I'm so embarrassed [Archive] - Christian Recovery Forums

baldguy

10-31-2005, 04:19 PM

Leslie

10-31-2005, 04:59 PM

Dear baldguy,

You are in a very hard situation. It would be wrong to minimize that at all. God give you wisdom in what to do.

It sounds like you are deeply concerned that leaving will hurt some in the church, as well as those close to you. Whatever your course, take heart that people who have also suffered under this may be encouraged if the devices come to the light and are called what they are--"wrong". The result (who knows when) may lift a burden people have been laboring under for some time.

Please do not be hard on yourself. SA cloaks itself. You clearly want to serve God and are good hearted. "To the pure all things are pure", and I suspect that your sincere and trusting nature helped you become a victim of what is going on.

Blessings,
Leslie

gwen

10-31-2005, 05:11 PM

Dear Baldguy,

I know how you feel, but you don't have to be embarrassed...you were blinded, but now your eyes are open! As far as what is the right way...I don't know if there is a "right way" to leave a church like this! Yes, you will be shunned! Yes, you will be smeared!

My husband and I were part of the "ministry" at our former "church". We were not paid because the only paid person at our former "church" was the "pastor". But I worked full-time at the church-school teaching the high school students. I put myself into it as if I was making a million dollars. I loved those kids! The reason I stayed as long as I did was because of them! Now they think we're awful people for leaving...I feel like all my hard work went "down the drain" when we left. My family has told me "No", that I did make a difference in those kids' lives, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

You have made a difference, too...and when someone leaves that church, they'll come looking to you for help...

God bless,
Gwen

Voyager

10-31-2005, 05:39 PM

We've all been there.

;)

Willow

10-31-2005, 08:02 PM

Gosh baldguy,

I wish I could help. The only thing that comes to mind for me is the difference between hurting and harming. I mean... I've broken up with guys before and they were hurt, but to stay with them would have been harming them and leading them falsely by not being truthful. I'm not sure if there's any way to apply this to your situation or not... I'm grabbing at straws here. I feel the weight of your situation and it is very delicate. I don't have the experience level to help you. I didn't have a family when I had to uproot myself from my church. I was also in the core group... but no family to harm. I was able to untangle slowly, then move away and make decisions that only affected me. Are your wife and kids on board with you in this decision? If they are, they may be more prepared than you think for the consequences. Maybe you can have some "fire drills" with them... scenarios that might happen. It took me 4 years to untangle from my church. I hope it doesn't take you that long... but just know that sometimes disappearing slowly and leaving a small ripple is better than leaving quickly with a big splash. I think concern for you family is the utmost.

Keep in mind... these are questions from an uneducated person. You and God know your situation better than anyone else. I just have a heart for you in this situation. You must feel really trapped.

Willow

10-31-2005, 08:17 PM

Then again... if you leave quicker and with the larger splash... It may help others leave who are needing the "permission" or "reason" to leave.

what a quandry... I think I'm not helping much.. eh?

leesiebella

10-31-2005, 08:51 PM

baldguy,

Sorry to hear of your awful circumstance. My husband and I are going thru the same situations... he is the Associate Pastor. We need to leave. But how is also our question.

We seem to be struggling with the same issues. May I recommend a book I picked up recently...

The Wounded Minister by Guy Greenfield. This book is specifically written for people in the ministry, who are abused... you and I.

This book covers spiritual abuse from both stand points. Pastors abused by their congregations (elders, committees, etc.) and also Ministers (Associates/Youth Pastor/Children's Pastor...anyone else on staff, basically) abused by their SENIOR PASTOR.

He refers to the abuse by a pastor as "pathological" and how they destroy the lives of those who work under them if they do not submit to thier Authoritarian leadership.

My friend, you are a victim. Do not be embarrassed. There is no shame in finding truth. I hope you and I find a safe place where we can be healed of our hurt and pain, refocus and begin a better life offering hope and healing to others.

Here is an excerpt from the book...

"The wounded minister will always be a minister at heart, so his first concern while struggling with woundedness should not be self-pity, anger, or revenge, but healing. Otherwise the abusers win. If healing does not take place, the effect of the abuse will flow over like a poison into other facets of a wounded minister's life and work. The unhealed wounded minister will have either a toxic ministry or no ministry at all."

I think he's right. After your exit, focus on healing your family. Then, begin again.

Praying for you baldguy, feel your pain, sorry.:(

leesiebella

P.S. this book was great as far as putting a name to many different styles of abuse. I recommend it, however... some, not all, some of the suggestions Mr. Greenfield makes, as far as getting help and dealing with some of the issues, triggered me. He is pretty strong in his communication skills and verbiage. A tad on the insensitive side, but a good overall read. If you can sift thru and get what you need, it will help. Also, I think I recall him saying he is Baptist. This is apparant in his attempt to "solve" the problem of abuse. Form a committee.

I give it 4 out of 5 stars, b/c it's written for ministers.

Jerry

10-31-2005, 10:32 PM

Dear Baldguy,,,,
Embarrassed,,,,,,,,,,,,,yeh I remember that,,,,,,,,,,it's counterfit ;) We all at one time or another supported the systematic abuse and have had guilt about it.I no longer have guilt I have resolved it but I still have the memory of it.As you struggle through this remember what Christ said about dealing with abusers,,,,,be wise as the serpent and harmless as a dove.I might add,even if you want to punch someone in the mouth :D
Love Jerry

Janice

11-01-2005, 01:33 AM

No need to be embarrassed. We've all had the wool pulled over our eyes. I just wish I could pull it off hubby's eyes. :rolleyes:

Zoe

11-01-2005, 05:58 AM

Hi Y'all,

Deep in the heart of Texas here! I was just pondering all that we are walking through right now and I was struck by such a sense of embarrassment!!! I've blindly been a part of something so dysfunctional and harmful to people. As the Associate Pastor people have looked to me for answers and I've been blinded to what they were really going through. I see now how I've been used like a pawn in my pastor's conquest to rule the lives and minds of those he Shepherds ( and I use the term with the utmost of disrespect)

My mind is flooded with all sorts of stories that I have both seen and heard where I was contributing to the problem by my silence or by toeing the company line. I see how I've heard only one side a story and taken on the oppinions of my Pastor to the detriment of the congregation God sent me to serve.

Now I have to figure a way out and try and hurt the least amount of people. I continue to get the advice of --- "What ever you do make sure you do it the right way!" But what on earth is that. The way I see it is there is no right way. No matter what I do someone will get hurt! No matter how I leave I will be shredded and fault will be found. My children will be shunned. My wife will be cursed (Litterally). She will be called a Jezabell. My entire family goes to this church and they will all be asked to separate themselves from me. There are adults and youth alike who will be completely disillustioned when we leave. Help me God!

Anyway......... Just wanted to dump for a minute. I'm new here and I have so appreciated the wisdom and acceptance I've received here. This forum and you all have been a godsend to me. Oh and Jerry is my new hero. Oh to be able to just say it like you do. Thanks Heaps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Embarrassment...I remember it. I felt like a fool for so long, because right from the start I sensed something was wrong but could never quite put my finger on it. I beat myself up pretty good for being so gullible & taking the crap that we took. Even last night as my husband & I went for a walk, tears came to my eyes as I felt the burden for some of the things I use to teach in the church. (We were in youth ministry head leadership positions.)

Perhaps the tears have surfaced after reading several of the new posters here who are in leadership positions & my heart goes out to them. I well remember.

When hubby & I knew we had to resign, we kept our letter brief & simple. We could have written a books worth of a letter. Thing is, it wouldn't have helped. We'd already had a 3 hour meeting with the senior pastor & chairman of the board & their abuse during that 3 hour time was off the charts. So, being in leadership positions, we simply put that we had to resign because we were no longer in agreement with the leadership of "said" church.

We cleaned out our offices, left the key outside the pastors office door, walked out & let the door lock behind us & that was it.

Baldguy, I don't think there is any right way to do it either. I don't think there is any way to minimize the hurt to others.

Everything you mentioned about shredding, shunning, separation & cursing happened to us. You appear to understand this already so are miles ahead of me when I was in the situation. I wasn't prepared for it...it was devastating at the time & for many years to come.

My heart goes out to you & your family.

gwen

11-01-2005, 06:29 AM

I was just pondering all that we are walking through right now and I was struck by such a sense of embarrassment!!! I've blindly been a part of something so dysfunctional and harmful to people.

Dear baldguy,

Last week I read the book "Without Conscience" by Robert D. Hare, PhD, that someone recommended here on the forum. I would recommend the book to you. (It's very intriguing and quick reading. I borrowed it from the library.) I have dealt with the embarrassment of being "gullible" for being a part of a dysfunctional, harmful group, which we were a part of for 10 years. This book really helped me to see just how easy it is to get trapped into such a group and/or relationship.

Gwen

SpinningHead

11-01-2005, 06:48 AM

Hello Baldguy,

You're a victim and you were taught to victimize others & didn't know anything different at the time...and now you see what's happened to you and you see what's going on. Yeah, like the rest of us you're going to feel embarrassed for lots of reasons but one of them being the "I should have known better!" statement that you're probably repeating to yourself over & over again.

Baldguy, you've got to embrace that grateful feeling that you now see what's going on and you've stopped it w/in yourself. You need to take some time and celebrate that and let that feeling grow stronger than the embarrassment/shame. This is a painful decision that we sometimes can't see how to make...but celebrate it w/ your wife/family and "do something" celebratory...dinner? champagne? fireworks? get some positive drama in your life and it will help to change your tude'.

If you weren't an AP (Assoc. Pastor) I'd say run, hide & lick your wounds for a while...take care of you and be kind to yourself. But in your situation...my advice is more hardlined and business oriented so consider it when you're ready.

As I posted for Leesiebella...you need to focus in one some immediate needs and not let your emotions render you immobilized and stuck in shame. You're no good to anyone that way.

As far as "doing the right thing" goes....well, sure. What good intention Christian doesn't want to do the right thing... the trap here is being so consumed with the definition of the "right thing" you again immobilize yourself for fear of failure, hurting someone else, hurting your family or yourself further. You've got to make a few decisions right now before you go further...

#1...you've got to decide to trust your instinct and initial gut reaction, pray & move forward
#2...you've got to decide to forgive yourself ahead of time for any mistakes you might make along the way. Have this conversation w/ your wife and get your family's forgiveness ahead of time for any mistakes you might make. This is for your own peace of mind as you move forward. Assure yourself of their compassion and acceptance (and positioning them that this is what you're going to need) before anticipation of criticism gets the best of you.
#3...you've got to decide to accept the fact that you're going to make mistakes. It's not like you've had a trial run through this...this is reality, you've never gone through anything like this and for all the RIGHT decisions you'll make, you'll goof up once in a while. NOTHING is detrimental!
#4...you have got to trust that you are making the very best decision based on the information that you have and that your intentions are for the best. If you can look back on this part of your life and say, "yes, given the info at the time...I did what I believed to be right" then you have come out of this a lot healthier & wiser.
#5...you need to decide that other adults need to be treated as adults and you need to make them take personal responsibility for their own lives/choices/hurts/etc. You are responsible for you and they have to make the choice to take care of them. And when they come to you saying "you did X, you said Y"....fall back on #4 and tell them so. Apologize for anything that you need to own but otherwise, you followed #4 and what they do with that info is their choice and not yours to own. Follow me?

Once you've got your mental decisions made and have discussed them w/ your family and gotten their support...You haven't left the church, yet...right? I did understand that correctly, right?... so w/ that understanding...

You've got to take care of business and deal w/ the emotional stuff at a later/safer time. This will be a tremendous help to your family to get through it as soon as possible and not be devastated as part of the process.

Action! Get a journal for you & the misses...

#1 sitting) make a list of what short & long term obligations you have in the church at this time. (have chocolate on hand)
#2 sitting) go back to that list and start strategizing reasonable ways for you to clear off your church plate from obligations either by fullfilling short term obligations or passing the torch. (a nice cheese/fruit tray works nicely for this one...we also had a glass of wine but herbal tea can work too)
#3 sitting) get your game plan on regarding how you'll be saying "no" to any additional long term responsibilities and most short term ones. (this just calls for brownies)
#4 sitting) strategize how you can either pass on any long term torches to people who'd love the chance at a particular ministry or come to terms that certain ministries need to fade into the background (herbal tea, butter cookies & tissues compliment this one)
#5 sitting) w/out letting on to anyone what you're doing...start removing yourself from these situations while at the same time (or even sooner) begin updating your resume and sending it out if possible. I would not even let your closest friends in on #5 (or any of them really) b/c they'll always see this as some kind of betrayal...but do talk opening about what's going on and your dissapproval. This way when the opportunity comes that you can leave, people will know why.
#6) You need to start cleaning out the office (slowly!) of any personal items and clear the computer of any sensitive files...make it so nothing yours of value is in that church building. Start e-mailing any files to a pc at home...slowly get thee out of there and get thee to safety!

Feel free to adjust #1-#6 as needed and add whatever steps you find necessary. IF for some reason, you get called out on the mat...you've already started some sort of game plan to transition yourself out of there and the blow won't seem so "final" when it comes. You've also started arranging your emotional support system so you can have a safe place to retreat to. Seek some professional therapy if needed throughout this. No need to overburden the family w/ details.

Also...double check w/ your state's laws about recieving unemployment benefits. Have that info now in hand so when the ax comes down (most likely they'll not be expecting you to file!) it doesn't have to cut so deep. You may have to fight for your unemployment benefits so know what you need to do in order to win...such as record/document conversations, have copies of written evidence and do get a copy of any personal records Pastor has on hand about you! HUGE to know what Pastor could submit to not only unemployment but also to another job. VERY IMPORTANT is that IF there is any slanderous/harmful info in that personal file, you MUST counteract the negative info in writing and if necessary have a lawyer's letter accompany that...but don't think about that until you know what's in there.

Like I said...You need to start thinking about this in terms of business and not let your emotions/hurts dig you into a deeper place of hurt. You need to protect yourselves and your children. You can deal w/ all the emotions/hurts at a later time (I know I am) but you have got to deal with the reality that this is indeed happening and it is indeed threatening your lifestyle.

It is hard! But you are gonna have to buck up and face it to get through it. Know your safe places (like this forum) for recharging and venting.

And you can do all this stuff but it means squat w/out God so I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say PRAY! PRAY! PRAY!...and listen! listen! listen!

As I told Leesiebelle, I wasn't employed by the church but my small firm was hired by the church (we're a hubby/wife team) and it ended really bad! It ended in a lawyer's office!!

That's my advice and I'm someone who went through it and survived. I'm dealing w/ the emotional stuff now but I'm in a much safer place to deal with that as I need to. During the struggle, I was a fiesty little Italian princess! That's not to say we didn't leave w/ our fair share of bruises either. You aren't going to get through this pain free so accept that now w/ your family...Romans 12 has been a big help in letting a lot of stuff go and trusting in my "as far as it's up to me" decisions.

Good Luck and do stay here and keep us posted. K?

gwen

11-01-2005, 06:57 AM

Embarrassment...I remember it. I felt like a fool for so long, because right from the start I sensed something was wrong but could never quite put my finger on it. I beat myself up pretty good for being so gullible & taking the crap that we took. Even last night as my husband & I went for a walk, tears came to my eyes as I felt the burden for some of the things I use to teach in the church. (We were in youth ministry head leadership positions.)

Zoe,

Thanks for sharing your story...even though I hate that other people have had to go through the same thing that I did, it does bring me comfort that others have been there and know what it's like. It's interesting that you said that you sensed something was wrong right from the start. My first incident of being abused by our "pastor" occurred just three weeks after we joined the "church"...it was shocking, but we believed that God had led us there (based on a false prophecy), so I just shrugged it off at the time...

I, too, have beat myself up for being so gullible & taking the crap that we took and putting up with it as long as we did. I am learning, slowly, to let go, but it's been a struggle.

Gwen

gwen

11-01-2005, 08:04 AM

Hello again, Baldguy,

I agree with SpinningHead...right now you do need to focus on action...being worried about how much your leaving is going to hurt others is only going to paralyze you into inaction. You've got to rescue yourself and your family and that's what you need to focus on.

Since you are in a leadership position and paid staff person, you need to get a plan, as SpinningHead gave an excellent and detailed way to go about it. Once you get your family through this and out of there, then the healing can begin.

When we left, we just pulled out...much like Zoe's description of their departure. However, since we were not paid, income was not an issue for us. If I was in your position, I would make finding another job my first priority. Even if it means taking a job outside of the "ministry" temporarily just to get yourself out of there, that's what I would do. Once you're out of there, then you can take your time and reevaluate where the Lord is leading you without pressure. Just my personal suggestion...

When we left we had to tie up a lot of loose ends because we were very involved in several aspects of the "church". Once we made the decision to leave, we began the process the very next day. I wanted out of there as soon as possible!!!

Gwen

truth

11-01-2005, 08:19 AM

baldguy,

don't be too hard on yourself ...... it was like Paul on the road to Damascus...until that moment of revelation came - he could only do what he, to that point, knew to do....

I relate to what you are saying, I, too, know that I did and said things back then, that I, today, would never do or say but......it's all growth......

I know as you walk through this very difficult time that God will be with you, guiding you every single step of the way - He promises that...

and don't worry - His hand will be upon those remaining in the church and you might be surprised what happens to them as a result of your departure - I have learned that none of us really know what's inside another's heart -

You just keep yourself and your family as your priority right now - I will be praying for you.....

truth

Zoe

11-01-2005, 11:54 AM

Zoe,

Thanks for sharing your story...even though I hate that other people have had to go through the same thing that I did, it does bring me comfort that others have been there and know what it's like. It's interesting that you said that you sensed something was wrong right from the start. My first incident of being abused by our "pastor" occurred just three weeks after we joined the "church"...it was shocking, but we believed that God had led us there (based on a false prophecy), so I just shrugged it off at the time...

I, too, have beat myself up for being so gullible & taking the crap that we took and putting up with it as long as we did. I am learning, slowly, to let go, but it's been a struggle.

Gwen
You're welcome Gwen. Yes, my discomfort actually began with our first visit to the church! Yikes.

jane

11-01-2005, 01:23 PM

We all are responsible for ourselves. We can not contol other peoples' reactions to us or responses. We can not save them.

This sounds meaner than what I mean. When I first left my church, I was so worried about people that were being left behind. I wanted to help them, save them etc...

they were family to me. they were people that I sacrifaced so much for....and believed in....and trusted........

I called one mom, others my sisters............

There is no way that I can make the pain go away, it was real. All I can do is wait for healing.

But, I wouldn't change anything for the world. I would not go back there knowing now what I know. Not on your life.

There is life in my husband's eyes and hope----my children are thriving.

and even today, one phone call from an old member- supportive up to one comment, "well, you know that you do have to be planted and under a church covering but we won't get into that..."
Made ME SO MAD.

Should I be planted in a place where bugs gnaw at my roots and steal my flower buds? Should I be under a covering that tells me I am safe and puts a magnifying glass in position to have the sun's rays burn a hole in my leaf- or a covering that prevents rain from reaching me so that they can get more rain>?

You get my meaning.

In the end, in front of God- It is us alone with Christ. I have to answer for what I have done in him.

That is what helps me endure the pain and rejection here. This side of heaven is much shorter than eternity. They can be pissed as hell at me here.....
but I long to be with my savior.

there will be many who say, " Lord Lord" and surely He will say, I knew them not. Let me not be one of them.

jane