There's SA and then there's SA

[SpinningHead]

Just puttin' a thought out there to explore...

I've been thinking (although not all the way through yet and have no conclusions) that there's SA against a person. This is the controlling, "you're not a good Christian if you don't do as I say", "I'm the only one who can hear God so you'd better listen to me", I'm gonna be all up in your business...etc. This kind is always taken out on individuals specificially and personally.

Then there's SA that is SA of the position. You wouldn't know it or experience it that it's there or even possible unless you were in a position to examine the numbers, question the decisions, point out the misinformation...and then of course, the abuse gets personal but it wouldn't matter who it was...in this case it happened to be you (err, I should say me) who was in the position to question how $ was spent, $ decisions, pointing out hypocrisy in goals, holding folks accountable for their actions..and I (& hubby) got hurt.

It wasn't that my church in & of itself was abusive, but upon the opportunity to examine the core inner-workings of the church...we didn't like what we saw & want no part of it. How they handle their business vs. what is preached on Sunday is extremely two different things...which, I guess in a lot SA cases what is said on Sundays vs. what is said on a Monday is two different things.

I know it's neither wrong nor right to say there's two different kinds of SA...it's all SA...

I dunno...guess I need some thoughts please.

[Doug64]

Hi SA:

I think the bottom line is that both instances are spiritual abuse. They occur in different ways.

In our former group, we didn't have opportunity to examine the finances. They provided an annual report that supposedly showed where the money went but only in broad categories. We found out later that there were some apparent misuses of some of the money.

Non-profit groups are pretty free in how they use the money received. It's rare that there is any repercussion such as what the Red Cross experienced not too long ago. In that instance, they said the money was going for one particular event and spent it otherwise.

Good post.

Doug

[Enochwar]

Just puttin' a thought out there to explore...

This is the controlling, "you're not a good Christian if you don't do as I say", "I'm the only one who can hear God so you'd better listen to me", I'm gonna be all up in your business...etc. This kind is always taken out on individuals specificially and personally.

Then there's SA that is SA of the position. You wouldn't know it or experience it that it's there or even possible unless you were in a position to examine the numbers, question the decisions, point out the misinformation.....who was in the position to question how $ was spent, $ decisions, pointing out hypocrisy in goals, holding folks accountable for their actions.

How they handle their business vs. what is preached on Sunday is extremely two different things...which, I guess in a lot SA cases what is said on Sundays vs. what is said on a Monday is two different things.

I know it's neither wrong nor right to say there's two different kinds of SA...it's all SA...

I dunno...guess I need some thoughts please.


I quess you could say that....putting it that way..........

#1. Manipulation from the pulpit......sermons.....telling people's business from the pulpit by way of "example" or "illustrating" a point.......calling young people down from the pulpit....etc.....:eek: :(

#2. Behind the scenes.......telling deacons if they cannot agree with the pastor they can resign....."firing" Sunday School volunteers because they will not water-down God's Word to accomidate "visitors"

#3. Even some pastors suffer SA....in small churches....deacons rule......pastors do everything from preach...clean the church.......visitation....street evangelization....and mow the lawn, but have to work a second job because members (or rather deacons/trustees) decide he doesn't need a raise....even if he does have a wife and 5 kids!)

I've seen this happen....then he leaves and takes half the congregation with him......but because of what happened in previous church and unresolved issues there......he becomes the abuser and goes back to #1........:eek: ...vicious cycle.....Lord help us all!

Rom. 7:21-24

Enochwar,
EGR (extra grace required) :D

[jarofclay]

I get confused as to what is and isn't Spiritual Abuse. Many people use scripture to back up what they say to defend their opinions. My mother did that.. And then I'm left wondering, well what if they are right?, but, what if they're wrong?

ie: there's a verse that says "touch not my annointed" and there are those who say it means we are not to question those in leadership..
But I ask, 'why not question? Are we to blindly do and follow?'.. and I also wonder, am I suppose to just follow, brainlessly without question?
There must be a balance out there when one wants just the heart-sought truth.. somewhere out there... someplace...

~ confused & searching for truth :confused: ~

[Katie]

Spinning Head,

I think that I understand what you are saying. At the church we left, many people do not believe that spiritual abuse occurs. Even some of those who have been abused are in denial about what happened to them.

When I read your post, the image that came to my mind was of a cow pie. Some of us have been unfortunate enough to step right in it. Just because many people at the church haven't stepped in it, doesn't mean that it's not there all around them.

My husband and I have discussed this many times. I believe even those who haven't been targeted for abuse are affected by the toxic culture of their church environment. If the leaders are the type who will abuse, it will affect the people who are submitted to them.

[Carmen]

Scripture can affect us in ways that are uncomfortable, Hebrews 4:12. I can relate to that passage. Scripture can tell us how to improve our behaviour, even our thoughts. But it was never meant to be used as a weapon by one person to hurt another. That would be SA.

I agree with Katie, some churches can have abusive or toxic atmospheres (like homes or businesses), even though most individuals there have not experienced a direct form of SA.

In my opinion, no one except God himself is holy, anyone else can be doubted, any doctrine questioned. As Paul said, spirits should be tested, don't just assume that any spiritual experience was from the Holy Spirit, nor every prophecy. Paul recommended that every sermon by a teacher (pastor) be discussed on the spot and tested for truth. Does anyone really do this?

Most church traditions and doctrines except the gospel itself are man made even though they are based on Scripture. They all can and should be questioned without fear of retribution from others. It is just that reality ain't so, some take it personally when they or their doctrines are questioned, that is why they say not to "touch God's anointed." All Christians are God's anointed, they are the apple of his eye. That doesn't mean they don't get martyred, that is still happening today.

Some say "don't touch God's anointed" because they know that they are preaching trash and behaving like wolves in the sheepfold. I wouldn't kill false prophets as the OT recommends should be done, (that had another purpose at another time), but would recommend mercy as Jesus did to sinners (I'm a sinner too), and speak out against the false prophets and their prophecies as Paul did. Keeping my mouth shut would be condoning the false teaching and false prophecies and the spiritual damage that they cause. That is not just "collateral damage", people are spiritually injured and spiritually handicapped because of it. I'm not saying that those false teachers, preachers and healers are not Christian, but leave that up to God to decide. Thank goodness I don't have that responsibility or burden.

But I think that everybody has to watch out for himself, and then others as he can. I think that through information, spiritual deception and SA can be at least more widely recognized for what they are, being informed is half the battle. Maybe then even those that have not experienced it will see it as something to be avoided and take the necessary steps in their congregations, and will better understand and at least sympathize with those that have been injured and misled. Maybe they will stop saying that we ourselves are at fault for what happened to us! I have had that one thrown at me, too.