A possible book for you, "profnachos"...

[Theodora]

Hi...

NO idea whether this might be something that might interest you or be of help, but I was doing some reading in an old issue of Theology Today yesterday and came on a review of Peter C. Phan's book Christianity with an Asian Face: Asian American Theology in the Making. (Maryknoll, Orbis, 2003) and thought of you.

From the Jan. 2004 issue of this journal, p. 592--

Asian theologies began to develop in the 1970's and 1980's. Among other stimuli, the decolonization of Asia, nationalization of churches, formation of national seminaries, Christianity's rapid growth in Asia, and the genesis of ecumenical projects based in Asia have provided the fertile context for Asian theologies. And now, with the sudden increase of Asians in North America (over 320,000 Asian students in the U.S. in 2003), we have found that Asian Christians speaking English are beginning to write theology from their unique situation. Peter Phan, with the publication of this volume, will become the pioneer voice in this new theological movement.

The reviewer, Scott W. Sunquist of Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, goes on to say--

Phan, a Vietnamese immigrant and professor and chair of Catholic social thought at Gerogetown University, was first known to me as an Asian church historian...

FWIW, I was impressed with Phan's demeanor and commentary as expert spokesperson on TV, responding to Pope John Paul II's death and the speculation about the direction the Roman Catholic church would take under new leadership.

NO idea whether anything here would be of help to you in your search for understanding and better acceptance, but, at the very least, it might give you a start for further articulation of your own experience and thoughts.

Grace and peace to you and yours this day.

Theodora

--

[profnachos]

I appreciate the suggestion, but based on what I've seen, it seems to be very much in line with what I absolutely detest.

America is already balkanized along ethnic and cultural lines, and the so-called melting pot has become a boiling pot, but I see Christians from all ethnic groups only doing more to promote de facto segregation when we should be tearing down barriers and show to the world what Christ can do.

My Korean friends now worship in "Korean American" churches after feeling alienated from predominantly white churches as well as Korean ones. So the journey to looks like this

- "White" church: not Korean enough, so they left
- Korean church: not American enough, so they left
- Some Korean American church: Not in the same economic class, so they left

They might as well stare at themselves all day in the mirror instead of attending church if their objective is to find people who are so like them in every possible aspect. I think it is the ultimate expression of narccisism, but they are doing it in the name of Jesus.

If the idea is for me to retreat to my own ethnic subculture in search of acceptance, then it is not the kind of acceptance that is worthy of my pursuit. I can't get excited about getting accepted only because I look like them. Besides, as far as "Asian American" Christianity is concerned, been there, done that.

[jane]

When I first started working in social work, I work in the worst sections of the inner city areas of Hartford. We had on staff, two peurto rican men, four african american women and me, the white girl...hehehe.

I learned a lot working in this team of professionals. We used to joke (half of us were christian) that the greatest day of segregation was on Sunday.....

You could see each church clear out--- the peurto ricans were together, the polish catholic were in another church, the irish catholic in another, the italians in even another--- the black baptist churches were rocking with the spirit but the white conservative ones were not believing in the gifts, the vietnamese off to their own church-- you get the idea.

the only church that I saw an honest mixture was the seventh day adventist and I have always been told that they are a cult- who really knows?

Anyway, it is REALLY sad on one hand but on another I think we all as humans tend to gravitate towards the familiar. It takes some serious thinking to get us out of our own shells- not just racially but in a lot of different ways.

I like the philosophy of embrassing our different cultures to share with each other- knowing what those differences are enough to enjoy the positives (LIKE THE FOOD) and yet being one bride in Christ.

Want to hear one of my pet peives on cultural diversity? It isn't a popular view so blast me if you need to.

There is no one white race. All of us who are white are lumped into one catagory. There are some MAJOR differences between cultures in the white groups. My english/ irish heritage is VERY different from my friends who are canadian french, italian, polish, german, russian etc. Somehow we all became one group and often these groups don't even get along with each other! (ex, the irish catholics and protestants).

My other pet peive? When those slave boats were retired- those horrible conditions and tight corridors- well, those very boats were used to bring some of my irish relatives here to Ellis island- to come here as LEGAL indentured servants. Somehow the debt never got paid off and some of those people were the same as slaves....

like I said, just my thoughts, maybe not politically correct but mine.

Prof, I too, am leary on titles geared towards a race. How many of us are just like our contemporaries anyway??????

jane

[profnachos]

One thing I've noticed is there is a correlation between a group's willingness to integrate and the importance of its mission.

One classic example is the military which integrated before the civil rights era. When bullets from the enemy are flying, you couldn't care less about the skin color of the person who is right next to you when your life is hanging in the balance. My friend who is Japanese spent 4 years in the Marines and he tells me about how color blind they are. When you are in a Marine uniform, you are a Marine, period.

And the other side of the spectrum are social circles. The "mission" is not all that critical other than having a good time, and people can afford to gravitate towards the familiar as you put it. Bullets aren't flying, but booze is. Find the prettiest people in the crowd and hang out with them. That is how you work your way up the social hierarchy. Try to do the same while fighting the insurgents in Baghdad and you will be dead before you know it.

So what does that have to say about the church of Jesus Christ. We act a lot more like social circles than the military. Supposedly we are to be mindful of "fiery darts" from the Enemy coming from all directions, but my God, we gotta sit right next to people who look like us when we worship the King of Kings.

As to retreating to my subculture (Korean American, in this case) in search of acceptance, doesn't the term "acceptance" imply people accepting you despite many differences.

If Korean people "accept" me because I am Korean too, then they are doing what comes to them naturally, which is what most people do, so let's not cheapen the word "acceptance" by applying it to them here. Now if they were more accepting to black people after the 1992 Los Angeles riots in the ashes of their stores, now that, my friends, is ACCEPTANCE.

I agree with you on the classification of race. It is just silly and stupid. And thanks for the history lesson on the slave boats. I didn't know that.

When I first started working in social work, I work in the worst sections of the inner city areas of Hartford. We had on staff, two peurto rican men, four african american women and me, the white girl...hehehe.

I learned a lot working in this team of professionals. We used to joke (half of us were christian) that the greatest day of segregation was on Sunday.....

You could see each church clear out--- the peurto ricans were together, the polish catholic were in another church, the irish catholic in another, the italians in even another--- the black baptist churches were rocking with the spirit but the white conservative ones were not believing in the gifts, the vietnamese off to their own church-- you get the idea.

the only church that I saw an honest mixture was the seventh day adventist and I have always been told that they are a cult- who really knows?

Anyway, it is REALLY sad on one hand but on another I think we all as humans tend to gravitate towards the familiar. It takes some serious thinking to get us out of our own shells- not just racially but in a lot of different ways.

I like the philosophy of embrassing our different cultures to share with each other- knowing what those differences are enough to enjoy the positives (LIKE THE FOOD) and yet being one bride in Christ.

Want to hear one of my pet peives on cultural diversity? It isn't a popular view so blast me if you need to.

There is no one white race. All of us who are white are lumped into one catagory. There are some MAJOR differences between cultures in the white groups. My english/ irish heritage is VERY different from my friends who are canadian french, italian, polish, german, russian etc. Somehow we all became one group and often these groups don't even get along with each other! (ex, the irish catholics and protestants).

My other pet peive? When those slave boats were retired- those horrible conditions and tight corridors- well, those very boats were used to bring some of my irish relatives here to Ellis island- to come here as LEGAL indentured servants. Somehow the debt never got paid off and some of those people were the same as slaves....

like I said, just my thoughts, maybe not politically correct but mine.

Prof, I too, am leary on titles geared towards a race. How many of us are just like our contemporaries anyway??????

jane

[jane]

So what does that have to say about the church of Jesus Christ. We act a lot more like social circles than the military



sounds to me like you have an awesome new topic for another writing. There is a mouthful in this one sentence.

jane

[jane]

As to retreating to my subculture (Korean American, in this case) in search of acceptance, doesn't the term "acceptance" imply people accepting you despite many differences.

and I bow to you on this one! If it were a chess match you could say "check".

Ironic how we in search of acceptance gravitate towards the familiar which defeats the purpose of universal acceptance.

should we blame it once again on the human condition or simple stupidity?

jane

[jane]

another little tidbit about indentured servanthood- it still goes on.

My husband's father was in the labor camps of Poland outside Dackow (spelling is wrong but I can't find him for him to tell me how to spell it).

When the allied troops freed him, he came to America (post WWII) as an indentured servant to another Polish man who had been here prior to WWI. He went to work for him on his farm in Pennsylvannia in turn for the payment of transportation to America. The conditions were deplorable, wages were non existant and the debt was never going to be paid off. He ran away in the night to Connecticut and blended in quietly with the polish community.

I have a jamacian friend who did the same thing in around 1993 but to a rich couple in New York City to be a nanny for (get this) 1.75 an hour!!!!!!!!! She stayed with it long enough to finish college on a scholarship. Now she is doing well but can you imagine anyone being paid under $2 an hour for being a nanny!!!

And another friend who is chinese- same thing to the chinese restaurant in town. Where NONE of the relatives are paid and work under the table or in secret for food and rent. The rent is a one bedroom apartment on Main street filled with about 30 people and the food is rice....or noodles.... !!!!

jane :eek:

[profnachos]

Wow, a rapid succession of three replies! Are you like this in person too, Jane? :D

Thanks for the stories about indentured servanthood. A lot of that goes on with illegal aliens in Southern California. It is really sad...