Fallout on the kids

[tke316]

Hi,

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...

Two years ago, in the midst of all the crap that my son saw me going
through, being eaten alive by "well-meaning" people in the Church,
my Son (then 15) told me he was afraid to die because he didn't
believe in God. Two years later, mostly through his older sister
ministering to him, he now believes that Jesus Christ is God and the
savior of us all. How he puts that in to practice is another matter.

So now my son is still a worry, but not much an immediate a worry. BUT...
Monday morning my daughter (13) said she doesn't think she believes in
God. If God were there why doesn't he talk back when I pray?

I hunted across the net and found more people arguing that God
doesn't exist, or adult arguements for the existance of God that
would not help a 13 year old. The stuff aimed at kids are "How to
hold onto your faith." She doesn't have any "faith" to hold onto.
But how do I "prove" God's existance to a 13 year old?

Her youth group disgusts her. I can see why. The youth group's
leader submits a "challenge" each week. The challenge is bring more
people to church. With all the problems in the world is that the
best he can do?

Help!

:confused:

[Theodora]

I've been watching for your posts, having been intrigued by your bio with your name---

i.e.


I've been 19 for 30 years.

I spent 25 years as an Evangelical, floating around between churches. I made a pretty firm commitment to a Christian and Missionary Alliance church but 50% circumstances in our family, 25% circumstances in the congregation and 25% differences in opinion on how C&MA handles missionary kids made us start church hopping again.

Tmalss, we eventually joined the Roman Catholic Church. 13 years later we have pretty much given up on that. Now we are attending a non-denominational, almost mega-church.
Interests:
Jesus Christ, Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, curing ms, Jeff VanVonderan, black coffee

Interesting list!!!! Will be giving this background some thought with reference to your dilemma of the day.

From MY perspective, it's a perfectly NORMAL, HEALTHY thing for young people to be questioning their faith---that's how they grow and make the faith something which is THEIRS! I'd hope that as her parent you CAN give her that "permission" to explore what she's being taught without the implied fear of "being lost" which so many churches seem to preach if you AREN'T a "believer" in the moment.

FWIW...I think I was most helped by narrative "biographies" at your daughter's age. Things like Taylor Caldwell's Dear and Glorious Physician (about St. Luke) or Lloyd Douglas' books such as The Robe and The Big Fisherman
Having been confirmed in a liturgical church at age 10---in a rather "unorthodox fashion, since I had been ill and homebound, so the priest just gave me Chad Walsh's "Knock and Enter" to read by way of introduction to the sacraments, NEVER questioned me about it...and just brought me in to be confirmed and to receive communion---THAT is where I began to come into faith--in the experience of the Eucharist. With everything else that was going on in my life at that time, I doubt that ANY "theology" --however given in "child-sized doses" would have made sense to me. Finding comfort in music, in reassurance of repeated liturgy DID help to "order" my world and therefore to bring me comfort.

NO idea whether any of this will be of help----but, as the saying is here, "Take what works and leave the rest."

Again...welcome to the forum(s). Please do feel free to post as you feel comfortable doing so ---and DO keep your sense of humor!!!!

Grace and peace--

Theodora

--


Hi,

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...

Two years ago, in the midst of all the crap that my son saw me going
through, being eaten alive by "well-meaning" people in the Church,
my Son (then 15) told me he was afraid to die because he didn't
believe in God. Two years later, mostly through his older sister
ministering to him, he now believes that Jesus Christ is God and the
savior of us all. How he puts that in to practice is another matter.

So now my son is still a worry, but not much an immediate a worry. BUT...
Monday morning my daughter (13) said she doesn't think she believes in
God. If God were there why doesn't he talk back when I pray?

I hunted across the net and found more people arguing that God
doesn't exist, or adult arguements for the existance of God that
would not help a 13 year old. The stuff aimed at kids are "How to
hold onto your faith." She doesn't have any "faith" to hold onto.
But how do I "prove" God's existance to a 13 year old?

Her youth group disgusts her. I can see why. The youth group's
leader submits a "challenge" each week. The challenge is bring more
people to church. With all the problems in the world is that the
best he can do?

Help!

:confused:

[Jerry]

Her youth group disgusts her. I can see why. The youth group's
leader submits a "challenge" each week. The challenge is bring more
people to church. With all the problems in the world is that the
best he can do?

Help!

:confused:
Dear tke316,,,,
I am sure I'll have a better answer or someone will after we chew on this one a while..............I can tell ya this right now,,,,I would be disgusted too....Some youth leader!!!! I wonder how many of the other kids don't believe either ???? Putting that kind of pressure on children,,,,HE/SHE SHOULD BE HORSE WHIPPED !!!!! Do you think Christ would do that to a child ??? That is the most vile iscidious kind of abuse,because it serves to subjigate her "Self Esteam"....Get her out of there before this "IDIOT" can do even more damage.......
Some Welcome to the board eh ???? :rolleyes: Really I am nicer than this most of the time :o
Love Jerry

[Carmen]

Welcome tke,

I'd consider not sending her to the youth group with someone like that there. How can those kids witness if their own faith isn't solid? And is that church interested only in numbers and not teaching those kids how to feed themselves, how to read the bible? I'm not talking about pressure, but happy spontaneity and curiosity. They won't buy it if the adults around them are not practicing what they preach. They can learn by example and by reading scripture for themselves; just listening to a bunch of rules and hellfire is worthless in my opinion.

I'd just encourage them to read the bible more, with system. I started at 13 and was very interested, reading it (and implementing it) steadied me a lot in high-school where everything seemed so superficial. Sometimes I worry about my children (9 and 11), but then I think that I can't really know if they are born-again until they are older and begin to show the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Until then I will work on their characters using scripture as a basis, so that they at least try to behave like Christians. I hope that scripture will do the rest. (Easier said than done, Hubby isn't a Christian). If there is no one other than the pastor in the church who can tell you how to read the bible, I'd really look for another church. That means that people are not maturing there - not really walking with Christ, not working on their character and expecting to get fed all the time. Frankly, that doesn't change lives. This can't come from the pastor or a youth leader, from the top down, but starts in the individual and the family, from the bottom up.

Take what you like and leave the rest.

Carmen

[hornblower]

How sad. Its always been my biggest concern, the children. Why cant you talk to her about your relationship with God. Do you hear Him talk to you?
Why doesnt anyone talk about this? This not being able to talk to God and yet Hes supposed to be ALIVE!
I do hear God talk to me. Not very often because Im often deaf!
Because I do hear Him I have often had people tell me Im crazy.

Well aint that fittin? (I dont really talk like this even though I live in Texas people dont talk like that here............well not many anyway, haha)

See, to me, your son and your daughter are the honest clear headed ones because if God is real He is talking to us.
I believe He is talking to us all of the time but we dont want to hear what He has to say.
If you dont hear God talk to you then start with talking to Him about it and then I agree, read the bible. Why read when most people dont understand the bible anyway? In John it says that Jesus is the Word. Now I dont completely understand that, but I do believe it. I take it to mean the bible is like His letter to us.
Maybe you know all of this and it was in "being a christian 101" for you. Thats cool, but Ill bet your daughter hasn't ever even heard the first word of it.

I read that book and I believe it and theres something I dont understand I say to Jesus......"what the heck does that mean?" Then I expect Him to answer me. He always does, in one way or another, sooner or later Ill learn it.

[Illuminated]

Her youth group disgusts her. I can see why. The youth group's
leader submits a "challenge" each week. The challenge is bring more
people to church. With all the problems in the world is that the
best he can do?
I would NOT make her go to the youth group. She may be more mature than the others in the group. And, I would also talk to the youth group leader or head pastor in private and tell them gently that you don't agree with that kind of works based challenge. Remember - Whom shall I fear?.
Is there some kind of women's Bible study that you and your daughter can go to together? Methinks you daughter is more mature than those in her youth group, and is ready for more womanly things regarding learning scripture. My daughter never liked her youth group either because she was way over their heads emotionally and spriritually.

[Voyager]

I have abandoned religion altogether, and I never make it an issue with my kids. I figure they can be free to lead their own lives without me forcing religion on them. I have given up on church also. I have one small thread between me and God - Jesus. I figure if He died for my sins, then I am fine. I have no religious obligations to a church or anyone else. If God exists, then great. If not, well at least I tried. I really don't care anymore at this point. I have numbed my spiritual sensitivity so that I don't get burned by religious hatemongers again.

Not everyone here agrees with my philosophy, and I never debate it with anyone. Each to his/her own. But I can tell you that I have saved myself and my family a lot of grief by not putting religious requirements on them or myself. The guilt, fear, and shame is all but gone now. Most religion is fear-based. "If you don't follow our religious rules, you will go to hell." I never care to submit to that way of thinking ever again.

:cool:

[Willow]

Hi and welcome tke,

I'm not a parent, but have been deeply involved in bad religion. My first dose of it was at age 7. After that, I seemed to run back to it like an abused wife runs back to abusive men. The guilt and fear have plagued my life. The best respite I have found is to be away from it all... like Voyager. I can't numb myself though and have fits of conscience that torture me.

I'm glad your kids have the permission to say what they are thinking. You must be a good mom for them to be able to talk to you honestly like that. I'm sure you'll be able to find a healthy alternative for them... even if it means no church. No church is better than bad church, in my humble opinion.

OK... gonna stop there. My input is not from parental experience so feel a little out of place giving it.

Amy

[tke316]

There are two interesting points that I should have been more clear about in my original post.

#1 - It was my daughter who actually requested me to take her to this particular church. I had stopped going to church over a year ago and the only reason I started back again for a few weeks last spring was because she wanted me to take her to this church. Several of her friends attend this church.

I am sure since last spring they have changed focus a bit since a whole new church campus has been built and the move has been made to that new campus.

Another thing is that there is a Sunday morning Sunday School, which is what she is complaining about, and then there is a Monday night Middle School Youth Group that she attended last year but hasn't started up yet this year.

Just to be clear, I have always encouraged our kids to all go to church. I have even encouraged them to go to different churches to find one they can get excited about, but I have tried not to force them to go to church or imply that I will love them any less if they don't.

#2 - Our three children have a great mother. The greatest mother in the world. The thing is; I'm not her. :D I am their dad.:eek: tke316 has some personal meaning to me but nothing to do with my name.

[Willow]

#2 - Our three children have a great mother. The greatest mother in the world. The thing is; I'm not her. :D I am their dad.:eek: tke316 has some personal meaning to me but nothing to do with my name.


OHMAGOSH! Looks like we completely missed the mark!

[Jerry]

#2 - Our three children have a great mother. The greatest mother in the world. The thing is; I'm not her. :D I am their dad.:eek: tke316 has some personal meaning to me but nothing to do with my name.

Dear tke316,,,
Looks like they got a pretty good Dad too :D
Love Jerry

[tke316]

Update: Our younger daughter stopped going to the youth group. :confused:

Our son actually says he wants to go to a Christian College. :cool:

Our older daughter is home from her Christian college now. When she gets some sister-to-sister time with our younger daughter she might get our younger daughter back to confidnence in Jesus. ;)

Thanks. :D

tke316


Hi,

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...

Two years ago, in the midst of all the crap that my son saw me going
through, being eaten alive by "well-meaning" people in the Church,
my Son (then 15) told me he was afraid to die because he didn't
believe in God. Two years later, mostly through his older sister
ministering to him, he now believes that Jesus Christ is God and the
savior of us all. How he puts that in to practice is another matter.

So now my son is still a worry, but not much an immediate a worry. BUT...
Monday morning my daughter (13) said she doesn't think she believes in
God. If God were there why doesn't he talk back when I pray?

I hunted across the net and found more people arguing that God
doesn't exist, or adult arguements for the existance of God that
would not help a 13 year old. The stuff aimed at kids are "How to
hold onto your faith." She doesn't have any "faith" to hold onto.
But how do I "prove" God's existance to a 13 year old?

Her youth group disgusts her. I can see why. The youth group's
leader submits a "challenge" each week. The challenge is bring more
people to church. With all the problems in the world is that the
best he can do?

Help!

:confused:

[jjc9497]

I used to think I had to convince everyone around me about God because deep down inside I doubted He would show Himself. I've learned that I don't have to do or say anything. Just tell your daughter to ask God to reveal Himself to her if He is real. I think He loves that kind of honest prayer, and He always answers that one!!

[yeshua'smags]

I hunted across the net and found more people arguing that God
doesn't exist, or adult arguements for the existance of God that
would not help a 13 year old. The stuff aimed at kids are "How to
hold onto your faith." She doesn't have any "faith" to hold onto.
But how do I "prove" God's existance to a 13 year old?

Her youth group disgusts her. I can see why. The youth group's
leader submits a "challenge" each week. The challenge is bring more
people to church. With all the problems in the world is that the
best he can do?

**What a douchebag!! Pardon the expression.**

Help!

:confused:


Thank God you are smart enough and engaged enough to realize that an adult answer isn't going to cut it with her!!!! Good for you! It may seem obvious, but you wouldn't believe how many parents don't get this!

Try this: Show her the stages of conception to birth. Get a book (or go online; hello Maggie, this is the 21st century!!:rolleyes: ), with really good pictures and captions. Tell her that it is way too perfect a plan to have come from some stupid explosion, or thought up by some finite being. She's a girl, potential mother, it is likely to get her attention.

Then ask her why she believes there is no God. And don't let her shrug her shoulders, make her use words! Some of these are probably easily explained. Take everything she says VERY seriously. If she senses any resistance or doubting of her credibility she will cut you off!

Then tell her that He does talk to her. Explain that little voice in the back of her mind. It isn't going to be some big booming voice, it's going to be her own, or someone she respects' voice. And it always tell her the right thing to do, or the right answer. Tell her that recognizing God's voice takes practice, like learning to rollerblade, or ride a bike. And that adults have a hard time recognizing it too.

Then tell her that sometimes he talks to us in pictures. Like when I was a teenager and I was doing something stupid or wrong, a picture of my Daddy's face when he was mad at me would flash in front of me.

This is what I would tell one of my teenagers. Try it, if it doesn't work, we'll put our heads together and try to figure it out.

Oh, and YOU do it! We tend to take things like this better from our dads, not to take anything away from her mom. It will stick with her more if you do it. And take notes, I want to know what she thinking.;)

[yeshua'smags]

YAY for christian colleges!! I went to Taylor University in Indiana, best year of my young life!:D

Yes! Her sister will help a lot cuz she'll open up to her a little more. :p Yay sisters!;)

But still try what I said. Knowing that you are invested in her life and are thinking of what she says long after the conversation will mean a lot to her. Trust me...I remember 13! And I was a total Daddy's girl!;)

[jimsmuse]

I agree with you jjc9497! I think He does love that kind of honest prayer and he does always answer it! Youth are very astute and open! That's why God always counts on them for the "big" stuff, ie 13 yearold Mary :)

Jimsmuse (Marcy)

[Carmen]

Thanks for the update, tke.

Will keep your daughter in my prayers. I have heard that some kids will tell a sibling what they won't tell their parents, the familiarity is there and the person is in or near their age group.

Watch out which Christian college you send your son to. I went to one for a year (an Evangelical Charismatic one) that only reinforced some errant beliefs I had at the time. Even a scandal while I was there didn't shake my "faith" in the system, though I'd smell it a mile away now. Take a good look at what they teach before you send him there.