this preacher yelling.
All kinds of feelings hit me.
I felt sick, nauseated. Then I felt guilty because right away I wanted to switch the channel to something else and I felt angry too because I wanted the stupid thing to be on another channel in the first place so I wouldnt have to deal with all of this. Lol
Then I heard a little bit of what he was saying. He was using my verse of scripture that the Lord had shown me years ago when I went to that church. Before I went actually. It was about John and how John always said he was the desciple Jesus loved. Ok so I thought to myself well well well, its about time. Now theyve finally gotten what Ive been saying all along. John had a revelation that he was loved! John knew that everybody was loved by God but thats not why he kept saying that. He said that because Jesus had shown Him how much He loves him. I had the same thing happen to me. I was different. When you go somewhere and are someone different its going to happen.
Anyway the point is I listened for awhile until I started getting sick again and then I got so sick I had to turn it off.
Maybe Im wrong but I dont think its even the preaching that is making me sick. I think its religion making me sick.
For me, Jesus is reality not a religion. The world is full of religion, its everywhere. Plenty of people do it believe in it want it use it and abuse it, whatever. Its just a system. A business.
God isnt a religion, Hes real! Hes like you and me, only Hes God. Hes God with a flesh suit on. He talks like we do He walks like we do..........He dies like we do, when Hes got the flesh suit on. The only difference is that when He dies He gets born again and lives...........like we are going to do cause we believe in Him.
Now people that are busy doing religion...................they arent doing reality, they arent doing the God thing any more.
The pastors wife that hurt me so much........she wanted me to be somebody that she thought I should be...........she didnt understand me being just plain me.
God doesnt go to highschool and play games like popularity and join fraternities and sororities and vote and stuff. God loves me and He sets me free to be honest and to be who I am, just like He is who He is, and He cant change that and He wont change it either.
What Im saying is that its good that you get sick. Yeah I think it is because you dont want to be religious. You shouldnt want to be religious. You should want to be no one other than you, yourself. The way God loves you being you. The way God made you to be................dont change a hair for Him ok, 'cause He loves you the way you are.
They didnt because I dont think they knew or know God. Maybe anyway they dont. They sure didnt know Him when they did anything that would hurt you. Because God is LOVE! Because God is good and God doesnt do things like that. Now maybe theyd like to make it complicated............but really its not complicated.
Jesus went through the same thing with religion, in fact it was religion that crucified Him and thats exactly what it did to us.
Thats all Im saying.
and I love you too. Im so sorry I dont make myself very clear sometimes. The church I went too didnt even use the word of God to hurt me. They used my daughter's illness and my own feelings to hurt me. They are just ignorant thats all.

[hornblower]

OK butterfly, I went back and reread ALL of the posts and I think I understand now what you mean.
I definitely have had that thing happen to me in my own SA about the God that didnt protect me from them. Yeah I am mad about that and everytime it happens I get mad at Him. Its very hard to understand that He is a "good" Daddy to us when He lets these things happen to us. Coming from a sexual abuse background also I always have a hard time with this.........basically I want a fantasy world. Where the bad guys get it and usens (us good guys) dont! ha! My thoughts on this though are its still not Him making it be that way its them its the way they arent doing what they should be doing. If God didnt let them have a free choice and made them robots then He would have to make me one too and Hes not going to do that.
What it comes down too is I have to get it on as best as I can and start growing up. Growing up here implies not living in my little fantasy world but living down here where it sucks. Jesus said If you do not hate your own life you are not worthy of Me. People dont want to read that scripture in church for fear someone will use it to commit suicide. Whatever. In any case its definitely the way I feel. You are so like me in that the God we knew before we went to church. Hes the ONE! Hes real butterfly, you know Him as I do. He loves us and we have each other here at least. We have fellowship here thats something isnt it?
I just hate what happened to us thats all.
I do have that one experience of a good church to fall back on. It was just this tiny little place full of healing for me. A family. They were far from being perfect but I could be me. When I look back on it though I really think Jesus Himself did that for me to show me that its possible to have a real something you call church. Well as usual I wrote way too much you guys must be sick of me.
I hope you'all understand what Im trying to say.
In truth I sort of faced it this morning, I chickened out over and over again at that church. I didnt stand up for what I believed in near enough. So anyway now I feel ashamed that I couldnt go through with it. I couldnt be.........do you know what I mean? I just couldnt take it any more. I couldnt go through with the silly fighting and playing their dumb games.
Truth. I didnt love them enough! I dont know if I ever will love enough any more or if I ever did.
I didnt love them enough to take it and overcome it if that was possible and Im pretty sure it would have been.
What she said to me for some reason that did it in my book. I loved my daughter and think of it as almost holy what happened to her. Its like a place where a sacrifice or something was made and for someone to make light of it.................ggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr! Only God can show em! Let them walk in my shoes. I thought about it big time. I know God never lets us go through something for nothing. So I ended up praying for them. Not because I loved them. Because I loved their children. It wouldnt be fair to have their children suffer for what they did to me.
See they didnt hurt my daughter they hurt me.
Oh Lord Ill never understand it all............Id better get going to the dumb grocery store.:rolleyes: