some random musings

[profnachos]

I used to think that the conservative evangelical brand of Christianity was the "best" out there and that it was the only one that really got things right. Why? After all, we honor the Scriptures as the living Word of God more than any out there, and that we have a clear cut "formula" as to how one can cross the bridge from being "unsaved" to "saved."

You know the four spiritual laws.

Now after nearly 25 years as a professed Christian, virtually all of my beliefs save the death and resurrection of Jesus are on the table. I no longer believe that the evangelical brand of Christianity is better than others. The only reason why I occasionally attend an evangelical church is because that is the only thing I know and am familiar with. Not in the mood of shopping around in search of something better.

"By their fruits you shall know them." That keeps bugging me. Really what fruits do we have show for? I have met too many non Christians who are put off by us. We divorce as much. The most well known trademark we have is our political activism. I doubt any rational person can defend our "fruits."

Yeah, I've seen those bumper stickers. Christians are not perfect, but forgiven. If you find the perfect church, and join it, it will become imperfect. But by the end of the day, we gotta have something to show for.

We pride ourselves in getting our theology right, but then again, who doesn't?

I may start looking outside the evangelical wing of Christianity. Can't really figure out what I am looking for though.

As to evangelical Christians, the very first remedy which will elevate us to a whole new level is - we ought to STFU.

I've done that primarily because I can't see too many "fruits" in my life, and ironically I get a lot of compliments from non-Christians. Not a difficult thing to do, but strangely, ever since I've started implementing the STFU policy, more and more non Christians have asked me about the faith. Very strange.

[jane]

what is STFU?

SCRIPTURE WARNING**********


Regarding "you'll know them by the fruits." I too was concerned by the very dilema that you speak about. Then I discovered this passage in the song of solomon.

7 Tell me, you whom I love, where you graze your flock
and where you rest your sheep at midday.
Why should I be like a veiled woman
beside the flocks of your friends?

Friends
8 If you do not know, most beautiful of women,
follow the tracks of the sheep
and graze your young goats
by the tents of the shepherds.


She says to Jesus ; where do you let your flock Jesus's people, right? we are the sheep. graze and rest......

The answer is to follow the tracks of the sheep....by the tents of the shepherds.


Stay with me David.
You know my people by the fruit that they bare.... I have to look up another scriputer and don't know how with out loosing this post so it will be in parts.
jane :eek:

[jane]

Prof Nachos,

I am having computer difficulty....


Read all of galations.... pay attention to a few thoughts...

One, that the church was trying to teach a different gospel than the one that saved you.

Two, a little bit a leaven .....


Three, the fruits of the spirit..

add this to my last thought about Song of Solomon AND


To the tares amongst the wheat parable (that His seed would grow next to weeds but that they would not be pulled until the harvest was ready. Not knowing the difference until fruition.) that Jesus taught and PRESTO!

My thoughts on what your post is about.

I do not believe any more that it is better to worship at a church because there is NO perfect church. There may not be a perfect church but their is evidence of FRUIT in God's people (and galations list that fruit) and I am not going to waste time with weeds that are going to be cast in the fire....

Their bad fruit will be yeast amongst my beliefs...and I will soon be believing (AGAIN) fasle doctrines.

It is also interesting to read in the begining of Galations that their teachings is to "bring them to themselves".

I followed that exactly; worshipping leadership, giving them my devotions, my time and my money. I am guilty.

anyway, a few of my musings to add to yours.

Been at the beach and I am loving it :) you? I am fast becoming brown skinned!

jane

[Jerry]

Matt 10 verse 42 ;)
Love Jerry

[jane]

Can't really figure out what I am looking for though.


I don't know what to look for or what I believe any more either.

For me, it comes down to the cross. That is it. Jesus. Nothing else, no one else, just Jesus.

All the gifts, prophecies, docterines, ministries, christianese, bumper stickers, bible classes, angels, great christian speakers, authors, movies, stickers, bibles, etc....
are all up for redefinition:

my hope is that Jesus will guide me as I need to be towards the work that He has begun in me.

That is all that I can stand for today.

jane

[InTheory]

Matt 10 verse 42 ;)
Love Jerry

Right on, Jerry-my faith has filtered down to the simple truth of showing love for God by loving my neighbor-without ulterior motives (i.e. evangelism) or expectation-simple, practical love.

-Dan

[Autumn]

:) hi again,

It is hard to untangle what has been so tangled., (me speaking to me.)
The fruits thing had me boggled for so many years.

For me in this moment of time, I believe, fruits are evidences of the inner transformations, wrought inside of us. Example, I know It is impossible for me to do something, so I admit, I cannot do this thing, so I ask for God to do this thing in me, and he does it very slowly over time, like an apple growing on a tree. I am very process oriented these days. He does the pruning, that hurts alot. thus the need for satire. Yet the pruning makes the growth more visible to us, who watch this process, in all plant life tht grows. btw, I am an avid gardner.
I will never see any fruits, I think, I am blissfully, and most painfully unaware. No striving will accomplish this I have learned, as far as it concerns me in my own life.

or this way, I use to have this wonderful glorious false golden image and I was so pride and arrogant of the fruits I produced for God. Not!!!!!! fooled myself. Was pretty tired and exhausted too, even had a stress breakdown., for all of my efforts to show some fruit, the only fruit I can show is what I pick off of a tree.

then after all of me crashed and burned, thank goodness, I learned that I can't do anything for god, and I can't do anything against him. I can only do things for or against others. God gives everything. Like the lily that grows, the "image" god creates in His time and way... grows,( process). The lily cannot say I made my self look so good, the lily can only grow and the beauty is revealed, or it turns out to be a thistle, which hurts to touch it. the thistle has fruits too.

The lily keeps growing and it produces seeds, but only god can make it grow . the lily is blissfully unaware of all of this. Does the lily hurt while it grows? I can't ask it and find out.

And Jesus is the only one I know who can tell a fig tree may you never bear fruit again. all this focus on fruits, and works all tangled up together. It has taken me so many years to discover this one for me.

Mabe it is different for each one of us, as we are all originals.
God is the potter and we are the clay imo.

If this is not any good for you please toss it in the compost heap. Its good for the plants and the worms like it too. Autumn