The Meeting House

[Reg]

I plan to go to a church in my area called The Meeting Place March 26th with a friend of mine who goes there occasionally. I'n rather excited. I just read their Manefesto.
struck many cords in my heart. Sounds like they know or at least can be sympathetic with what we've been through.

Here is their website, http://www.themeetinghouse.ca/

When you get the time please read their manefesto and let me know what you think.

The Meeting House Manifesto

"A church for people who aren't into church."

Version 5.1, Fall 2003

Welcome to The Meeting House Manifesto! You may be thinking, “Manifesto? Sounds important!” Well, let me explain why we do think this document is so crucial. Paul wrote:

"Let there be real harmony so there won't be divisions in the church. I plead with you to be of one mind, united in thought and purpose."
~ 1 Corinthians 1:10 (NLT)

It's easy for a church to get 'out of focus'. When that happens, blurred vision causes ineffective efforts and competing agendas. In turn, this can easily generate disagreement, discord, and division. To avoid this, every church needs to openly declare its mandate, its mission, its means, and its methodology. This in turn helps avoid confusion and disappointed expectations.

While the New Testament provides an overview of how the early church operated, much of the detail has been left in the hands of each local congregation to structure their ministries in a way that they feel maximizes their service to God, each other, and their community. Hence, different congregations have a variety of styles and structures of Christian ministry - something that enables them to serve a variety of people in ways that meet their differing needs.

Although there may not be one absolute way of 'doing community', it is important that each church be unified in its own unique vision and style.

At The Meeting House we strongly believe that when you're busy rowing the boat, you don't have time to rock it. And so we call those people who would like to make this church their spiritual home to rally around the foundational principles contained within this document and become committed to making it happen. We realize that our philosophy of ministry might not be perfect – that's why we are always open to change. But we also realize that, perfect or not, as a congregation we need to be fiercely committed to moving in the same direction together.

There is something else I should add. This document is "a work in progress". It captures the crucial, unchanging foundation and pillars that our church is built upon, but also deals with issues of style and details of structure that may need to be reworked or expanded as we grow and develop as a congregation. To borrow and adapt an analogy from Jesus (Matthew 9:17) we maintain an uncompromising commitment to the new wine of the Good News message of Jesus, we must hold that message within flexible wine skins, able to expand and adapt as circumstances change. Still, the bulk of the content of this document is absolutely foundational to our church's modus operandi and important for everyone at The Meeting House to read, remember, and implement.

Let me wrap up this introduction by simply saying "Congratulations!" If you've read this far I'm assuming that you are someone who is personally committed to the process of investigating this church and I’m encouraged to know that you believe this process is worth the time and effort. You are absolutely right. If you find the vision for church life described in this document one that connects with you, please take the next step and ask the key question – how can you go beyond just learning about, to becoming an active part of The Meeting House Manifesto.

So, welcome aboard! We think it’s going to be a fun ride, and we hope you'll want to come with us.

Enjoy!

Bruxy.

Download the Manifesto http://www.themeetinghouse.ca/believe_manifesto.php

It is rather long but I feel when you start reading it you will feel like I do.

[SpinningHead]

Definately worth a Sunday visit! :)

[Theodora]

I've just done a rather quick "overview" of the "manifesto." I agree that this place would definitely be worth a visit---you'll have a better sense of whether this will truly meet your needs, AND it definitely is a plus that you have a friend who already goes there.

HOWEVER....not to "rain on your parade," but some phrases made me rather uneasy--including the use of the emotionally-charged word "manifesto" in the title of the "briefing"-- and the overall emphasis on becoming involved in the "house church" as THE way to have your spiritual needs met as you interact with other believers seems sort of "risky" to me. In spite of making a good-faith (literally, we'll presume!) effort to lay things out as to what they "believe," my guard would be up because how those beliefs are actually LIVED would be where you might or might not find a new church "home." You've done MUCH reading and EXPERIENCED much that may or may not "fit" with what others may "know"----in their various stages of spiritual development. That's not a "right or wrong" situation, it's just a fact of life---sort of like putting kindergartners in with graduate students and expecting them to "relate" to one another and be able to "help" each other. As I said, I just see this as an inherently "risky" kind of situation which, coupled with the DEMAND that you show your faith through ACTION, may or may not be what you need to continue to heal from your pain.

I must admit too that, while struggling a bit as some of you have with where "authority" vested in clergy/pastors has gone astray in the church, as a person coming out of a well-structured "traditional" background, I am uncomfortable with the idea of what might become a sort of "blind leading the blind situation." However it's structured and defined, I'd like to know HOW and WHERE the "leadership" has been EDUCATED in a BROAD variety of issues, not the least of which is the psychological/spiritual NEEDS of those they would attract. Yes...it's a nice "ideal" to call all to "every person a minister"---or however the traditional Lutheran "priesthood of all believers" is worded, BUT, practically speaking, people vary in their abilities AND in their ability to be "pro-active" in their outreach to others. It's possible that you might invest time/energy in your own "outreach"---sort of expecting, by implication of your involvement with the group, per their stated objectives---that others will somehow instinctively "know" how to respond to YOUR needs when the time comes, only to find out that 1) they don't have enough background to do so and 2) being human, they may be content to "let George do it" if they aren't themselves immediately in the role of being the "responsible one."

?????

((((Reg))))--- Guess I should just let it go with that! Obviously, all of the above is with a "take what works and leave the rest" attitude. As I said, I don't want to "rain on your parade" and I AM pleased that you've found something that you think might be a good "fit" for you. However.... siiiiiiigh!.....:o :rolleyes: ...yeah...you knew that was coming, didn't you?.... HOWEVER....I'm just concerned that you're perhaps still in a "tender" enough frame of mind that you'd be WANTING to find the kind of fellowship denied you for so long and so perhaps not be alert to where the "group" might be headed where you yourself might not want to go.

Perhaps???

Will be thinking of you and HOPING all goes well!!!!

Grace and peace---

Theodora

--


I plan to go to a church in my area called The Meeting Place March 26th with a friend of mine who goes there occasionally. I'n rather excited. I just read their Manefesto.
struck many cords in my heart. Sounds like they know or at least can be sympathetic with what we've been through.

Here is their website, http://www.themeetinghouse.ca/

When you get the time please read their manefesto and let me know what you think.

The Meeting House Manifesto

"A church for people who aren't into church."

Version 5.1, Fall 2003

Welcome to The Meeting House Manifesto! You may be thinking, “Manifesto? Sounds important!” Well, let me explain why we do think this document is so crucial. Paul wrote:

"Let there be real harmony so there won't be divisions in the church. I plead with you to be of one mind, united in thought and purpose."
~ 1 Corinthians 1:10 (NLT)

It's easy for a church to get 'out of focus'. When that happens, blurred vision causes ineffective efforts and competing agendas. In turn, this can easily generate disagreement, discord, and division. To avoid this, every church needs to openly declare its mandate, its mission, its means, and its methodology. This in turn helps avoid confusion and disappointed expectations.

While the New Testament provides an overview of how the early church operated, much of the detail has been left in the hands of each local congregation to structure their ministries in a way that they feel maximizes their service to God, each other, and their community. Hence, different congregations have a variety of styles and structures of Christian ministry - something that enables them to serve a variety of people in ways that meet their differing needs.

Although there may not be one absolute way of 'doing community', it is important that each church be unified in its own unique vision and style.

At The Meeting House we strongly believe that when you're busy rowing the boat, you don't have time to rock it. And so we call those people who would like to make this church their spiritual home to rally around the foundational principles contained within this document and become committed to making it happen. We realize that our philosophy of ministry might not be perfect – that's why we are always open to change. But we also realize that, perfect or not, as a congregation we need to be fiercely committed to moving in the same direction together.

There is something else I should add. This document is "a work in progress". It captures the crucial, unchanging foundation and pillars that our church is built upon, but also deals with issues of style and details of structure that may need to be reworked or expanded as we grow and develop as a congregation. To borrow and adapt an analogy from Jesus (Matthew 9:17) we maintain an uncompromising commitment to the new wine of the Good News message of Jesus, we must hold that message within flexible wine skins, able to expand and adapt as circumstances change. Still, the bulk of the content of this document is absolutely foundational to our church's modus operandi and important for everyone at The Meeting House to read, remember, and implement.

Let me wrap up this introduction by simply saying "Congratulations!" If you've read this far I'm assuming that you are someone who is personally committed to the process of investigating this church and I’m encouraged to know that you believe this process is worth the time and effort. You are absolutely right. If you find the vision for church life described in this document one that connects with you, please take the next step and ask the key question – how can you go beyond just learning about, to becoming an active part of The Meeting House Manifesto.

So, welcome aboard! We think it’s going to be a fun ride, and we hope you'll want to come with us.

Enjoy!

Bruxy.

Download the Manifesto http://www.themeetinghouse.ca/believe_manifesto.php

It is rather long but I feel when you start reading it you will feel like I do.

[Reg]

I've just done a rather quick "overview" of the "manifesto." I agree that this place would definitely be worth a visit---you'll have a better sense of whether this will truly meet your needs, AND it definitely is a plus that you have a friend who already goes there.

snip

In spite of making a good-faith (literally, we'll presume!) effort to lay things out as to what they "believe," my guard would be up because how those beliefs are actually LIVED would be where you might or might not find a new church "home." You've done MUCH reading and EXPERIENCED much that may or may not "fit" with what others may "know"----in their various stages of spiritual development. That's not a "right or wrong" situation, it's just a fact of life---sort of like putting kindergartners in with graduate students and expecting them to "relate" to one another and be able to "help" each other. As I said, I just see this as an inherently "risky" kind of situation which, coupled with the DEMAND that you show your faith through ACTION, may or may not be what you need to continue to heal from your pain.

snip

It's possible that you might invest time/energy in your own "outreach"---sort of expecting, by implication of your involvement with the group, per their stated objectives---that others will somehow instinctively "know" how to respond to YOUR needs when the time comes, only to find out that 1) they don't have enough background to do so and 2) being human, they may be content to "let George do it" if they aren't themselves immediately in the role of being the "responsible one."

?????

((((Reg))))--- Guess I should just let it go with that! Obviously, all of the above is with a "take what works and leave the rest" attitude. As I said, I don't want to "rain on your parade" and I AM pleased that you've found something that you think might be a good "fit" for you. However.... siiiiiiigh!.....:o :rolleyes: ...yeah...you knew that was coming, didn't you?.... HOWEVER....I'm just concerned that you're perhaps still in a "tender" enough frame of mind that you'd be WANTING to find the kind of fellowship denied you for so long and so perhaps not be alert to where the "group" might be headed where you yourself might not want to go.

Perhaps???

Will be thinking of you and HOPING all goes well!!!!

Grace and peace---

Theodora

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. Perhaps I misled you a bit. I have been attending a relatively healthy church since 1998. Although having some difficulty with one person there, she has left a couple of years ago. I also belong to a good small group. My needs by in large are being met.

I was not looking for a new home church myself, just excited for my friend. I think she wants me to give her some feedback.

However, I agree with you about those things you mentioned. I can get a better feel after I go there.

Thanks again Theo. You always seem to have such a grasp of the way it is.

[Carmen]

Umm, I heard warning bells going off when I went to that site, too. Not to be too specific, I didn't like the words, Manifesto, commitment, T.E.A.M. meetings, equipping, the link to Intervarsity (mentioned by Rick Ross), the link recommending Christianity Today - they promote the zaniest things sometimes. The site has a flavor too much like Warren or McClaren to me, and I wonder whether the cell groups that they call "home churches" function like cell groups or home churches - they are a potential window for control if misused. Just my thoughts - I know I'm a pessimist. Been burned too often. Just be careful when you go and don't do the "surrender" thing, take a good look around and a long one. Be critical, read between the lines. I hope you don't find any lines, if they don't exist then so much the better. Good luck! Take what you like and leave the rest.

[Reg]

Umm, I heard warning bells going off when I went to that site, too. Not to be too specific, I didn't like the words, Manifesto, commitment, T.E.A.M. meetings, equipping, the link to Intervarsity (mentioned by Rick Ross), the link recommending Christianity Today - they promote the zaniest things sometimes. The site has a flavor too much like Warren or McClaren to me, and I wonder whether the cell groups that they call "home churches" function like cell groups or home churches - they are a potential window for control if misused. Just my thoughts - I know I'm a pessimist. Been burned too often. Just be careful when you go and don't do the "surrender" thing, take a good look around and a long one. Be critical, read between the lines. I hope you don't find any lines, if they don't exist then so much the better. Good luck! Take what you like and leave the rest.
Thanks Carmen,

For sure, my radar will be up and ready. I have listened to a couple of Bruxy Carver's sermons. The focus is correct. He sounds OK. I like the fact that he has a Q & A at the end of the service. I plan on asking him if he has a recovery ministry, especially for the Spiritually Abused.? What do you think? A good idea? :confused:

BTW, like I said, I don't plan on joining, just going with a friend for a visit.

[hornblower]

Im sorry but for me this manifesto sends up red flags. Why does it have to start out like that? Its like its all about division.
If I was going to write something like this I would have it be about love and acceptance not about how someone might divide something.
Ill never forget in that church I was going too they were into fadsand one thing people said was "If God has sent you here and wants you here we want you here but if He didnt tell you that we dont want you to come here either." I kid you not they thought that was cool to say!
I kept trying to tell them that was rude to say that to people. Then I was on their out list I guess.
Then they said this too.............."its not about you" Now I know thats a thing like Joyce Meyers thing of "What about me? What about me?"
But you know what? What if someone who doesnt know what they are talking about comes in to the church..........like heaven forbid somebody who has never been to church before? Are they going to get that stuff? Its rude as all get out.
Thats kind of how this manifesto makes me feel. Because if I said I dont like your manifesto then they would say well maybe you dont belong here.........yep I dont youre right I dont. Cause if I cant be me I dont want to be them.
Yeah I know im a trouble maker.
Heres the thing........I dont want to be a trouble maker but this stuff bothers me this churchey type thing of divisions.
That thing was said to people who were having a division problem to encourage them not to make them shutup. Maybe this is too but it strilkes me as odd to start out a manifesto that way like THIS is what we believe in! No divisions. You cant grow without them in a lot of ways.
Biggest division yet was Paul and Peter and it was all about us being let in. Man am I glad Paul stuck with it and it sure did cost him too.
Just me. Id go and Id have my mask on for sure, my gas mask. Id be as silent as a dove. ha. which is why I dont go anywhere and you are thinking probably who would want you right?
Lol just kidding go and have a good time.

[ChurchHappens]

I've had this image awhile ago of churches being like cruise lines. See:

http://thegodjourney.com/forums/index.php?topic=119.0

So with that image here would be my response to your original post:

That was very nice of your friend to give you a guest pass on that cruise liner. I looked over their literature and I would classify them as a mega cruise line and they seem to have lots of activities and exciting entertainment. I even listened to a lecture from Captain Bruxy and he seems to be very nice and even has a sense of humor. At the end he even had question and answer time which was great.

I also looked at their Business Operations Manual (manifesto) that you posted and see they focus a lot on their ship and it looks like they have it very well orginazed with many officers, staff and crew.

As a guest I'm sure you won't need to pay their fees and you can just enjoy all they have to offer. But it looks to me that this kind of cruise line requires a lot of crew and a lot of money to keep going. I also see that they would like all their customers to go through training to be crew. I also see that they want their customers and crew to be loyal to their cruise ship only and not go cruising on any other ship.

All in all I don't see anything different from the many mega cruise lines out their that seem to be very popular today.

I would say though that most cruise lines use the crew as fuel to run their ships and when they are burned up and used they are tossed out. (Kind of like those Martian ships on War of the Worlds :eek: )

Ok, I know the above sounds silly but it's just how I've come to see the church system these days. ;)

Mike

[Willow]

Great link Mike. I joined the godjourney forum. no one seems to be in tennessee though :(

[Carmen]

Thanks Carmen,

For sure, my radar will be up and ready. I have listened to a couple of Bruxy Carver's sermons. The focus is correct. He sounds OK. I like the fact that he has a Q & A at the end of the service. I plan on asking him if he has a recovery ministry, especially for the Spiritually Abused.? What do you think? A good idea? :confused:

BTW, like I said, I don't plan on joining, just going with a friend for a visit.

I wouldn't call any attention to myself. In the past it was a mistake for me. It is easier to sit on the sidelines and observe if nobody notices you. If you don't get involved, at least not right away, your view is probably more objective. If you start identifying yourself with the others too early, that could block objectivity. Just my opinion.

[Reg]

I wouldn't call any attention to myself. In the past it was a mistake for me. It is easier to sit on the sidelines and observe if nobody notices you. If you don't get involved, at least not right away, your view is probably more objective. If you start identifying yourself with the others too early, that could block objectivity. Just my opinion.
Thanks Carmen. Good advice. I have rethought this and since I'm going with someone else, I don't want to embarrass them. I will only touch the subject if/when the time seems to be right.

[Willow]

Let us know how it goes Reg.