It does get interesting

[ex-shep]

I did take Jerry up his challenge to do a search engine "Warren Management". I quickly struck out. I put Rick Warren and saw what happened.

http://www.sacredsandwich.com/warren_scripture.htm

The above site does show Warren has some sloppy interpretation. I have seen the same inconsistantcies with the Senior pastor. I am usually good to go back and look at the citations in context. It make one wonder if there is a hidden agenda.

Where I have to be careful is not to get overly paranoid and go back to distrusting every church under the sun. The geographic cure does not cure anything. I cannot leave a church everytime there is something wrong. There is never a perfect church. No easy answer on this one. I am powerless. The AA slogans of take what you like and leave the rest and let go and let God are the best points of reference I have. It get curiouser and curioser.

[jjc9497]

I posted this on another thread, but thought it would fit better here:


Just thinking out loud............................

God uses sinful people to do His work.

Pastors and public speakers are sinful people (some more-so than others)

So am I.

I have seen God use sinful people to declare His message and the message was used by God to change, heal and save people. In fact, God ONLY uses sinful people since Christ was the only perfect human.

Therefore, God can use a sinful person (whether a pastor or even little ol' me) to deliver His message and help others.

Therefore, a pastor who has hurt me may have greatly helped another.

Since I am also sinful, I have probably hurt others as well as helped some.

As long as someone is not shoving it down my throat, I am free to take the good from their message and ignore the rest, as no one will ever deliver a perfect message all the time.

I don't know--guess I'm just so tired of it all.

At least in heaven, we will all be on the same page.

[Janice]

At least in heaven, we will all be on the same page.[/QUOTE]

Somedays I'd like to get there fater then others! :rolleyes:

[ex-shep]

[QUOTE=jjc9497]I posted this on another thread, but thought it would fit better here:




Just thinking out loud............................

God uses sinful people to do His work.

Thought did cross my mind this morning.

[Hope 98]

OK - this point jumped out at me.

God uses sinful people, because Jesus Christ was the only perfect human.

It could be said that he has no other choice, but then, He set up the system Himself...Selah...

If God sent His only begotten Son - the only perfect human - to die for all of us who are sinful, who are we to determine who is too sinful for fellowship, and which sins are worse than others?

So what are we doing here?

Some seem to think we are being judgmental of pastors and other leaders - perhaps, being at least as sinful as they are.

I think we are trying to reassure each other that in spite of what some self-proclaimed possesors of superior righteousness have tried to tell us, Jesus died for us too.

Blessings all.

[jane]

Jesus did die for us.

and no one is perfect.

however, we also have a responsibility to test what we are teaching and who we are following.

To look honestly at someone's sermons, books, tapes and preachings is not a sin. To have an opinion or a question is not a sin.

Jesus answered questions, told us to test for false teachers and people who would lead us astray.

To question warren or anyone else...is to be doing what we are instructed to do.

please even question me, each other and everyone.

seek wisdom.

think.

then do what you feel that God is leading, lining it up with scripture.

just my opinion,
love jane

[Willow]

Where I have to be careful is not to get overly paranoid and go back to distrusting every church under the sun. The geographic cure does not cure anything. I cannot leave a church everytime there is something wrong. There is never a perfect church. No easy answer on this one. I am powerless. The AA slogans of take what you like and leave the rest and let go and let God are the best points of reference I have. It get curiouser and curioser.

Yeh yeh... I've told myself all of the above. I guess it all boils down to how they treat their people. Like cattle or people?

I haven't found a church yet for myself... I guess I'm looking for perfection. Odd thing is? I found it at a bar! What's up with that???? Maybe I don't expect perfection at a bar or something, eh?

[Hope 98]

just my opinion,
love jane

Hi Jane,

I don't know for sure if this is in response to my post or not. :confused: (really)

Just in case it is - I was trying to say the same thing that you said, I just tried to take a slightly different route - and I may have gotten distracted a little.:o

Just trying to point out that there is a difference between healing and learning to protect and defend ourselves, instead of mudslinging.

It was somebody else I was reacting to...

[ex-shep]

Yeh yeh... I've told myself all of the above. I guess it all boils down to how they treat their people. Like cattle or people?

I haven't found a church yet for myself... I guess I'm looking for perfection. Odd thing is? I found it at a bar! What's up with that???? Maybe I don't expect perfection at a bar or something, eh?


Well, I feel pretty humane in Tammy's church these days. Have not any temptation to chew my cud so I must be doing OK. Sorry for the comeback I could not resist.

I did hear a slogan in a 12 step meeting which was a real ephinany for me:

Expectations are resenments waiting to happened.

We have a sheepish experience in church Christmas Eve. We had a live Nativity scene with an uncooperative ewe. In the last service, the pastor made the offhand comment that he was praying the sheep would get it. Maybe the sheep was a Ewenitarian.

It's a living

[Willow]

Well, I feel pretty humane in Tammy's church these days. Have not any temptation to chew my cud so I must be doing OK. Sorry for the comeback I could not resist.

I fully expected a wise crack from you who are the king of wisecracks... very creative ones might I add?

I did hear a slogan in a 12 step meeting which was a real ephinany for me:

Expectations are resenments waiting to happened.

This is a good thing to remember... very very true. But if we don't expect certain things... doesn't that leave us open for more abuse?

We have a sheepish experience in church Christmas Eve. We had a live Nativity scene with an uncooperative ewe. In the last service, the pastor made the offhand comment that he was praying the sheep would get it. Maybe the sheep was a Ewenitarian.

It's a living

Now that sounds like fun! Glad ewe had things under control. At least the people weren't the sheep!

[jane]

Hope,

no it wasn't against your post, i was just agreeing with you....


for me I spent 9 years justifying my pastor's abuse. "well, he is a man too, well, think of all the people stuff that he has to deal with, well, he isn't good with men because of his lack of relationship with his own father- he is hurting too...."

and allowed, participated in, continued the controlling of people when they questionned him, spoke out against something or well, you know....

love,
jane

[ex-shep]

Now that sounds like fun! Glad ewe had things under control. At least the people weren't the sheep![/QUOTE]

10 points. That was good.

[jjc9497]

Last year our pastor had a live sheep brought onstage for some kind of illustrative purpose (can't remember what). The sheep proceeded to poop all over the stage as the pastor spoke. It was sooooooo funny--and no one remembers the illustration, just the sh**** sheep.

[Hope 98]

Hi Jane, Glad that you understood. I thought we agreed - wanted to make sure that it looked that way to you too :)

[truth]

Last year our pastor had a live sheep brought onstage for some kind of illustrative purpose (can't remember what). The sheep proceeded to poop all over the stage as the pastor spoke. It was sooooooo funny--and no one remembers the illustration, just the sh**** sheep.


:D :D :D there is so much more I could say --- but I'm trying awfully hard to be mature and trying hard to move past the Barbies, so I will just grin and leer a little bit! Did he at least have a sense of humor about it - wasn't there some old showbiz addage about trying to share the limelight with kids and animals?

No, wait a minute, I got the symbolism ---- the sheep are expressing their true feelings about the shepherds! I can relate to this animal, so often I felt the same way! I just didn't have enough nerve to actually go up on the stage and lift my leg......! Baaaaah!

[gwen]

:D :D :D there is so much more I could say --- but I'm trying awfully hard to be mature and trying hard to move past the Barbies, so I will just grin and leer a little bit! Did he at least have a sense of humor about it - wasn't there some old showbiz addage about trying to share the limelight with kids and animals?

No, wait a minute, I got the symbolism ---- the sheep are expressing their true feelings about the shepherds! I can relate to this animal, so often I felt the same way! I just didn't have enough nerve to actually go up on the stage and lift my leg......! Baaaaah!


HAHAHA!!! :D :D :D
To both jjc9497 and truth!!! Hilarious!!!

[jjc9497]

Actually, the pastor laughed harder than anyone. It was even more funny after the sermon because no one cleaned up the doo-doo and the worship team came out from backstage in the dark and there was just enough light for us to see them trying to dodge the "bullets". All in all, a wonderful service!!!!

[ex-shep]

Last year our pastor had a live sheep brought onstage for some kind of illustrative purpose (can't remember what). The sheep proceeded to poop all over the stage as the pastor spoke. It was sooooooo funny--and no one remembers the illustration, just the sh**** sheep.

was it that the illustration was not ewesful or did the pastor fail at ramming his points through? Sounds definitely sheepish. Well least it was one time he did not pull the wool over one's eyes.

[ex-shep]

:D :D :D there is so much more I could say --- but I'm trying awfully hard to be mature and trying hard to move past the Barbies, so I will just grin and leer a little bit! Did he at least have a sense of humor about it - wasn't there some old showbiz addage about trying to share the limelight with kids and animals?

No, wait a minute, I got the symbolism ---- the sheep are expressing their true feelings about the shepherds! I can relate to this animal, so often I felt the same way! I just didn't have enough nerve to actually go up on the stage and lift my leg......! Baaaaah!


ah, the things we ex-members have to work to get past our issues. Um, Yeah. Oh, well, beats denial and resentment I always say. Former members of Tammy's church had a whole collection of cult jokes. I could do some mean impersonations of the leaders in the bible school too. So I can relate. Such is life in the big city.

[jjc9497]

I sure love all you guys. Not too many other people appreaciate the subleties:D :D Thanks for the laughs.