Similarities: SA Victims and Katrina Victims

[Voyager]

MSNBC
Updated: 7:32 p.m. ET March 16, 2006

After the storm, depression settles in
Plagued by nightmares, insomnia, Katrina's refugees struggle for stability

CHICAGO - When William Villavaso closes his eyes, the nightmare is waiting for him — the one about the 15 hours he spent in water slick with diesel fuel in New Orleans, a life jacket and a chunk of wood keeping him afloat until he was rescued.

Six months after losing his home and his possessions to Hurricane Katrina, the 49-year-old New Orleans native is now living in Chicago, where he has been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and wakes up from bad dreams in a cold sweat.

On a scale from 1 to 10 — 10 being well — Villavaso says that emotionally, “right now I’m probably a 2.”

“I hope to have normalcy again in my life,” says Villavaso, who is trying to battle his depression at group counseling. “I’m just hoping for that stability.”

As many as 500,000 Katrina evacuees around the country may need mental health counseling, according to the U.S. Substance and Mental Health Services Administration. And while Villavaso is getting help, the government says many others are not, and may not even know they need it.

Several states that took in evacuees are recognizing the problem, changing their focus from providing housing and jobs to offering counseling and emotional support.

In Illinois, about 20 counselors are tracking down approximately 7,000 evacuees, and officials are referring them to professionals.

“We know that there’s several stages of emotional crisis that people go through,” says Carol Adams, Illinois’ human services secretary. “Right now, people are in the stage when they realize things won’t work out quite how they thought.”

People like 46-year-old Reginald Lucien, who like Villavaso came to Chicago from New Orleans’ devastated Ninth Ward.

“When I first came to Chicago I thought it was easy to cope, I never questioned it,” he says. “As time goes along I come to the realization that this is where I’ll be for some time, it gets harder. I get anxious.”

Dr. Anthony Ng, chair of the American Psychiatric Association’s Committee on Psychiatric Dimensions of Disasters says Katrina evacuees run the risk of such problems as depression, recurring nightmares and drug and alcohol abuse.

“When people are talking about post-traumatic stress disorder, they usually talk about something like a plane crash, but this is more complicated than usual,” Ng says. “What makes Katrina different is the scale of the disaster and the length of time people went through it.”

Katrina struck the Gulf Coast on Aug. 29, breaching levees and submerging 80 percent of New Orleans. It killed more than 1,300 people, most of them in Louisiana, and caused over $200 billion in damage. Hundreds of thousands of people were forced from their homes.

At first, evacuees “had sort of a honeymoon phase, when the assets, the Red Cross and volunteers are rolling in,” says J.W. Holcomb, coordinator of mental health disaster response for the Illinois Division of Mental Health. “But just now they’re coming to grips with the fact that, ‘Hey, I’m no better than I was before. I’ll never get back my picture of Grandma or my high school yearbook. And I’m in a strange place.”’

To help evacuees handle the stress, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration and the Federal Emergency Management Agency have given states more than $67 million, including a $19.2 million grant announced this month.

The grant will go toward local mental health programs for Illinois, Texas, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Missouri and Colorado. Texas — which received the largest share of the evacuees — will get most of the latest grant, about $12.1 million.

Almaz Oko, a Miami resident who came to Chicago after Hurricane Andrew destroyed her home in 1992, says Katrina’s victims face a long recovery. She says she still suffers from insomnia and flashbacks.

“You’ll be in the grocery store and you’ll bust out crying and you’re not sure why,” says Oko, who helped process Katrina evacuees in Chicago for the Red Cross. “I also went through a hoarding stage when I just wanted to buy, buy, buy. I guess I was trying to buy back what I lost, to fill the hole.”

Right after Katrina hit, I knew these folks would suffer PTSD. The losses they suffered were similar to the losses that many of us suffered: Loss of life investment, loss of friends, loss of familiar surroundings, loss of purpose, etc. Personally, I believe that the losses I suffered when leaving my former church were more psychologically damaging than the spiritual abuse itself.

:cool:

[Voyager]

Do you have any symptoms of PTSD? The one I struggle with the most is lack of motivation.

:cool:

[Willow]

Hi Voyager, I do struggle with PTSD. There's no doubt in my mind that spiritual abuse compounded it... although childhood trauma initiated it. I have a huge problem with anxiety. I try to control it via high energy activities. I also tend a little on the OCD side of the spectrum. Both are considered anxiety disorders.

I think my mom's suicide may in part have been triggered by hurricane Katrina. Although they did not suffer a direct hit in Baton Rouge... the chaos and consequences were all around them. Then the chaos and intense work of moving and moving away from all the people, things, environment that she knew and held dear. Well... it was way too much. PTSD/OCD killed my mom :(

[Pinkie Pie]

Do you have any symptoms of PTSD? The one I struggle with the most is lack of motivation.

:cool:

I'm interested in a response to this question too, because I have struggled a LOT with lack of motivation. Almost like, "What's the point?" hovering over me all the time.

[Sheep]

Hey, Voyager. I too, struggle with PTSD symptoms. What Willow said about childhood trauma initiating it, but spiritual abuse compounding it very much describes me. It's interesting to observe that many families that left a spiritually abusive church my husband and I had attended for six years ended up with depression. I know of a few women that went into a severe depression, including me. I struggle with depression and anxiety and fatigue.

Sheep

[mary]

I'm interested in a response to this question too, because I have struggled a LOT with lack of motivation. Almost like, "What's the point?" hovering over me all the time.

I, too, struggle with that; I find my answers in Galatians 2:20, John 3:30 and Romans 8... It's all about our Lord Jesus Christ.

I do believe that all suffering for His sake, for the sake of righteousness and for truth, will be rewarded. Quite possibly, it will be rewarded on this earth, but most definitely it will be so in eternity. He's promised to wipe away every tear, and just as we can count on the fact that that empty tomb really happened, so can we count on that...

Love to all,

mary

[Illuminated]

Right after Katrina hit, I knew these folks would suffer PTSD. The losses they suffered were similar to the losses that many of us suffered: Loss of life investment, loss of friends, loss of familiar surroundings, loss of purpose, etc. Personally, I believe that the losses I suffered when leaving my former church were more psychologically damaging than the spiritual abuse itself.

For a few weeks I served as a volunteer on a FEMA team that was helping the evacuees move from motels to permanent housing in San Antonio, Texas. You would not believe the situations I saw. The people we saw were some of the last to have to move, and they were basically uncapable of making decisions or taking action for themselves. I was able to work for only two weeks, because I myself was recovering from the abusive experience on the mission field, and I could relate to the evacuee's not being able to deal with every day life. Two weeks was all I could handle emotionally because I could see myself in them. That was before I was diagnosed with PTSD.

One woman I helped was completely out of it. I spent 8 hours waiting with her in a mental health clinic to get her into the public health system in San Antonio. She had been treated for schizophrenia 10 years ago, and her experience with Katrina had caused the disease to resurface. She was a prostitute and she was adament about not wanting to go back to New Orleans and not wanting to continue her work as a prostitute. She switched again and again from babbling incomprehensibly to quoting scripture lucidly. You would not believe the incidents she related about Katrina and the aftermath. I didn't know whether to believe her or not. There but for the grace of God go I!

The pyschological field has determined that there is going to be a different sub-category of PTSD that develops out of the hurricane survivors' experiences. They are finding that there is a category of people who are affected in a little bit different way than other PTSD sufferers.

The people in that category have this experience:

They prepared for the coming storm.
They chose to stay and ride out the storm.
At one point during the storm they thought they would not survive.
No matter how they prepared, they still lost everything.

So, I am wondering how you all think that those four elements might relate to our experiences with spiritual abuse situations and the consequential PTSD?

[Voyager]

---

[Voyager]

“You’ll be in the grocery store and you’ll bust out crying and you’re not sure why,” says Oko, who helped process Katrina evacuees in Chicago for the Red Cross. “I also went through a hoarding stage when I just wanted to buy, buy, buy. I guess I was trying to buy back what I lost, to fill the hole.”
I think that's where my lack of motivation comes from. It's like the loss I suffered was so great, and nothing I could do would bring it back. I invested my whole life into something, and lost it all. All the friends who I thought loved me are gone. The cause that I had invested my entire life into for 12 years turned out to be a fraud. Trying to re-motivate myself after these losses is very difficult. You develop a "no care" attitude because all your attempts at replacing your losses come up empty-handed. No matter how hard you try, it seem hopeless to gain back what was lost. It's like a big part of me died, and cannot be resurrected. So you just want to give up.

Does anyone else deal with this?

:cool:

[Voyager]

The people in that category have this experience:

They prepared for the coming storm.
They chose to stay and ride out the storm.
At one point during the storm they thought they would not survive.
No matter how they prepared, they still lost everything.

So, I am wondering how you all think that those four elements might relate to our experiences with spiritual abuse situations and the consequential PTSD?
Here's a fifth element that's not mentioned above:

5. No matter what they do now, they cannot recover what they lost.

:(

[ninaspirit]

I think that's where my lack of motivation comes from. It's like the loss I suffered was so great, and nothing I could do would bring it back. I invested my whole life into something, and lost it all. All the friends who I thought loved me are gone. The cause that I had invested my entire life into for 12 years turned out to be a fraud. Trying to re-motivate myself after these losses is very difficult. You develop a "no care" attitude because all your attempts at replacing your losses come up empty-handed. No matter how hard you try, it seem hopeless to gain back what was lost. It's like a big part of me died, and cannot be resurrected. So you just want to give up.

Does anyone else deal with this?

:cool:


Voyager,
yes, wehn we left our famly. and the church broke at the same tim. its like feeling a big hole all at one tim that got made inside. some tims the hole was biger than us. it was a dark time. it was hurting lots. we say we need 2 yers for geting through and then we coud breathe. ok. time. and meet new peple. and take good care of you. so sory. ninas.

[hornblower]

Yes thats exactly how I feel and am existing. Everyday just hanging on. When I was at that church I felt somehow I was involved in doing something for someone else. Like I mattered. Now Im scared. Im alone. Im forgotten and its all over. My life is over and its nothing.
Well really I was scared to go there too. I was scared because of the past stuff too.
I was alone then anyway and am still alone. If I go to church I am alone. No family with me. Its been that way ever since the initial church abuse happened with my daughter being attacked. You know even at that time the police tried to make me see it but I was so unbelievably trusting of them I stuck by them but they?????????????? They hired a lawyer for the kid that attacked my little girl. When I say they I dont know really what group of people did that but its the truth for some of them, they did.
We did not receive one single phone call from any body.
I just had a thought? Now really. Did Jesus' mother get that kind of treatment from her friends when her son died? I wonder. Maybe a few stuck by her, but not many. John we know and Mary Magdelene and her other children but whew, I can just hear what they were saying about Jesus.
Not only then but I wonder what it was like for her afterwards. Those months and days afterwards. Years of going over it again and again. Hm........
Im sure she did much better than I am doing I mean she was a much better person.

[Illuminated]

Yes thats exactly how I feel and am existing. Everyday just hanging on. When I was at that church I felt somehow I was involved in doing something for someone else. Like I mattered. Now Im scared. Im alone. Im forgotten and its all over. My life is over and its nothing. I was alone then anyway and am still alone.
Im sure Mary did much better than I am doing I mean she was a much better person.I understand how you feel. I too am alone, except for that guy Jesus, who is with me always.

Your life is not over. What you have experienced will enable you to help others in the same situation in the future.

You are not forgotten! We love you, and so does Jesus.

Mary was not really alone. She had it better than you. She had another son, and one of the disciples to substitute for her sacrificed Son.

Is there a woman's support group that you can participate in? Are you looking for another church to attend? I have been looking for several months, and I finally found one that has a large lay-counseling program that has been very helpful. I was hesitant to keep looking and then to try what I found, but the people in the program really care about me, and they don't even know me!!!

Where are you in Texas? I am in San Antonio. If you are close enough, we could get together sometime....

[Voyager]

I thought I'd bring this thread back alive after reading a news article today about Hurricane Katrina victims. Here's something I posted on a different thread about one year ago:

I'm beginning to see news reports that are documenting the fact that many of the Hurricane Katrina victims are showing signs of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. When I was watching these reports on TV, I was reminded of how many of the spiritual abuse victims I have met over the years had also suffered P.T.S.D.

Many of us here on the Spiritual Abuse Forum can relate with the Hurricane Katrina victims. We went through a very similar experience - we lost friends, our church, and had our very lives stripped away from us. My wife and I even moved to another city when we left our spiritually abusive church. We had to start our lives all over. Our kids went to a different school. We had to make new friends. We didn't have any family to speak of, so we also lost our church "family".

This type of experience is what can cause P.T.S.D. It's not so much the abuse that I experienced that caused it, it was having to start a new life. It was caused from losing everything. This is the same experience that the Hurricane Katrina victims are going through, and it is causing them to suffer P.T.S.D.

My wife and I have been wondering how we could help the victims of this disaster in addition to giving money to the Red Cross. I believe that many of us on this forum could be of help to these victims. We went through the loss of everything dear to us, so we can relate to what they are going through. It can really help to have a shoulder to lean on, especially when it is someone who has been through what you are going through who can tell you "You're gonna make it through this."

:cool:

[Voyager]

Here is the CNN news article from today that I referred to:

Is New Orleans Having a Mental Health Breakdown?

A new medical study provides a bleak snapshot of the city and its residents
By RUSSELL MCCULLEY/NEW ORLEANS

Background: It's Worse Than You Think

Posted Tuesday, Aug. 01, 2006

Over the past several months, psychiatrist James Barbee has witnessed a disturbing trend among his patients in New Orleans — a noticeable slide from post-Katrina anxiety to more serious, and harder to treat, cases of major depression. At the same time, the city’s system for dealing with mental health care is suffering a major breakdown of its own. "People are just wearing down," says Barbee. "There was an initial spirit about bouncing back and recovering, but it's diminished over time, as weeks have become months."

Nearly one year after Hurricane Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast, killing more than 1,300 and displacing thousands more, frustration over the slow pace of recovery is taking a toll on the region's overall mental health. Initially, complaints reflected what some locals have dubbed "Katrina Brain": general fatigue brought on by the disruption of their lives, difficulty concentrating, mood swings, and mild depression. In most cases, it was nothing that reached critical levels. But since the first of the year, Barbee says, "there's been a steady increase in depression, specifically major depression." Worse, he adds, there's little evidence that things will get better any time soon.

Barbee, a professor at Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center and director of the Anxiety and Mood Disorders Clinic, sums up the situation with a quote he saw in a local magazine recently: "There's no 'post-' to the post-traumatic stress syndrome in this situation," he says. The stress, in other words, never goes away. "The event is still unfolding. People are losing jobs. They're moving because they're so discouraged by the situation. There's a lot of uncertainty about the future. It's not easy to live here."

Barbee is co-author of a report, published this week in the Journal of the American Medical Association, which tries to put some real numbers behind what many health care professionals have known anecdotally: that New Orleans may be in the midst of a serious breakdown, both among residents and the health care system needed to treat them. Barbee and his co-authors — psychiatrists Mark Townsend, also of LSUHSC, and Richard Weisler, of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill — pull together data that, collectively, provide a bleak snapshot of the city’s mental health condition as it approaches the storm's one-year anniversary.

Shortly after Katrina, the report says, a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention poll determined that roughly half of respondents indicated a possible need for mental health assistance, yet fewer than 2% were getting counseling. A February survey of people living in temporary FEMA-subsidized housing found that more than two-thirds of female caregivers reported feelings of anxiety, depression and other mental health disorders. As many as half of the children they were caring for were suffering from mental disorders of their own. A poll of police officers and firefighters, most of whom lost homes in the storm, found that roughly 20% were experiencing post-traumatic stress syndrome and that one in four emergency responders was suffering from major depression. More troubling, perhaps, is a 25% jump in the mortality rate, including a threefold increase in the suicide rate — a conservative estimate since many self-inflicted deaths are classified as accidental.

To make matters worse, the city is suffering from a dearth of mental health services. By most estimates, a little less than half of the city’s pre-Katrina population of 450,000 has returned. But there are only a total of 20 psychiatric beds available in the few New Orleans hospitals that have reopened, compared to about 300 before the storm. By last April, the report says, only 22 of 196 psychiatrists were practicing in the city, shifting a good portion of mental health treatment to the 140 primary care physicians, out of 617, who had returned. With 96 inpatient psychiatry beds, the Medical Center of Louisiana — better known as Charity Hospital — was once the city's biggest mental health care provider. Now, it dispenses emergency care from a makeshift clinic housed in a former Lord & Taylor department store. The heavily flooded hospital may never reopen.

Townsend, head of LSUHSC's Behavioral Research Clinic, says part of the problem boils down to bricks and mortar. "We literally do not have a lot of buildings to put beds in right now," he says. Despite the physicians' best attempts to gauge the scope of the looming disaster, much is still unknown — the real suicide rate, much less how many people are even living in the city. Says Townsend, "All I know is there are a lot of people in emergency rooms all over town who aren't able to be admitted and are just kind of hanging in this limbo between being admitted and being on the street."

To rebuild the system, Townsend and others are calling for more help from the federal government, including an amendment to the 1974 Stafford Act that would provide long-term mental health assistance, rather than current rules that only allow funding for services in the immediate aftermath of a disaster. The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration provided 1,200 volunteer counselors for the Gulf Coast until June 30, when funding for its Katrina response program ended. Local doctors would like to see that help continued as well as more help rebuilding the area's teaching hospitals and physician training programs.

If there's a hopeful note to be found in the depressing pile of statistics, it's that Katrina's aftermath should yield lessons for mental health care providers dealing with a future disaster. "People will learn from us," says Townsend. "Because a disaster like this will occur again."

Can any of you relate with these symptoms?

:cool:

[butterfly]

Yes I can. While reading the article I was thinking how much worse are the symptoms now that it is hurricane season.

I know for me that when the month comes around where I was abused the worse is when my symptoms are the worse.:( :( :(


Those poor people their trama wasn"t for just one day or a week. They have lived with months and months of life changes.
butterfly shirley

[Katie]

Voyager,
I agree with what you said in your earlier post. While the spiritual abuse itself was damaging, the after-effects are what I have had the most trouble with. And yet in a way it was part of the abuse, because the leader's intentional act was the very thing that resulted in the devastation in my life.

I didn't know that our leaving in order to get away from the abuse would result in disfellowshipping and the complete loss of relationships. I was naive enough to think that my friends would still be my friends.

It took the first year after we left to simply understand and accept what was really happening. I dealt with a lot of hurt and anger that year.

The second year was when I understood my loss. I'm not sure that I can tell the difference between grieving and PTSD. I dealt with depression the second year. I can recognize PTSD in my response to things that trigger me.

Now I'm in my third year. I think that apathy, cynicism, and lack of vulnerability describe where I'm at now. It's not really an angry cynicism, just more of an unwillingness to stick my neck out again.

As for the losses, no we can't recover exactly what we lost. However, I do believe that we can have other good things in our life again. I'm not sure what they'll be.

My abuser robbed me of my past, but I refuse to allow him to ruin my future.

[butterfly]

[QUOTE=Katie]Voyager,

I didn't know that our leaving in order to get away from the abuse would result in disfellowshipping and the complete loss of relationships. I was naive enough to think that my friends would still be my friends.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Losing friendships was the worse for me.
I had a 25 year old friendship that died because I didn"t follow the Fundy Rules.

I see now that friendship was based on my Christian preformance. We used to agree to disagree. I never followed the rules. Then she went to a new church and ended up 200% Fundy while before I could reason with her.

So there goes our friendship because I wasn"t strong enough, I didn"t love the Lord because my views were not God views in her eyes.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


As for the losses, no we can't recover exactly what we lost. However, I do believe that we can have other good things in our life again. I'm not sure what they'll be.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I beleave we will have other good things in our life again also Katie.

We will have God who was our God before the abusers twisted our thinking.

It sure hurts untangling the knots for me .:( :( :(

I have found the real God amoung the twist.:D :D

When we walked out of our churches we gained Freedom. That is the start.:D :D butterfly shiley

[Voyager]

I didn't know that our leaving in order to get away from the abuse would result in disfellowshipping and the complete loss of relationships. I was naive enough to think that my friends would still be my friends.
You hit the nail on the head. I believe that this rejection is what causes the lack of trust that most of us share. We believed in a group of people that were supposed to be the most loyal and trustworthy on the planet - and they deserted and rejected us. This throws a wrench into our "truster" and does a lot of damage to it. We thought we knew the right kind of people to trust... now that has come into question. The most common reaction to this is an extreme lack of trust in people that have not yet earned our trust... especially religious people.

:cool:

[leelees]

wow thats soo true and soooo sad...

i would also agree with the comment of the after effects being harder to deal with then the actually abuse..i had no idea i was being abused until after i left and got back in touch with my friend who has had a similar experience!

i was intrigued about the OCD being part of it all, i have that but probably in the weakest to medium form...one thing being i have to check things over and over again before i feel "confident" enough to move on, plug switches being a main one and not having odd numbers on the volume switch and stuff...its very bizarre....i was also interested to learn about PTSD, it never occured to me that we could have that..i just usually think its me being hyper sensitive or angry about nothing!

[outcast]

I think that's where my lack of motivation comes from. It's like the loss I suffered was so great, and nothing I could do would bring it back. I invested my whole life into something, and lost it all. All the friends who I thought loved me are gone. The cause that I had invested my entire life into for 12 years turned out to be a fraud. Trying to re-motivate myself after these losses is very difficult. You develop a "no care" attitude because all your attempts at replacing your losses come up empty-handed. No matter how hard you try, it seem hopeless to gain back what was lost. It's like a big part of me died, and cannot be resurrected. So you just want to give up.

Does anyone else deal with this?

:cool:

Voyager, kudos on the thread. This is a great topic. :) I realized about a month or so ago that I suffered from PTSD b/c of leaving the church I was in. I too deal w/lack of motivation b/c I was so heavily involved in the cult that my identity was what I did, not who I was to God or my family.

Other symptoms I still deal with include:

outbursts of anger, irrationality
crying for no apparent reason
sense of loss
insomnia
confusion
nightmares

My PTSD did not set in until a month after my job at the church sponsored school ended. My leaving process overall took about 6 months. We left the church in January and my job ended in May. Throughout that time I felt emotionally numb. I realized I couldn't really begin processing everything about the SA I'd endured b/c I still had to go into work and see my kids every day. I had to hold it together for them.

For a month after leaving I felt almost normal just from the relief of finally being gone. Then the symptoms hit and I didn't know what was happening to me. I read an article about PTSD and realized that was likely what I had.