minutia

[Leslie]

My husband's church seems to create an undue boundary between members and nonmembers in little tiny ways. They are admittedly tiny, but taken together, I wonder if they have a purpose.

Non members, even believing spouses of members, are excluded from the prayer chain. They call my husband's work with prayer needs, not home. Non members names (I may be the only one now) are typed in faint font (compared to bold) in the directory. Nonmembers' birthdays are not recognized by the shephards, whereas members' are.

I think the rationale is that they take membership very seriously. Yet, I don't think a "high view of church (membership responsibility)" requires these little tactics. So they would owe to other motives. I've heard members say, "There's nothing the pastors wouldn't do for members." My husband has suggested that the pastors didn't owe me answers to my questions (about how they handled the separation, about other questionable actions toward me) because I am not a member.

There's enough real stuff they do that crosses the line; maybe this minutia is meaningless. I don't know. Any thoughts? Anyone else experience this? (Hope not.)

Leslie

[SpinningHead]

Genesis 2:23-25

The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman'
for she was taken out of man."

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame."

Someone please explain to me where a pastor or church has any business getting in between a husband and a wife!

Someone please explain to me where there is a union/group/gathering/membership more important than the holy union of husband and his wife??

If you really want to start spinning my head, mess w/ my marriage! A few church "ladies" from the church I just left got their hands slapped poking around where they didn't belong! :mad:

[Joseph]

Hi Leslie,

My goodness, I don't remember Jesus having a membership class and I doubt Lepers, prostitutes and tax collectors are going to be welcome in too many churches.
Keep calling it for what it is Leslie, it's not petty at all, that little disrespect might keep a newcomer from saving his soul and we all know what the Bible says about leaders misleading the flock and how harshley they will be dealt with on judgement day.
Good call, Joe

[Jerry]

Dear Leslie,,,
This is not a Church ,,,,,,,,,,,because they have no Love.Anyone using disearnment can see that.Love does not exclude,it embraces,and causes its object to bloom.Anything less than Love,quite simply,isn't Love.
Love Jerry

[Leslie]

You mean I am not "hypersensitive"? :)

~L

[Janice]

My husband's church seems to create an undue boundary between members and nonmembers in little tiny ways. They are admittedly tiny, but taken together, I wonder if they have a purpose.

Non members, even believing spouses of members, are excluded from the prayer chain. They call my husband's work with prayer needs, not home. Non members names (I may be the only one now) are typed in faint font (compared to bold) in the directory. Nonmembers' birthdays are not recognized by the shephards, whereas members' are.

I think the rationale is that they take membership very seriously. Yet, I don't think a "high view of church (membership responsibility)" requires these little tactics. So they would owe to other motives. I've heard members say, "There's nothing the pastors wouldn't do for members." My husband has suggested that the pastors didn't owe me answers to my questions (about how they handled the separation, about other questionable actions toward me) because I am not a member.

There's enough real stuff they do that crosses the line; maybe this minutia is meaningless. I don't know. Any thoughts? Anyone else experience this? (Hope not.)

Leslie

Thoughts? Unfortunatley YES!
At least the non-members are on the role somewhere. My name isn't on the role anywhere.

Hubby is a board member and a deacon. I am treated like a second class citizen because of cigarettes and cannot be a member. ( I can however, volunteer for anything else in the church!) I do NOTHING now. I"ve quit everything. Even choir which I loved the most.

And your hubby's church most DEFINATELY DOES owe you answers! Non-members are still Christians and just like anyone else they have a right to be heard and deserve respect! (or so I'm told.) Non- members are not allowed to speak out or even ask questions at a formal meeting but are allowed to observe".

I really don't know what to think anymore. Maybe they're right and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm not good enough.Maybe I don't really belong. :(

[Carmen]

Hi Leslie,

I agree with Janice. You ARE a part of the Body of Christ. They cannot deny that no matter how narrow they see their membership. Of course unless they are exclusive. The church I got burned at had closed communion, communion only for members or members of sister churches. That basically means that they are rejecting all others as members of the Body of Christ. If they are that narrow minded, it is definitely time to get out of there, member or not.

[Leslie]

Ouch! Carmen--glad you got out of there! Closed communion prohibits nonmembers from that particular means of grace. Rude and wrong. I think I understand how you arrived at your position about the epistles . . . .

Janice, please don't let the glaringly rude practices of that place make you feel there's anything lacking in you. You are actually excluded because of cigarettes? That is so nasty. I hope your husband sees how wrong this is and gets you both out of there. Both on principle and because of how it understandably affects you. That would be "living with (his wife) in an understanding way. "

Thanks for the confirmations, Jerry, Joe, Spinning Head, Janice & Carmen. Yeah, the gestures aren't extreme, but they are disrespectful. Why would I want to be part of an organization that treats nonmembers with disrespect?

[Autumn]

Ok I'm a smoker too. I hope to be able to quit, but not there yet. I too get excluded Shaming is paramount inside and out of church but oh the conversations among us all huddled together in our little group outside.

Thank goodness for all you kind folks here, non-judging.

You know it takes along time to break free of the toxic faith churches. It is a process. It seems to be the same for all. The same song and dance.

Please know you will make it, and you will indeed feel better eventually. Love and prayers, Autumn

[Jerry]

Dear Autumn,,,,
Smoking has nothing to do with your salvation.Does God condone smoking??? Not at all,but having said that,smoking is hardly the unforgivable sin,,,,,,far from it!!!!............."Its not what goes into the mouth that defileth a man ,but what comes out of the mouth that defileth a man,out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speeks"
Love Jerry

[Leslie]

Autumn & Janice,,

"But we have this treasure (Christ) in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves" (2 Cor 4:7)

Perhaps this verse will encourage you that your relationship to cigarettes is not shameful. You have a body, an earthen vessel. Bodies form attachments to certain chemicals. That's a part of having a body. This passage doesn't shame earthen vessels for being earthen, but says that we can glorify God while being in frail bodies.

It is time that certain pockets of the church got their heads out of the sand and learned a little biophysiology and stopped overmoralizing natural phenomena. The only people I remember Christ shaming were religious leaders and people using the temple for sordid gain.

While some things pose risk to the body, nowhere is this attitude of shaming appropriate. We all do many things that are less than optimal for our bodies. Everyday we learn of new dietary and environmental risks. If their problem with cigarettes is based on harmfulness, to be consistent they would have to discipline everyone who engages in any harmful-to-the-body behavior (using pesticides, eating transfat...). If the issue is dependency, they should educate themselves about the complexity of dependence as they scrutinize their habits. Dennis Prager notes that people seem to value health over morality today. Hence, the popular opinion about smoking.

A study on the topic might include 1 Tim 6:17 "...God who richly supplies us with everything to enjoy "