View Full Version : Thinking out loud, again
Joseph
12-30-2005, 04:40 AM
I read Kerrin's response on a post, and she mentioned how she was ready to have a child at 38 if pastor didn't get in the way. Not to wallow in despair, just reflecting, it made me think of how different life wouuld be right now if "pastor hadn't gotten in the way".
There are no definates, but I most likely would have been remarried, a strong business with my wife assisting and supporting me, probably still have my house, plus a variety of smaller life affecting things.
I take responsibility for the decisions I make for my life, but it goes to show how allowing someone get involved in your life and letting them mis-guide you can be devastating & life altering.
I don't mean to bring anyone down, and I am moving on and rebuilding, I guess I'm just thinking outloud.
Joe
(Jam, take it easy on me buddy, take a deep breath, just kidding)
Janice
12-30-2005, 05:02 AM
I take responsibility for the decisions I make for my life, but it goes to show how allowing someone get involved in your life and letting them mis-guide you can be devastating & life altering.
I don't mean to bring anyone down, and I am moving on and rebuilding, I guess I'm just thinking outloud.
Think outload anytime Joe. I agree with you. Allowing certain people to get involved in your life CAN be devestating and life altering.
But...I have two choices..let it "eat me alive", or "move on.
It's a brand new year. The past has passed that's why they call it the past. :D The hurt and pain I've experienced because I trusted others... I'm considering it a "learning experience." I'm sure the trust will return in time but, my guard is definately up.
Jerry
12-30-2005, 05:02 AM
I read Kerrin's response on a post, and she mentioned how she was ready to have a child at 38 if pastor didn't get in the way. Not to wallow in despair, just reflecting, it made me think of how different life wouuld be right now if "pastor hadn't gotten in the way".
There are no definates, but I most likely would have been remarried, a strong business with my wife assisting and supporting me, probably still have my house, plus a variety of smaller life affecting things.
I take responsibility for the decisions I make for my life, but it goes to show how allowing someone get involved in your life and letting them mis-guide you can be devastating & life altering.
I don't mean to bring anyone down, and I am moving on and rebuilding, I guess I'm just thinking outloud.
Joe
(Jam, take it easy on me buddy, take a deep breath, just kidding)
Dear Joe,,,
That S/O/B that misguided you will get his,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just a thought outloud too :D
Love Jerry
Willow
12-30-2005, 05:04 AM
That really sucks Joe. But... you are making a great rebound! I still think you need to expose that crooked pastor of yours. Understand the trauma would be a bit much though and the fear of being dragged through the mud again. I get so angry when I think of how he's duping people :mad:
The taking of responsibility about how we let people interfere with our lives was a huge stepping stone for me. When I grasped the fact that I and I alone was responsible for my life and where it headed... I was able to grab the reins and jerk it on track pretty fast. I still feel guilt for all the years I was an overgrown child and my parents suffered for it.
Jerry
12-30-2005, 05:29 AM
I still feel guilt for all the years I was an overgrown child and my parents suffered for it.
Don't we all ????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ;)
Love Jerry
Jam Night
12-30-2005, 07:12 AM
I am breathing!! :)
Our pastor was recently preaching about how God is ready and willing to move in us in miraclulous ways and then we don't allow Him, we look to someone else to be the leader or the 'faith-worker,' and that's when our position gets dangerous, that's when we become prone to setting up pastors and other people in place of God.
I think that is the danger, when we become convinced that someone else is more qualified or has a greater right to access God than us, when even if someone has greater scriptural knowledge, it's the heart that He is concerned with.
I can't imagine how different my life would be - but I don't know if it would be better. I know things now and have a peace now that I don't think I could have comprehended without going through. In any case - I thank God for having the patience to pull me through.
Exhale.
Meg Evenstar
12-30-2005, 07:55 AM
I read Kerrin's response on a post, and she mentioned how she was ready to have a child at 38 if pastor didn't get in the way. Not to wallow in despair, just reflecting, it made me think of how different life wouuld be right now if "pastor hadn't gotten in the way".
There are no definates, but I most likely would have been remarried, a strong business with my wife assisting and supporting me, probably still have my house, plus a variety of smaller life affecting things.
I take responsibility for the decisions I make for my life, but it goes to show how allowing someone get involved in your life and letting them mis-guide you can be devastating & life altering.
I don't mean to bring anyone down, and I am moving on and rebuilding, I guess I'm just thinking outloud.
Joe
(Jam, take it easy on me buddy, take a deep breath, just kidding)
Joe, I wonder about the same thing. I also wonder why it took me so long to finally grow up. As a child I was taught to respect people in authority such as teachers, police officers and pastors. Now I have learned that does not mean allowing them to walk all over you. Some people are due no respect even though I would not treat them as they treat me.
Meg
truth
12-30-2005, 07:56 AM
I
I take responsibility for the decisions I make for my life, but it goes to show how allowing someone get involved in your life and letting them mis-guide you can be devastating & life altering.
I don't mean to bring anyone down, and I am moving on and rebuilding, I guess I'm just thinking outloud.
Joe
This is so true....I did it too - all my life....
Ironically, I watched a movie last night --- this young woman fell madly, hopelessly in love with a young man from "the wrong side of the tracks" .... her parents, the war, everything separated them from one another (although they never forgot each other) she was set to marry someone I belive that she did love (although not in the same way as the original young man) but then she and the original young man got reunited.....so there she was - trying to make this decision and finally the young man yells at her "It's not what your parents want, it's not even what I want it's --- what do YOU really want?????!" and boy did that question ever stick with me --- for some of us, maybe, it's time to answer that question.....
Joe-
I totally understand what you are saying.....
the thing about abusive dysfunctional controlling leaders is that the abuse is often subtle...if we knew where their path would lead us; we would not choose to go down it.
How could Hitler have succeeded if people weren't slowly brainwashed, flags and music were used to manipulate them (we had similar music and flags in my first church :rolleyes:) and techniques that were clever and over a period time followed by a promise of torture or death for non-compliance????
Some things in life we have no control over and that is what this is about.
My husband's childhood friend whom I will call Tom.....brought my husband to the Lord and to the church that we would meet and serve in for about 9 years....
he is 42 and never been married...
Was dating my childhood friend last year, going to get married....(wrote about this in other posts).
The wedding was cancelled a few days before the ceremony.
WHY?
Well, he just saw him again the other night. A group of 7 men get together every christmas and for their birthdays since they graduated from high school. My husband asked him, "so are you guys still going to get married?"
My husband for the first time realized that he was talking to a brainwashed robotron and not his friend. This was his reply,
"NO WAY> thank God for pastoral counseling. During counseling I told her that I held the office of a deacon and she just did not 'get it". She expected me to be home for dinners and her expectations took no consideration for my position."
The thing is, our friend is not JUST the deacon, he is the administrator of helps ministry (which is ALL the ministries except the pastor). He spends his life at church and even slept on the alter one night while setting up for the church.... the church would fall apart without him; the pastor would actually have to work a little bit.
So ironic that the "pastoral counseling" pointed out to him the lack of respect she had for his office of deacon....when all she was looking for was a husband to be home once in a while for dinner.
Bless you brother, I will pray (if it is ok with you) that you will find peace, and forgiveness for yourself, and new hope for the future.....
You honestly can not contol some things that happen.....and for me, looking back turns me to salt (depressed and without hope for walking into the future).
love you,
jane
for some of us, maybe, it's time to answer that question.....
BINGO!
and the truth as I have found it is that when we answer those questions honestly, the people around us are also free to answer their questions honestly--- and PREFER US in that role as opposed to the role of pretending and leaving them to second guessing!
ironic, isn't it? We think we are pleasing other's around us and the one's who truely love us are happier when we are honest and being ourselves!
love,
jane
we look to someone else to be the leader or the 'faith-worker,' and that's when our position gets dangerous, that's when we become prone to setting up pastors and other people in place of God.
some pastors set themselves up in place of God and we are forced to believe it or our characters are assassinated.
that is when my position got dangerous, when I tried to follow my own heart about what God was doing in my life and not swimming with the school of fish...
the blind lambs being led to slaughter...
wasn't even questionning anyone else's ministry or call; just wanting to miss a meeting one night to take care of my son with special needs. All of a sudden I was not committed to "THE VISION"..... was too "self focused to be used by GOD".
It was just ONE meeting and I was there the other 6 days of the week....
JAM- just giving another perspective so that you know. Your pastor may be healthy and pointing ya'll to Jesus but there are other's who are pointing the Lord's sheep to themselves....
love,
jane
jjc9497
12-30-2005, 02:51 PM
BINGO!
and the truth as I have found it is that when we answer those questions honestly, the people around us are also free to answer their questions honestly--- and PREFER US in that role as opposed to the role of pretending and leaving them to second guessing!
ironic, isn't it? We think we are pleasing other's around us and the one's who truely love us are happier when we are honest and being ourselves!
love,
jane
And the ones who don't like us being honest and ourselves don't love us.
Joseph
12-30-2005, 06:06 PM
Yeah Janice, that's exactly what I'm doin, in a big way, movin on.
Willow, I thought many times about going after him and I have discussed it with people in govenment and law. As much as we talk about it here, I just don't know if I really want to do it and go through all that again. Those people took enough from me and I don't want to waste another minute on them, good or bad. I really do believe that God will take care of all these misleaders, and that does give me some peace.
In February I am playing drums at a Christian concert in one of the biggest churches in upstate NY., it's my old stompin ground and I know alot of people from church will probably be there. I play with a very close friend whose like us, he has his own music ministry and travels from church to church, he's a fabulous musician and I really enjoy playing with him. But anyway, it will be interesting, there's no layin low when your on stage for 1 1/2 hours, Ha, Ha. But I don't relish the thought of being amongst them.
Quote
(I can't imagine how different my life would be - but I don't know if it would be better.)
Jam, Dude, I new you were gonna say that!!! Your getting predictable brother!
You are right about looking up to someone else to be a leader, thats a fault I think alot of Christians have, good point.
Truth, That's also a good analogy, we as people are generally people pleasers, we love attention when it's given and we go out of our way to do what people would like so we can please them. We need to know what we want.
Jane, I think subtle is the key. I've heard the term "Passive aggression", and that is exactly what is happening, it starts off quiet and innocent, then as the power grows so does the aggression. Even the mafia will be your best friend right up to when they kill you.
Also, that story you told about your husbands friend, I've seen it at least a dozen times and a similar thing happened to me costing me a relationship.
This topic is probably the most triggering for me (and I brought it up) and it's okay because I like to confront my demons and deal with them, it's the only way that I feel I can put it to rest.
Joe
Willow
12-30-2005, 10:23 PM
Hey... triggering is not so good. Hope you are taking care of yourself.
Totally understand not wanting to dig the dirt up with your former pastor... I won't mention it again. I guess I'm just appalled at his success... this is projecting my former cult leader stuff onto your present situation. However... God is well able to bring them to accountability... much better than we could.
Drums??? I'm totally impressed... I LOVE music!!!! I have a Djembe drum... does that count? When I know there's an open music jam, sometimes I'll take it with me rather than a guitar. Drums are so much more fun!
Joseph
12-31-2005, 06:14 AM
Don't worry about triggering with me Amy, you can talk about anything, I appreciate your cander.
Yeah, I have fun playing. Not to bring up a sore subject but I just had to sell my set Yamaha's because I don't have a house anymore to play them in and I'm limited in my church appearences, very limited. I am going to look for an electronic set, Roland or Yamaha, they're quiet and I can practice at any hour. I put those headphones on and check out of the world for an hour or so, it's nice.
I love the Djembe, I played on one once, they have beautiful tone, alot different from the conga. I have a friend from Kenya that told me how to make one, over there they are required to make them in school growing up, it's pretty neat! There is a guy in Florida who imports the wood drums from Africa and you can buy the goatskins online for the heads, according to the Africans I know that's the best souunding heads.
Sorry to ramble, there is a lot of peace in music I've found.
Joe
Willow
12-31-2005, 07:53 AM
Oh mannn... OUCH... sorry you had to sell your drum set :( The electronic drums aren't quite as tactile as a "real" drum set, but would do in a pinch. I have a friend that makes djembe drums here too. I took a couple of lessons from him on traditional drumming patterns and promptly forgot everthing he taught me... heh. My drum has a goat skin on it. They say to make sure it's from the back of the goat and not the belly. That's cool that all Kenyan's learn to make drums... LOVE IT! Shows you how important it is to their culture. Music is a lot like meditation.... although I don't play nearly as much as I should. I really like to sing too.
anyway... rambling here...
Amy
Just been reading through this thread...I can relate with everything being said. For me, there weren't any devastating physical events (such as divorce, etc.) that took place that would be different in my life. (Except we would definitely have more money, though!...I also miss some of my possessions that I gave away...such as my treadmill) Our family did manage to leave the cult "church" intact. My husband and I are still together (thank God!) and our children left with us, as well. But mentally, things would have been A LOT different. I grieve over what I put my children through...that they had to spend 10 years of their growing up years in "that place". My middle son struggles with leaving his friends behind (and a "special" girl). I am dealing with the residual effects of mind control. It still comes across as shocking when I'm "allowed" to make my own choices these days! When I say, "No, I can't (or don't want) to do that" and other people's responses are, "Okay" when I'm used to being mentally and emotionally beaten for not submitting. So being able to make my own choices after 10 years of NOT being "allowed" to, still amazes me. It's like being let out of prison after being locked up for 10 years. I'm still adjusting to that...Sometimes, I feel like my brain was "rewired" during that 10 years! Now it's trying go back to the original "wiring"!
Gwen
Willow, I thought many times about going after him and I have discussed it with people in govenment and law. As much as we talk about it here, I just don't know if I really want to do it and go through all that again. Those people took enough from me and I don't want to waste another minute on them, good or bad. I really do believe that God will take care of all these misleaders, and that does give me some peace.
Joe
Same here...I just wish my middle son felt the same way...he really wants to "do something"...so the saga continues here...
Joseph
12-31-2005, 01:30 PM
Hi Gwen,
Just an idea, would you consider letting your son express himself on this forum? Maybe venting and hearing some other perspectives might aid in his decision making.
Joe
Hi Gwen,
Just an idea, would you consider letting your son express himself on this forum? Maybe venting and hearing some other perspectives might aid in his decision making.
Joe
I would love for him to get on the forum! I would actually love for all of my family to get on here! They all know about the forum because of the time that I spend on here, plus I share things that I learn from you all with my family.
I'll see what I can do to get him to get on here! It would be good for him to hear from you all...your experiences and your perspectives.
Gwen
Joseph
01-01-2006, 06:47 AM
That's great Gwen, this place has tempered my anger many times by letting me vent and rant, so it might work for him.
Good luck!
Joe
mstar
01-01-2006, 05:04 PM
Thinking out loud and reading about what all you have shared concerning how life would have been different without our abusive church experiences. So I try to think and my brain seems to "lock up" on me. I guess I am still not there enough to deal with those angles. I think I am still in a denial/sorta acceptance/grieving stage. At the moment have lost touch with "how I feel" due to the Christmas season taking a good bit of my energy.
Concerning these bad seasons of life, I do believe that somehow our Lord will redeem them and turn our sorrows into that which is beneficial to His pursoses.
The world is sloppy and most people are a mess. I think that sometimes these times are allowed by our Creator to cause us to lock into His compassion, then pass it on to the others He may lead into our lives, in a similar situation. I do believe He is in control and does not allow bad situations to hit His children at random. That He has a plan for our lives, therefore He is guiding us. So I guess I am saying that somehow through this God will be working it out for our and other's good.
I think our being able to contrubute compassion to one another on this web site is evidence of that. People who have not been tempered by hard times are usually rather shallow. That said, once abuse has been detected, one should not choose to stay in the situation that they might develop character. You protect yourself , your family and get away from it.
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