is this spiritual abuse?

[nikkig]

hey guys, i'm wondering if what i've been through is spiritual abuse. when i was in college i was part of a christian group that i got really involved with. people there seemed to be really on fire for God, and i believe that they were genuinely sincere about it. i ended up getting involved being part of the leadership team in this organization. now here's what i'm confused about. so many times i genuinely felt like i experienced God, even in powerful ways. but at the same time, i grew increasingly burdened and less free. the head leader especially is what puzzles me. while he would always talk about the 'right' things (i.e. i don't think he taught us bad theology), i did not 'feel' like i learned those things from him but rather grew more legalistic and burdened. let me see if i can explain. whenever a part of my 'ministry' did not go well, i was always urged to repent, have more faith, bring it all before the cross and surrender everything because things could not go as i wanted them to. while this may sound right, i felt more condemned than anything and it made me doubt that God really wanted to change me. looking back, i felt controlled at times (even about things such as where to live etc) and felt like i had to tell my leader everything (i.e. about my own failures and about everything about those under me). although to be honest he did not use this info to 'blackmail' me or anything, i still felt compelled to let him know everything about me. many decisions could not be made unless he was aware of them (i.e. inviting people from the group over to my place or something). being a 'leader' was a big deal in this group, and even though serving and loving were often emphasized, i got the underlying feeling that leaders were better than those under them. it's hard to explain because so many things sounded right (and were right in fact) but at the same time my life did not begin to live that way but rather i grew discouraged and disappointed, and even angry with God. i felt like i was always sinful, like my sins were emphasized so much (even though we also talked about the cross and Jesus). being part of this leadership group also had some secrecy to it. we were urged not to discuss the things we talked about outside the group (although to be honest we didn't talk about anything that was bad or even that would have hurt anyone whose 'faith was weaker' as we were told). and those in the leadership were so committed; we never missed any meetings ever; my mom asked me a few times if i was in a cult. but to be honest i didn't want to miss, because sometimes God did meet us powerfully. if anyone left this christian group, we didn't really talk about them; i felt like it was almost taboo to discuss it. there was some emphasis on authority and on obedience and i always felt disobedient. people thought really highly about this leader, and i myself wanted to be just like him because it seemed that he knew how to live the christian life and be a successful minister. the thing is when he prayed for me the Spirit came with power. but at the same time, at other times i felt slighted by him because my 'ministry' wasn't going the way it was supposed to. and though we were often told it was not about performance, my underlying feeling is that it was about just that. i have trouble discerning whether or not this was spiritual abuse because 1) my perceptions could have been wrong and 2) other people in the group don't seem to have been negatively affected like i was (some people, perhaps, those who had been hurt in the past, but for most people it seemed like being a part of this group was beneficial for them). at times i thought this leader must love me more than anyone else (especially when he prayed for me), but at others i felt put down, slighted, like he was disgusted with me. what does this sound like to you?

[Enochwar]

i grew increasingly burdened and less free. the head leader especially is what puzzles me. while he would always talk about the 'right' things (i.e. i don't think he taught us bad theology), i did not 'feel' like i learned those things from him but rather grew more legalistic and burdened.


It sounds to me like you experienced Spiritual abuse...it may have been subtle...even unintentional ...it usually is. That is what makes it so confusing....as someone on the forum told me that burdened feeling is the still small voice of the Spirit. It's called discernment.

Keep reading the treads on this forum...

Welcome.....:)

I'm Enochwar....I'm just discovering or uncovering a lot of SA in my life....


Keep an open mind, heart and spirit as you read others stories....keep sharing your experience and it will become increasingly clear to you.

[Kerrin]

Only my humble opinion, but sounds like justifiable SA to me!
Your "Leader" sounds just like my former Vicar; he has set himself up as the object of worship and idolatry.

Any group that invokes GUILT and SHAME, is NOT of GOD!!
Secrecy, shame, repentance that goes on and on with no end, deliverance, striving for perfection, never being good enough.......etc, etc you've listed everything my sick Church used to gain control of it's "flock"..:mad:
His yoke is easy and light remember, and we are BEING transformed..........until He comes back!
These dumb people keep telling us we have to be transformed BEFORE he comes back are making me sick! Literally!

You are proabably closer to God than you think. Just remove them from the equation and see how you 'feel'.;)

Anyway, hang around and see if YOU think it fits with what we've all been through....
Love
Kerrin..........oh, sorry, and WELCOME!!!;)

[searching]

... i genuinely felt like i experienced God, even in powerful ways. ... i got the underlying feeling that leaders were better than those under them....being part of this leadership group also had some secrecy to it. ...the thing is when he prayed for me the Spirit came with power.


Wow! I could have written these same words to describe the church we left - and it definitely had some serious SA.

There's a big difference between 'secrecy' and people not knowing everyone's business, ya know? And although we are to respect and honor our leaders, they are not to be revered or held upon a pedestal. We are all part of the body of Christ - is our head more important than our arm? Or our feet more important than our heart? ALL the parts (including the preachers/leaders) are equally important, just with different jobs to do.

The one thing I can really identify with in your post is your expressing how you 'experienced God' and how the 'Spirit came with power'. These things happened frequently and intensely at our old church and to tell you the truth I miss that in the church we now attend. For a long time I was convinced that the things we 'felt' there were not really God but I know differently now. He can come as a whirlwind or as a gentle wisp of a breeze.

When we looked for a new church, the main thing was the evidence of the fruit of the spirit. Many churches we visited had pretty sound doctrine, but we needed healing so bad and we needed a church with mature Christ-like people who could love us back into the body of Christ (if that makes sense). When we left our church we were disfellowshipped and had no one. We had been told that to leave was the same as choosing to go to Hell. It was a very scary and horrible time - not so different from many here on this board. It was a self-inflicted amputation from the church and we felt like we wouldn't survive. God held us together until we found a safe place - one of which is boards like this one online.

I think that God will indeed help us all to find the right places to be in our lives - just the way it suits Him. Pain and shame are great motivators - hopefully they have motivated us to get closer to God and know Him better.

Sorry for the long post - just wanted to say you're not alone.

In Christ,
Beth

[Janice]

Sounds all too "familiar" *sigh*

[agapeluv]

Welcome to the board

This leader you speak of sounds very manipulative. I used to look around at our FORMER church to see the various reactions of some of the people with comments our pastor would make. NOTHING. I would go and talk to the pastor about some things that were very disturbing and he would say, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT SEEMS TO BE BOTHERED. he would act like it was me. Before we left and I would go and talk to him about things when he would say I was the only one that seems to be bothered, I would tell him, 'THEN THERE IS A PROBLEM if others can not see what is going on. I thought, I AM OUT OF HERE. You have made a bunch of zombies out of them. I think your moms thoughts may have been right. I was thinking the same thing Enochwar said about DISCERNMENT and that still small voice. I would hear that voice many times at our FORMER church. Have an AGAPE DAY.>>>>> smiles>>>>>

[Willow]

Hi nikkig,

A couple of things stand out to me as cultic. There is an excerpt from a book by Robert Lifton (studied chinese/totalist brainwashing phenomena) that I am basing this conclusion on. You can find the article at: http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html

Please trust your perceptions. This group has signs of being a cult. Those who left may be good contacts to help you grasp the true extent of damage the group did to others. For me... in my group... everything was great until I started having problems, needs, thoughts of my own, aspirations, personal goals, etc.

OK You wrote:

i felt controlled at times (even about things such as where to live etc) and felt like i had to tell my leader everything (i.e. about my own failures and about everything about those under me). although to be honest he did not use this info to 'blackmail' me or anything, i still felt compelled to let him know everything about me. many decisions could not be made unless he was aware of them (i.e. inviting people from the group over to my place or something).

1. Milieu Control
The most basic feature of the thought reform environment, the psychological current upon which all else depends, is the control of human communication. Through this milieu control the totalist environment seeks to establish domain over not only the individual's communication with the outside (all that he sees and hears, reads or writes, experiences, and expresses), but also - in its penetration of his inner life - over what we may speak of as his communication with himself. It creates an atmosphere uncomfortably reminiscent of George Orwell's 1984.

You wrote:

so many times i genuinely felt like i experienced God, even in powerful ways. but at the same time, i grew increasingly burdened and less free. the head leader especially is what puzzles me. while he would always talk about the 'right' things (i.e. i don't think he taught us bad theology), i did not 'feel' like i learned those things from him but rather grew more legalistic and burdened.

2. Mystical Manipulation
The inevitable next step after milieu control is extensive personal manipulation. This manipulation assumes a no-holds-barred character, and uses every possible device at the milieu's command, no matter how bizarre or painful. Initiated from above, it seeks to provoke specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that these will appear to have arisen spontaneously, directed as it is by an ostensibly omniscient group, must assume, for the manipulated, a near-mystical quality.

I need to add a personal perception on this. I don't want to negate the powerful experiences you had with God so try to keep what I say in perspective. There is a hypnotic effect that can be attained in a worship setting that can be used by the leaders to manipulate people's psyche to the point that it looks like something supernatural. Indeed... it may be something supernatural. The fact that hypnotists can attain the exact same phenomena has me suspicious that it is nothing more than a technique that has been stumbled onto in highly energized church environments. The phenomena is caused when the brain is overloaded and the brain stem takes over. This can cause something that looks like a seizure... shaking... falling... yelling... etc. It's something you may want to look into farther to help separate from what was the presence of God and what might have been mystical manipulation.


You wrote:
whenever a part of my 'ministry' did not go well, i was always urged to repent, have more faith, bring it all before the cross and surrender everything because things could not go as i wanted them to. while this may sound right, i felt more condemned than anything and it made me doubt that God really wanted to change me.

3. The Demand for Purity
In the thought reform milieu, as in all situations of ideological totalism, the experiential world is sharply divided into the pure and the impure, into the absolutely good and the absolutely evil. The good and the pure are of course those ideas, feelings, and actions which are consistent with the totalist ideology and policy; anything else is apt to be relegated to the bad and the impure. Nothing human is immune from the flood of stern moral judgments. All "taints" and "poisons" which contribute to the existing state of impurity must be searched out and eliminated.

The philosophical assumption underlying this demand is that absolute purity is attainable, and that anything done to anyone in the name of this purity is ultimately moral. In actual practice, however, no one is really expected to achieve such perfection. Nor can this paradox be dismissed as merely a means of establishing a high standard to which all can aspire. Thought reform bears witness to its more malignant consequences: for by defining and manipulating the criteria of purity, and then by conducting an all-out war upon impurity, the ideological totalists create a narrow world of guilt and shame. This is perpetuated by an ethos of continuous reform, a demand that one strive permanently and painfully for something which not only does not exist but is in fact alien to the human condition.

i was always sinful, like my sins were emphasized so much (even though we also talked about the cross and Jesus).

4. The Cult of Confession
Closely related to the demand for absolute purity is an obsession with personal confession. Confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal, and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself. There is the demand that one confess to crimes one has not committed, to sinfulness that is artificially induced, in the name of a cure that is arbitrarily imposed. Such demands are made possible not only by the ubiquitous human tendencies toward guilt and shame but also by the need to give expression to these tendencies. In totalist hands, confession becomes a means of exploiting, rather than offering solace for, these vulnerabilities.

You wrote:
people thought really highly about this leader, and i myself wanted to be just like him because it seemed that he knew how to live the christian life and be a successful minister.

5. The "Sacred Science"
The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic dogma, holding it out as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the Word, the present bearers of the Word, and the Word itself. While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute "scientific" precision.

You wrote:

if anyone left this christian group, we didn't really talk about them; i felt like it was almost taboo to discuss it. there was some emphasis on authority and on obedience and i always felt disobedient.

6. Doctrine Over Person
This sterile language reflects characteristic feature of ideological totalism: the subordination of human experience to the claims of doctrine. This primacy of doctrine over person is evident in the continual shift between experience itself and the highly abstract interpretation of such experience - between genuine feelings and spurious cataloguing of feelings. It has much to do with the peculiar aura of half-reality which totalist environment seems, at least to the outsider, to possess.

7. The Dispensing of Existence
The totalist environment - even when it does not resort to physical abuse - thus stimulates in everyone a fear of extinction or annihilation. One is ever made aware that, should he stray too far along this "erroneous path," his right to existence may be withdrawn.

[leelees]

thought id go for a bit of colour today!

*people there seemed to be really on fire for God, and i believe that they were genuinely sincere about it.
Yeah people in my ex church were, well are, genuinely saved christians, they are very sincere about everything but they are sucked up into my ex pastors ways and thinkings

*many times i genuinely felt like i experienced God, even in powerful ways.
God was and is evidently with my ex curch because He's seen them through some hard times; as great as this is it adds to my guilt because if God is there then im obviously wrong and everythings my fault!

*i got the underlying feeling that leaders were better than those under them. it's hard to explain because so many things sounded right (and were right in fact)
My ex p(astor) used his authority (and im sure he still does) to guilt people and shame them as he did with me and other people!

*my mom asked me a few times if i was in a cult. but to be honest i didn't want to miss, because sometimes God did meet us powerfully.
yeah my mum and dad both thought my old church was a cult, and to some extent they were right but i didnt want to admit it and also i cudnt see it! my old church isnt like a jehovahs witness or mormon faith but i can see now that there are similarities! even after i left people were angry at the way i got treated but i still didnt want to believe it and justified all what went on! I can tell you now that i am not as supportive to the church although i still feel immense guilt etc but im am angry aswell!

*if anyone left this christian group, we didn't really talk about them; i felt like it was almost taboo to discuss it.
oh yes i know this bit only too well! anyone who left my old church you just didnt talk about or speak to them, you avoided them! havin left my church i have had not one fone call to see how i am, someone sent my mum a christmas card but not me...im findin this bit really hard to accept cos i was friends with these people for 5 and a half years...its like theyve all died or something, its heartbreaking!

*there was some emphasis on authority and on obedience
my ex p used his authority in a wrong way but when ur there you cant see it and the leaders make sure you dont ask questions about anything, even people who left!

*people thought really highly about this leader, and i myself wanted to be just like him because it seemed that he knew how to live the christian life and be a successful minister.
yeah i thought highly of my ex p because when i was there he prayed all the time, had spiritual convosations all the time, he read loads of books etc so i wanted to be as godly as he was! i can say now that im not!

*i have trouble discerning whether or not this was spiritual abuse because 1) my perceptions could have been wrong and 2) other people in the group don't seem to have been negatively affected like i was (some people, perhaps, those who had been hurt in the past, but for most people it seemed like being a part of this group was beneficial for them).
yeah i had this aswell, and still do to a large extent!


i would suggest you get in contact with people who used to speak to who left, it may be hard and embarrassing to but its made me see things as they really are and not believe wot my ex leaders said about them...things were said to people who left that just were not true! and continue to post on here and vent, there are special people here who will be there for you as am i..feel free to vent ...its helped me alot!

[SpinningHead]

Hi Nikkig,

Welcome.

After reading your post & trying hard not to project my own experiences into yours although it would be too easy...I think it comes down to this...

Your instincts are giving you a red flag warning. You don't always have to understand exactly why, but it's there. No shame in honoring that and you don't have to announce it either...just know it, and tread carefully.

How many times I (ok, so I'm going to project a little) have had a "feeling" about someone/something and I didn't know why...I once told my hubby about 2 men in our chuch that I couldn't figure out why, but I didn't like them. Hubby told me I was being judgemental and non-Christian and non-loving. I couldn't shake the mistrust...they were too, too, too...smarmy. too smiley, too charming...too something. In the end, did I EVER turn out to be more than 100% dead on about those guys!!!! These guys turned out to be the most evil, manipulating, lieing shmooozers in the core of that church! The lies! The lies!! Makes my head spin!

I think your instincts are up and your voice of reason says, but look at the situation...I have no real evidence to say they are this or that...in fact just the opposite! But that little flag is waving in your mind...danger! warning! this doesn't feel right!

Maybe it wasn't this obvious SA that someone else might experience...maybe you were picking up on something that was going on behind the scenes, the Phariseeic feeling you alluded to...maybe it was subtle passive aggressiveness you were picking up on...but funny how we are all relating to you. (not funny as in :D , but hmmmm, funny.)

Check out Carmen's site for book resources. Maybe they'll help you put your finger on it.

God Bless!

[Carmen]

Welcome nikkig,

I agree with Willow. There were many points in your description which make the group seem fishy. I could make a few guesses as to the name...they are active at universities and colleges because students are at an uncertain point in their lives, many are away from home and the support of loved ones, are still finding out who they are, are unsure of themselves even when full of hope for the future. This is a target group of cults. That doesn't mean that your group wasn't Christian, only that they may have availed themselves of some of the same techniques as cults, which would be wrong in any setting, but especially harmful in one that gives the impression that it is safe and harmless. That is why SA can be so devastating - it is like abuse in the family where one is supposed to be protected and safe.

I experienced "God" too, in pentecostal and charismatic circles - at least I thought it was God at the time. When I went back to the beginning, to the experience I had when I was born-again (didn't know that those words applied at the time nor what happened to me - didn't expect it), I realized that the experiences that I had afterward were spiritual but not Godly. Also, they were addictive, that is why I did not want to miss prayer or meetings, otherwise I would miss a move of God, miss experiencing Him. I craved for the next spiritual fix. But I did not after I was born again although that experience was...well, I can't describe it well. God is not addictive. His presence doesn't do that to us. Drugs or alcohol do, and I think that false spirits can do it too. Some say that the experiences are a result of much singing and moving to rhythm like the trances that some African religious groups get themselves into. That could be the case as well.

The group you mentioned uses what I call soft indoctrination. It is common in Catholic circles as well, a lot of self-indoctrination goes on based on expectations felt through peer pressure. These expectations are seldom heard in words but are felt as an attitude. Some Catholic (and Protestant) movements take this attitude a lot farther. Some cults start off with people that way before their expectations are put forth as rules and become more concrete.

Not every expectation is wrong, we should love others as ourselves and encourage them in their Christian walk, but even these good things can be twisted to service bad purposes. Sometimes the deception comes from outside and sometimes we can deceive ourselves.

Before I was SA'd I was chugging headlong at full power with a no-exceptions form of Calvinism. The experience showed me that conservative fanaticism was not the right way, that I would become like the pastor that SA'd me if I continued. I would become heartless and cruel. Jesus wasn't like that. He wasn't milquetoast when he drove the moneychangers out of the temple or when he was dealing with self-righteous Pharisees, but he was kind to sinners even when he did tell them to stop sinning. He was never harsh to those that knew they needed Him.

From about 23 years ago until about three years ago on and off, I was into Word-of-Faith, Kingdom Now, Joel's Army, five-fold doctrine and Apostolic/Prophetic stuff.... I was in and out of Pentecostal and Charismatic churches and when cut off from them kept up with the ideas on TV. I knew what the latest craze was. If a preacher was in town on a crusade I was there. I craved the next spiritual fix when the "Holy Spirit" would descend and "bless" me with his "presence". Looking back, it was all hollow. I don't see all of that really as spiritual abuse, but as spiritual deception. It was a waste of many years that won't come back. I do feel hurt by it, even angry, I hate being lied to.

I see those that did that to me at the worst as false teachers and robbers living off the good will of other's donations and at the least as deceived themselves. Some may see them as abusers. I wouldn't argue with someone that sees them that way, although I think that abuse requires a personal relationship between abused and abuser that is a breach of trust. Some may abuse others without intending to, out of ignorance. I am sure that I have said and done abusive things to others without wanting to, only with the best intentions. Those words and actions were abusive nevertheless.

I think that some organizations and churches encourage abusive environments through the doctrine that they promote. Hubby and I call Scient***** the cult for ass*****. They seem to gather and prosper there. Even what some call sound doctrine can be twisted if it makes people mean and unloving, willing to prey on each other, as I perceived some teaching was doing to me.

Campus ministries can attract such people, maybe you had a run in with them.

Take what you like and leave the rest.

[jane]

Everyone has already written so much wisdom, so let me just say,

welcome to our group.

are you still with that ministry or in a new one?

jane

[Beautiful_Dreamer]

Yes, I would say that sounds like abuse to me. Any group that seeks to control everything you do to the extent you describe and gives the type of distorted image of God that was given is not a good place for you to be. Our God is a God of love, and so many people seem to forget that and focus on the judgement side of it. I hope you find a place where you can grow and not feel so burdened.

[nikkig]

thanks to all who posted replies...i will try to e-mail some of the people who have left. and to answer jane, while i'm no longer under this particular leader, i still belong to the overall organization. however, since having changed leaders, i feel more freedom (or at the very least i have been able to be honest with myself and with God about the anger and other things i've felt but repressed--not just about this but also other things in my life). i guess one of the things that has been puzzling me is how an organization that is trying its best to live a Spirit-led life could have as one of its leaders someone who (maybe unintentionally) did promote legalism in those under his care.

[Kerrin]

while i'm no longer under this particular leader, i still belong to the overall organization. however, since having changed leaders, i feel more freedom (or at the very least i have been able to be honest with myself and with God about the anger and other things i've felt but repressed--not just about this but also other things in my life). i guess one of the things that has been puzzling me is how an organization that is trying its best to live a Spirit-led life could have as one of its leaders someone who (maybe unintentionally) did promote legalism in those under his care.

I think this is what I struggle with.
Because my abuse happened in a denominational Anglican , (respected in the community ) Church, I am having a difficult time finding another Anglican, Cof E, Methodist, Catholic, whatever, that doesn't revere it's Minister (pastor), more than Jesus!!

I have attempted to try a couple of new ones, (including some other non denominational groups, but they are even more scary to me...with all the hoopla and shouting, casting out demons when you are a visitor!!!:eek: .... only to 'see' the same habits and practices, just disguised in a different cloak as it were..........

I wouldn't bother trying to 'figure' out how "spirit led organizations" can have such legalistic, (abusive), leaders.
They are pretty good at flying under the radar when it suits to cover their tracks and appear to be doing all the 'right' things by their ministries....

When I REALLY look at the Anglican church here , there are no checks and balances really, there is NO accountability, and any one who makes waves, (such as 'moi'), is demon possessed and not "christ-like" so influenced by satan etc......and not taken serioulsy.
That has been my experience anyway.
Even complaints to the Bishop have been a waste of time......especially the sexual abuse issues, they just hate that one !!!!
(I am referred to as Jezebell now by my ex Vicar!!That is what he tells, (and told ),my so-called friends who no longer speak to me!
It really hurt for a long time, but this Forum is helping me a lot.
I am, after some faltering and bad experiences last year, going to keep trying to find somewhere that isn't secretive to begin with!!!!
( mainly because I am really tired of the lonliness, and I miss the fellowship badly now...):o

I'm glad you're out of there anyway fwiw!;)
Much love ,
Kerrin;)

[jane]

Hi,

i guess one of the things that has been puzzling me is how an organization that is trying its best to live a Spirit-led life could have as one of its leaders someone who (maybe unintentionally) did promote legalism in those under his care.

Kerrin already hit it on the head....

We too tried to understand how people who so seemingly want to follow Jesus are doing things so contrary to what it seemed Jesus is doing...they were controlling and hurting others...and also being spirit led.


For my husband and I, it came down to this; They are still human.

I think we as christians mistake being spirit led for meaning that God is in control of everything a spirit led person is doing...

they are still human. Even Paul said that he was chief of sinners.

Control and legalism in my opinion comes from a foundation of fear and insecurity..afraid that things won't be the way God wants them...but it is still sin, and that leader is still a mere man.

Our church had another disease...I guess it would be fair to say that most churches are man made and would have a sin or weakness of some kind.

The difference is in finding a group of people who acknowledge that we are mere men trying to walk in the path of Jesus, trying to be led by the spirit but always checking ourselves, taking our own inventory, listening to people when they tell us that we might be hurting them.... really being honest with ourselves and others. If we are in a group that listens, allows for healthy boundaries, people ask for forgiveness if they've wronged you...and the relationship building is from strength to strength; then I 'd say you are in a pretty good group.

If there is scapegoating, no boundaries, critical jokes from the pulpit, shame based techniques to make you comply with their view of righteousness.... I could go on and on... lack of humility, serving a leader not Christ, teaching people to come to leaders for counsel without teaching them to talk to Christ himself... well these are all dysfunctional signs to me.... and more like a group is going from bondage to bondage...

do you get what I am trying to say?

I am glad you are out of that original group. My advice? If I should even give any... is to pray....and if you hear that he is still doing the same behaviors, let one of your healthier leaders know what you went through.... maybe someone could help him...but it shouldn't be you...often the old role can be played out and you just might be under his control again.

anyway, just my 2cents, take what you will and throw away the rest.

love,
jane

[ex-shep]

I did send you a private message with some resources as well.

I lost a friend to what was 20 years ago a legalistic controlling shepherding group. I recognize the performance dance of "you are not ________ enough"
The blanks could be filled with praying, reading, faithful, witnessing, tithing ad naseum. It is a great blame the victim which any christian could do without.

Sorry to hear of it. Keep on posting. A belated welcome aboard.