12 Christian beliefs.....crazy

[Enochwar]

I've hit a snag in this book....I'm slowly going through it....well actually skipping through....

Due to my short attention span :D ...I'm going directly to the issues that I have trouble with....in other words I'm not reading cover to cover :eek:

Anyway...False assumption #7 "If I have God, I don't need people."

I've kind of believed that one....

I've often isolated myself from others in order to "be alone with God"...:) ...

Now that I am (or rather feel) isolated from people in church (not because they are shunning me or anything, but because I can't bring myself to go along with what has been happening) I feel the need for others....to hear and be heard....I HATE BEING NEEDY! (Is there a frustation smilie?) :p

In the book on page 127, top paragraph...it reads
"Learning about God. We learn about God's character from our human relationships. That's why the Bible says that 'anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.' (I john 4:20) People who are disconnected and enstranged from each other have a more difficult time knowing and being close to God."

Okay this sucks! :confused: :( :mad:

I desperately desire to be close to God....how can I ....I mean.....who do I turn to?

I guess the problem is with the church pushing this "connection" thing....it just sets me off....I don't trust them.....the book says to connect with healthy people.

Is a healthy person someone who "gets the job done", to the detriment of others?

Do you get where I'm trying to come from? :( ....Am I doomed to seek relationship in cyberspace?....

I've withdrawn from church activities, except helping my husband greet. Do I need to get involved with the people at church in order to "be close to God"?

Maybe some outside activities or non-church volunteer work? (problem...time...make time?)

If you can work through my confusion..do you have any suggestions?

Family? Pay less attention to that hour at church and more to the 24/7 at home?

I'm also trying to work through issues with my weight...(please no diet plans):D :rolleyes: (Thanks anyway....willpower is shot! It goes much deeper than that)

Am I taking up too much....perhaps I should stick to my New Year's resolution to gain weight....exercise less....eat more junk food....and stop reading self-help books....broken already...;) :D

But seriously....any suggestions?

Enochwar, out.

[Jerry]

Dear Enochwar,,,
Yes we need time alone with God,,,,but not to the exclution of people all together.........God created us to be with Him and each other,,,,,,Did God not say,,,,"It is not good that man should be alone" ?????
Love Jerry

[Jam Night]

The Bible also says that wherever two or more are gathered in His name, there He is in there midst. We see the truly miracles of God in our ability to love each other despite each other.

I understand the desire to be seperate, as I have stated before I used to down right struggle with becoming a hermit in the woods. It's hard realizing your needy. The truth is EVERYBODY is needy, the people we call 'needy' tend to just be the ones who are honest and open about it. People will sometimes avoid 'needy' people because of what it might reveal in themselves. Don't give up on folks, but understand they are just FOLKS, they aren't God and so they will inevitably dissapoint you, just like you will dissapoint them at some point. Expect God to never fail, expect people to fail and allow your love for each other to overcome the failures. That's where God is really seen in our midst.

I wish I had a good cure for weight lose. In America where we ingrain into people this image of a skinny person as the only thing that is acceptible, it is extremely hard to be 'overweight' and still feel as though you are a good person. But YOU ARE. Your body has nothing to do with the state of your spirit. I could all day and sit on my tail and I will still be skinny, whereas I have a friend who walk 8 miles a day, does sit ups and jumping jacks, eats healthy and is still overweight. He's lost a lot but he will always be 'big,' it's just his body type, and next to some folks he will ALWAYS look overweight, even though he is healthier than I am!!

[gwen]

Dear Enochwar...

Yes, I "hear" you!!! Sometimes isolating ourselves is our way of dealing with the stress that these people cause us! I began to isolate myself as much as I could without drawing attention to myself for the last year and a half that we attended our former "church". I don't personally believe that you need to get close to the "church people" to be close to God...especially with the issues that you've been describing. How can you get close to people if you don't trust what's going on?

And about the weight loss situation...you won't hear me saying a word to you about that one!!! I have my own issues in that area!!! ;)

Take care!
Love, Gwen

[searching]

I desperately desire to be close to God....how can I ....I mean.....who do I turn to?

I guess the problem is with the church pushing this "connection" thing....it just sets me off....I don't trust them.....the book says to connect with healthy people.

:( ....Am I doomed to seek relationship in cyberspace?....


Hello - I am new to this group but your struggle is very real to me too. I would like to encourage you and say that in my experience, having cyber-space friends has been a life-saver.

We left a very abusive church after 6 1/2 years. None of the people there were allowed to fellowship with us afterwards (of course it was because we had 'left God' - or so they were told). It was very lonely in the 'real' world and we spent much time going from church to church to try and find a safe place. One thing I found is that most people have no idea what it is like to be in an abusive church or why people stay in them as long as they do - unless they have experienced it themselves.

Online you can be open and honest about your feelings - the hurt, anger, betrayal, doubt, or whatever you are going through. There is a certain anonymity that allows us to share with others who have been there - and made it through to the other side. I believe Jesus can minister to us and through us this way.

I had many things that I was confused about and ashamed of when we broke free. When I tried to talk to normal people (even pastors) they were kind but mostly I heard "it's time to get over it and move on". Well, I had to go through my grieving process first because what I had lost was very dear to my heart for many years. I felt like I had to be re-born-again if that makes sense. People online who had gone through the abusive church experience helped me keep going.

Hang in there - take advantage of the avenue you have in this forum - it will bring healing and God will be your guide.

In Christ,
Beth

[Carmen]

Online you can be open and honest about your feelings - the hurt, anger, betrayal, doubt, or whatever you are going through. There is a certain anonymity that allows us to share with others who have been there - and made it through to the other side. I believe Jesus can minister to us and through us this way.

Hi Beth, welcome. :) I agree.

Hi Enochwar, I'm battling with those issues too. Connecting without going along with various manipulations is almost impossible where I live. The Catholics try the soft indoctrination, the Pentecostals have the hard one. I can't really go anywhere at the moment. The Baptists which are farther away are open to Alpha and Warren - though are not PDC. That could change if they start the 40 days program. Was kicked out of the Reformed church - though afterward I saw that it was a good thing, almost blundered into a sect-like church there - not necessarily due to the doctrine but to the personality of the pastor. The system is very authoritarian and can therefore be easily misused. The Lutherans are too far away for me to go regularly, but I will be cooperating with them somewhat as they most likely have the proper material for a bible study I am planning. Other alternatives are not available nearby, that is why I want to get the bible study going.

Don't feel pressured to do anything you are not comfortable with and don't feel guilty about not doing anything churchwise. If you are not genuinely behind what you do, God would know, so just going through the motions wouldn't satisfy him. Just be yourself. Being with one or two Christians every so often is enough, even if you might feel like more or more often are necessary, you don't need to be in a crowd to be Christian.

Have got to deal with the weight issue too, am not pointing fingers. Physically I can't stand myself at the moment and must do something to lose weight - I can't afford new clothes.

[jarofclay]

False assumption #7 "If I have God, I don't need people."

Hi Enochwar,
I have related to this to a great degree myself, only I often find it difficult to go to God because of the lies I was told that I am unwanted by anyone (God included).. which means I feel very alone. Alone is no fun - yet it is oddly comfortable.

I hate feeling needy too - as though it is some huge weakness and deficit to own.

People who are disconnected and enstranged from each other have a more difficult time knowing and being close to God."

boy oh boy do I relate to that! I too desire closeness with God.. and often feel it to be so far out of reach that I give up, and then crawl back again over & over. Being brought up to believe that one only gets approval by "doing" or "performing" leaves one feeling they can never have such a relationship.

I once heard a speaker who had such problems for many years until the Lord broke through.. She said that we need to become vulnerable to others again irl, and take the chance to trust again. (yuck) I must admit, this isn't something I desire, and although I think about it often, I have yet to allow myself to do so. It seems like so much work ..*sigh.. Yet I know in my heart it holds truth. Now the question for me is "how can I do this when I am so hesitant to get to know Christians, yet I know God is the answer?" It is true God has worked thru others before to minister to me and help me.. and it is also true that God has broken thru to me on occassion Himself (without the help of people - although they were probably praying). I much prefer the later - where it is Him and not Him thru people.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone in your struggles and that I relate in so many facets.

safe hug,
jarofclay

[agapeluv]

This is another good discussion. Enocwar, we definately need people in our lives, BUT I have learned to pick and choose who I talk to about certain areas, IE---grief is the biggy !!! I have had WAY MORE encouragement from online friends that people I know face to face. Even then I have learned you have to be careful. when I first lost my mom and grandaughter as you know I had little support from the church. Our FORMER pastor thought it was horrible that I went online when I had such a LOVING CHURCH FAMILY----LOL. I got into an email grief support group but it brought more grief to me as it was mainly ladies who had lost their own children. My heart grieved so heavily for them that they would contact me constantly to help them with their grief. I would read their stories and bawl my eyes out. Some of them thought I was so strong that I was handeling my own grief just fine. I started getting emails from a few of them saying, IF YOU THINK IT IS HARD LOOSING A GRANDCHILD , TRY LOOSING YOUR OWN CHILD. That hurt a lot, so I got out and continued to look elsewhere for people who would understand. I knew even though I was hurt by people, I still needed people, I just needed to find the right ones, I got into a Christian support group for fibromyalgia, but some of them were like the others, GET OVER IT, we have all lost loved ones before. I kept looking until I finally found this place. Here are a group of people who have also been hurt, yet full of love for others. PEOPLE WHO NEED SOMEONE TO LIFT THEM UP , PRAY FOR THEM, LOVE THEM NO MATTER WHAT THE DENOMINATION, AND NOT MAKE THEM FEEL THAT THEY ARE NOT IMPORTANT.

JAR OF CLAY----Welcome to the board. I am so sorry about the remark someone made to you about how God feels about you. I am sure glad the God we know is not like that. YOU ARE IMPORTANT TO HIM, just as much as anybody else. GLAD YOU FOUND YOUR WAY HERE.

[Carmen]

I have related to this to a great degree myself, only I often find it difficult to go to God because of the lies I was told that I am unwanted by anyone (God included).. which means I feel very alone. Alone is no fun - yet it is oddly comfortable.
Hi jarofclay, welcome!

How can any one person even dare to think he knows the mind of God enough to tell another that God doesn't want him? :mad: How uncouth! :eek: Over a year ago a pastor told me a lot of bs that made me think God didn't want me either, at least for a short while. All hot air.

I understand the loneliness, mine is part enforced, part chosen. In part I can't go to one church, was kicked out by that pastor - wouldn't go back if wild horses were behind me. Can't go to others in the area because they teach a lot of humbug. Some fairly acceptable ones are too far away.

Due to the way I grew up, I rather prefer to be alone, but see that I need others, at least sometimes. Sometimes they need me, but pretty rarely except for Hubby and the kids.

Legalism and judging are kept away from here pretty effectively, it is safe here. We are all needy, otherwise we wouldn't be here. Don't feel like you must encourage others if you are not up to it yet. Everyone is acceptable here the way he is.

Nice to have you here. :)

[Reg]

snip Anyway...False assumption #7 "If I have God, I don't need people."

I've kind of believed that one....

I've often isolated myself from others in order to "be alone with God"...:) ...

Now that I am (or rather feel) isolated from people in church (not because they are shunning me or anything, but because I can't bring myself to go along with what has been happening) I feel the need for others....to hear and be heard....I HATE BEING NEEDY! (Is there a frustation smilie?) :p

In the book on page 127, top paragraph...it reads
"Learning about God. We learn about God's character from our human relationships. That's why the Bible says that 'anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.' (I john 4:20) People who are disconnected and enstranged from each other have a more difficult time knowing and being close to God."

Okay this sucks! :confused: :( :mad:

I desperately desire to be close to God....how can I ....I mean.....who do I turn to?

I guess the problem is with the church pushing this "connection" thing....it just sets me off....I don't trust them.....the book says to connect with healthy people.

Is a healthy person someone who "gets the job done", to the detriment of others?
NO!

Do you get where I'm trying to come from? :( ....Am I doomed to seek relationship in cyberspace?.... NO!

I've withdrawn from church activities, except helping my husband greet. Do I need to get involved with the people at church in order to "be close to God"? NO!

Maybe some outside activities or non-church volunteer work? YES ! (problem...time...make time?)

If you can work through my confusion..do you have any suggestions?

Family? Pay less attention to that hour at church and more to the 24/7 at home?

I'm also trying to work through issues with my weight...(please no diet plans):D :rolleyes: (Thanks anyway....willpower is shot! It goes much deeper than that)

Am I taking up too much....perhaps I should stick to my New Year's resolution to gain weight....exercise less....eat more junk food....and stop reading self-help books....broken already...;) :D

But seriously....any suggestions?

Enochwar, out.
Do what you really enjoy doing. For me it's golf. It connects me with people and most are not Christian, yet I have a lot of fun with them and frankly feel more comfortable around them than those at church. One of them had a birthday party for me to celebrate my 60th last year. My golfing buddies were there. Had a great time and he bought me a Monte Cristo Cuban cigar. Man was it ever good.

Not any of my church friends did that for me. Just try to stay open to possibilities outside your church. There are a lot of great people out there. Just try not to be afraid. Be wise and careful but not fearful. Stay close to God. He knows.

It's like the saying at the bottom of me posts.

Reg "If we want to set our lives right and find peace, it is not the tolerant attitude of others that will do it for us. It will come about, rather, by our learning how to show compassion to them..... If we do not seek liberation from our obsessions, then becoming more withdrawn and less social may even make us more blind to them, since it can mask them." - John Cassian (He lived between 360 and 430 A.D. He was a monk in Bethlehem and Egypt.)

[jarofclay]

hey Carman.. thanks for the welcome!

Myself, I love the broken Christians - the ones who are struggling with stuff too.. these are the ones I relate to & can be real with.

Know what I do when I meet a Christian for the first time?.. lol.. I will feel them out as much as possible and then I will slip a few curse words into the conversation just to see how they will react. If they get that "you're a heathen" look on their face, or look shocked, then I know I probably don't want to get to know them further. But if they don't miss a beat and dont look surprised, or they say something like "I understand how u feel" after I say my mild swear word, then I know they are probably pretty trustworthy unjudgemental Christians. I use this test a LOT. hee hee :o

[jjc9497]

Hey, I like your little "test". I'll try that one!!

As for being isolated and not connected---let's all DO IT TOGETHER!!!!!!:D :D :D :D

As for losing weight, my creepy shrink is sure good with pills--he put me on amphetamines to help my depression :eek: . Gee--maybe I won't have to diet afterall. :rolleyes: