reply to response

[Hope 98]

This is what I got back from my "friend" after "my response"

The bold part really bugs me

No, I have no right to judge you and I do not. Judgement contains condemnation. I do not wish to have the crap slapped out of me by God for judging or rejecting you. I do not imply or think that this situtation is an evil or stupid or incompetent or mean spirited [Hope] and a long list of sweet, wise, virtuous relatives. Bah. For all have sinned and come short....
I knew many years ago when you said you thought (daughter #2) was "finished" that you had a very bumpy buggy ride coming up. Her every action and word shouted it. As I said, The "stupids" descended on Dare at abt 15 years old. All kids get the disease. You and Idid. But some kids go into it angrier and more confused than others. (daughter #2) would not have been cutting herself if she were not an extremely angry, hurting kid.
However, I knew years ago that I could not tell you what I saw or tell you where I could see you were making mistakes, (many of the same mistakes I had already made!) because I knew you would take it as a personal vicious attack instead of considering it. That you would overreact, and emote all over the place (remember I tried and you lost it.) That you would filter everything thru the assumption that anyone who tells you what you are doing wrong is trying to kill you or something.
Edit your critical mother out of the equation and you do not have a single enemy, rejecting critic, underminer, or any other label you can come up with. You have a family (me included) that wants desperately to help heal the rift between you and (daughter #2) and themselves, that want to shore up your position as parent, help you, love you, help (daughter #2) (who is the only one in danger) and yet you take every word and action as poison. You baracade (daughter #2) and yourself away from this imaginary enemy and shut her in with the very person she is not coping with - YOU. (No I do not think Cyberschool was a bad idea! I think isolating you and her is a very bad idea) You could be the greatest saint in the world right now and (daughter #2) would just keep reacting to the person she thinks you are. She is as stuck as you are. Don't you get it? you are both stuck on a gerbil wheel. You can't get off of it unless you both get off together.
I hope you can step outside this long enough to consider this. This is wrong: You have made (daughter #2) your emotional parent and made her the keeper of how you feel. You have put a huge burden on her and made your relationship with her about how [Hope] is feeling instead of taking the objective rational parental role. You have contaminated the relationship with your needs and (daughter #2) can't carry it anymore. SHE GETS TO BE THE KID! YOU ARE BLIND TO ANYTHING BUT HOW EVERYONE IS "MAKING" YOU FEEL! No one has the power to "make" you feel anyway you dont choose to. As an adult you should know that by now. (daughter #2) is too young to know it.

If you do not forgive your mother and stop weeping over your early wounds, get out of your emotions, you will lose you daughter forever. Your mother was hurtful, still is. So what? You are 50 years old! SHE HAS NO POWER OVER YOU EXCEPT WHAT YOU HAVE GIVEN HER. What does she know about anything anyway????

As for your pastor, he does not know your family and doesn't know you as well as they do. You are still looking for us-against-them recruits, and keeping (daughter #2) away from anyone you have not got "on your side". That was my game and it has cost me dearly. Don't do it, please. You have very little time left to change directions in (daughter #2)'s life. I have confessed every stupid thing I ever did to try to let you see I am not being holier than thou. That you are repeating many of my errors.
Go listen to the Joyce Meyer tapes I gave you again. They can help.
I am not going to let you go and give up and I am not going to let your anger chase me away. I love you and want to get down in the ditch with you and intercede and help. I am very worried abt (daughter #2). Her life and future are in terrible danger, but you are my friend and I really am on your side. I am a flawed person with wounds too. Take a deep breath and try to trust that your family (edit the Mom!) are also on your side and love you and are also aware that they are flawed souls too. Let them love (daughter #2), and lend a hand to you! It isn't a contest! There are no sides!!!!!

[SpinningHead]

My 2 cents...

Your reply to the first e-mail was more than enough to satisfy your position and you didn't even owe her that! I'm sure it felt good though.

Who is this person to you and your life??? My goodness! You've been through it w/out adding this person's baggage to your burdens!!

((((((HOPE!))))))))

Do what you want and know is good for you....if it were me, my reply would be something like...

"I've said all I'm going to say about the subject to you. Thank you for your concern but this doesn't really concern you. I'll thank you not to talk about me or my family again."

If she responds w/ that melodramatic drama stuff...cut & paste this reponse and repeat, repeat, repeat until she leaves you alone!

Sweetheart...w/ everything you've gone through...you don't need any of us telling you that you and your family don't need this! You have really gone through it and especially lately...this you don't need!

If this thought doesn't work for you...then leave it on the thread. My intentions are good I assure you.

((((((((((((HOPE)))))))))))))))))

[Satscout]

Do what you want and know is good for you....if it were me, my reply would be something like...

"I've said all I'm going to say about the subject to you. Thank you for your concern but this doesn't really concern you. I'll thank you not to talk about me or my family again."

If she responds w/ that melodramatic drama stuff...cut & paste this reponse and repeat, repeat, repeat until she leaves you alone!

*shakes head again*

wow.

I am amazed at the depth of that woman's delusion. Unfortunately, she sounds like the type that is convinced she knows better than you, will always know better than you, and she will not leave you alone as long as she thinks she can "help".

:mad: Where does she get off trying to pretend she knows what is going on in your "daughter #2's" heart? And what makes her think you are trying to put your burdens on your daughter's shoulders?

(expletive expletive) I wish there were a way you could be physically removed from every busybody who thinks they know best and have someone totally outside the situation evaluate it without their contamination. :confused: :(

[Hope 98]

The most effective way of dealing with this, I've found, is to simply NOT respond at all. The responses that I do send I consider to be more for my benefit than for hers. It helps ME to see myself typing out words that affirm my identity.

No, I have no right to judge you and I do not. Judgement contains condemnation.

She DOESN'T???

I do not wish to have the crap slapped out of me by God for judging or rejecting you.

Do I want to know this "god"??? I think not.

I do not imply or think that this situtation is an evil or stupid or incompetent or mean spirited [Hope] and a long list of sweet, wise, virtuous relatives. Bah. For all have sinned and come short....

Gee - it sounds to me this is ALL about an evil, stupid, incompetent AND mean-spirited Hope. Apparently some fall shorter than others?

However, I knew years ago that I could not tell you what I saw or tell you where I could see you were making mistakes, (many of the same mistakes I had already made!) because I knew you would take it as a personal vicious attack instead of considering it.

Maybe she needs to learn something about how she DELIVERS her messages. If I've made mistakes, positive advice and encouragement would be helpful. If there is any of that in anything she or any of my relatives are saying, it's pretty well buried under uninformed assumptions, false accusations, and what I cannot help but feel as blame and hostility.

Obviously, I am looking to all of you guys to be on my side too. And if I am obsessing over the internet with a bunch of losers who think they're "spiritually abused" whatever that means, of course I'm NEVER going to be able to think straight. (this part is bitter sarcasm - guessing at what I'd hear next if someone finds these posts)

[Hope 98]

Who is this person to you and your life??? My goodness! You've been through it w/out adding this person's baggage to your burdens!!

I thought I should answer this so her involvement isn't a complete mystery. My oldest daughter married her son. He was 19 at the time & she was 17. Eight years later, they have 5 children. The oldest turned 8 in September, and the youngest was born in August.

Or - you could look at it as she is my grandchildren's other grandmother.

She used to live a mile down the road, but moved a few years ago. We were friends.

Her behavior isn't really surprising.

[jane]

wow.

if joyce meyers holds the keys of wisdom regarding relationships between teen daughters and their mothers- she'd be more famous, more rich, and used by even secular people....

mother daughter relationship issues transcend time...........


jeezo.

nutty people.

well, at least she's not telling you to give money to a ministry in order to save your daughter- maybe there is hope for her yet:eek:

jane

[SpinningHead]

I thought I should answer this so her involvement isn't a complete mystery. My oldest daughter married her son. He was 19 at the time & she was 17. Eight years later, they have 5 children. The oldest turned 8 in September, and the youngest was born in August.

Or - you could look at it as she is my grandchildren's other grandmother.

She used to live a mile down the road, but moved a few years ago. We were friends.

Her behavior isn't really surprising.

Ok...so even so she has a legitamite connection (you share grandchildren), she has certainly overstepped her boundaries w/ her e-mail. Even if you were best friends at one time, does she have a license to your personal intimate family issues?

I think your e-mail back to her was brilliant but snuff out this fire before she's to high on her projection horse and causing you some serious issues.

And you have yourself a phenominal weekend!!!!!

[Carmen]

Well, I'd at least give her credit for trying to help even though you don't see it as a help to your situation.

Be careful with Joyce Meyer, she is a Word-of-Faith preacher. She teaches false doctrine, can't go into why here.

[Hope 98]

I've thought a lot about the Joyce Meyer comments.

I like Joyce Meyer a lot because of the way she presents her own past - and treats survivors of childhood sexual abuse with compassion and understanding. Having grown up in a church culture that fussed over "purity" sometimes - it was a tremendous relief and help to hear that God could and did still love me.

I know that she is associated with Word of Faith and doctrines that aren't exactly "orthodox." I have been able - most likely through God's grace alone - to take some of her teaching, which has been truly healing for me - and leave the rest.

There are other people in public ministry that just rub me way too much the wrong way. I toss the magazines & "pledge cards" in the trash, change the channel or the radio station, and skip their websites. And when I don't - I get really really angry!

Because of who recommended this particular set of Joyce Meyer tapes, and the motives that the tone of her email implies, I've been reluctant to listen to them. And I am not going to feel guilty about it :D

[Janice]

Joyce Meyers has been abused as a child yes. I too have listened to her testimony tape, as well as countless others. Was even a "partner" at one time.

IMHO she is a very bold, outspoken woman with some very hard core preaching at times.

Yes, she is part of the Word of Faith movement which scares the crap out of me.

Pastors wife, preaches the same way. She has her hair like Joyce Meyers, dresses like Joyce Meyers, and preaches like Joyce Meyers. I call her a "Joyce Meyers wanna be". Just rubs me the wrong way.