Need $$ Help

[SpinningHead]

In a nutshell...

We left our church last September where we tithed. I have no problem with tithing...happy to do it. Not my issue here...

Here's my issue...

When we left our church, we stopped tithing...we didn't have a church to tithe to. We had the conversation that we wanted to continue to tithe to a Christian organization (even have one picked out). Since then, I started to scrutenize the finances dealing w/ budget & tax issues & tithing wasn't recovered.

We have our own business & I work PT w/ benefits but our business is what really pays the bills.

December was a good month $$ and we were caught up on bills + make some big payments towards those taxes.

January was a normal slow January month and knowing it would be I brought some $ from December into January and made it just fine.

February is usually a banging month where the phone is ringing off the hook for people looking for plans for summer projects. Not one job came in for February and we only finished up what we had...we usually have anywhere from 11 to 20 projects. Also, a real estate deal fell through when the buyer (playing games) decided not to sign the P&S holding us up for 3 months (costing us lots of time & $ in the initial work required w/ the town for permits/financing/etc.) Not to mention that 2 of our strongest investors for issues not having to do with us backed out of their promisory committements.

March is here...no new land prospects for development. No new design projects. And we're told that others in our field are beyond their fill w/ work when usually it is us who are booked solid before anyone else. $$ is really, really tight. We're eating lentil soup for the week. We're not lazy, we haven't squandered, we're savy intelligent business people...I know I'm trying to understand/analyze/pinpoint what's up here so I can fix it, change it, amend it...

I feel like God has taken away his blessing. Nothing seems to be going right. I feel like we're making all the right decisions and it still is coming out wrong. I just got a surprise bill from our accountant for $700+. I knew it was coming but didn't know it'd be that much and thought it would be here after April.

Are we being punished for not tithing anymore? My head keeps coming back to that teaching...take away your tithes, He takes away His blessings. I feel like I'm getting superstitious!!??

I'm just crying out to God over and over again...In my devotions last night I read:

11 Why are you downcast, O my soul?
Why so disturbed within me?
Put your hope in God,
for I will yet praise him,
my Savior and my God.

and I just lost it.

I need some help and I need it fast.

[Willow]

I cognatively don't believe that tithing or not tithing has anything to do with hard times or times of plenty. However... I have had the same sort of inner questioning about bad things happening and feeling I had something to do with it... if I'd give, pray, go, do, etc... then the bad thing wouldn't have happened.

I wish I knew what to tell you. Your situation sounds very scarey! What caused the turnaround? Did someone badmouth your business out there? Can you call some former clients and see what's going on? I wonder if it has more to do with being ostracized from the church and the bad rumors than it does with any kind of removal of blessing from God?

[Theodora]

...but do try to separate out this hard time from ANY thoughts of "God" somehow having removed his "blessing" from you because of what you've done/not done with regard to tithing. I tend to agree with Willow's approach here and would urge you to do what you can to see if you can find out whether you have somehow been "blacklisted." This does sound VERY curious that you're not having more business coming in when you've been so successful in the past---and, on the other hand, is this just part of general economic problems we seem to be seeing more and more???

In any case---this IS scarey and my heart goes out to you.

Know that I'll be thinking of you and yours and will be remembering you in prayer.

Hang in there!

Theodora

---

I cognatively don't believe that tithing or not tithing has anything to do with hard times or times of plenty. However... I have had the same sort of inner questioning about bad things happening and feeling I had something to do with it... if I'd give, pray, go, do, etc... then the bad thing wouldn't have happened.

I wish I knew what to tell you. Your situation sounds very scarey! What caused the turnaround? Did someone badmouth your business out there? Can you call some former clients and see what's going on? I wonder if it has more to do with being ostracized from the church and the bad rumors than it does with any kind of removal of blessing from God?

[SpinningHead]

The only place I can see our business being "blacklisted" is church related, but they were never a part of our network and we were always cautious about doing business at church or w/ church folk. Aside from the church project, church associated business was less than 10%. Most of our contacts come from reliable builders who value a good set of plans to work with...they get that trying to build a house/addition w/out a good set of designed/engineered plans from an educated professional is like operating on yourself using a do-it-yourself manual. Stupid.

We also have one-time clients as we have an residental architectural/development firm. 98% of our past clients / builders are happy w/ us and refer us when someone asks them if they know of a good architect around.

Logically it doesn't make any sense, which is why my brain is turning to the spiritual. Our brains are spinning around the clock on this one trying to generate business or see where we can be more effective. I know it's an up & down business but it's never come to a complete halt before.

[Jerry]

Dear SpinningHead,,,,
Beside the other stuff I have done,,,I put food on the table with construction work all my life,and isn't that the way of it ??? We were either eating "Lobster" off "Royal Dalton" or "Beans & Weenies" off "Stoneware From K-mart" ;) There never seemed to be a middle of the road.........We had times when we took cans back to afford a pizza (frozen crummy pizza) :eek: When we can tieth we do when we can't we don't.....All through it when we got down,,,,,,,,,,,God blessed us out of it :D God doesn't keep track,,,,,,,,,He really is a lousey accountant,He always defecit spends to help us ;)
Love Jerry

[Theodora]

snip

Logically it doesn't make any sense, which is why my brain is turning to the spiritual. Our brains are spinning around the clock on this one trying to generate business or see where we can be more effective. I know it's an up & down business but it's never come to a complete halt before.

Siiiiiiiiiiiigh. This IS a hard one....but again, I'd urge you NOT to make things worse by trying to find a "spiritual" solution for something which might just be a temporary bit of "hard luck." Though you think you've eliminated all the "logical" possibilities, it MAY still be that there's some kind of indirect "talk" which might have been detrimental. Still...??? Would it be possible to go to previous good clients and see whether they know of any other possible places for referral???

((((SpinningHead))))

Praying!

Love,

Theodora

--

[Carmen]

We've had our backs to the wall for a while, and we give regularly to the Catholic church - through our taxes. They are automatically taken with the year's taxes by the government and then the church gets its share. Germany does that too. The only way to get out of it is to leave the church. It isn't 10% though, thank goodness. My lack of work isn't a punishment, nor is Hubby's absence of raises.

What we did recently? Re-checked all insurances, making sure they were really the cheapest. We are using the state health insurance most of the time, it costs time, a lot of waiting at hospital and doctor's offices, but I have time - I take the next book I'm researching and sometimes even get a bit of writing done there.

I walk as much as possible or take my bike to save money on gas and depreciation of the car. Hubby bikes to work - gets fit at the same time. I don't go shopping unless I really need something. I make meals from scratch, it is cheaper than buying prepared stuff. I buy at discout markets.

I have to wash more often as we have less clothing than before. I wear stuff that isn't stylish, didn't need that hot-pink blouse though it did look scrumptious. I wear everything longer - too long really.

I changed internet connections for the cheaper one - though we did keep the DSL.

I exchange kid's clothing with a woman whose son is larger than mine - my daughter is larger than hers.

We turn off lights that no one is using. We put the heat down a bit and wear a sweater instead.

In the summer we don't use air conditioning (hardly anyone does here). Open windows don't cost anything. We did invest in screens for the windows though - the mosquitoes would be bad.

My dryer broke and I didn't replace it - but did get another stand for the wash. It all gets hung up now.

I hope you still can cut a few corners.

[hornblower]

Im so sorry. I dont quite understand what it is you do in your business and why this last month you didnt get any orders. Is it because some of the people you were getting orders from were from that church? Do they have sway over others?
I dont want to sound paranoid about it.
On a more healthy note Paul said I know how to do without and how to abound. I think we learn from the things we go through.
When I left my church I am financially more blessed. God sort of showed me it would be that way and it was for awhile but it was still really hard in other ways. I tell you the truth, when I was working if I had health insurance, I got sick. The better the insurance the worse the health problems were. PLEASE Im not telling anyone to get off of health insurance.
When I asked and pleaded with God to get me a raise I could swear money was tighter when I got my raise. There were many things I wanted that I didnt get although I had more money.??????? I dont understand it but its true. Im sure its not this way for everyone but I dont have money of my own so to speak. I think everybody sees this a different way according to what you think God is teaching you at the time.
I would encourage you to seek Him even more about this and then if you dont hear anything and you dont think there is an answer.........sounds like that has already happened. This is what I believe is happening. He is doing a new thing in your life. Change is always hard. None of us like it. If we didnt have it though we would never learn anything at all. Its a journey and its not an easy one either. Ill be praying for you my friend.

[ArmyMom]

Hi Spinning Head,

Please please please don't think God is not blessing you just because in your tough times you can't give him exactly 10%!

I have seen way too many guilt from the pulpit put on people about tithing. Usually it seems that they are doing it when the church income goes down (or in our case, because the pastor was sneaking a lot out for his own non-church use).

It's Lent and we're going through the Gospel of Luke. Earlier this week we read Luke's Sermon on the Plain, basically the same as the Sermon on the Mount. One of the things that was brought out to us was the type of giving Jesus talks about: giving MERCY! "Give and it will be given you" has been used for so many guilt trips. but in context, Jesus is talking about mercy towards others. "Be merciful, as your Heavenly Father is merciful." "God desires mercy, not sacrifice."

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't support our church. We definitely should. But we can't all give 10%. For some it might actually be irresponsible to do so - they may do it at the expense of taking good care of their children, for instance. And some can give more than 10%. Remember St.Paul talks about taking money collected from some better-off churches to take to other ones that were suffering, poor. The poorer churches weren't poor because they didn't tithe!! But Paul talks about it being an opportunity to show mercy to them, to share as Christ said we should.

I am so sorry about your situation. I can relate to what Jerry said. My husband has been in construction for 25 years. The first half of that was "feast or famine." Months with good work, stretches of months without and only a few side jobs.

My heart will be with you, and in prayer.

Blessings.

[SpinningHead]

Im so sorry. I dont quite understand what it is you do in your business and why this last month you didnt get any orders.

We're a residential architect/development firm...we design houses, additions and draw up plans for permits. We've also positioned ourselves to start developing, only land in New England is scarce. People tend not to want to sell land b/c of all the cookie-cutter McMansions being built. We specialize in value engineering saving the buyer $$ during the construction process. We also provide construction management so the buyer only ever has to deal with one person from start to finish.

[hornblower]

Spinning head that sounds like a really good needed business to me. Not saying I know too much about it but I can definitely see that working here where I live. Except that there is so much building going on here that its way over done and sooner or later somebody's going to go broke, thats my thinking anyway. Like how much land buying and selling can go on there are only so many people. Maybe thats wrong though maybe we are just going to over develop the world Lol. I have a neice that she and her husband are doing this same thing it sounds like or anyway something similar, in Austin Tx. and it was rough for a long long time and now things are better I think. She still has a second job though to try to make ends meet.
Are things any better? Im praying for you.

[Blake]

Hornblower,

I am a professional strawberry...no..thast an actor..Im alsways saying "Pick me! Pick me!!!!" and i got to London last yeaer etc and basically had God instructr me to stop tithing.

WHAT!!!!!!

Yes..STOPP tithing.

he made it seem to me I was paying him PROTECTION money as if he was the GODFATHER in the mafia....and he wasnt intersetd.

I did stop paying money...


And what happened...

I had checks written out to me to cancel bills and debt..I also got a few gigs and also got a yearv long tour I am on now where i will earn close to four thousand punds to help me set myself up in London.

I didntr tithe..I gave money to a friend oNCE as a support for his debt....God hasnt destroyed me...

This fear you are under is not God based...

I suspect that people tithe MORE to get browine pioints than anything...

Business is business..I think if theres anything spiritual..its an attack of the enemy trying to push you back into fear and legalism. God is your provider and He will look after you.

Give if you can, but scripture firmly says THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE, PERFECT LOVE CASTS oUT FEAR.

I do NOT think this is God doing this....its possibly spiritual attack, and is just a bad time....

God isnt out to get you, and if he was..He would tell you why..not have you agonise,....hes a god of peace....not confusion.

Lots of love

Blake

[christian sister]

You’re so right, I use to do the same thing, I would give my tithe because I thought of it as protection money, if I didn't give, God would let something bad happen to me.
We were even told at the church I went to that if you missed paying your tithe (even once) that you wouldn't go in the Rapture.
How many times I took money to pay my tithe when I needed a pair of shoes so badly the only ones I had, had holes in them and I had to put cardboard in the shoes to keep out snow. That tithe money even though it wasn’t much would have paid for a new pair of shoes.
So I don’t pay my tithe like I use to. First I haven’t been to church on a regular basis in 2 years, and when I do give its to that TV preacher Joel Osteen, I Like his messages
(for the most part) its more positive then what I'm use to.
But like you God didn't hit me for not paying it, granted my income didn't increase like yours did. But Im into LOA now, and looking for a better financial future.

Hornblower,

I am a professional strawberry...no..thast an actor..Im alsways saying "Pick me! Pick me!!!!" and i got to London last yeaer etc and basically had God instructr me to stop tithing.

WHAT!!!!!!

Yes..STOPP tithing.

he made it seem to me I was paying him PROTECTION money as if he was the GODFATHER in the mafia....and he wasnt intersetd.

I did stop paying money...


And what happened...

I had checks written out to me to cancel bills and debt..I also got a few gigs and also got a yearv long tour I am on now where i will earn close to four thousand punds to help me set myself up in London.

I didntr tithe..I gave money to a friend oNCE as a support for his debt....God hasnt destroyed me...

This fear you are under is not God based...

I suspect that people tithe MORE to get browine pioints than anything...

Business is business..I think if theres anything spiritual..its an attack of the enemy trying to push you back into fear and legalism. God is your provider and He will look after you.

Give if you can, but scripture firmly says THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE, PERFECT LOVE CASTS oUT FEAR.

I do NOT think this is God doing this....its possibly spiritual attack, and is just a bad time....

God isnt out to get you, and if he was..He would tell you why..not have you agonise,....hes a god of peace....not confusion.

Lots of love

Blake

[beginagainrose]

SH... Unless, I missed something, you have always been a tither but now have no church; ergo...no place to tithe so you had a christian org all picked out when things went south. Mal 3 says "test me and see if I will not open for you the windows of heaven"... so, if it was me... and this is just me... I would do that; put God to the test... His Words says He tests us all the time and that may be all you are going through this for; to test your faith in Him to supply.... but, if it was me I would do something like make a sacrifical gift to someone and watch what God does... we have done this before.. right now we are tithing to a place called Matunkkah Center in Melawi Africia. My husband volulnteered there while he was off on his "mid life crisis" tour... it is run by Christians from Holland; an orphanage for children who parents have died from AIDS... I have always believed the "storehouse" that the Word speaks of is God's work not just the place we attend; pretty convenient theology pastors teach if you ask me. IMO:o (Gonna be praying for you and your business; may business chase you down and overtake you in the street!)

[Teri]

I have struggled with this same issue. We have 3-5 months/year of unemployment and when we are doing well, we are catching up from when we weren't. Getting ahead has never happened.
We used to attend a church that taught that the tithe is whatever God tells you to give. For some it may be 1% for another it may be 20%. The issue is not compliance to a law but giving as God says to give. I don't think He wants us to not pay our bills in order to tithe unless He has a reason and lays it on our hearts to do so.
I could not sleep last night and I heard a tele-preacher speaking something I had never heard before. He used to be a health, wealth, and prosperity preacher but he was saying that another well known evangelist came to him and suggested that God's primary goal is to bring people to Himself by the spreading of the Gospel, not prosper believers for the sake of prospering themselves, which is a selfish reason. It really made me wonder.
I belong to a denomination that strongly teaches tithing but what I have seen is that way too much money has been put into bigger, fancier buildings while the people around them are being foreclosed on. To me that just isn't right. If a building is used to minister to the community, I don't have a problem with it, but if it is just another big, fancy sanctuary, then I do.
I dropped out of our church almost 8 years ago for a different reason. We have not tithed since. I do send a monthly donation to help pay for the education of a child in the Philipines through a small ministry in Texas. I am not doing it to get something. I do it because God moved my heart to do so when I received the invitation to be a part of their ministry. It is going directly to the source of the need, a young girl who could not go to school otherwise. How God sees that, I don't know. I hope He sees it as a gift from my heart to that child.
As I listened to the preacher talk about his change of heart, I thought about God's way of giving. When I give a gift, I want to give the best I can give. It is not truly a gift if I expect something in return. Is God any different? Jesus said that if we, as fallen humans, know how to give good gifts to our children, how then does God give to his children? Does he expect anything more in return than gratitude? I don't think so. A gift given in love expects nothing in return.
Jesus also taught the parable of the talents. He used money as an example, but our stewardship goes way beyond our checkbooks. We can give so much more than money! Even a hug given to a hurting brother or sister is a gift. Prayer???? Time??? A listening ear??? We may be giving way more than we think we are!

[JaniceB]

Spinning Head, you are doing more towards giving than I am and my life is going fine.

You know, maybe twenty or thirty years ago people in Afghanistan were progressive. The women worked and drove cars, etc. Then trouble came from the Russians and other political stuff and they thought that God had brought the problems on them because they weren't living by the letter of the Koran. So they went back to their veils and strict (often abusive) rules and traditions. Do you think they were right? Has it worked for them?

I agree with those who said that the rules about tithing are like protection money and I agree with Jerry: God is a lousy accountant but a wonderful loving parent.