Spiritual Abuse in Reformed Churches

[jmathis]

Hello:

We have recently left a small PCA church that, after much struggle, we determined was cult-like and we were the victims of spiritual abuse, authoritarianism and legalism.

Most of the experiences I've read on the internet are from people who've come out of Charismatic or Pentecostal churches, or independent fundamentalist churches. I would be interested to hear other's experiences in conservative evangelical/reformed churches.

[Emerging]

Hi jmathis, it's nice to meet you but don't we wish it was under better circumstances? sigh ... and sadly yes, you are correct in saying that it seems like soooo many churches are falling to the dark side anymore.

I was in a very conservative church and when I was "in", I didn't notice the abuse because my family of origin was so much worse! But as God began to open my eyes to the truth, I was quickly on the "outs" ... and the cloaked, hidden ... well, does it make sense to say that I was "shunned in plain sight" while everyone said how I was so loved and accepted ... NOT!!

For me most telling of all was when I learned their interpretation of the scriptures well enough ... and realized that all the things they were so actively warning against was exactly what they were doing to anyone they could!

After being away from all churches for a few years now, I no longer dread Sundays, AND I think that just maybe I am finally starting to develop a real understanding of just who God really is.

What's so very very sad is that I had to stop all formal religious education and worship in order to actually find God.

What in particular opened your eyes to what was happening? How long were you involved with them? Have you found a better church? Or do you even attend for the time being?

[Florence]

Welcome jmathis,
I am so sorry to hear that you have been hurt by people who are supposed to be "Jesus with skin on." I, too, am from a reformed church (RCA) and work in an RCA church (I know that sounds confusing, but for more information, you can read my posts "How in the world have I found myself here?" and "The stench in their storehouse" (you might have to change your 'display options' to "last month" to view these.)

Because my first abusive church was an independent fundamentalist church, I can tell you that my conservative/reformed experience has been much more subtle in their abusive practices. Fortunately, I had my former experience to help me identify the signs and had experienced enough healing to be able to say "I will not subject myself to this!"

While I work in a nearby reformed church, I have not "left" the church that "done me wrong." Of course, it's only been a couple of weeks since the "final straw" and I don't think this drama has completely played itself out yet. What I do know is that while I am highly skilled, highly educated, and highly sought after as a music director and worship leader, I was ostrasized because several years ago I refused to work (as a volunteer) with the music director. He was a self-centered pig who hated the church and the people there, was inept at his job, but loved the paycheck (he made $40,000 a year in a very small, rural community). The expectation from the leadership was that I and others take up the slack and do this guy's job for him so that he would be successful. When I finally said, "I'm not going to do this anymore" I was black-balled. I knew that I was labeled for not being a "team player," but unfortunatley, it took several years for me to understand just how merciless the pastor and other leadership can be.

It was only after the music guy left and I applied for a position at the church that I found out that I don't - and never will - measure up. Looking back, I am able to more fully realize - and admit - that much of what makes a person acceptable there is having the right last name, the right house, car, job, income, good looks, and place on the food chain. None of which I have. If I did, I would have been more supported when I expressed my concerns about the music guy. I wouldn't have become the problem for pointing out the problem. I would have been respected and sought after and wined and dined and been wooed into the "inner circle." I would have been in the pastor's "top 100" - he has literally told me that I am not.

The church where I currently work has their own set of difficulties - abusive, yes, but in an opposite sort of way. The people are busy killing one another and the leadership. More than 60 families have left the church in the past four years. I came here to help them "move forward" and to "heal." They said they were broken and ready - but the truth is, they just wanted the community to think things were better. So, they hired a senior pastor, youth director, and me, and we're all getting caught in the cross-fire. And I'm asking, "Lord, are You sure this is where You want me to be?"

Thankfully, because I am a spiritual abuse survivor, I have been able to take what they dish out. Probably a bit more calloused than I should be - but definitely more healthy.

I'm anxious to hear your story - compare notes and all of that. Know that you are in my thoughts and prayers today and I will be watching for you.

Blessings,
Florence

[Jerry]

Abuse is Abuse,,,,,,,,It has many faces but the same results,,,,,,,,,,,,,Blocks of stumbling between YOU and GOD!!!!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,,WELCOME!!!!! Post Some more :D
Love Jerry

[Oopsie Daisey]

Abuse is Abuse,,,,,,,,It has many faces but the same results,,,,,,,,,,,,,Blocks of stumbling between YOU and GOD!!!!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,,WELCOME!!!!! Post Some more :D
Love Jerry


AMEN!

[OldEnt]

Hello:

We have recently left a small PCA church that, after much struggle, we determined was cult-like and we were the victims of spiritual abuse, authoritarianism and legalism.

Most of the experiences I've read on the internet are from people who've come out of Charismatic or Pentecostal churches, or independent fundamentalist churches. I would be interested to hear other's experiences in conservative evangelical/reformed churches.

JM,

Three years ago I left an abusive RB Church of the 1689 LCF variety.... It was a situation where elders were not effectively accountable to the congregation and ran roughshod over the sensibilities of the people of God. They were guilty of contempt of the congregation and the voice of Christ speaking through the concerns of the congregation as a whole. After all those things didn't fit "the program"...

There is a segment in the Reformed churches that have an extremely unhealthy and un-Biblical view of the eldership. In much of the the RB movement this has resulted in people being forced to leave a church they were founding members of while incompetent elders remain in charge. The elders define what the church is instead of the congregation as a whole. The elders are the last court of appeal instead of the congregation as a whole contrary to what Christ commanded in Matthew 18.

I slowly realized these yahoos in that RB church were the "emperors who had no clothes" and the big kahuna from the church in Northern New Jersey who is treated in much of the RB movement like a Protestant "Pope" like wise is an "emperor who has no clothes". :eek:

This particuler "Reformed" movement prides itself on its so called Puritan roots. What in reality happened was that there were men who never got away from their fundamentalist background. They just refined it and made it more subtle and sophiticated and called it being "Reformed". What it really is, is a scholastic pseudo-Puritanism which the Puritans themselves would decry and disown.
And all of this in the name of the "regulative principle" (for then rest of you that is is a a Reformed code word ...)

John Frame in a very excellent on-line article points out that the regulative principle does not really make things as black and white as some in the Reformed camp would like to have it be.

(http://www.reformed.org/misc/frame_regulative_principle.html)

In much of the RB movement, the RB application of the regulative principle became the sine qua non of what defines the principle. In other words, if you don't cross all their "t"'s and dot all their "i"'s, you are not in accord with the "regulative principle"and not fully or really "Reformed".

It scares me how much of a broad section of the RB movement makes the 1689 LBC equal to Scripture, and that in direct violation of the confession itself that clearly states the Bible alone is the authority for settling matters. And I've seen RP's do the same with the Westminster standards.

Bottom line is that many Reformed churches are ripe for abuse. I've especailly seen it in my area of the country where there is a significant Dutch Reformed presence. Legalism of any variety in any kind of church will inevitably lead to abuse.

The Reformed view of the law in regard to the Ten Commandments is another weakness that leads to abuse and was a primary emphasis behind the abuse that took place in my former RB church. I take exception to how the Westminster catechisms handle the Ten Commandments. Proof tests are taken out of context and many of them do not really prove what they are intended to prove. It's a situation that is ripe for Spiritual abuse and I give testimony that it has led to that abuse. Been there... Done that... Got the t-shirt!!!

No you are not alone.... Abuse exists in Reformed churches. It may not be more subtle and sophisticated then the blatant abuse seen in the charismatic/pentecostal groups, but it's there... and probably more wide spread in Reformed circles then we realize.

Sola Deo Gloria,

Old Ent

PS: I very much recommend you read "Transforming Grace" by Jerry Bridges...

[Burke]

I would describe in detail my experience at the reformed church I am attending ,but because I can't spend the time I'd like to right now on that testimony--I wanted to ask just a few questions that relate to this discussion on spiritual "abuse" and the things I have been through with this body.
Do you think that it is ever under any circumstance-- biblical, healthy, or appropriate for the staff or elders of a church to require certain persons or a person to sign a covenant/document stating that he/she will abstain from certain behaviors with the understanding that he/she must leave the church or will be asked to leave the church if the covenant is broken?

Is the signing of a covenant like this with its intended negative consequences ever a legitimate biblical program of sanctification?

Is there any way that the signing of a covenant like this can be seen as a "means of grace" to help someone out of a life of sin?

What personal and biblical concerns would you have if you were a part of a ministry for 18-29 year olds where there was a "rule" or "required request" that there be no social drinking at all with others that are a part of that group---that is not just for leadership, but for those who desire to attend the services?

How do you embrace leadership that you know loves God and the Word and the flock ,but has put these things into place in the name of wisdom and love?

Someone help me out here who is not too embittered by past experiences--I need some insight and some balance.

[yeshua'smags]

I don't know what biblical basis this has, but I kind of think it is setting people up to fall. Jesus doesn't make us sign a "don't be bad" covenant, why should a church?:confused:
Did you say the leadership does not have to sign it? Cuz that is a dangerous double standard.

If all of this is making alarms go off in your head and isn't sitting well with you, then you need to get the hell out of there! Those little voices are there for a reason.;)


Hope this helps, and welcome!

[Jerry]

Do you think that it is ever under any circumstance-- biblical, healthy, or appropriate for the staff or elders of a church to require certain persons or a person to sign a covenant/document stating that he/she will abstain from certain behaviors with the understanding that he/she must leave the church or will be asked to leave the church if the covenant is broken?

Is the signing of a covenant like this with its intended negative consequences ever a legitimate biblical program of sanctification?

Is there any way that the signing of a covenant like this can be seen as a "means of grace" to help someone out of a life of sin?

What personal and biblical concerns would you have if you were a part of a ministry for 18-29 year olds where there was a "rule" or "required request" that there be no social drinking at all with others that are a part of that group---that is not just for leadership, but for those who desire to attend the services?

How do you embrace leadership that you know loves God and the Word and the flock ,but has put these things into place in the name of wisdom and love?

Someone help me out here who is not too embittered by past experiences--I need some insight and some balance.

Did Christ ever require anyone to sign anything ???????? The first Miricle that Christ performed was to supply Wine at a party .........There is a big difference between "Knocking Back a Few" with friends,,,,,,and getting "Blind Drunk".................You can't embrace Christian Leadership,that clearly doesn't like Christians,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,selah ;)
Love Jerry
P.S. Selah= Hebrew for (Think about it) :D

[mary]

Hello:

We have recently left a small PCA church that, after much struggle, we determined was cult-like and we were the victims of spiritual abuse, authoritarianism and legalism.

Most of the experiences I've read on the internet are from people who've come out of Charismatic or Pentecostal churches, or independent fundamentalist churches. I would be interested to hear other's experiences in conservative evangelical/reformed churches.


Dear JMathis,

Welcome here... You are among friends.

I don't have the time to go into the details right now, but the church I was badly abused in was a very Reformed, allegedly 5-point church.

I know that most of those here were abused in Pentecostal, charismatic or otherwise non-Reformed churches.

When I tried to get help from an elder and from another minister in the presbytery whom I thought was my friend, I was coldly and cruelly rebuffed. I was told that the abuse "couldn't have happened." Most of it consisted of crude, severe, sexual harassment by "pastor."

I'm still having a hard time - but sometime, I'd like to go into the hierarchical details of how Reformed churches supposedly deal with things like this. At bottom: they don't.

mary

[Burke]

Hey JMathis,

It sounds like you have experienced some of the same things I am going through currently. I am a part of a highly respected conservative evangelical church among reformed camps---I have had similiar stuggles, but have yet to leave the church. I have had real long-term experiences and stuggled to conclude if our church was cult-like, hyper-shepherding oriented, dictatorial, and legalistic:eek: I am interested to know what led you to conclude that those things were true of the church you ending up leaving. I have already posted some of my experiences, but I have many more that might relate to yours. I think the hardest thing for me is trusting my own inclinations to believe that this could even be partly true about my church---instead of my own selfish consumeristic mentality that is causing me to be overly concerned or critical of the ministry. You know---I struggle with the maybe I should just submit mentality. So what was it that led you to conclude that you were victimized by legalism, spiritual abuse, and authoritarianism?

[yeshua'smags]

Oh man I hate to tell you this but this post is like a year old. I've been on since March and I've not heard from a jmathis....but those of us who are still on will be happy to listen! :)

[Reg]

snip

Do you think that it is ever under any circumstance-- biblical, healthy, or appropriate for the staff or elders of a church to require certain persons or a person to sign a covenant/document stating that he/she will abstain from certain behaviors with the understanding that he/she must leave the church or will be asked to leave the church if the covenant is broken?

Is the signing of a covenant like this with its intended negative consequences ever a legitimate biblical program of sanctification?

Is there any way that the signing of a covenant like this can be seen as a "means of grace" to help someone out of a life of sin?

What personal and biblical concerns would you have if you were a part of a ministry for 18-29 year olds where there was a "rule" or "required request" that there be no social drinking at all with others that are a part of that group---that is not just for leadership, but for those who desire to attend the services?

How do you embrace leadership that you know loves God and the Word and the flock ,but has put these things into place in the name of wisdom and love?

Someone help me out here who is not too embittered by past experiences--I need some insight and some balance.
Welcome to the group Burke.

One question.

Does this ministry anything to do with Celebrate Recovery?

[DiligentLily]

How do you embrace leadership that you know loves God and the Word and the flock ,but has put these things into place in the name of wisdom and love?

Someone help me out here who is not too embittered by past experiences--I need some insight and some balance.

Burke, welcome! And as the one who resurrected this old post, I think you should be the official owner of the thread!

I am so happy you brought this one back to life, because I never would have found it myself, and I am delighted to make your acquaintance. I, too, am from a reformed church, a very small, 5-point, regulative principal, proud of their distinctives denomination. I think that the temptation to abuse in our tradition comes from a different place than it does for our friends here from the more fundamentalist traditions. Our temptation is legalism, since we make such an emphasis of doctrines, creeds, distinctives and theology.

I, too, was mis-treated (abused) by people who I cannot call bad people. They are godly in most other respects, and so I was blind-sided by their abuse and have suffered from it for 12 years now. I am new to this forum but it has been a very big part of my recovery.

My quick take of your situation is, that it is no way at all appropriate for your leaders to make such a requirement of you. It smacks of legalism, but worse, it is pharisseeism. We must IN NO WAY ADD to the commandments of scripture. The Pharisees added commandments upon commandments and they were not praised for it by our Lord (understatement of the year!) You have been given liberty in Christ, and your liberty is not mere licence, it is a holy trust and joyful gift. If you were to allow these folks, godly though they be, to bind your conscience, even take the place of your conscience, you would be abdicating your responsibility to judge for yourself what is right. You must not let them stand between you and your conscience. The bible and the Holy Spirit are your guides. They have, in my opinion, far exceeded their authority. Grant you, because of what I went through, my opinions about church authority have changed quite a bit, but I think for the better.

It would also be a disservice to your leaders to allow them to succeed in exceeding their authority. They need to see a man of conscience stand on his own feet, so they don't get an exaggerated sense of their own power. They may be good people otherwise, but it looks like they may have very sadly fallen prey to a lust for power over other mens' lives. It is very sad for them. Our legalism tends to tempt people in that direction, and I am as sorry for my own errors in that direction as can be.

Please continue to post and tell us more about your situation. I have a lot to figure out about these things, and this brief discussion with you and others from our tradition has already really gotten my wheels spinning. I know we can learn a lot together.

[DiligentLily]

Burke, something else that may help you: Reg recently posted an answer in another thread, about the definition of spiritual abuse here. (http://www.christianrecovery.com/vb/showpost.php?p=40888&postcount=3) It is very timely. You will feel that these items resonate to a certain degree with your group, but you will also feel at first that the definition is too extreme to be applied to your group. I felt the same when I first began reading about spiritual abuse, but look closer. It really is there.

In your situation, I think #2 "Impossibly high legalistic standards of thought and behavior may be imposed on the members" and #4 "Thus, in abusive religions all blessings come through performance of spiritual requirements. Failure is strongly condemned so there is only one alternative, perfection" in particular may fit.

[Burke]

Hey Reg,

This church doesn't have anything to do with celebrate recovery programs. It actually has a very strong emphasis on nouthetic couseling. Many of the pastors are either certified or on the board of "NANC" (National Association of Nouthetic Counselors)---which I fully support and appreciate. But, I am personally not as conservative as they are when it comes to rejecting other methods-- either of ministry or counseling--just as long as it is biblical--which is obviously the debate. Not too long ago I was a little more emotionally involved in trying to figure out if how I was being treated was "abusive". I knew that it was some form of backdoor legalism (signing a covenant)--(if you want specifics I will be glad to provide those) but thought that in my situation perhaps I should trust my elders and submit to them. Still I stuggle with fully concluding that my issues with their counsel doesn't have more to do with me than with their legitimate biblical error. I have mentioned my concerns to one pastor but It seems that they are somewhat discarded and turned around to be just my self-centeredness. I have concluded that in order for them to justify the covenant signing and the extrabiblical rules for drinking in our young adults ministry-- they have to employ some kind of semantic and even biblical gymnastics--
Well, I will be working on a letter/paper addressing the drinking rule created for our young adult ministry---I think that will stir some discussion among our small flock of young people and the pastors and may even lead them to do away with the rule. Or, I may end being asked to leave the ministry, but I know it is the right thing to do. Pray for me---that I would be prayed up, humble, gentle, knowledgeably zealous, pure in intent, and wise in my approach.

[Reg]

Hi Burke,

First of all, what is a Nouthetic Counselor?

And yes, prayers are sent. You know and I'm sure they know that signing some sort of covenant cannot be Biblically supported.

However, in an administrative sense it can be when dealing with unbelievers.
ei, we have signs of NO SMOKING at our church. This also includes, no driniking, although we don't post signs for that. It is well understood by all.

As a Christian, our word is all we need do. Let our yes be yes and our no, no.

Matthew 5:37 (NIV)
37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

This is also my prayer for you.

Colossians 1:9
For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding.

Here are some other verses where to get the right kind of wisdom.

James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

Godly Wisdom

James 3:17
But the wisdom that comes from above is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.

[Carmen]

Is there any way that the signing of a covenant like this can be seen as a "means of grace" to help someone out of a life of sin?

I agree with Jerry. Jesus never made anyone sign a covenant to be born again and join his Church. I wouldn't sign anything. I would, however, not knowingly serve alcohol to an alcoholic. It may be they want the covenant to keep others from doing that because an (ex)alcoholic is in the group and he is too embarrassed to tell others honestly about his problem. If that is the case, then the others can only help him if they know he has a problem. Forbidding alcohol for everyone in a certain age group is too drastic a solution in my opinion.

Also, I think it stupid that I would have to appease their human weakness for written and signed covenants, when they choose to constrain others. I see paper covenants involving the signature of creeds and behavior muzzles as a weakness - Jesus included me in his covenant when I believed. I need no other. In a work situation though, I'd require a written contract as with any other employer/employee relationship, Christians are sometimes no less devious than non-Christians when the problem revolves around money (or power).

What will happen to those that don't sign the covenant? Will they be told to stay away from the others in their age group? Will they be told to repent? Will they be told to leave the church? Would they be shunned? I think that a punishment for not signing would not be justified no matter how hard they try to twist the "unity" and "obedience" bible verses, which makes the covenant's value = 0.

I have mentioned my concerns to one pastor but It seems that they are somewhat discarded and turned around to be just my self-centeredness. I have concluded that in order for them to justify the covenant signing and the extrabiblical rules for drinking in our young adults ministry-- they have to employ some kind of semantic and even biblical gymnastics--
Well, I will be working on a letter/paper addressing the drinking rule created for our young adult ministry---I think that will stir some discussion among our small flock of young people and the pastors and may even lead them to do away with the rule. Or, I may end being asked to leave the ministry, but I know it is the right thing to do. Pray for me---that I would be prayed up, humble, gentle, knowledgeably zealous, pure in intent, and wise in my approach.

Be careful with the letter. If they have already called your opinions self-centered, the letter may put you up for more of the same - or worse. :eek:

I was spiritually abused in a Reformed church, the second reply to my letter (from the pastor and probably unknown to the church members) was more scathing than anything I had ever encountered up to that time. Go see my SA page, a link to the testimony is there, not too far from the top. http://www.jamesfive19.com/Spiritual_Abuse_Links_Resources.html My letter was not as wise and polite etc., etc. as it perhaps should have been, but the results showed what I was really dealing with, my instinct was not off. Needless to say I am still probably expected to "submit" to the pastor's authority should I ever decide to go back to that church. But that second letter and the fact that he still hasn't even acknowledged that what he wrote was in any way inappropriate or damaging are two big reasons why I don't trust his judgement in spiritual and temporal matters. He has not contacted me for two years now. That, for me, reveals a certain character trait that just doesn't fit to someone in such a position.

Don't be surprised if you get blugeoned. I'll pray that all goes well for you, and that they realize that they are laying burdens on the congregation, like some that Jesus did not approve of.

[ex-shep]

PCA can be a mixed bag. I have heard of complaints of shepherding. So your story is not unusual. As Jerry said, any church can be abusive. I have been in abusive Methodist, Presbyterian, pentecostal, and fundalmentalist groups.

(Old Ent, long time no hear. Good to see you checking in.)

[Dory]

Let me try to bring a balanced response to this. I agree with others here that a prohibition against alcohol is misguided and unscriptural. That being said, however, the belief that the Bible forbids alcohol is firmly entrenched in many Christian circles and many people have had terrible experiences with abusive drunks, so they feel strongly about it.

And again, I think requiring a signed covenant on behavior issues of any kind is extra-biblical, however, I know it is a common practice in some churches.

So does this mean this church is cultish/controlling? Maybe, but maybe not. Maybe the folks are sincerely misguided on their understanding of church government. But I would take it as a warning sign at any rate. I would worry about an improper emphasis on works at the expense of grace. I would worry about too much concern about apprearances rather than real issues of the hearts of the people.

For what it's worth, my two main warning signs of a controlling person are these: flattery and the pity play. This kind of person uses both subtle and overt flattery (love bombing) to make people feel special and draw them in. They also tell stories, relate events and histories that are designed to make you feel sorry for them, see them as a victim, the hero, and the like. They work real hard to impress you early on with these things. Most controlling churches are being steered by one or more of this kind of person.

[Jerry]

Let me try to bring a balanced response to this. I agree with others here that a prohibition against alcohol is misguided and unscriptural. That being said, however, the belief that the Bible forbids alcohol is firmly entrenched in many Christian circles and many people have had terrible experiences with abusive drunks, so they feel strongly about it.

And again, I think requiring a signed covenant on behavior issues of any kind is extra-biblical, however, I know it is a common practice in some churches.

So does this mean this church is cultish/controlling? Maybe, but maybe not. Maybe the folks are sincerely misguided on their understanding of church government. But I would take it as a warning sign at any rate. I would worry about an improper emphasis on works at the expense of grace. I would worry about too much concern about apprearances rather than real issues of the hearts of the people.

For what it's worth, my two main warning signs of a controlling person are these: flattery and the pity play. This kind of person uses both subtle and overt flattery (love bombing) to make people feel special and draw them in. They also tell stories, relate events and histories that are designed to make you feel sorry for them, see them as a victim, the hero, and the like. They work real hard to impress you early on with these things. Most controlling churches are being steered by one or more of this kind of person.

Dear Dory,,,,
I think this is a very good take on this subject.....It is in Gods heart for us to celebrate,,,,,,,"Having a few" is part of that ;) ,,,,But God also expects us to have "Common Sense",,,,,,and getting staggering drunk,,,,,isn't "Common Sense"

Love Jerry