Jerry on "memory repression...."

[Theodora]

HI Jerry--

I've just been reading Jane's thread about her feelings in thinking about her previous church and the awakened longing for reconciliation.

You said---


Dear Jane,,,,
This is a common mental defence more common in adults than children.Repressing a memory doesn't always mean forgeting the memory all together.Sometimes we "Repress" the emotion experienced in abuse,while leaving in tact,the memory of the event........The human mind often compartmentalizes memory.In abuse we often experience "Sencory Input Overloading"...When this happens the mind compensates to manage the pressure and remembers in digestable segments.As a consequence,1 event could be remembered on different ,oh tracks if you will,like Physical pain,Emotional stress,Grief ,Percived guilt so on.Sometimes one of these segments gets triggered while the rest remain dormant.Say only the memory of pain of a certin event is triggered without the rest,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the result ???? a panic attack....I think you can see the idea ;) I think this is what you are working on resolving now. :D
Love Jerry

(At end of thread---URL---http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/printthread.php?t=3753&page=2&pp=10)

VERY helpful information for me too, (((Jerry))). THANK you. Will see how this might apply to some other "stuff" which has emerged for me of late as well.

Thanks again---

Theodora

[Katie]

Jerry,
I agree with what Theodora said here. I've been thinking about this post today.

At the stage I'm in now, it's easy for me to almost pretend I never knew those people and none of the things really happened, like it's just a stupid movie I watched. I suppose this is a type of repressing or compartmentalizing. I would rather just not engage with the hurt anymore.

For the most part this works pretty good because I rarely have any interaction with the people from our past. Sometimes I consider it a healthy response of just letting it go.

What I find however, is that often on Sunday mornings, I can barely hold myself together through church. It's nothing to do with the church itself. It's just that all of the feelings of loss seem to bubble just under the surface.

I do my best to push the thoughts and feelings away. I don't want to hurt anymore. I'm just trying to wall off the part of me that cares.

This event has been the most stupid thing I've ever had to process emotionally. There has been no positive recourse, just suck it up and accept all of the crap.

[Jerry]

Dear Katie,,,
Reprocessing experience can be difficult.The idea is to remember in proper sequence to resolve the hurt ....Example;The emotions I am currently experiencing,are a product and part of the old Church,,,,,NOT this Church.It takes some work and time to reseuqence the memory and put all its elements in order,,,,,,,,,but you will ;) The improvement will sneek up on you.You will be sitting there one day and realize "Hey !!!! I actually don't hate being here" :D
Love Jerry

[Carmen]

For me it is kind of aggravating. Just as I think I am pretty close to being completely healed or have enough distance to the incident at least, I find another layer in the onion. I make lots of progress, just to find another aspect of how I was hurt, another issue to deal with.

For example, the last one came out when I wrote a post in answer to Traveller. I realized that even my language had been used against me, that a part of what I consider to be "home" and "safe" was used as a weapon. I guess I knew it all the time, but the feelings about it hadn't surfaced on their own yet, I hadn't dealt with that aspect yet although it was part of the knot of emotions that I had just after the SA. I thought that the knot was gone, but there are still parts of it left to untangle. Back to the drawing board.

[Jerry]

Dear Carmen,,,
I know exactly what ya mean,,,,remember the quote;"Just when I have all the answers,,,,,,,,,,,,they change all the questions"....It's a long process,but looking at the positive,when we finally get done we are gonna be really freekin smart :D
Love Jerry

[Theodora]

Ah (((((Jerry)))))--- How I DO love your perceptions!---

"It's a long process,but looking at the positive,when we finally get done we are gonna be really freekin smart "!!!

Hold the thought! ;) :rolleyes: :D :D

Thanks, Kate and Carmen for your further thoughts here. More "grist for the mill" for me as well...but no time/energy to "process" that here right now.

Love and prayers for all! Thanks for "being here!"

Theodora

--



Dear Carmen,,,
I know exactly what ya mean,,,,remember the quote;"Just when I have all the answers,,,,,,,,,,,,they change all the questions"....It's a long process,but looking at the positive,when we finally get done we are gonna be really freekin smart :D
Love Jerry

[Carmen]

Jerry, you're so funny! I don't know how you can couch wisdom in humor, but it works. It is true that recovery is a learning experience, I have learned so much about a lot of things since I was SA'd. Just trying to find out what happened and why have taught me a lot of other things too, but I still have a long way to go before I am "freekin smart". :D

[molehills]

I was at a movie with my kids and this guy kept staring at us in this weird accusatory way. Whenever a male is staring at us like that and I have my kids I pay attention, so I looked right back. I kept my face bland, but I let him know I was keeping tabs on him and I wasn't afraid. He kept staring like he expected me to be intimidated somehow or to feel bad. I found that very strange since even the perverts who try to intimidate me usually feel at least slightly embarrassed. Then all of the sudden the guy looked really freaked out and half ran out of the theater. It was so strange that I kept thinking about it. I finally realized that he was one of our closest friends from our old church. A "deacon" and member of our Teens and Twenties group. I had" forgotten" him completely and it had only been a month or two. I very sincerely didn't recognize him. He was a weirdo stranger to me.

[butterfly]

:) Molehills, I would like to know what he was thinking about then!!:D
Well anyway you won Molehill. :D :D :D butterfly

[Jerry]

I very sincerely didn't recognize him. He was a weirdo stranger to me.
Yes ,,,,just like he always was ,,,,,,you just didn't realize it :D
Love Jerry

[hornblower]

Ok Jerry, Im lost. I remember the abuse day hour minute and all of the subsequent every tiny abuses that happened to the tee and its been.............ok so heres a memory repression I guess I cant remember or dont want to remember how long its been.
It still hurts pretty bad.
I actually find it hard to go out of my house not just to church.
I dont think Im understanding what you all are talking about here.
Im really afraid to be here too quite honestly.
Somehow though I dont think I have a problem. I know that sounds kooky but really why do we have to go to church anyway? Now Im sure I will be stoned for saying that but Im just being honest about it. Its a building for goodness sake. I cant really go anyway unless I go alone and Im tired of doing that. Are we all here because we need to go back to church? I dont want to influence anyone to NOT go but why am I sinning if I dont go? To me whats wrong is if I dont fellowship with other Christians, dont witness, dont care if I sin any longer you know like give up. Dont seek God, thats got to be important to seek Him I think. Love as much as I can. I have to confess that and repent from that a lot. Going to a building that they say is church.......why?
Yeah I miss the music. I miss praising God corporately. Thats it though really I dont miss anything else. I realise the pastor hurts and the people hurt and that is what it is. All of us hurting alone and together and apart and at each others throats. So why do all of that with so many people?
Am I like subversive or something now? Like what do they call those people that try to have a government all alone? Cant remember that name right now for what that is. See this memory repressive stuff hits this old lady all of the time.
Just talking too much again.
I know what happened to me. I got way too involved and too serious about church. Its like high school really, unfortunately I had a really bad experience then too. You try to find your niche and there are cligues and then bam your out! Best thing to do if you are going to go to one is to stay uninvolved as much as possible. In other words keep your mouth shut. Im not good at that even with my fingers on these keys. So anyway sad but true its not a good place for me to be. When my Mom lived here with me the church came here to my home via the government, that was nice. Still not much corporate praise going on.
Ok Ill shutup now........sleep well have a nice day...goonight:o

[Carmen]

Hi Hornblower,

Just keep blowin' that horn. :) Looking at yourself and why you do things and don't do other things is part of the process of healing. I'm a bit of a recluse too, so can identify. I used to go for corporate worship as well. One really didn't have anything to do with the others, didn't have to talk to them just sing beside them and feel that "glory" or whatever it was.

That isn't my thing now though. I think that church is more about one's relationship with God first - about getting that straight or at least going in the right direction. After that then you can turn to others, even if it is difficult personally. I am trying to make the effort to do so, even if it goes against my grain, for the sake of my relationship with God, who told us to tell others the gospel and love and help them.

These things go together. It is easier to merge them when one realizes that it is not about oneself, but about God. He is the center. His will (not the church's will or the pastor's will) is the one that counts. I'd rather sit at home with a good book, but I think that the church, at least the part we can see, the other believers, is more about community. It is about taking what one has learned from God and putting it into action to please him. We are there for each other, to teach and learn, help and encourage. Any group that is not doing that at least most of the time hasn't earned the name "church" in my opinion. They might call themselves a church and might be "playing" church, but if they are not pulling it off, then they aren't a church.

If I were you, I wouldn't go to a place or be part of a group where the people are not working on their character for the sake of the others. That is a true test of Christian character, but everyone has to be involved for it to work. If only a few are really practicing selfless Christianity and the rest are there to show off their Sunday clothes or get high on the Spirit or show off their singing talent, then the thing is less stable than a house of cards. I think that Jesus' illustration of a church built with living stones applies well to the situation, but you can't have a building to house God's Spirit unless you have the stones. If most are there to please themselves, then there is not enough building material to work with.

Some call me subversive for thinking this way, frankly I don't want to do church their way anymore. If they want to stay in such places that is up to them. If they are working on their character, they will find God there too, maybe not in fellowship, though. I want to find him in prayer, Scripture reading and in fellowship, if that is how he likes it best. I think that that will fulfill me the most, even if the people part is the hardest thing for me to do. From what Jesus said about community, I'd think that was what he was getting at. The "fruit" of the Spirit has a lot to do with how we treat others when we are with them. Jesus told the Pharisees, "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance." Mt. 3:8. The fruit of the Spirit as listed by Paul, "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control," Gal.5:22, mostly have to do with human relationships. These character traits can't be put to the test unless one is with others. Of course I am patient when I am alone. I don't lose my temper easily when alone either. I found an interesting quote recently in Schiller: "Jedwede Tugend ist fleckenfrei - bis auf den Augenblick der Probe." Translation: "Every virtue is spotless - until the moment of the test." We won't know if we have really learned what God wants us to, until it is put to the test in the community, specifically the Christian community. Not just any community that calls itself Christian, but one where people truly respect, love and serve each other. For me church is a serious thing, and it starts with me building my character for the sake of others. Only if they are doing the same, will it really be church. We will build each other up and encourage each other to keep building ourselves and others.

That is only my opinion, take what you like and leave the rest.

I can understand it if you don't want to go to a church where everyone is just there for a good time and the latest gossip or even to just hear a sermon. I wouldn't want to go there either. I prefer to meet with a few Christians that are doing as I am, working on it, where we can talk with each other one-on-one and help and teach each other directly. I don't go for the worship (though we may feel compelled to sing a song), but for the friendship and one-on-one trust we share - which is Jesus Christ when two or three get together in his name. In my opinion that is not what most are doing, that is why many behave so badly that Jesus is nowhere to be found in their churches.

I hope you can find healing whether it be alone or with others. Sometimes being alone is good for a while until one's character is developed enough to be with others. I have been alone for too long, and though I like solitude, the need for being with other Christians is overpowering my wish to be alone at this time. I seem to have come to a place where I can't grow alone anymore and will only make progress if I meet with others once in a while. Only you can know which time it is for you.

Carmen

[hornblower]

Thankyou Carmen wow that is really an insightful way to see "church." Its given me a lot to go on, honestly it has.
I just got through talking to my daughter this morning and I actually did better today. It would take too long to tell you what all of this means (talking to her and the church abuse Ive been through) its all connected, but I do want to say you have really given me a lot to consider.
Im going to be painfully honest here.........I know Im in hot water because the word says if you say you love God and dont love others you are lying to yourself or something like that.
I know I dont love the body any more. Its a huge solid mass of stone right now. Thats how it feels.:(
I love because I know God wants me too but I no longer feel anything towards most people. I dont know if this is good or bad I just dont know. Im glad I dont feel anything. Im not doing a very good job of explaining myself. I cant go on feeling all of this pain I guess thats what I mean.......you know maybe thats a memory repression too?
I talk to my son about God. I try to talk to my daughter about God, although she, a good bit of the time is so 'flat' that is hard to do, so now I have to be very careful with her.
I talk to my sister about God and I still dont really know where she is coming from she hasnt been to church for years and years and years........since her baby died.

Sometimes I talk to my husband but not often because he only listens and never ever says anything so no feedback kind of scares me. Like am I turning him way off you know?

I have two friends that are real died in the wool church going Christians and they are driving me crazy!!!!!!!!!!! Really they are! I end up feeling so drained when Im with them and so used............I dont know what to do about either one of those relationships Ive just kind of put them on the back burner. Ive known these two women for years. Actually I have four friends all of them its always the same, they wear me out.
So why am I telling you this Carmen? I think the problem is there is something very wrong with me.
Its not God, Its not them, Its me.
I even feel that way when I come here. There is a post on the other NACR forum that someone says something about a bugle and so last night I had more bad dreams and its turning out to be another horrific day in a way because Ive got it in my head that these people are talking about me since my name on here is hornblower.
Talk about paranoia??????????
Theres also something about old testament and proselitising and im thinking its because of my post to Jerry.
I cant even come here.

In the end maybe this abuse that happened to me at that church was my fault. The pastors wife said to me that people were all talking about me because they were sick and tired of hearing about my raped daughter.
My daughter, Im sure you didnt know, was attacked when she was barely six years old in the church we were going too and she was almost murdered. The boy he was 16 got off and went to an insane asylum to end up killing another person. The police were looking for him at the time he did this to my daughter because he had murdered another six year old girl.
Ok My husband has never been back to church after that.
Not because of the attack but because of how we were treated and have been ever since.
We cant talk about it and because my daughter has been sick since she turned about 15, one hospital after another, shes 35 now. fully disabled, no job, no friends at all, no boyfriends, nothing. She basically has her dog which was my dog at one time lol :rolleyes: and us, her father and myself. We are in trouble financially and every other way because of this continual trial.
The amazing thing to me is that I still believe in Jesus..........:)
What a miracle.
Not only that but so does my daughter and my son and even my husband sdoes. Our two children love to go to church. I worked in Christian schools all of the time and sent my kids there paying the money from working as a teacher there in these Christian schools........I dont even have an education but God did this for us. Amazing...........untill the stupid teachers would not teach my daughter any more because she was sick. The principal was horrified and started teaching her himself in his office. I was almost fired over this ordeal. She was so persecuted by her so called friends because she was put into a hospital. She really did not need to be there, it was the worst thing for her but these same teachers insisted on her going. She had narcolepsy........oh yeah thats dangerous right? Haha. She was a straight A student and a cheerleader at this same school where she was attacked in the church years before. Anyway the girls would not let her sit down with them as she had always done before at the lunch table. She came to my office in tears. I called her principal telling him I thought these girls should be held accountable. He laughed at me.
To make a long story short I almost got fired except the principal of the grade school was a friend of mine and told me to go to the headmaster with all of this. When I did he told me more of how bad it all was telling me that these same teachers were refusing to even teach my daughter and he had never seen so many cold hearted people in all of his life.

My daughter to this day loves these same people. She doesnt even get the entire thing.
I just dont ever bring it up. Dont think it isnt inside of me though as you can see its all right there bigger than a whale.
And Carmen this is just a little of my abuse in churches and Christian schools. Ive learned a lot though.
NO1 thing..........Im not Jesus.......I cant take it like He did and He suffered the cross who am I with all of this little junk He went through so much more and He loves them anyway............loves me anyway.......I dont know how He does it.
NO2 thingYou know maybe I am just very uncool. maybe that wife of that pastor is right maybe people ARE sick and tire of hearing about my daughter. She got it all wrong and thats too bad but heres the thing.............it really is a God battle not mine or theirs. I cant fix it and neither can anybody else. If it gets fixed it will be because God and He alone fixes it. Im hoping that He does and soon please??????????? After all this is from satan.......all of it and who can overcome satan not me not anyone but Jesus?
I shouldnt even be bringing it up its so self absorbing isnt it?
Ive been stuck in this ------ rut for man I dont know how long and all Im looking for is sympathy. Over and over again I wallow in it. I make myself sick with it.
I hate myself!!!!!!!!
Dont feel sorry for me Im not worth any of anybodies notice.

Theo........I make jewelry now....beautiful beaded jewelry.you should see it its so comforting to do it. I watch all of these home fix it up shows and make my jewelry. My sister takes pity on me because it gets expensive. My husband doesnt gripe because I dont go to counseling any more so theres an expense thats no longer happening. My sister buys it for her daughters which are many. So anyway that helps. I do want to start back painting though maybe after this big move coming up now. Weve got to get rid of this huge house of my Moms and split up the money.
I dream about my Mom and my Dad and my brother a lot.

[gwen]

Dear Hornblower...((((((hugs))))))

I know what you mean when you say, "I love because I know God wants me to but I no longer feel anything towards most people." I have just been thinking about this myself lately. I've wondered where the loving feelings that I used to feel toward people have gone. I have even thought, is this what scripture means when it says that the love of many will grow cold? I feel a hardness that I've never felt before. It's like my heart is scarred...you know, scarred skin is harder and thicker than regular skin.

I have always been a social person...I loved to be with people, even as a child. Though I did always enjoy solitary activities such as reading, I also really enjoyed being with my friends. Now I prefer solitude. It takes a lot of effort for me to socialize at all. It even takes effort for me to reach out to my husband and children. I do have one outlet where I am reaching out, though. I joined my local Curves fitness center and I'm actually developing a casual friendship with the manager. But it's still kind of like an acquaintance relationship...we don't socialize outside of my working out there. I do have one friend that we both consider each other to be very close, but yet we can go for weeks without actually talking to each other, though we do email each other more often. We do enjoy one another's company when we're together, but neither one of us makes an effort to pick up the phone and call on a regular basis. I'm closest to my sister, more than anyone else, other than my husband and children, but even there, it's usually her calling me on the phone...she does much more reaching out to me than I to her.

I don't like this about myself...it's not who I used to be...before the spiritual abuse...before the mind control that my former "pastor" put me under...sometimes I feel like he "rewired" my brain! I find myself longing to go back to how I was before I was a member of my former "church"/cult, but I feel like that person is gone forever. That person believed that relationships were worth the effort...the "new me" struggles to make any effort to have any kind of relationship.

I guess I said all this to show you that you're not alone in your feelings, hornblower. And I wanted to tell you that the abuse that you suffered was NOT your fault! Please try not to blame yourself for it! You also said, "Dont feel sorry for me Im not worth any of anybodies notice." You ARE worth noticing! Though you don't feel like it, you are a valuable person. I believe that each of us is valuable, but because of the abuse that we've suffered, we begin to believe that we're not valuable. Conditional love teaches us that we're only as valuable as what we can provide to the person who gives the conditional love. Unconditional love (which is extremely rare) teaches us that we're valuable just because we are.

I hope that perhaps this helps you, if even a little bit.

Love, Gwen

[gwen]

Dear Hornblower,

You might want to read the thread "Excellent Posts on PSTD by Illuminated". The information may help you to understand what you're going through. I know that it did for me.

Love, Gwen

[hornblower]

Ive started watching preaching on television again. Something I havent done in years. I watched Joyce Meyer this morning, someone I always get a lot from. It all sounds so right. Im sure it is but Im frozen and the bad thing is I know its because I am sitting here wanting to be frozen.

What I meant by blaming myself is that if I were a different person I dont think I would get into these situations. Thats why I cant ever get around other people too much of the time and I need to stay alone if for no other reason than to learn to take good care of myself.

Qwen I dont know about you, but is your life a lot more peaceful now? Mine is. I only wish that I could be as far along as you seem to be, in waiting for my sister to reach out to me, but no not me.........my sister has trampled on me so good Im like underground but here I am still loving her when what she probably needs is a good quick stiff kick in the seat of her pants. My husband thinks I am nuts for having anything to do with her at all.

Thats another problem though, I wont go there.

You are working out which is the most important thing in life for me right now and Im not doing it. That is so wonderful! I have the membership to a Y where my husband goes regularly. The one thing that happened when I walked in there was that a young girl did not pay me the kind of attention I wanted so I dont go! To my own hurt. These types of things I blame myself for. I think Im wallowing in self pity.

Joyce Meyer says things like I need to grow up. For some reason I just wallow in it.
When I think of what happened (at that church)(its just a stupid sick woman saying something to me that I should totally ignore and go on with my super dooper self!)
I guess it hit on...........everything. Abuse Id been ignoring since the day that my daughter was attacked. That same kind of abuse has happened to all of us in my family ever since that attack happened. Im the only one in my family that keeps on trying. My husband my daughter my son they never tell anyone about any of it. I do because I want my daughter to get prayer and get well. Im stupid doing that.
I am blessed too I feel like I should say because I have had this place to come too(NACR) and they have loved me and I have had two friends in my life that honestly truelly helped me. Still though for the most part people in my life have walked all over me and been completley cruel.
The question is how do I get back up after being stomped on.
You know Qwen its funny about all of this. Its true that I dont feel things like I used too and I dont love the way I did but on the other hand............I took care of my sick and dying parents for a number of years and even though I feel quilty for some of the reason that I did that. I very deeply do love them to the ultimate and I know deep down God is proud of me and Himself for getting me to that point. I used to blame everything on them and now I dont blame anything on them at all. I honestly dont know any Christians that have gone through that. Sometimes I could almost hear the angels singing over me. Please understand Im not saying that I did it like something to be proud of exactly but the choice of doing it even though it was not totally pure was good for me.
I think what Ive learned through this is that real love is just helping somebody when they are in trouble. Real trouble not their own sin.
I used to think that I somehow was supposed to free people from bondages they had. Like that pastors wife. She hurt me so bad so what did I think?????? I was supposed to help her get free from her whatever it was.
Nope.........not me. I lost all of those so called friends because of that one thing. They wanted me to suffer that indignation to set her free. Like something like that could be staged.
Now I dont have time for that shenanigans. Ill go read that other post that you want me to read. Looks interesting.

[Jerry]

Dont feel sorry for me Im not worth any of anybodies notice.
.
Dear Hornblower,,,,
I noticed,,,,,and contrary to your feeling,,,,,I feel Honored and privleged that you shared these things with me.By the way,,,,,,,,,The old church that was sick of hearing about the crimes committed against your daughter ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Wasn't listening,but I know who was........John 11/35
Love Jerry

[Carmen]

Hi Hornblower,

I'm a bit empty myself right now, could use a few shoulders, but you can use mine. You are amazing, that you still have faith after all that has happened to you and your daughter. You may be stronger than I ever was. I don't blame you for not going to a church after all that. I prefer to meet with a few trusty Christian friends myself, people that I know won't hurt me. I'd be careful about the tv evangelists, have been misled for years by some of them, better said their doctrine kept me on the wrong track that I was already on. In a way Joyce Meyer was right, but God takes into account that we grow at our own pace. No one is like someone else, and God doesn't treat us like a collective, but like individuals. He knows each one of us better than we know ourselves. You grow at your own pace and don't let anyone tell you to grow faster. Just trying is enough.

I liked making Christmas ornaments out of beads and wire, just never have the time these days. Made stars, woven "balls" even balls inside balls, that was complicated but nice. Get them out again every Christmas. I gave most of them away to friends and relatives. These days I find more satisfaction when I read or write, though. If I do crafts, I always think about what I'm currently reading or writing.

Carmen