Crushed in Spirit

[help me]

I am thankful for finding this site and to know that church problems exist everywhere. I have found comfort in reading some of the posts, and hope someone here will pray for this dreadful situation at my church.

This will be a long post, I’m afraid. <<Sorry>>

My husband and I have a very deep faith, despite the many churches we’ve attended during our marriage. And I say “attended”, because we’ve never felt like we REALLY BELONGED anywhere despite moving our membership from place to place (and a lot of work and prayer on our part).

The last few months at our current church have become intolerable. The church called a new pastor a little over a year ago. To make a very long story short – he appears to be a FRAUD. The existing staff (when asked by the hiring committee) had advised against hiring the man, citing “bad reviews” they had received from their contacts around the state. The committee hired him anyway. In the coming months, we began to see how self-absorbed and insecure he was. Right after the church financial gurus had announced the church was facing a budget crisis, this pastor launched a program for a mission trip to a third world country. He solicited funds (outside the budget process) for what turned out to be a glorified vacation (just for him) to travel to this African nation. In the meantime, the funds needed to quell the financial crisis mysteriously approximated the amount of funds that he had so slyly diverted by means of his influence from the church’s weekly offerings to his mission trip fund. During this same time frame, the financial committee recommended as part of the church’s cost cutting measures, that staff (other than the pastor) be cut back to make up for the budget shortfall. Three ministers were cut back (one severely, by over half). During the course of these many meetings, it came to light that this “pastor” was being paid almost $90K (US) in salary and lived in a $300K house provided by the church (all utilities included).

Each week, we watch the dear music minister (who was the one cut back so severely) labor so hard to bring a worshipful atmosphere to our service. Then this pastor stands up and READS his sermon to us. No insight, so spirit-inspired message, no divine inspiration. He just reads. Most of the illustrations refer to events, anecdotes, etc., from 20 years ago (could he be using old sermons he wrote in seminary?). He literally sucks the energy out of the room. We watch how shabbily he (and his wife/children – who are also just as insufferable) treats the music minister and his entire family. They are ignored and shunned. They also receive this same kind of treatment from those in the pastor’s “inner circle”. I don’t see how this man takes it – it’s almost like watching a car accident happen in slow motion. He has such a sweet spirit and it is obvious he is suffering, along with his family. I know they have at least one child in college. I have no idea how they are managing with such a financial hardship. In the meantime, the pastor shows up in new suits, has new toys (like fancy cell phones, etc.) almost every week.

I have tried to have a meaningful discussion with several members that I feel comfortable approaching about what they think is going on. Everyone acts either gun-shy or resigned to the fact there is nothing they can do to stop the situation. I (We) pray for God’s Will for this church and our family, but especially for illumination of this man’s wrongs against this church. The pastor has begun avoiding me after services; evidently I’m being labeled a troublemaker. That’s fine with me – he does not decide my reward in Heaven.

I’m just so frustrated at the injustice of this man coming in and ripping these poor people off, right under their noses!!!! Please pray for this situation and this poor family, and for guidance for all concerned.


James 1:2-4
Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

[Jerry]

Dear Crushed,,,
You need ammunition,,,,,Type "Tactics of PDC PDL/Warren Group" into your search engine,,,,,,,,,,then go to one of "Carmens " posts and click on the link to her site,,,,,,,,,,,Time to go to war ;)
Love Jerry

[SpinningHead]

Welcome HelpMe,

Misuse of finances are, IMHO, the biggest of the SA that pastors/churches engage in. We left our church in September b/c of serious money mismanagement...and when we confronted the situation...it got volitile! In our situation, the more people we told, the more people didn't want to "get involved with all the politics". Nobody wanted to stand up and say "the emporer has no clothes!".

Two books I recommend are Crucial Conversations and Crucial Confrontations by Kerry Patterson (written w/ some other really smart folks). I wish I had read these books before our ordeal started. I would have handled a few incidents differently.

If you are willing to speak out, you will be attacked for the simple reason that you are bringing attention to the problem. You are the whistle blower! Good for you! But you will indeed be attacked as long as you attend there and are not willing to go along with this behavior.

One idea is...you could stop tithing to the church and tithe directly to this man & his family. Then you'd know exactly where your $ was going and what it was supporting. I really believe God would honor that. You'd also know that whatever these men were deciding that was beyond your control, you & your finances are having no part of it.

Welcome to the forum and feel free to jump in any thread w/ thoughts, supports and share as you need to.

[butterfly]

:) Welcome HelpMe, I will pray as you asked us to.
Why christians don"t speak up when things like this happens I just do not understand!!
If someone else did this they would see the evil.
Good for you for speaking up. Don"t be surprized if some of your friends will not be on your side on this.
So many broken lifes:( :( so sad. butterfly

[Meg Evenstar]

Welcome HelpMe!! This sounds like the church we left. My husband was a trustee at the time and he tried along with some of the deacons to get rid of this man, but he was not able to do so, so we had to leave. We were not there for the grand fight but those who were told of folks being threatened with disfellowship and public shaming. Bottom line, the church almost had to close the doors. They were down to $3.15 in the bank. The pastor left and so did his cronies. The membership went when from 300 to 50. To this day (two years later) the church has still not recovered. It has less than 100 people who attend.

In my own experience we had two pastors. The first one was cruel and the other was a con-artist. I had not shared this latter experience because it all sounds so bazaar that I only wanted to forget it. The bulk of my personal abuse occurred under the cruelty of the first pastor. My husband would not leave so I had to endure it. It was the second pastor that got him. Now he knows what I went through. Essentially, between the two pastors, the church was destroyed. We ended up moving from the community to escape as we felt that our reputation had been destroyed. The other churches did not know the truth of what had happened so those of us who had led the fight to vote the latter pastor out were marked and not accepted in the other area churches. They later learned the truth when the pastor left and all was exposed, but by then the damage was done to us and we had moved. To this day some hold two deacons and my husband responsible for what happened. They say if we had not spoken up all would have worked out. They say we drove off the congregation and caused the collapse of the church.

I know this is not encouraging but I wanted to let you know what the fight might become like. In the end God will prevail. He always does and the fight is worth it. It is always worth it to expose evil and that is what I call it when pastors do this to their church. It will take the deacon and trustee bodies to handle this and they will have to be united. These pastors are good at what they do. You may get badly hurt, but I think it will hurt even if you do nothing.

Good luck and I will be praying.

Meg

[gwen]

Dear Help Me,

Yes, I will pray for the situation. I can really relate to your story. Our former "pastor" was the only paid staff person that we had and thoroughly took advantage of people's giving. Our family were all musicians on the praise and worship team and I was the P&W leader for several years, until the "pastor" decided to put a talented, young (16-year-old) girl in as my replacement. (The "pastor" didn't even have the nerve to tell me that I was being replaced...he told my husband to tell me! Of course, I felt like I must not be doing a "good enough" job to please the "pastor", and that's why he replaced me.) He also brought her two sisters onto the team and then I wasn't even given a microphone (after being P&W leader for 7 years). But I continued to play keyboard (he still needed me for that!). I also taught at his school full-time as a volunteer and worked like I was being paid big bucks! We lived on my husband's income.

We left the "church" in August 2004 after being members there for 10 years. We started attending my sister's church immediately after leaving the other "church". Though it is a healthy church, I still get triggered and it hasn't been easy for me to attend church at all, but my husband felt that we needed to stay in church...In November, the pastor at our new church announced his resignation (after being the pastor there for 15 years) and his last Sunday will be January 8. So the board is now currently in the process of finding a new pastor. I must admit, I am VERY scared! Our pastor that we currently have is not at all like our former "pastor" and that's why I'm even able to go to this church. Now I'm concerned about who they're going to hire as his replacement. If this new pastor reminds me at all of our former "pastor", I don't think I'll be able to handle it! I really like the people at our new church and my sister and parents attend there. My mother and father-in-law started to go there after we did to be able to worship with us (something they wouldn't do when we were at our former "church").

So, that's a little bit of my story. Now what can you do about yours? I really like SpinningHead's suggestion about the tithing directly to the music minister. It is such a shame that he's being treated like this. I think that the pastor is probably jealous of him...is the music minister popular among the congregation? I know that for me, I was popular with the congregation and, I think, looking back, that the "pastor" was jealous of any attention that I received from people, so every chance he got, he would put me down. Also, I understand the "cold shoulder"...I got that a lot too. It seemed that the only time that he talked to me was when he needed me to do something for him or else to be critical of me.

I'm putting a quote on here from a thread that was posted by Reg a couple of months ago. Maybe this will give you some insight to your situation. The thread was entitled, "The Outcast".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg
I replied below in my welcome to Mstar below in the context of The Outcast.

Here's some notes I made in that regard when I read the book "Toxic Faith".

"Toxic-Faith" (Chapter 7) The Five Roles in a Toxic-Faith System.

The are Persecutor - Co-Conspirator - Enabler - Victim - Outcast. I want to focus on The Outcast role.

The Role of the Outcast

Of the five roles in the toxic-faith system, only one is not a religious addict or bound by toxic- faith. In most toxic-fath systems, someone can usually see the problem and confront it. Unwilling to play the games of the persecutor and co-conspirators, the person becomes the outcast.

These people who stand up for what is right and challenge the system lose their jobs, friends, and church. They become lone voices in the wilderness, crying out for change that will not come as long as the persecutor dictates power, the co-conspirators manipulate the system, the enablers allow it to continue, and the victims fall in line with blind faith. When outcasts surface, they are identified as troublemakers and pushed out of the system as soon as possible.

Forced to Rebel

In a healthy system, individuals respect the person and position of leadership. For it to remain healthy, there must also be respect for the workers. Without respect, the "hired hands" are not allowed to disagree. If they don't like something, they are labeled complainers, negative thinkers, and not team players. The toxic-faith system has no place for anyone who challenges the integrity of disagrees with the methods of the leader. In a toxic-faith system, loyalty is equated with blind faith and complete agreement with the leader.

Allegiance that requires overlooking the truth must be pledged daily. When allegiance evaporates, the confrontational workers of church members are labeled as outcasts and rejected by the organization. In this they are forced to rebel, since the organization allows no room for disagreement.

Outcasts who challenge the delusion of the system are discredited immediately. The toxic-faith system creates a lose-lose situation where the outcasts must give up perceptions of reality or be willing to face complete rejection. Abandonment becomes the reward for trying to correct the ministry.

Outcasts can interpret reality for themselves. Even when their perception of reality contradicts that of hundreds or thousands of followers, they can clearly see the problems and press for solutions to those problems. Outcasts are unimpressed by position or personhood. They love God and want to protect His people and His institutions from spiritual fraud.

Those who are dedicated to God have little difficulty seeing others' dedication to egos and empires. They are forced to suffer for what they see because they refuse to watch people live a lie and abuse others. No toxic-faith system can handle this keen insight and dedication to truth.They must place their jobs and the church they love on the altar of sacrifice as they are forced to move on to a place free from toxic-faith.

Hope for the Outcast

God honours those who are willing to sacrifice their comfort at the altar of what is right. God has a special place in His heart for the heros of a toxic-faith system. Those who stand up for God and tell the world the emperor has no clothes will receive their reward sooner of later.

I have talked with some of these courageous outcasts, and I know of the pain and suffering they endured when they rejected the toxic-faith system. But all is not terrible for the outcasts. They feel good about finally taking a stand. They also feel the respect of others who value their courageous acts.

The hope for these outcasts is that many great men and women of God and many great churches exist where God can be found. Rejected in one place, they will be honoured through the integrity of the organization's leadership.

It then goes on to list the characteristics of the Outcast.

Is not a religious addict
Does not possess a toxic-faith
Willingly stands alone
Stands up for what is right
Is willing to be rejected by others in a toxic-faith system
Can discern right from wrong
Commits to leaders having integrity
Refuses to be victimized by false teaching and lack of integrity
Speaks out for truth
Usually loses a job within a toxic organization over concern for it
Suffers rejection by friends after challenging the leadership of those in the toxic-faith system
Often is treated as a leper
Is begged by others in a toxic-faith system to support the persecutor
Endures shame of others
Refuses to respect of be manipulated by those in a toxic-faith system
Sees the truth and acts on it even if it produces great personal pain
Interprets reality for self
Is motivated to protect people from spiritual fraud
Is very dedicated to God and the people who seek a relationship with Him
Commands respect of others for courage

Help Me, I will be praying for you. Welcome to the forum. I hope that you find it helpful and encouraging to you.

Love, Gwen

[Carmen]

Hi Help Me,

I am so sorry that you are going through such a situation. I like Spinning Head's idea, too, (just not the word tithing). I would certainly cut off all payments to that church. It is clear that the money is not being used for telling the gospel or helping the poor - but to fill the pockets of that impostor. Don't waste your money. I'd support the music minister at least morally - be his friend if he needs one. If he is as nice as you say, then call him up and invite him over for some fellowship.

A hiring committee can be a firing committee. I'd start trying to show others what the church has become - the pastor's plaything and slaughter house. He is not feeding you, but feeding off of you and fleecing you. Paul stated that such men are false pastors. That pastor can preach about unity of the body of Christ and obedience all he wants, but until he fits the description that Paul suggested in his letters then I wouldn't even begin to think about unity with that pastor or anyone that supports him. Phooey! If all else fails then you might have to think about leaving. What Meg described might happen to you, though. It could be a difficult time.

Will keep you in my prayers.

Carmen

[Theodora]

....as well as my prayers for you all.

From a quick scan of the responses here on your thread, it seems that many have offered some good thoughts.

Know that you are welcome here. Please do post as you feel comfortable doing so.

Grace and peace--

Theodora

--


:) Welcome HelpMe, I will pray as you asked us to.
Why christians don"t speak up when things like this happens I just do not understand!!
If someone else did this they would see the evil.
Good for you for speaking up. Don"t be surprized if some of your friends will not be on your side on this.
So many broken lifes:( :( so sad. butterfly

[help me]

Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement! I see I have some homework to do - :D

Eph. 6:10-12 !!!!!!

[Janice]

Welcome to the forum "Help Me". Praying for you and your situation.